Marauders do not need buff

[Ashnazg]

i wouldnt buff marauder or sentinel, i think they r pretty good balanced

 

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you haven't played a merc or a sorc or an operative, so you have no cross-class comparison point.

 

I have a 63 sorc main and a level 50/rank 40ish something marauder alt and I've benched him to do PvE only. He is currently wearing rakata / champ mix for PvP and while the survivability is excellent, the damage is absolute trash where it counts - burst - and the amount of CC in game is infuriating to a melee.

 

Put it this way, as a sorc I can pull bigger numbers and be a bigger benefit to the team, and win games while watching Californication on 2nd screen, while as a Marauder, each victory is a button-mashing, hair-grabbing experience. My merc friend in a premade is also a cruise-control class.

[Selixx]

How can the best huttball carrier class be in disadvantage in huttball? You know, this warzone is not about dealing more damage than *insert any class*.

 

I don't know what game you're playing but Assassins and Juggs are the best carriers in the game. Have you seen how hard they are to kill when tank specc'd and geared out? 24k HP, 10-12% pvp defense, 50% armor mitigation, 20% elemental/internal (for assassins), and some minor mitigation from shields. Assassins can just speed through/over fire pits, acid, whatever. When they get to that final endzone...gg, immunity to cc, force, and tech. Good luck stopping them. Jugs can just leap into the pit and toss to a teammate who runs to the endzone, or use intercede to jump to them, or charge to jump up on an enemy. They also can tank a lot of people. We only make decent runners when we have every CD up, plus an 80% predation.

 

You're wasting your time if you're main running the ball for your team as a Marauder, considering we can dismantle enemies faster then any class in the game. You should be destroying the enemy teammates around your tank.

[xDreegan]

I wouldn't be adverse to a buff for force leap that prevents us from suffering KB during the animation and maybe a second afterwards.

[CrazyAl]

I don't know what game you're playing but Assassins and Juggs are the best carriers in the game. Have you seen how hard they are to kill when tank specc'd and geared out? 24k HP, 10-12% pvp defense, 50% armor mitigation, 20% elemental/internal (for assassins), and some minor mitigation from shields. Assassins can just speed through/over fire pits, acid, whatever. When they get to that final endzone...gg, immunity to cc, force, and tech. Good luck stopping them. Jugs can just leap into the pit and toss to a teammate who runs to the endzone, or use intercede to jump to them, or charge to jump up on an enemy. They also can tank a lot of people. We only make decent runners when we have every CD up, plus an 80% predation.

 

You're wasting your time if you're main running the ball for your team as a Marauder, considering we can dismantle enemies faster then any class in the game. You should be destroying the enemy teammates around your tank.

 

clearly tanks are better ... at least assassin and jugg tanks

 

PT tanks? that debatable

 

but marauders are definitely the best non-tank ball carrier

 

plus ... good marauder ball runner > bad jugg/assassin ball runner

 

we have tools too

[Ashnazg]

PTs have a wonderful (and woefully underused) skill that gives them immunity to physics (e.g. movement adjusting mechanics such as pull/push) and all movement impairing effects (snares, roots, slows) for 8 seconds along with a 30% speed boost (and 15% elsewhere in the tree).

 

Unfortunately it cannot be combined with Jet Charge (would be obscenely OP otherwise), but even as it is, if you can get a sorc to pull a PT up to higher ledges, a score is almost guaranteed.

[Dawginole]

I play a 50 Marauder. PvP is not some 1v1 marathon its a all out brawl and if we don't have a healer and if our enemies do we are screwed Marauders can't punch out enough damage to out kill a person being healed or a healer solo half the time.

 

This. If you are 1v1 in PvP you will win almost every time. If a 2nd or 3rd DD joins the fight or a healer joins the fight you lose 100% of the time. With no CC and only one healing abliity every 20min which is worthless in PvP if you don't have a healer following you around you're dead. If you have a healer spotting you the whole PvP session, then yeah, watch out.

[Tumri]

If marauders are so awesome in raids, how come your 16 man Nightmare screenshot only seems to have one?

 

 

 

http://www.thirstytor.com/wp-content/uploads/Screenshot_2012-01-23_20_51_30_626660.jpg

 

Oh and 2 for your karagga NM

 

http://www.thirstytor.com/wp-content/uploads/Screenshot_2012-01-23_20_51_30_626660.jpg

 

 

I would think that if the marauders were as SUPREME as you seem to claim, you would bring more then 1-2 of them in a 16man raid.

 

1: you failed to mention Undying rage takes 50% of our hp, and its a 99% dmg red fyi.

 

2: Saber ward is a 3min cool down, not exactly something you'll use at all times, oh and you forgot the part about it being only 25% to tech and force

 

And 12 seconds is not enough times to kill 2 people who use theyr cooldowns also.

 

Even less so if they are somewhat equally geared.

 

3: I play a Sentinel and a Marauder, both 50, both raiding. You have a 26 marauder, stay under your bridge.

 

4: you forgot to mention that force camo only lasts for 5 seconds, you try very hard to make it sound like the same thing as stealth.

 

 

 

PS: I don't care if you are the self proclaimed 7th guild in progression.. Newsflash: Swtor raiding is simple.

 

As for 16 man, the only thing impressive about it is beating the trash, since the bosses are actually easier then 8man -_-

 

And people don't bother suffer trough the lag just to get the same or less loot.

 

While I agree with most of your points that bit about 8-man being harder than 16-man is total BS. My guild did 8-man and trust me it's a joke in comparison to 16-man. All raids are easy right now but 8-man is like fluffy kitten nightmare mode. There's a reason nobody tracks 8-man nightmare clears.

Edited February 4, 2012 by Tumri

[Squarez]

We don't need a buff, the class is fine.

[Dawginole]

I play a Sentinel and a Marauder, both 50

 

Brother, can you PM your secret for already having 2 classes at 50? I play 4-8 hours a day since launch outside of maybe 2 weeks out of town for work and I'm at 36 and just started Balmorra and I do every single quest I come across for XP. That's crazy to me.

[dcgregorya]

Whenever I roll with a marauder whom actually knows how to play this game, he beats pretty much every DPS class, including myself, EVERY time in the damage meters, and I am an extremely competent pvp player. In raids, marauders are our number 1 priority for battle resurrection for dps classes as they do the most damage in our raids.

 

Three things.

 

1) You're relying on the PVP Damage meters which value AOE over single target damage. If I throw a grenade and it does 1000 to 3 people, it shows as 3000, which is actually quite useless. All the PVP specs that do well in warzones are BM/otherwise highly geared rage specs who do tons of AOE but don't really impact the fight much.

 

2) If a marauder is your #1 rez priority then you're doing something extremely wrong or you have a really bad mix of classes. BH DPS or Sniper should always be priority over a marauder unless the marauder is ridiculous amounts better than your BH and Snipers and much better geared.

 

3) A marauder can outdamage a BH if both are in full BM gear depending on who the targets are. BH will outperform against tanks, marauder will outperform against squishies. A sniper will outperform both in both scenarios if spec'd and geared right. A BH will outperform both in every scenario until they get the full set of PVP weapons and gear.

Edited February 4, 2012 by dcgregorya

[deathTouchIG]

Three things.

 

1) You're relying on the PVP Damage meters which value AOE over single target damage. If I throw a grenade and it does 1000 to 3 people, it shows as 3000, which is actually quite useless. All the PVP specs that do well in warzones are BM/otherwise highly geared rage specs who do tons of AOE but don't really impact the fight much.

 

2) If a marauder is your #1 rez priority then you're doing something extremely wrong or you have a really bad mix of classes. BH DPS or Sniper should always be priority over a marauder unless the marauder is ridiculous amounts better than your BH and Snipers and much better geared.

 

3) A marauder can outdamage a BH if both are in full BM gear depending on who the targets are. BH will outperform against tanks, marauder will outperform against squishies. A sniper will outperform both in both scenarios if spec'd and geared right. A BH will outperform both in every scenario until they get the full set of PVP weapons and gear.

 

Citations needed.

[Munx]

Brother, can you PM your secret for already having 2 classes at 50? I play 4-8 hours a day since launch outside of maybe 2 weeks out of town for work and I'm at 36 and just started Balmorra and I do every single quest I come across for XP. That's crazy to me.

 

Theres no secret to it, I've played since launch as much as 12 hours a day, even with watching the dialouge it shouldnt take your more then a week.

 

 

As for 16 man being harder then 8 man, yes it is harder because the trash is a *****, the bosses how ever are a joke even more so then the 8 man ones, especially now that they fixed SoA's double lightning balls in 16 man.

 

And yes 8 man is fluffy kitten style, but so are the bosses in 16 man

 

Hell they even nerfed the pylon boss.

 

In fairness though, there are exceptions like Kaheesh in the infernal Council, hes a real *****, and not alot of fun to deal with as a marauder

Edited February 5, 2012 by Munx

[atreyuz]

Brother, can you PM your secret for already having 2 classes at 50? I play 4-8 hours a day since launch outside of maybe 2 weeks out of town for work and I'm at 36 and just started Balmorra and I do every single quest I come across for XP. That's crazy to me.

 

you are playing 4-8 hours a day...and still lvl 36 after more then one month?

 

Are you beating on mobs with a wooden stick instead of using lightsabers?

[Goatwarlord]

As a marauder it does seem that I have a "Kill me first!" sign taped to my back.

 

I'm fairly sure its because they recognize that I am a very easy kill(unless I frantically pop all my defensive cds or manage to force camo away and slip unnoticed back into the fight.) more so than that I am a threat.

 

Most of my fights start with me getting knocked down to near death before I can even react and activate my cooldowns and end with me trying to limp away with force camo and/or barely survive with 1% thanks to undying rage.

 

I can do pretty good damage, but I am rarely given a chance to because I'm so damn squishy and have to play so defensively.

 

Haven't seen much mention of rage spec. Its fun if you can get into a group of enemies and unleash some 4k+ smash auto crits and vicious slash cleaves.

Edited February 5, 2012 by Goatwarlord

[Maxxacre]

If Bioware is just "listening to the masses" to determine the nerfs and buffs, THEN WHY HAVE THEY NOT NERFED THE SORCERER, WHO PEOPLE HAVE BEEN COMPLAINING ABOUT SINCE DAY 1????

 

Sometimes, QQ is justified. In the case of Operatives, it was justified and Bioware took action. In the case of Sorcerers, BW didn't see that it was justified and they have therefore done nothing to nerf the Sorcerer/Sage.

 

Marauder is the most powerful 1v1 class in this game when played correctly and is an amazing DPS in both PvP and PvE... but most people don't play it right so they need their hands held with a buff. It's fine by me, I'll just wreck even more.

[Kodokai]

Brother, can you PM your secret for already having 2 classes at 50? I play 4-8 hours a day since launch outside of maybe 2 weeks out of town for work and I'm at 36 and just started Balmorra and I do every single quest I come across for XP. That's crazy to me.

 

Space bar everything but story class quests. The VO is the grind in this game.

Edited February 5, 2012 by Kodokai

[Aethyriel]

If Bioware is just "listening to the masses" to determine the nerfs and buffs, THEN WHY HAVE THEY NOT NERFED THE SORCERER, WHO PEOPLE HAVE BEEN COMPLAINING ABOUT SINCE DAY 1????

 

Sometimes, QQ is justified. In the case of Operatives, it was justified and Bioware took action. In the case of Sorcerers, BW didn't see that it was justified and they have therefore done nothing to nerf the Sorcerer/Sage.

 

Marauder is the most powerful 1v1 class in this game when played correctly and is an amazing DPS in both PvP and PvE... but most people don't play it right so they need their hands held with a buff. It's fine by me, I'll just wreck even more.

 

Alright... a few points;

 

- I've never seen so many people being so wrong or simply ignorant and childish about changes in a game

- I can't believe someone really wants to back up his statements by saying they think Marauder is the best pve dps class without any, really any tiny little bit of data to back it up.

- I really fail to see how dmg done in a bg has anything to do with class balance, if anything, it just proves that rage spec with the ******** of ae dmg it can dish out (yäy for big numbers) will probably get nerfed at some point and it's mostly the only reason Maras are on top currently (besides the usual "being completely ignored and allowed to rage through people like a madman)

 

to calrify nerfs and not nerfing sorcerer:

 

- Operatives where nerfed because their suprising burst dmg was not leaving much room for buffs which the class isgoind to receive after they see how things work out now. There simply wasn't any time in a grp scenario to react to their burst dmg, there was no response and they were the only class capable of doing this kind of burst dmg while ccing 1 player consitently.

 

- Sorc has not been nerfed, although currently overpowered, because their balancing act is just really really hard. If you were talking only pvp.. sure, piece of cake, but you can't just take away their mobility while healing, it will hurt their role in PVE (and yeah, suprisingly you heal with others in a grp setting who all have different strenghts and weakneses).

 

Sorc also has some kind of unique mechanic with the huge pool of force they have from the beginning, allowing them to execute most of their moves without "ever" running out of it or having to build it up (IA/BH both have a mechanic that weakens them if they'd blast out all their skills like this, warrios need to build their resource with very weak attacks first). It just isn't that easy taking all these things and then finding a way to balance it without hurting the class in pve or gimping it completely. It takes time.

 

People need to understand that every change you make to any class or skill or talent or whatever has a huge effect on general gameplay, especially in a game that provied pve as much as pvp gamemodes with different settings. Operatives were nerfed pretty hard and are currently not as great as they could be, but the nerf did free space for future improvement, they need to monitor these changes first though.

 

For example, you can't just increase their dot dmg now to make them fine in a raid situation dpsing a boss as it doesn't really help them in pvp, does it? You can't also just spam them with utility and cc skills because you have to consider all the skillls currently in game providing those benefits and balance it out.

 

As for the warrior changes... we got 1 bugfix and increase to dotdmg which was somewhat justified because the talent as it was.. well, it sucked. It was the last 3 points before your ultimate in the tree and it provided an almost insignificant boost to the one thing the spec was all about - bleeds. I said it a while back.. it just wasn't fun and/or exciting and in the end, that's what it's about.

 

Rage spec Smash crits are too high too atm, but you'll have to change the talent tree to provied an overall compensation for the lose of the skill first before you nerf it unless you want to gimp it (which they basically did to IA, but their whole gameplay is somewhat messed up and needs a lot more work than they could fit in a small patch like this).

Just be patient, their not making any rash decisions and nerfing stuff because of some of you whining like babies on the forums.. trust me, it's just a huge balancing act that will have several classes taking steps back or forward, OP oder UP during the time they get the nerfs/Buffs, but ultimately it will lead to a better balance overall.

 

I wouldn't be suprised if sorc gets a few buffs first and 2 patches later they get nerfed in other areas, I actually expect it to play out this way, it'S easier and safer to do it this way and I'm so not looking forward to all the dumb stuff people gonna write about it...

[Maxxacre]

I really fail to see how dmg done in a bg has anything to do with class balance, if anything, it just proves that rage spec with the ******** of ae dmg it can dish out (yäy for big numbers) will probably get nerfed at some point and it's mostly the only reason Maras are on top currently (besides the usual "being completely ignored and allowed to rage through people like a madman)

 

First of all, when someone says a class is a complete joke and it's terrible in PvP, being able to consistently top damage in warzones and wreck anyone in a solo fight goes a long way towards demonstrating that the class is in fact fine.

 

Secondly, I don't top damage in warzones by 100k by spamming Smash in Rage spec. In fact, I don't use Rage spec at all. I use Annihilation, and here is pretty much what average rounds look like for me:

 

http://i.imgur.com/BsRbw.jpg

 

http://i.imgur.com/dVZRg.jpg

 

That's almost all single target DPS. Aside from simply putting up big numbers, I'm able to play to the objective extremely well, I have great survivability, and I can kill anyone I come across in a 1v1 with confidence. I'd say that's a pretty damn good PvP class....

 

Also, I'm actually under-geared compared to most of the enemies I fight anyway. I only have 225 Expertise right now, and my lightsabers are specifically pretty bad, so this is definitely not a case of being well-geared.

[KujjeR]

Ok I am going to first say this, I come from the guild Thirsty which is currently world 7th in all content clear. I have played this game since day one and have seen everything. I play a Rank 65 BH mercenary with 4/5 BM gear, MH and OH BM. Still need gloves/bracers/belt.

 

Whenever I roll with a marauder whom actually knows how to play this game, he beats pretty much every DPS class, including myself, EVERY time in the damage meters, and I am an extremely competent pvp player. In raids, marauders are our number 1 priority for battle resurrection for dps classes as they do the most damage in our raids.

 

Now, there is the problem with their abilities to survive which further enhances their complete over powered playstyle. Their first shield does 50% damage reduction for 12 seconds. 12 seconds is way more than enough time for a marauder to kill TWO people and still live. Well if that shield does not help them out to survive, they have a 90% damage reduction cheat death that lasts for 5 second but with a 90 second cool down.

 

Well if all else fails, they can just pop their vanish ability with has a 45 second cool down. On top of this ability to survive they can also charge and interrupt with a EIGHT second cool down! When I watch marauders they pretty much wipe out the whole enemy team and only have about 2-3 (most of the time 0 with a healers) deaths throughout a whole match.

 

So why do they deserve this buff? The simple answer is that Bioware is listening to the masses, and it is safe to say the masses do not have the highest intellect level when playing this game. Making masses happy= money.

 

There is no counter to what I have said... I see what I see and I hear what I hear from these marauder players and even THEY themselves think this buff is a joke.

 

There is no need to buff a buffed class. Stop listening to the masses whom are not entirely all the good at playing this game!

 

Yea the problem is that a marauder actually have to be both skilled and left alone by range dps to do dmg, if anyone with a brain focus the marauder he will have to vanish in 4 secs and god forbit he use his charge instead of running like a moron he will be pushed down and rooted yea we cant dps while rooted from every knockdown in the game.

 

And guess what by getting knocked and while standing rooted the resolve bar that isent even close to full will go down so if the marauder charge again it can be repeated for enernity since the resolvebar will go down even thoue you stand like a moron not being able to do ****.

 

Same time we have classes like mercenarys taking 1 high ground in huttball spamming 1 damn button doing twice as much dmg as a skilled marauder while being able to change specc and become immortal healers.

 

The problem here is that in a mmo game you cant judge classes from the best player pov you have to judge it from the masses so what if 1 marauder in 1000 can pwn dmgcharts like a boss if we have 500/1000 merc that can do the same with way less skill.

 

Im all for range dmg having knockdowns just remove the damn root effect on them, and with this much knockdowns going on yea it should hurt having a marauder on your *** after all its a pure dpsclass and if it cant do dmg good what use are they?

 

But yea i agree that marauders dont need a buff its the cc/roots and some other classes that needs some toning. I mean i still see operatives killing me while stunned and im soon full bm. I do think they deserve good burst dmg but atleast they should have to make the choice of stun or burning someone down not make it noskill have it all. i dont care about dying if i atleast can do something to defend myself.

 

Same with merc retarded tracerspam tree, a freeking bot would be able to play it and do decent and thats retarded.

 

And one last thing healers with 50% tank dmg reduction its freeking insane tanks already do decent dmg why let them make geared healers immortal aswell? tone it down 50% is 2 much. However when rated bgs come i think it will be mandatory to have a tank for each healer but then all teams has it now its just retarded when random pvping vs tank+healers using a brain.

 

Better to go and take upp the real issues then coming here to worry about a marauder buff i really hope you made a fixx merc spamming thread before this one.

[Starbuckx]

Yes what dps meters are spoken of here?

 

The lack of any dps meters means we can't test dps.

 

I think its too much cc in game that gimps most marauders, but need some serious testing and it shouldn't be harder to play than other classes to get the dmg. Skill should give the advantage not the lack of it a disadvantage.

[SwigMcJigger]

I just want the damage meters that the OP has.

[saminaobx]

says a Level 26 Sith Warrior Marauder

 

End thread.

[Hardways]

Brother, can you PM your secret for already having 2 classes at 50? I play 4-8 hours a day since launch outside of maybe 2 weeks out of town for work and I'm at 36 and just started Balmorra and I do every single quest I come across for XP. That's crazy to me.

 

THIS is crazy to ME! I play three to four hours an evening, six nights a week and I have two level fifties and a thirty four. I enjoyed/watched the story all the way through on both the the higher levels as well and didn't begin to skip the chatter until my third run through.

[BrianDavion]

BTW I was in eternity vault the other night and apparently the marauder's self heal from DOTs is classed as a"buddy help"

[Squarez]

marauders do not need a buff