Sentinel lacks depth (but so does almost every other class)

[Arrianlol]

Sentinels have 20 different buttons to dish out damage but they have zero depth. You just sit on a target and do damage sup. O they are hitting back? Let me roll one of my FIVE short duration medium CD defensive CDs.

 

Sad part is tons of other classes are even more shallow. Everybody has bloated *** action bars and zero depth.

 

I really wanted to play a knight class but spamming multiple buttons just for the RESOURCES to use my abilities is TERRIBLE design for a melee class in a game with this many knockbacks. I mean who DOESN'T have a knockback? lolol what a joke. This game is a mess. Have fun nerds.

[thebaldwin]

I find your analysis shallow and pedantic. Yes shallow and pedantic. Good day sir.

[CelticMarauder]

There are productive, helpful ways to voice complaints and request change, Arrianlol. This isn't one of them.

[Arrianlol]

There are productive, helpful ways to voice complaints and request change, Arrianlol. This isn't one of them.

 

I could go into ridiculous depth as to how this class could be drastically improved...but the people that like it won't like the change and the people that don't will just reroll. Here's a few things that need addressing.

 

Fix leap. It needs to either be off the GCD...stun...or both.

 

Consolidate abilities.... A LOT. One ability that should get a lot more use but nobody really talks about is crippling throw. This is our healing debuff. It should be one of the most important strikes we use in pvp and yet it does fluff damage. We have a plethora of abilities that JUST do damage and then another row of abilities that pmuch JUST have a desirable effect. This can easily be fixed and drastically improve the quality of life of sentinels in pvp and pve.

 

 

The resource system needs looked at. As it stands you need TALENTS to actually generate focus without having to spam attack. Having a "rage" like mechanic where you generate resources by attacking is great...if you weren't responsible for every single press of a "attack" to do it. Also you have no way of generating resources from range as a sentinel. It's not like we're getting focus every time we're getting hit. So if you are being kited it's a lose/lose. I don't mind having to WAIT for a resource or a CD...but having to CONSTANTLY be hitting buttons nonstop is just freakin ridiculous and stressful. I shouldn't have to be looking at a gaping dps loss if I don't do this fast enough (222222222223333322222222225621222222222222224232222222222222)

 

 

The UI is awful in general. Trying to see if you even have a leg slash or how many stacks of OS you have on a target when they are being hit by more than person is awful. You have no way to distinguish between your debuffs and another persons

 

This game seems to heavily favor ranged with delayed damage on abilities and terrible camera panning. I feel like I'm playing an FPS most WZ cuz the camera zooms in so far that people literally get knocked back or pulled OFF my screen. The animation needs to be secondary and the damage needs to go off instantly...IT'S AN INSTANT CAST STRIKE GDIT. And fix the camera crap. If it has to zoom in because your backs against a wall.....then ZOOM BACK OUT WHEN I MOVE, IT SHOULD NOT BE FASTER FOR ME TO STOP WHAT I'M DOING AND MANUALLY ZOOM OUT.

 

We need a better snare. I'm sorry but a melee classes snare should be better than a ranged snare. I can literally just zig when I should've zagged for a half a second and my target and I are moving at the same pace yards apart and I'm getting lit up in the process. It needs to be like 60% or better IMO. We can talent cauterize to a whopping 30% snare wooooo

[LiveandDieinLA]

Try the combat tree.

 

Extra snare break, 2 extra snares added onto skills, faster run speed in combat. Seems like it has everything you are ************ about not having.

[popober]

Want something that lacks depth? Play a Merc or Commando. You press one button that's it.

[Sleeptastic]

I don't see how removing skills and making the class less complicated increases depth.

[andrew_b_gross]

Sentinels have 20 different buttons to dish out damage but they have zero depth. You just sit on a target and do damage sup. O they are hitting back? Let me roll one of my FIVE short duration medium CD defensive CDs.

 

Sad part is tons of other classes are even more shallow. Everybody has bloated *** action bars and zero depth.

 

I really wanted to play a knight class but spamming multiple buttons just for the RESOURCES to use my abilities is TERRIBLE design for a melee class in a game with this many knockbacks. I mean who DOESN'T have a knockback? lolol what a joke. This game is a mess. Have fun nerds.

 

Bye bye!

[RamzaBehoulve]

Sentinel is not for you. Go find a class with less buttons.

[Superastro]

Sentinels have 20 different buttons to dish out damage but they have zero depth. You just sit on a target and do damage sup. O they are hitting back? Let me roll one of my FIVE short duration medium CD defensive CDs.

 

Sad part is tons of other classes are even more shallow. Everybody has bloated *** action bars and zero depth.

 

I really wanted to play a knight class but spamming multiple buttons just for the RESOURCES to use my abilities is TERRIBLE design for a melee class in a game with this many knockbacks. I mean who DOESN'T have a knockback? lolol what a joke. This game is a mess. Have fun nerds.

 

I have to agree at some stent. Bioware is still learning, I hope they change the classes, specialy Sentinels...

[Arrianlol]

I don't see how removing skills and making the class less complicated increases depth.

 

Pressing an ability to do damage, then an ability to get an effect != complicated.

 

Sentinel is NOT complicated. I don't get why people think the class is "complex" or "hard to master". Look at your skills. As watchman you really don't have any kind of priority system at all. Almost every ability is simply FCFS, you just need the focus. Even if you don't have a good rotation that has flawless weaving of zstrike and leaps you just spam attack. It's like whoever has the best ADHD wins...

[thebaldwin]

Pressing an ability to do damage, then an ability to get an effect != complicated.

 

Sentinel is NOT complicated. I don't get why people think the class is "complex" or "hard to master". Look at your skills. As watchman you really don't have any kind of priority system at all. Almost every ability is simply FCFS, you just need the focus. Even if you don't have a good rotation that has flawless weaving of zstrike and leaps you just spam attack. It's like whoever has the best ADHD wins...

 

 

Your analysis remains poor there are plenty of things that make PVP complex outside of the class. As watchman is a primarily damage class with no range and little CC and a lack of burst the complexity comes in simply staying on a target through the stuns, knockbacks, roots and slows long enough to actually kill someone. Picking the right target, staying out of a fight knowing when to stealth to get away and get back involved. That brings a level of complexity to the fight but it's still a basic MMO.

 

PVE as a damage dealer is simply an exercise in minimizing downtown for every class. If you think that there is more complexity somewhere else then, go roll something else and 'have fun nerd'.

[Talorra]

Pressing an ability to do damage, then an ability to get an effect != complicated.

 

Sentinel is NOT complicated. I don't get why people think the class is "complex" or "hard to master". Look at your skills. As watchman you really don't have any kind of priority system at all. Almost every ability is simply FCFS, you just need the focus. Even if you don't have a good rotation that has flawless weaving of zstrike and leaps you just spam attack. It's like whoever has the best ADHD wins...

 

lol.

 

There is definitely a priority for attacks as watchman. There is not a "rotation."

 

FCFS will have you doing marginal DPS at best.

[Arrianlol]

lol.

 

There is definitely a priority for attacks as watchman. There is not a "rotation."

 

FCFS will have you doing marginal DPS at best.

 

So what is the priority? There isn't...it's not a "use this before this" or "use this 3x then this"

 

You want as much uptime on OS stacks and cauterize...and you want to keep debuffs up like leg slash, and crippling throw...while merc slashing as often as you can. I don't think you understand what "priority" means. You pretty much do whatever you can to try and use all of your abilities as soon as possible. As watchman you don't even need to worry about the order...just try and get all ur dots up and get focus to merc slash while keeping up Lslash and Cthrow. It's not complex...it's just a ******** of work.

 

The only mechanic i really know of that gives any feeling of priority is using merc slash to reset the CD on cauterize. Which is terrible...they have the same CD...so if it doesn't work that time....better luck next round?? rofl

[demoncoww]

So what is the priority? There isn't...it's not a "use this before this" or "use this 3x then this"

 

You want as much uptime on OS stacks and cauterize...and you want to keep debuffs up like leg slash, and crippling throw...while merc slashing as often as you can. I don't think you understand what "priority" means. You pretty much do whatever you can to try and use all of your abilities as soon as possible. As watchman you don't even need to worry about the order...just try and get all ur dots up and get focus to merc slash while keeping up Lslash and Cthrow. It's not complex...it's just a ******** of work.

 

The only mechanic i really know of that gives any feeling of priority is using merc slash to reset the CD on cauterize. Which is terrible...they have the same CD...so if it doesn't work that time....better luck next round?? rofl

 

Your startling lack of intelligence is... well... startling. Your priority is accelerating merciless slash to full stacks so you can hit hard as often as possible. News Flash. You do this while keeping cauterize up, but not over-applying the dot and losing ticks. You also do this while keeping overload sabers up whenever it's off cooldown and trying to keep focus up for those times when merciless and overload happen simultaneously. If that's not enough, you're focus dumping to try and build centering for transcends for escape, insp in large groups, or needed health recovery and damage spikes through zen. What are YOU doing? No priority? Learn to play your class. You don't even need to always spam crippling throw in every situation, or even leg slash. You going to spam those against a lone, healless marauder? And I bet 'using things whenever possible' works great, when you pop your zen and all your dots are down, then you get to wait to put them back up, all while you're NOT building more centering because zen's still up. There's not only a timing element to optimizing sentinel but the intelligence factor in addition to the priority queuing. Even after you've mastered that factor, you can always try for slash procs to reset cauterize. The watchman order is so incredibly fluid and dynamic that you don't even understand how you'd optimize it.

 

By the way, if two things have the same CD, and you have to choose one over the other, the act of picking one for a certain logical or optimization reason is called PRIORITIZING.

 

Listening to what you say just makes me cringe more when I think about fighting healers, the watchman's PRIMARY DUTY IN PVP. How do you beat a healer when you're spamming focus generators and mashing every cooldown that pops up while they're beating your damage in healing?

 

You're just another one of those guys who plays my class but does nothing but whine. I love sentinel, watchman especially. You're nearly invincible 1v1, you have fantastic mobility and utility, and you have short cooldown mini heroisms and self healing in addition to debuffs and some serious damage dealing capabilities. Go roll something else with fewer buttons and less potential to change the battlefield.

[Wolfgarrex]

I don't see how removing skills and making the class less complicated increases depth.

 

If all classes had 5 buttons, the complicated rotation of those 5 buttons would be more challenging than a button for EVERY circumstance.

 

ie, "I have to press 443424 if i'm getting wailed on" rather than "Spam Saber Ward and Guarded by the Force".

 

However, that being said the OP is still wrong.

[Arrianlol]

Your startling lack of intelligence is... well... startling. Your priority is accelerating merciless slash to full stacks so you can hit hard as often as possible. News Flash. You do this while keeping cauterize up, but not over-applying the dot and losing ticks. You also do this while keeping overload sabers up whenever it's off cooldown and trying to keep focus up for those times when merciless and overload happen simultaneously. If that's not enough, you're focus dumping to try and build centering for transcends for escape, insp in large groups, or needed health recovery and damage spikes through zen. What are YOU doing? No priority? Learn to play your class. You don't even need to always spam crippling throw in every situation, or even leg slash. You going to spam those against a lone, healless marauder? And I bet 'using things whenever possible' works great, when you pop your zen and all your dots are down, then you get to wait to put them back up, all while you're NOT building more centering because zen's still up. There's not only a timing element to optimizing sentinel but the intelligence factor in addition to the priority queuing. Even after you've mastered that factor, you can always try for slash procs to reset cauterize. The watchman order is so incredibly fluid and dynamic that you don't even understand how you'd optimize it.

 

By the way, if two things have the same CD, and you have to choose one over the other, the act of picking one for a certain logical or optimization reason is called PRIORITIZING.

 

Listening to what you say just makes me cringe more when I think about fighting healers, the watchman's PRIMARY DUTY IN PVP. How do you beat a healer when you're spamming focus generators and mashing every cooldown that pops up while they're beating your damage in healing?

 

You're just another one of those guys who plays my class but does nothing but whine. I love sentinel, watchman especially. You're nearly invincible 1v1, you have fantastic mobility and utility, and you have short cooldown mini heroisms and self healing in addition to debuffs and some serious damage dealing capabilities. Go roll something else with fewer buttons and less potential to change the battlefield.

 

All this is really you grasping at straws, trying to make the sentinel class look more "challenging." It's not challenging and rewarding...it's poorly designed, thus handicapping players.

 

Merc slash stacking is a priority? So use it when it's not on CD...there isn't another ability that needs to precede this. And good luck stacking this on a good player (you probably don't see very many in random pug WZ's) when you have a window of 1 or 2 GCDs to get the second stack up.

 

Don't clip cauterize ticks? It has a 15s CD with a 6s duration. So unless you are sitting on 8 focus and go cauterize --> mslash ---> cauterize...you almost can't POSSIBLY clip the dot by more than a tick and in pvp i would rather reapply the dot than risk getting knocked back or stunned and having the dot fall off while I'm sitting on cauterize off CD.

 

So use overload saber everytime it's off CD gives it priority? It doesn't...the only thing that needs to proceed from OS is....melee attacks? It doesn't even matter which ones..cuz it's the same dot regardless of which attack applies it. Whether I use OS attack attack or OS cauterize, zstrike, mercslash really doesn't make a difference in terms of the OS dot.

 

 

I really don't understand why you don't get this, so here is nice example...

 

You have just killed a marauder. The only thing off CD attack wise is your leap, so you have a few seconds on everything. A commando just started attacking you and you can't LoS and wait for all of your CDs...you have no choice but to leap and start interrupting grav round spam and you leg slash immediately. What is the next ability you're going to use besides attack? Do you wait for multiple abilities or a certain ability to come off CD? or do you start dealing damage as soon as abilities come off CD?

 

For the most part you are going to be building focus then dumping it as fast as you can. You don't kill people by "outplaying" them...you do it by killing them before they kill you. Which usually comes from you using all your most damaging abilities as many times as you can while rolling defensive CDs (whatever ones are up pmuch, saving guarded by the force for when you are almost dead, for obvious reasons).

 

Now in pve where you are standing still..i could imagine a good player weaving abilities intricately for max dps as watchman. That all goes out the window in pvp however...so good luck with that. And yes I did reroll. And when ranked pvp comes out I'll be back to say "i told you so"

Edited February 5, 2012 by Arrianlol

[Arrianlol]

If all classes had 5 buttons, the complicated rotation of those 5 buttons would be more challenging than a button for EVERY circumstance.

 

ie, "I have to press 443424 if i'm getting wailed on" rather than "Spam Saber Ward and Guarded by the Force".

 

However, that being said the OP is still wrong.

 

OP is still wrong but i can't be bothered to explain why.....?

[demoncoww]

All this is really you grasping at straws, trying to make the sentinel class look more "challenging." It's not challenging and rewarding...it's poorly designed, thus handicapping players.

 

Merc slash stacking is a priority? So use it when it's not on CD...there isn't another ability that needs to precede this. And good luck stacking this on a good player (you probably don't see very many in random pug WZ's) when you have a window of 1 or 2 GCDs to get the second stack up.

 

Don't clip cauterize ticks? It has a 15s CD with a 6s duration. So unless you are sitting on 8 focus and go cauterize --> mslash ---> cauterize...you almost can't POSSIBLY clip the dot by more than a tick and in pvp i would rather reapply the dot than risk getting knocked back or stunned and having the dot fall off while I'm sitting on cauterize off CD.

 

So use overload saber everytime it's off CD gives it priority? It doesn't...the only thing that needs to proceed from OS is....melee attacks? It doesn't even matter which ones..cuz it's the same dot regardless of which attack applies it. Whether I use OS attack attack or OS cauterize, zstrike, mercslash really doesn't make a difference in terms of the OS dot.

 

 

I really don't understand why you don't get this, so here is nice example...

 

You have just killed a marauder. The only thing off CD attack wise is your leap, so you have a few seconds on everything. A commando just started attacking you and you can't LoS and wait for all of your CDs...you have no choice but to leap and start interrupting grav round spam and you leg slash immediately. What is the next ability you're going to use besides attack? Do you wait for multiple abilities or a certain ability to come off CD? or do you start dealing damage as soon as abilities come off CD?

 

For the most part you are going to be building focus then dumping it as fast as you can. You don't kill people by "outplaying" them...you do it by killing them before they kill you. Which usually comes from you using all your most damaging abilities as many times as you can while rolling defensive CDs (whatever ones are up pmuch, saving guarded by the force for when you are almost dead, for obvious reasons).

 

Now in pve where you are standing still..i could imagine a good player weaving abilities intricately for max dps as watchman. That all goes out the window in pvp however...so good luck with that. And yes I did reroll. And when ranked pvp comes out I'll be back to say "i told you so"

 

I guess I'll deconstruct this paragraph by paragraph.

 

I don't feel like I have to grasp at straws - I don't feel handicapped at all.

 

I love how you insert little insults to try and degrade my argument by the way. Firstly, I NEVER random pug WZs. This should change my argument a little, I guess, but my server has a few strong sith pvp premade running groups, and vs random or vs premade our side usually comes out on top. And yes, it is a priority, because, like you talked about, those abilities can come off cd simultaneously. If you've been playing the class poorly, by the way, you won't even be able to afford merc slash. Also, if you've been playing it poorly, you'll be overloaded on focus and ABLE to do it. So really, you saying that it's 'easy' or anything of the sort could just be your LACK of skill, and the reason why your damage numbers aren't what they should be.

 

And clipping cauterize ticks can come from cauterize -> slash OR merc slash, which should be happening A LOT, since merc slash is your primary damage dealer and slash is your primary focus dump. And yes, you do get kb'd and stunned a lot, but the fact of the matter is one's issue with kb everyone's issue. The smart player might even, during a clutch moment when 1 stack of the merciless buff is on and about to wear off, target a player close to their location post kb and merciless them to keep the stack up. Not to mention, 'taking risks' by leaving cauterize alone while the cooldown ticks is kinda part of pvp. I really would like to know about how much success you've had doing random WZs with fresh 50 gear playing a class you don't know how to optimize.

 

Overload Saber's 'priority' comes from focus that it essentially 'reserves' from your pool. Example, if you have 3 focus, OS is coming off CD next GCD, you don't slash, you strike or zstrike right? There ya go. It's not traditional rotation priority, but it does have pull and influence in your move set and takes precedence over dumps (excluding a merc strike with a few sec left on the stack). This makes it so that the move before can't be a move that lowers your focus to unusable levels. Or, maybe the enemies' hp is low enough that you can bypass OS completely in favor of your stacked merc and dispatch. By the way, OS being used on focus generators is a great way to make them not wastes of time in your order. If you whine and complain about tons of focus being needed for anything after a merc strike, you can spend your last three on OS then focus gen while your merc is on CD and your cauterize is down and the dot is up. Hooray, you've made a difference in the usefulness of your gens!

 

Your argument instantly lost validity when you forgot to mention any of your other possible post combat conditions. And I'm assuming, that in a battle with some marauder, I managed to burn my force camo as well? Somehow? I guess I'll assume I used it to mitigate a master strike or something, because marauders have SOOO many channeled abilities >.>. Anyway, dealing with the grav round spam. Cool story by the way, lord knows that dealing with a LONE COMMANDO is going to be a HUGE issue for a sentinel. Except not even slightly. And the next ability depends hugely on what's coming off first. Merc Slash isn't a huge cd so that's coming up asap, force camo could be useful if they have reinforcements, standard rebuke is only a minute CD so that's probably a good bet. You just don't get it do you?

 

Really, you don't kill people by outplaying them? So I guess I should just forget interrupts then, and let healers heal and casters cast. If you didn't 'outplay' an inquisitor with a KB, a healer, or a sniper with roots and such then you didn't beat them, plain and simple. Our class can be controlled so easily by others that it isn't even funny at this point. If you beat them, it is only because you played better than them. I dare you to try and sit on an inquis or a sniper or a healer or just about anything and simply kill them. It won't happen, you won't get that opportunity. I hear you complain a lot about this sort of scenario, and this just leads me to believe that watchman especially isn't for you. Watchman is all about creating situations where you can get off your obscenely picky merc slash /dot damage order.

 

'now in pve when you're standing still' THAT alone just made me lol. How many times have you ran EV and just stood still? Any hard mode clears even? Maybe in leveling you can stand still, but try doing that on Soa. Great job helping deal with those mind traps. Or even Bonecrusher or whatever his name is - yummy yummy cleave! I'm not saying they're well designed or anything, but in a lot of cases they at least force you to move. I'm going to go ahead and posit that you're just not good enough to play watchman the way it was intended, and came to this forum to cry about it in secret. And I can't WAIT for ranked pvp to come out. Especially some sort of arena style fighting.

[TheWhiskey]

OP is a surely a troll?

[Arrianlol]

And the next ability depends hugely on what's coming off first..

 

You heard it first here folks! well actually I said it first...but this is your sentinel class hero AGREEING with me.

 

Thanks for playing....everything else you said is a moot point.

[Arrianlol]

You think that this class is more like a shadow priest.....

 

 

 

/thread.

[demoncoww]

You think that this class is more like a shadow priest.....

 

 

 

/thread.

 

I like your responses to all of my other points.

 

And yeah, it is. Watchman at least is, not combat or focus. Try claiming sent is more ret than guardian though. Derp.

Edited February 6, 2012 by demoncoww

[Arrianlol]

I like your responses to all of my other points.

 

And yeah, it is. Watchman at least is, not combat or focus. Try claiming sent is more ret than guardian though. Derp.

 

You realize that ret pallies use a seal that causes their melee attacks to apply a dot that stacks right? You realize that ret has always been known for their forgiving FCFS rotation? O and guess what....ret is known for having terrible survivability outside of a CD or two

 

The fact is that you compared sentinels to a shadow priest....a cloth wearing caster with a mana pool...........................

 

 

 

Just let it die man. You almost sounded smart a couple pages back..but you apparently have this disconnect between what you think...and how it really is...

[Arrianlol]

There's a reason they make these MMOs with minimal requirements for systems....they want EVERYONE to be able to enjoy the game. Not just the people who're used to playing with 30 binds. Can I do it? Well ya, I've played a mage/priest/rogue/pally and I've been 2500. This is why I know what a melee class should feel like. The reason that people complain about being controlled as a watchman sent is because it requires so much throughput to DO damage. Being kited is a part of being a melee class. But the other part is us being able to throw up damage quickly as soon as we get on target. Another problem about being kited is that we have to be on target to build our resources...whereas every other class is POOLING resources while being controlled....you see how this puts us at a much greater disadvantage than other classes?

 

Watchman can't even SWITCH targets because our dots and everything else has a CD that's...what? 10s ++? That's crazy for a melee class to have.

 

If you want merc slash to have REAL synergy with the tree. Lower it's focus cost and damage a bit, remove the CD and have it's secondary effect either increase the stacks of burn on OS or increase the duration of your burns. IMHO.