Commando healers, really Bioware?

[thomasdr]

The thing that disturbs me the most about this video is the huge dmg output in his healspec. *faceplam* at 9:20 he deals nearly 8k dmg burstdmg to an enemy player in what? 1,4 seconds? heck my highest crits when healspecced is around 2k.. and i run around in 600+ expertise champ gear.

 

Yes his enemys are terrible and he has a pocket tank with him, but his armor absorbs quite an amount of burstdmg on him. Healers rarely die due to dps, they die because of burst, and he nearly never takes any hits above 2k dmg. If i think about it he takes about half as much dmg from any ability i recognized in this video than i would take...

 

I'm shoked. I knew commandos played right were strong but THIS strong?

 

 

Double Expertise, adrenals, low levels.

Not saying bodyguard merc burst isn't good, it is but those numbers aren't reachable anymore. The highest crit I've had since 50's warzones is around 3.3k. For reaching 2.5k medal I need to use my 10% dps cooldown, relic, adrenal and hit a low armor low expertise target.

[Grimyd]

Bm Scoundrel here, I usually roll with a bm vanguard/commando and a Bm Sage. There isn't any one target a combination of two of us can't burn down.

[Jooji]

Anyone else noticed how completely impossible it is for 2-3 people to kill a good geared Commando healer? Heavy armor

Most damage bypasses armor. Only basic attacks are white, thus only basic attacks are mitigated properly by our heavy armor.

 

defensive cd's

ONE defensive cd. And it's only 25% damage, and on a 2-minute CD. If you had a brain it would tell you to switch to someone else while this CD is up.

 

uninterruptable cd

Once again, it's part of the reactive shield. You get off the merc/trooper and CC him after he pops this.

 

instant healing etc etc etc.

I'd love to know what the "etc etc etc" is for because merc/troopers only have 2 instants and both are pathetic. Bacta infusion is on an 18-second cd and hits weaker than our base heal. Our aoe heal hits for <1k non-crit.

 

 

This entire class is a freaking gimmick, just horrible how you can actually put this in your game. Even if you by some accident manage to interrupt 3 of their heals in a row, with 2-3 people hitting them, they will have lost aproximately 20-40% hp in that time.

Sounds to me like you and 2 of your other fresh 50 buddies attempted to kill a full champ or BM geared healer. Do you really expect to kill a healer that completely out-gears you?

 

As a full champion geared trooper I can get solo killed by a good, geared operative, merc, or marauder. To survive I have to kite, los, pillar hump, etc, and even then I have to put a lot more work into my survival than they have to put into killing me, AND during all that I'm not healing anyone else so I'm essentially neutered.

 

Anyway, that's my whine, now to my question. How do you intend to adress this?

Here's how they're going to address this problem. They're going to tell you to get some real gear, to L2p, and last but not least, to L2p.

[Xaradus]

Its hard to Kill healers if you don't kick there heals...

[sang]

With an AoE CC and a vanish why wouldn't you be?

 

AoE CC breaks on damage, is on a minute CD, and requires you to be in 10m range to cast.

 

Vanish breaks on any DoT or AoE damage, and most importantly, its on a 3 minute cooldown. 3 minutes in a WZ is forever, making it a very costly escape. Op healers also can rarely use normal stealth out of combat as our HoTs continually put us in combat.

Edited February 3, 2012 by sang

[raelimar]

You realize that Commandos are arguably the weakest of the three healers, right?

[EternalFinality]

Both Sorcs and Mercs when geared are impossible to kill with just one person. Sorcs have a near infinite amount of escapes and Mercs are just too hardy.

[Fubik]

Imo healers should be kinda hard to kill and defently a guarded one.

 

If healers would die fast to 1 dps what would be the point of using healers in group vs group? Just live with it. The only way to make group vs gpr PvP work without there being INSANE amount of CC/roots spammable is to make healers slightly OPed

[byteresistor]

Most damage bypasses armor. Only basic attacks are white, thus only basic attacks are mitigated properly by our heavy armor.

Wrong. For example a lot of sorcerer damage consists of energy damage, and if you mouse over the armor value on your character sheet you can clearly see that energy damage is migitated by armor.

 

White/yellow dmage has nothing to do with whether it ignores armor or not. It means whether your attack is done with a weapon or not as far as I can tell. All sorcerer damage is yellow because none of their abilities attacks with a weapon, whereas for example marauders' melee attacks deal white damage while force scream does yellow damage (because it's not a weapon attack).

 

I think you're confusing the mechanics of this game to some other game. Different game, different mechanics. Just because a spell in some other game ignores armor doesn't mean the same mechanic has to apply to every other game.

Edited February 3, 2012 by byteresistor

[Crowleyz]

As a full champion geared trooper I can get solo killed by a good, geared operative, merc, or marauder.

 

L2p.

 

That is basically the only line I read of this post, it pretty much says all that needs to be said.

[Mirdthestrill]

Anyone else noticed how completely impossible it is for 2-3 people to kill a good geared Commando healer? Heavy armor, defensive cd's, uninterruptable cd, instant healing etc etc etc.

 

What is the point of this? Are you just trying to mock people? Hitting them for 90, 100 and then my biggest attacks CRITS for 500. In the meanwhile they are able to heal about 5-10 times that.

 

This entire class is a freaking gimmick, just horrible how you can actually put this in your game. Even if you by some accident manage to interrupt 3 of their heals in a row, with 2-3 people hitting them, they will have lost aproximately 20-40% hp in that time.

 

Anyway, that's my whine, now to my question. How do you intend to adress this?

 

MWAHAHAHA I knew I should respec to Combat Medic.

[Crowleyz]

Updated the OP to hopefully promote discussion and reduce the anger and hatred I receive

 

 

Most damage bypasses armor. Only basic attacks are white, thus only basic attacks are mitigated properly by our heavy armor.

 

Ok so... What?. Honestly? Have you ever moused over "Armor" in the character screen? Kinetic and Energy. Which is basically the entire arsenal of an Assassin for example. We have discharge which do internal damage, and nothing mitigates internal damage except cd's, so that's the only attack we have that doesn't do pathetic damage on them(provided we are using Surging Charge or Dark Charge). You might want to actually glance at other classes before making statements like this.

Edited February 3, 2012 by Crowleyz

[MoonsLightV]

I agree with the OP, commandos are terribly OP and they need a nerf badly. In PVP WZ's, nothing is worse then having a Republic team with 3 or 4 of these guys spamming grav round, using a fire attack that does waaaay too much damage, and then each of them healing instantly not only each other, but their other team mates making them IMPOSSIBLE to kill.

On Ilum one time there were 2 commandos at center and it took FOUR imperials to bring them down, and this included an assassin, a juggernaut, a merc, and a sorcerer.

Commandos have knockbacks, stuns, healing, and long ranged DPS AND they have heavy armor, give me a break.

[KilllerRock]

anyone who says they can kill a BH/Trooper healer in 20 seconds is lying. I can interupt their first heal, make them bubble, 3 sec stun them through the bubble when they try to 2nd heal, force leap them for a 1 sec stun on their 3rd heal, and the bubble is still up and i cant kick the 4th heal, but i hit them with crippling throw to make it heal them for 20% less. Then it wears off and i kick and usually they get 1 more heal through as my other sh*t is still all on CD, and then eventually i wear them down.

 

But it is not a 20 second process, its like 30-40 seconds which you will rarely have that long to try and solo someone be it ilum or a WZ. So my new strat is just play them like a paladin, beat on em till they pop their bubble, then leave them be and attack someone else till it wears off, because fighting them through the bubble is not worth the hassle.

[Scoobings]

anyone who says they can kill a BH/Trooper healer in 20 seconds is lying. I can interupt their first heal, make them bubble, 3 sec stun them through the bubble when they try to 2nd heal, force leap them for a 1 sec stun on their 3rd heal, and the bubble is still up and i cant kick the 4th heal, but i hit them with crippling throw to make it heal them for 20% less. Then it wears off and i kick and usually they get 1 more heal through as my other sh*t is still all on CD, and then eventually i wear them down.

 

But it is not a 20 second process, its like 30-40 seconds which you will rarely have that long to try and solo someone be it ilum or a WZ. So my new strat is just play them like a paladin, beat on em till they pop their bubble, then leave them be and attack someone else till it wears off, because fighting them through the bubble is not worth the hassle.

 

Yeah that's what I have started to do now too. Not much you can do about it but if you put enough pressure on them at least they aren't healing someone else right? Oh yeah, and I don't believe the bubble makes them immune to stuns so I usually save my stuns for when the bubble goes up.

 

In a 1v1 dueling situation though they seem pretty cake. Just overheat them and profit, since they lack strong hots.

Edited February 3, 2012 by Scoobings

[Astarica]

You can fight a Commando until they bubble, but at that point they might as well be invulnerable.

 

Note that damage reduction effects are additive in this game. A geared Commando has 30% mitigation base, +10% from Grav Round procs, and energy shield is 25%. This gives a staggering 65% mitigation and it's not unsuual to see Execute attacks hit for 500 damage against a bubbled Commando.

 

Energy Shield lasts at least 12s (longer with set bonus), and stun is only 4 seconds. You can't interrupt them while they've Energy Shield (if they speced right).

 

By the way, Grav Round procs + Energy Shield = 35% versus internal and elemental, 45% if they've the SI/JC class buff on, which is much higher than any other class's mitigation versus those attacks too.

 

The Grav Round procs and bubble should be multiplicative effect, not additive. 30% + 10% + 25% = 65% damage reduced, but (0.7 * 0.9 * 0.75) = 52% damage reduced, and relatively speaking the latter is taking 35% more damage compared to the former.

[Kyritex]

I have a Commando healer.. and 65% the time no one even interrupts me casting anything, ever.

 

Marauders can do well, ranged can take me down in open field but if I have LOS not so much.

 

We don't have the combat res/force speed/ pull that Sages do so comparing straight survivability -- we should survive longer.. otherwise *** is the point in being a commando/merc healer.

[Panzerbase]

This is the strategy one of these guys used in Voidstar, he was forward of the door about 15 meters looking right at it. When anyone or any group attacked him he didn't do anything but heal himself right though anything that was tossed his way, this game is horrible beyond belief. He don't turn move or anything just stood there waiting for a bomb plant, he basically shut down an entire side until help arrived at their leisure. And if you can't see how OP'd that is you are freaking stupid.

 

 

I have no idea what they think they're doing in terms of pvp but it's an absolute failure.

Edited February 3, 2012 by Panzerbase

[Kyritex]

This is the strategy one of these guys used in Voidstar, he was forward of the door about 15 meters looking right at it. When anyone or any group attacked him he didn't but and healed himself right though anything that was tossed his way, this game is horrible beyond belief. He don't turn move or anything just stood there waiting for a bomb plant, he basically shut down an entire side until help arrived at their leisure. And if you can't see how OP'd that is you are freaking stupid.

 

 

I have no idea what they think they're doing in terms of pvp but it's an absolute failure.

 

He must be BM and you're team terrible.. because that just doesn't happen.

[Scoobings]

This is the strategy one of these guys used in Voidstar, he was forward of the door about 15 meters looking right at it. When anyone or any group attacked him he didn't do anything but heal himself right though anything that was tossed his way, this game is horrible beyond belief. He don't turn move or anything just stood there waiting for a bomb plant, he basically shut down an entire side until help arrived at their leisure. And if you can't see how OP'd that is you are freaking stupid.

 

 

I have no idea what they think they're doing in terms of pvp but it's an absolute failure.

 

Lol, your team isn't very good if one healer stayed alive in a 8v1. I don't even know how that would be even be possible even if all you guys did was auto attack and he had infinite heat.

 

Pretty epic fail on your part.

[Scoobings]

He must be BM and you're team terrible.. because that just doesn't happen.

 

Quick question because I think I read somewhere you're a Commando/Merc healer. Don't they only have one heal that doesn't have a cooldown?

 

Would you mind being so kind as to tell me what move that is? That's the one we need to be interrupting.

[schwiz]

I would argue its harder to kill a sage/sorc

[fungihoujo]

Is any class not OP? Have we missed calling for nerfs for any class? No? Silly BW, making every single class OP, shame on them.

[Soulcheg]

I agree with the OP, commandos are terribly OP and they need a nerf badly. In PVP WZ's, nothing is worse then having a Republic team with 3 or 4 of these guys spamming grav round, using a fire attack that does waaaay too much damage, and then each of them healing instantly not only each other, but their other team mates making them IMPOSSIBLE to kill.

On Ilum one time there were 2 commandos at center and it took FOUR imperials to bring them down, and this included an assassin, a juggernaut, a merc, and a sorcerer.

Commandos have knockbacks, stuns, healing, and long ranged DPS AND they have heavy armor, give me a break.

Maradeurs and sentinels/juggernauts and guardians are teriibly OP, they have 2 swords/1 very sharp sword, decent DPC, tons of HP, they can jump to enemy and stuns him, then they can force push you and jump and stun again and again, they can turn on skill, which gives them almost full invincibility, and i hit them for 10-12 damage!!!!

 

 

Sorcs and sages are terribly OP, they have absorb shield for thousands hp, they have biggest healing in game, biggest dps in game, they have so much abilities, and they can force run from you if something goes wrong!!!!

 

 

Operatives and scoundrels/shadow and assassins are terribly OP, i can't see them while they invisible, they strike me right in my back, hitting me for 1/3 of my hp per hit!!!!!!

 

 

 

 

 

Jesus:tran_eek:

Edited February 4, 2012 by Soulcheg

[Jooji]

Updated the OP to hopefully promote discussion and reduce the anger and hatred I receive

 

 

 

 

Ok so... What?. Honestly? Have you ever moused over "Armor" in the character screen? Kinetic and Energy. Which is basically the entire arsenal of an Assassin for example. We have discharge which do internal damage, and nothing mitigates internal damage except cd's, so that's the only attack we have that doesn't do pathetic damage on them(provided we are using Surging Charge or Dark Charge). You might want to actually glance at other classes before making statements like this.

 

OK so I was wrong about the armor thing. Why don't you address the rest of my first post?

 

As I already said, you should get off the trooper immediately when he pops reactive shield and CC him. Once it's over get 2 melee back on him, separate him from his guard, and he'll melt.

 

Your problem is you're assuming because you have trouble with one class it means the class is OP. I struggle with good marauders and operatives(even post nerf). Does that mean they're OP? No. If one real good melee stays on me it forces me to heal myself and kite instead of healing others. Even if you don't kill me you're greatly reducing my effectiveness as a healer. If you're able to isolate me from my team or force me to pillar out of LOS of my team then you're doing more than you think. It isn't always about killing the healer.

Edited February 4, 2012 by Jooji