Vannila WoW vs SWTOR

[InnateOne]

My god, do you even try to comprehend a reply you are quoting?

 

 

Yes, at the end of your original post you talk about how much world PvP there was, which essentially was non existent until sometime well after the games release when they Introduced the honor system. (I also am at work and had to take a call, and accidentally hit submit reply, for that I'm sorry if it came off wonky)

 

There really wasn't a whole heck of a lot that you could do max level at Vanilla WoW's release.

 

The only point I was trying to make is that most of the things people look back fondly on weren't even part of the original game. They were all things that were built on as the game matured. Hopefully SWTOR will be the same way, and grow into itself.

Edited February 3, 2012 by InnateOne

[Voqar]

All the stuff the OP lilsted is fluff that doesn't really matter and/or is purely opinion. Let's look at some things of substance that actually matter, that many forget when looking at WoW NOW.

 

At release, WoW had ZERO battlegrounds - first one didn't appear until 6 months or so in (check wiki) and was all kinds of unbalanced and broken (to the point of needing multiple revamps and the introduction of resilience)

 

TOR released with 3 battlegrounds.

 

At release, WoW had ZERO hard modes for instances, no emblem gear. At 50 you got to grind the same tiny amount of instances.

 

TOR released with hardmodes for several instances per faction (still not enough for my tastes by a mile, and they are generally way too long and have way too much trash, tons of balance issues for risk vs reward, etc - weren't tested or balanced nearly enough in the rush to hit release date).

 

At release, WoW had ZERO dailies and highly disorganized/scattered questing (that revolutionized MMORPG leveing, but still, they refined it to be hub-like over years of expac to the point that by cata they revamped ALL leveling content to their more evolved style).

 

TOR released with 2 different areas with PvE dailies, instance dailies and weeklies, PvP and space dailies, and not only with the now standard hub style questing but with a huge leap in quest immersiveness and depth with all the VO/VA and stories.

 

I think 40 man raiding is very stupid and even if you like it, it's not accessible by the masses by any means.

 

At release, WoW had ONE 40 man raid (molten core and I'm pretty sure it was very rough in the early days broken-wise) and a 10 man pseudo raid (UBRS). Other raid content came much later over a span of YEARS. ZG, BWL, Naxx - all came later - none of them had hard modes.

 

TOR has oen full fledged raid and quickly bumped the lean raid to be about 2/3 of a raid - with several different modes (8/16/normal/hard). Not exceesibly more content but more variety and raid sizes that are way more accessible.

 

WoW's early AH worked pretty well even if it was stripped down compared to what it has evolved to now - which is still simplistic without addons like auctionator.

 

TOR's GTN interface makes you wonder if BW's designers/coders have every played any game with player economy.

 

WoW released with macros and full addon support that to this day crushes what anybody else has done before or since - it's kind of amazing how much players take it for granted - til you play other games that have nothing or an ultra stripped down weak sauce verson of addons.

 

TOR - is an embarassment to the genre for lack of any addon support, lack of any type of macro suppport, no target of target, no combat log, no threat indicators, almost zero UI customization (you can keybind and display more bars...) - ie, misisng a ton of BASIC features along with the slickness you expect from a AAA contender to the throne. To see how lame it is to add addon support after release, check out Rift, where they may as well as not have bothered.

 

WoW at release was essentially linear. Yeah, you could quest in different zones at times but you usually needed to so you'd get enough xp to hit cap. LATER they reduced xp needed and increased xp gained such that players didn't have to hit every single zone and quest to hit cap, which makes people now think WoW is pseudo sandboxy..but it was not at release, not even close.

 

IMO, too many people either didn't play WoW at release and thikn they know everything (welcome to the internet, eh?) and/or only look at WoW now forgetting that even with blizzard's glacial pace of providing subscribers with new content and features, has evolved considerably since release (mostly thru us paying more for expacs).

 

Bliz tries to milk players dry for every penny they can squeeze out. Exhorbitant fees for transfers, faction changes, vanity pets, mounts, and anything else they can sell to suckers at astronomical fees.

 

We don't know if BW will go a similar route, but since they're as corporate as bliz you have to kind of expect it eventually. I hope they go more the Trion route of pumping out insane amounts of stuff for paying subscribers with free/trivial fees for extras.

[Bobbyrab]

WoW had night and day.

Weather.

Music all the time.

Critters.

Mobs patrolling.

Lots of crafting materials to farm... consumables. Made you walk in the world. Since herbs for many kind of potions, Felwood consumables in an awsome ambient music etc. You even had fish to get in the RL winter and summer etc

Dungeons... you had to move in the world, travel.. find enemies.

No silly loads.

 

Well wow didnt had much. But it had immersion with bad graphics but with good colour, music and ambients.

 

SWTOR got nothing of this in 2012 and it still fails at other "simple" important stuff.... like good coding.

 

I bet Bioware started to dev this game by making story and maps. Then added the rest.

A sloppy combat system, sloppy world, sloppy weather... sloppy wild life. Sloppy NPC's.

Crap travel system.

 

This game is inferior to vanilla wow... just got better graphics.

 

No.. I don't play wow for many years. I'm just comparing 2 diferent vanilla flavours and I think I prefer the original version.

 

 

That’s your opinion, of course, but I’ll tell you something WoW didn’t have: fully voiced quests and stories for classes. Now, some don’t care for that…but others do.

[Ainianu]

a good chat system and good auction house are considered standards for any online game so why did swtor not use them?

 

i would like to see a post on other standards that swtor should add

 

a standard is only a standard if it becomes "Used or accepted as normal or average"

 

Perhaps i have been playing the wrong MMO's because half of the ones i played dont even HAVE this 'auction house' feature at all (Everquest for example that you mentioned is one i played a lot and you have to stand with your in world character functioning as a merchant...)

 

given how often 'auction house' is asked for i presume its the WoW specific trading service but since i only played WoW at its launch a long time ago and for a short time i dont really recall how great this thing was, and can only assume its vastly different now

 

SWTOR Does have the GTN, and asside from armour not being able to sort by slot, i really dont see whats wrong with it.

 

SWTOR chat system also seems perfectly fine, there is room for improvement probably but its not worse than any other game ive played.

 

Standard is something completely different from person to person i think depending on which games they have played

 

and Standard does not mean 'because WoW has it' because many other games are better off for not being like WoW as far as im concerned.

[Saurakk]

Good thing you mention only vanilla WoW, because SWTOR doesn't a change against Tutty Fruity WoW.

 

this made me lol.

 

Yes, little things keep me entertained...must be why I like this game even though so many say I must be stupid if I do.

[DevilsaintKLS]

A month after release in vanilla WoW, there was also absolutely nothing to do.

 

UBRS maybe and farming people near Southshore, which I know a million people will claim was the greatest event ever, but it just wasn't.

 

Nothing to do after one month of vanilla wow?...you obviously didn't play Vanilla wow cause you weren't 60 after one month...unless you played 12 hours a day for at least 2 weeks

 

Thank you. come again!

[Wolfeisberg]

You seem to have forgotten that vanilla had....

- Absolutly no PVP system other than ganking on PvP servers

- Several broken classes

- Amazingly huge downtime server issues and overpopulated servers

- Almost no end game content at release (UBRS was it)

- etc

 

 

 

I find it funny that the Wow fanboys forget the cluster **** that game was when it released.

 

Actually WoW had Molten Core and Onxyia raids at the time of release.

[Buur]

Actually WoW had Molten Core and Onxyia raids at the time of release.

 

Uh oh...

[Wolfeisberg]

Uh oh...

 

huh?

[DarthKong]

Actually WoW had Molten Core and Onxyia raids at the time of release.

 

Indeed, and fantastic raids they were!!

[Ngamok]

Actually, people weren't max level a month after release.

 

And, a month after SWTOR there is absolutely nothing to do, considering PvP is terrible and forming groups for flashpoints and operations is sketchy at best (depending on your server or time of day you can play).

 

LOL, I had TWO guild members hit lvl 60 right around December 18th or 20th. WoW released just before Thanksgiving, the 24th or 26th I believe. That is less than a month. Lot of you people don't remember jack about vanilla WoW. Those 2 guild members weren't the only 2 either. They had a UBRS group going nightly for loots. Must have been around 10 of them or so that hit max about the same time.

[LyriaFrost]

Nothing to do after one month of vanilla wow?...you obviously didn't play Vanilla wow cause you weren't 60 after one month...unless you played 12 hours a day for at least 2 weeks

 

Thank you. come again!

 

Actually, there were quite a few 60th level people within the first month after WoW was released.

 

I remember seeing them hanging around Ironforge and Stormwind about 3 weeks into the game's release (I was there on day-1). And this was on RP servers, where people would actually sit around and RP instead of grind non-stop. I RP'd all the time, and I still made it to 60th level within 5 weeks.

 

Saying "there weren't any" is a fallacy. There are ALWAYS going to be people who blow through all the content and hit max level, just to say they did it first.

 

Before I left (just before BC came out) there were people having "races" to see just how fast they could hit the level cap. I think someone made it in less than 5 days.

[Buur]

huh?

 

Just a lot of people get really worked up when you call Onyxia a raid for some reason. It was... but that isn't enough for some people in this thread.

[Ngamok]

Ofc not... idnt had pvp.

 

people just raided towns by the dozens and hundreds of people fighting with no honor system even. Was fun and people did it.

 

There was a world, towns and people moved around and organized world pvp.

 

Much better than this **** 3 warzones with worse coded combat system ever.

 

And felt like a game.. with IMMERSION. Swtor got ZERO immersion

 

There is / was absolutely no IMMERSION in WoW. There were a few quests with lore stuff but it was all the same as every other MMO. Go here kill stuff, collect stuff. IMMERSION draws you into the story and game world. Sorry, you must have played on a RP server then. No PvP server I played on did I ever feel drawn in.

[Drunkasaurus]

Vanilla WoW was buggy as hell. You had to, like, 10 man scholo. Warriors were terrible until they got an arcanite reaper. Rogues could 100-0 a warlock because there weren't diminishing returns on stuns or they were on a separate diminishing return. Servers would be down all the time. No battlegrounds. PvE servers were even more imbalanced than SWTOR.

 

I think you have a case of rose colored goggles.

[Buur]

Actually, there were quite a few 60th level people within the first month after WoW was released.

 

I remember seeing them hanging around Ironforge and Stormwind about 3 weeks into the game's release (I was there on day-1). And this was on RP servers, where people would actually sit around and RP instead of grind non-stop. I RP'd all the time, and I still made it to 60th level within 5 weeks.

 

Saying "there weren't any" is a fallacy. There are ALWAYS going to be people who blow through all the content and hit max level, just to say they did it first.

 

Before I left (just before BC came out) there were people having "races" to see just how fast they could hit the level cap. I think someone made it in less than 5 days.

 

I remember being amazed when I saw a couple of 60s outside SW very soon after launch. Thought to myself "My god, how is that possible. What nerds." Then found out one of them was a guildmate from my old UO days. Small world.

[LyriaFrost]

I remember being amazed when I saw a couple of 60s outside SW very soon after launch. Thought to myself "My god, how is that possible. What nerds." Then found out one of them was a guildmate from my old UO days. Small world.

 

Yeah, some people just BLAZE through content. Course, those are the people who literally play like 14-16 hours a day, every day, for a week straight. Heck, I was between jobs when WoW came out, so I played a lot too, so I'd stare glassy-eyed at my monitor for 8+ hours a day sometimes.

 

When my bf and I decided to switch to a new RP server when they opened a brand new one, about 3 months after the game went live, we both made it to 60 within a month, and we were both working full time.

 

And I was the first 60th level priest on the horde side. High Priestess of the Horde for like a week.

Edited February 3, 2012 by LyriaFrost

[DevilsaintKLS]

Actually, there were quite a few 60th level people within the first month after WoW was released.

 

I remember seeing them hanging around Ironforge and Stormwind about 3 weeks into the game's release (I was there on day-1). And this was on RP servers, where people would actually sit around and RP instead of grind non-stop. I RP'd all the time, and I still made it to 60th level within 5 weeks.

 

Saying "there weren't any" is a fallacy. There are ALWAYS going to be people who blow through all the content and hit max level, just to say they did it first.

 

Before I left (just before BC came out) there were people having "races" to see just how fast they could hit the level cap. I think someone made it in less than 5 days.

 

First, I didn't say that "there weren't any", I said that the person that replied wasn't 60. Secondly, I also stated that you weren't 60...unless you played 12 hours a day, which some people did at that time. And Finaly, there's a difference between hitting max level in around 2-3 weeks than 2-3 days...

[Ngamok]

It shipped with Onyxia and Molten Core. They were just actually challenging and people had to gear up in dungeons. They weren't cleared by fresh 60s in greens.

 

Molten Core was patched in around January / February. The zone was there, but nothing else. Not sure about Onyxia.

 

Edit: I looked back at the release dates on patches, patch 1.2 was in early December which fixed an issue with people who went in there after getting attuned and dying to trash.

Edited February 3, 2012 by Ngamok

[Saurakk]

First, I didn't say that "there weren't any", I said that the person that replied wasn't 60. Secondly, I also stated that you weren't 60...unless you played 12 hours a day, which some people did at that time. And Finaly, there's a difference between hitting max level in around 2-3 weeks than 2-3 days...

 

Oh people now hit 50 in this game in 2-3 days?

 

Catheters, feeding tubes, and no sleep I take it?

[Ngamok]

Molten Core got patched in a month after release and Onyxia after that. Neither were in for release.

 

PRETTY MUCH THIS. I knew MC wasn't there. And you are right, Onyxia was in after.

[Buur]

Molten Core was patched in around January / February. The zone was there, but nothing else. Not sure about Onyxia.

 

No, that isn't true. They were both there just not properly itemized at launch. Which was mostly fine since no one could do them at launch anyway.

[LyriaFrost]

First, I didn't say that "there weren't any", I said that the person that replied wasn't 60. Secondly, I also stated that you weren't 60...unless you played 12 hours a day, which some people did at that time. And Finaly, there's a difference between hitting max level in around 2-3 weeks than 2-3 days...

 

So ... you weren't max level unless you played a lot? And that's some sort of disclaimer how?

 

To hit max level quickly in ANY game you have to play a lot. I was hitting 60th with on average around 5 days /played time. That's 120 hours. In one month, that's playing 30 hours a week. Hardly "12 hours a day".

 

The people who were hitting 60th in TWO WEEKS played that much, yes, but hitting 60th in a month was child's play.

 

(edit): And yeah, I think I got you mixed up with the other guy who said "there weren't any 60th levels within the first month". You were both kind of claiming similar things, so I mistook you for him.

Edited February 3, 2012 by LyriaFrost

[Wolfeisberg]

Molten Core was patched in around January / February. The zone was there, but nothing else. Not sure about Onyxia.

 

 

Bzzt, wrong.

 

 

Patch 1.1.0 notes for WoW, this is the patch for day 1

http://www.wowwiki.com/Patch_1.1.0

 

"New Raid Encounters

 

Rumors of Onyxia, an enormous black dragon, have been heard through out Azeroth. Be sure to bring many brave warriors for she won’t take kindly to intruders in her lair. Both factions will need to complete unique, and challenging quests to gain access to the Onyxia encounter. **During the beta testing there will be a temporary placeholder vendor who sells keys to Onyxia’s lair for testing purposes.

 

Discovered in the heart of Blackrock Mountain beyond the Depths, lies the Molten Core. Within the Molten Core lives a multitude of ancient and powerful evil. Adventurers be ware, for the dangers found within the Molten Core are many and takes many forms. "

[Xivez]

And yes, farming consumables is boring if you feel you have to do it for hours and hours to raid. And never was important in vanilla wow.

 

Not farming consumables in Vanilla WoW? Are you on drugs? You didnt do anything else once you started raiding than farm herbs, mats or what not. What Vanilla WoW did you play?

You needed a high ammount og Fire res pots for MC/BWL, Elixirs, Flasks, mana pots, HP pots, Nature res for AQ40, Frost Res for Naxx ( if you got that far )

I almost forgot runes...

You seem deluded of what Vanilla WoW was really like.

Edited February 3, 2012 by Xivez