Gaun Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 So SWTOR is out, obviously this forum is full of people who are dropping their 2cents on why this game is such a fail etc. Why do they care to? Are they trying to be industry experts? All going out from the notion of the "Wow-killer", is this what all this is about? Or did they just not see this coming? Did they really think this game would be any different, from all the information and media BioWare put out there prior to the game release? Or are they just disappointed, were they really silly enough to expect something more? Is it not obvious and logical that this would be BioWare's take on an MMO ? From KOTOR to Dragon Age, to Mass Effect to this.. SWTOR!!! Gameplay is similar to dragon age/kotor/wow, there are companions, like in DA/KOTOR.. You get a spaceship and roam the galaxy like in Mass Effect, The galaxy map is even reminiscent of the ME one. Dialogue wheel, choices, story, classic bioware.. wrapped around it a casual familiar MMO, big surprise? Read the press release from 2008.. http://www.swtor.com/news/press-release/20081021_001 I don't see it saying they are making a "2nd-generation mmo", or "revolutionizing" combat.. Or bringing that "sandbox feel" back or.. or.. or.. Seriously guys, I don't understand half of the whine on these forums, did you not do ANY research on this game before you went out and bought it? SWTOR certainly has it's faults for me, but for the most part it is purely the technical one (horrid fps in 10+ player scenarios).. Hell yes, I would have loved a "3rd-generation MMO with a big seamless world and a player oriented economy with the sandbox feel at the same time delivering content wow style etc etc WITH story and awesome quest design and perhaps even Revolutionizing combat.." My point is, it was pretty clear in 2008 that THIS was not the game(droid) you were looking for.. So keep posting your "this game is bad becus..." threads.. I am sure there are many like me who just sit back and shake our heads and wonder how people can be so blind... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerrusPA Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 People "whine" because they want the game to be good. A forum full of whiners is still better than a forum full of yay-sayers or a dead forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaun Posted February 4, 2012 Author Share Posted February 4, 2012 You didn't read my post I think.. The point is it's kind of silly to whine about something that's already done, made.. Released.. It's like if I went to a fruitdealer and wanted a apple, and he showed me an orange and told me it's not an apple, and then I convinced myself that maybe it will taste like an apple after all it's still fruit.. Then went home and found it to my duuurrh big surprise that it didn't taste like an apple.. Then going back to the fruitdealer telling him his oranges suck cus they dont taste like apples... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
face_hindu Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 So SWTOR is out, obviously this forum is full of people who are dropping their 2cents on why this game is such a fail etc. Why do they care to? Are they trying to be industry experts? All going out from the notion of the "Wow-killer", is this what all this is about? ... So keep posting your "this game is bad becus..." threads.. I am sure there are many like me who just sit back and shake our heads and wonder how people can be so blind... People care because they are passionate about the game and had their own vision of what it would be like. It's like when you see a movie adaptation of a beloved novel or story. Sometimes the movie so deviates from your conception of the "universe" or "feel" of the story, that people get personally offended. However, this is not a movie, this is an MMO, and we all have a part in making it even better, going forward. How you choose to go about it is up to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiachsidhe Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 People "whine" because they want the game to be good. A forum full of whiners is still better than a forum full of yay-sayers or a dead forum. Wrong. People post constructive criticism, because they want the game to be good. People sit on the forums pronouncing this game dead, or a failure (sorry a "fail"), to see their own words and to make people who disagree angry, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gohlar Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 You didn't read my post I think.. The point is it's kind of silly to whine about something that's already done, made.. Released.. New to mmos? Feedback is vital. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyDale Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 You didn't read my post I think.. The point is it's kind of silly to whine about something that's already done, made.. Released.. ... Why is it silly? They are pointing out what they don't like about the game so Bio Ware can hopefully improve upon them. Makes perfect sense to me. In fact, it's the entire purpose of a forum, and why they exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerrusPA Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Some people like to cling to the irrational hope of changing fundamental design decisions I guess. Also if you wanted an apple and got an orange it's still the dealers fault. At least to a degree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaun Posted February 4, 2012 Author Share Posted February 4, 2012 New to mmos? Feedback is vital. Yes feedback is good, but some of the feedback require total game redesign, if you are not new to mmo's you know this kind of feedback is useless.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traumahawk Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 (edited) Because we have "passion". A trait that used to be lauded and admired, but is now relegated to the taboo netherworld with "hate speech" and "vitriol". We've also lost the ability to reason and have a well thought-out debate. Therefore, no matter how civil I may be with my suggestions or complaints, it's always drowned out by the background noise of genuinely ignorant posters. Why "passion"? Because I want this game to be great and I want to convince others to demand the same. To break from the stupor they may be feeling, and realize that without a unified community, nothing will change. It's not about trying to make people hate the game, it's trying to persuade them to give a nod to my platform. If they don't agree, so be it, but that's why we spend the time to create posts--to persuade through logic and evidence. Edited February 4, 2012 by Traumahawk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerrusPA Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Wrong. People post constructive criticism, because they want the game to be good. People sit on the forums pronouncing this game dead, or a failure (sorry a "fail"), to see their own words and to make people who disagree angry, Look, no. "Constructive criticism" is a stupid overused buzzword. Please look up how the term is used in a company environment or in regards to employer <-> employee relations. Demanding only "constructive" criticism is a way of making yourself immune to all criticism since you yourself can decide whether or not it's worthwhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traumahawk Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Look, no. "Constructive criticism" is a stupid overused buzzword. Please look up how the term is used in a company environment or in regards to employer <-> employee relations. Demanding only "constructive" criticism is a way of making yourself immune to all criticism since you yourself can decide whether or not it's worthwhile. I'm all for free speech as long as you are saying what I want to hear and it supports my view. Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaun Posted February 4, 2012 Author Share Posted February 4, 2012 Why is it silly? They are pointing out what they don't like about the game so Bio Ware can hopefully improve upon them. Makes perfect sense to me. In fact, it's the entire purpose of a forum, and why they exist. I am not exactly talking about useful constructive feedback, using the suggestions box etc... Most of these threads are just angry drama threads, with, as someone said above, nothing but a text written so some dude could vent his frustration/anger.. Hey I have a lot of suggestions etc. for the game, the best way to go about them is NOT to post some silly adolescent angry thread in general discussion, but to actually use the suggestion box... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonQuitto Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Because we have "passion". A trait that used to be lauded and admired, but is now relegated to the taboo netherworld with "hate speech" and "vitriol". We've also lost the ability to reason and have a well thought-out debate. Therefore, no matter how civil I may be with my suggestions or complaints, it's always drowned out by the background noise of genuinely ignorant posters. Why "passion"? Because I want this game to be great and I want to convince others to demand the same. To break from the stupor they may be feeling, and realize that without a unified community, nothing will change. It's not about trying to make people hate the game, it's trying to persuade them to give a nod to my platform. If they don't agree, so be it, but that's why we spend the time to create posts--to persuasion through logic and evidence. Passion and Feelings are for the dark side HERP DERP ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traumahawk Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 I am not exactly talking about useful constructive feedback, using the suggestions box etc... Most of these threads are just angry drama threads, with, as someone said above, nothing but a text written so some dude could vent his frustration/anger.. Hey I have a lot of suggestions etc. for the game, the best way to go about them is NOT to post some silly adolescent angry thread in general discussion, but to actually use the suggestion box... I agree, however, I see the same people who rightfully disavow the "rage posters" say the same thing to people with genuinely well thought-out and reasoned posts. It's a frenzy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerrusPA Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 (edited) I'm all for free speech as long as you are saying what I want to hear and it supports my view. Right? The adjective "constructive" seems innocent enough but when it's used to dismiss other peoples concerns... Edit: Oh by the way your post ain't constructive enough. Shame on you. Edited February 4, 2012 by FerrusPA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyDale Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 I am not exactly talking about useful constructive feedback, using the suggestions box etc... Most of these threads are just angry drama threads, with, as someone said above, nothing but a text written so some dude could vent his frustration/anger.. Hey I have a lot of suggestions etc. for the game, the best way to go about them is NOT to post some silly adolescent angry thread in general discussion, but to actually use the suggestion box... Ok that's a fair point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traumahawk Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 The adjective "constructive" seems innocent enough but when it's used to dismiss other peoples concerns... Edit: Oh by the way your post ain't constructive enough. Shame on you. Some opinions need to be destructive. I mean, if the foundations are shoddy, why not tear down the walls and start from scratch...right? Notice I said "destructive" not "violent". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apatheistic Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 I really don't understand, the game has loads of content, and just came out no more than 2 months ago. There's going to be content updates, expansions, and tons of refinements. Settle down and play some skyrim or counter-strike if you're waiting for some new content. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fiachsidhe Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Look, no. "Constructive criticism" is a stupid overused buzzword. Please look up how the term is used in a company environment or in regards to employer <-> employee relations. Demanding only "constructive" criticism is a way of making yourself immune to all criticism since you yourself can decide whether or not it's worthwhile. Look. No. It's not a buzzword. It's only a buzzword to people who don't know how to present an idea with a shred of dignity. I'm an artist. As such, constructive criticism has allowed my talent to grow. Telling someone they fail, and that something sucks, only makes you look glib and thoughtless. No one cares. Tell my why something sucks, and do it in a way that makes you look like your opinions had an ounce of logic, or thought behind them. This isn't a buzzword, this is common *********** sense. This is how adults deal with each other, how professionals deal with each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaun Posted February 4, 2012 Author Share Posted February 4, 2012 Because we have "passion". A trait that used to be lauded and admired, but is now relegated to the taboo netherworld with "hate speech" and "vitriol". We've also lost the ability to reason and have a well thought-out debate. Therefore, no matter how civil I may be with my suggestions or complaints, it's always drowned out by the background noise of genuinely ignorant posters. Why "passion"? Because I want this game to be great and I want to convince others to demand the same. To break from the stupor they may be feeling, and realize that without a unified community, nothing will change. It's not about trying to make people hate the game, it's trying to persuade them to give a nod to my platform. If they don't agree, so be it, but that's why we spend the time to create posts--to persuade through logic and evidence. If you wanted this game to be great, you would have been posting on these forums while it was still being developed.. at this point you have to understand that total game redesigns are probably not an option.. I have a lot of passion too, and I wanted it to be a lot different than it turned out to be, I posted on the forums in the early days, tried to make myself heard but BioWare still produced/released a game that really didn't adhere to many of the ideals forum posters were hoping for.. Read the press release they did in 2008, this is the game Bioware said they were making, and its the game they made, sure feedback is taken etc.. But understand that they still made the exact game they said they were gonna make in that press release, and not the next SWG that many forum posters were hoping for back then.. I think some of you have your demographics slightly effed up, or think that the world is centered around the hardcore mmo'ers pow.. Meh.. If you can't see what I mean, I guess you won't ever.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FerrusPA Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 I'm an artist. As such, constructive criticism has allowed my talent to grow. Telling someone they fail, and that something sucks, only makes you look glib and thoughtless. No one cares. Tell my why something sucks, and do it in a way that makes you look like your opinions had an ounce of logic, or thought behind them. What you're mad about is the presentation of criticism, not the criticism itself. People are dumb and they only get dumber when on the Internet. Nothing new here. Still, if a lot of people tell you an aspect of your game is bad then you should maybe take a closer look at that aspect, regardless of the way people express themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrikeOfLight Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Why do we care, you ask? Let me give you an analogy: I walk into a classy restaurant and order a Fillet Mignon w/ Garlic Mashed-Potatoes off the flashy menu. I waited patiently for a very long time, excited and hungry. Then, the Waiter comes out and throws a half-eaten tuna sandwich on the table, charges me for Fillet Mignon, and walks off. SWTOR is that half-eaten tuna sandwich. Bioware is the Waiter/Restaurant. ... ... ... You would be mad. Right? You likely wouldn't just take that sitting down. You'd ask for the Fillet Mignon you expected to replace the half-eaten tuna sandwich, or get the money back. That is what WE are doing. We want them to get the lead out of their pants and fix the game! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellvaan Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Hello everyone, We are closing this thread. While we understand that players can be frustrated with the community at times, please understand that threads like this (even when made with good intentions) tend to result in flame wars and have little room for constructive discussion. In the future, we encourage you to create threads that foster constructive discussion and not ones which criticize the community. We appreciate your understanding that we've closed this thread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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