Traumahawk Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 But in a video game, I should be having fun right? I can feel your hatred. You are scaring the children. That's the point I'm trying to make. Who doesn't want to reduce loading screens in favor of something more immersive or realistic? And Bioware is smart enough (they ARE good game designers after all) to know that it's a huge issue. For whatever technical reasons, they haven't resolved it yet. So the argument isn't against the game, it's simple a disbelief that there are people that want it to stay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surakis Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 (edited) Loading screens are elements we try to reduce in number, not increase. Make sense now? Backpedaling now, eh? Do you even know why some games use loading screens? What benefit it offers over background loading? Edited February 5, 2012 by Surakis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOuija Posted February 5, 2012 Author Share Posted February 5, 2012 Is it the load screens or the steps, you can't seem to keep focused on what you really hate. But hey, it's odd that time comes up over and over and over... Get your talking points out, you folks aren't on the same page! Does it matter? For the record, yes - we are on the same page: It's effing annoying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kennkra Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 The problem is that u have to be actualy doing that stuff, its not like you can go to the wc or alt-tab you have to be cliking your way and starin at loadin screens all the time. To all that says immersion, 1-2 months from now you are going to QQ i you WILL hate that immersion. Just give us a way to travel that doesnt involve cliking, runing and cliking and runing like 15 times Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surakis Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Does it matter? For the record, yes - we are on the same page: It's effing annoying. It does matter. It's like playing wack-a-mole, you smash one lames complaint down and another pops up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surakis Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 The problem is that u have to be actualy doing that stuff, its not like you can go to the wc or alt-tab you have to be cliking your way and starin at loadin screens all the time. To all that says immersion, 1-2 months from now you are going to QQ i you WILL hate that immersion. Just give us a way to travel that doesnt involve cliking, runing and cliking and runing like 15 times Because gameplay where you don't have to even be at the keyboard is so much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOuija Posted February 5, 2012 Author Share Posted February 5, 2012 (edited) I can feel your hatred. You are scaring the children. That's the point I'm trying to make. Who doesn't want to reduce loading screens in favor of something more immersive or realistic? And Bioware is smart enough (they ARE good game designers after all) to know that it's a huge issue. For whatever technical reasons, they haven't resolved it yet. So the argument isn't against the game, it's simple a disbelief that there are people that want it to stay. You raise good and valid points, Traumahawk. But I would like to argue that the term "design" covers more than just cool features, nice animations and a good story line. It also covers the function of said game, how everything inside the game synergizes with itself. Many of these features do not seem to function well with eathother and, for many, creates a frustrating environment. To wrap it up I'd say: The game has nice features, but the design in many of them is flawed. Because gameplay where you don't have to even be at the keyboard is so much better. Yes. In this case it is. If I want immersion; I can stay and watch the cinematics and the traveling. If I don't, I could either space-bar through it all or leave the keyboard, get a drink and get back when it's done. I bet you've never skipped through a single conversation, am I right? I know how you love "immersion" and all. It does matter. It's like playing wack-a-mole, you smash one lames complaint down and another pops up. Really? That's what you think you're doing? You're just spouting out nonsense, kiddo. Some people can't be bothered to argue or even read your comments. It does not mean you're smashing anything. Edited February 5, 2012 by MrOuija Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traumahawk Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Backpedaling now, eh? Do you even know why some games use loading screens? What benefit it offers over background loading? Nope, not backpedaling. Clarifying since you didn't quote the second part of the post I made. I am very well aware of the function of loading screens. Argument isn't about their complete removal, it's about the abundance of them between point A and B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Because gameplay where you don't have to even be at the keyboard is so much better. Loading Screens are "gameplay" now? Really? You honestly and truly believe that? :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shingara Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 14. Wait for loading screen (1-2 minutes depending on performance) Did you say 1-2 mins depending on performace oO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 The problem is that u have to be actualy doing that stuff, its not like you can go to the wc or alt-tab you have to be cliking your way and starin at loadin screens all the time. To all that says immersion, 1-2 months from now you are going to QQ i you WILL hate that immersion. Just give us a way to travel that doesnt involve cliking, runing and cliking and runing like 15 times That's the problem, something that is fine once, isn't necessarily fine on the 100th time. The running itself would be a bit annoying given time, but when you stick a couple of loading screens in there it just becomes aggravating much more quickly (and the longer your loading screen are the quicker it becomes aggravating). I've never seen anything quite like it in an MMO or any sort (RPG or otherwise), even EQ1, getting through their main travel nexus there was less staring at loading screens (at least 50% less IIRC). I understand why they did it (it's an artefact of their story process), but equally the goal now had to be reducing the number & duration of loading screen wherever possible AND allowing players to avoid them altogether if it's the 100th time they are passing that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansultares Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Why? Because they needed something to pad the leveling times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traumahawk Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 That's the problem, something that is fine once, isn't necessarily fine on the 100th time. The running itself would be a bit annoying given time, but when you stick a couple of loading screens in there it just becomes aggravating much more quickly (and the longer your loading screen are the quicker it becomes aggravating). I've never seen anything quite like it in an MMO or any sort (RPG or otherwise), even EQ1, getting through their main travel nexus there was less staring at loading screens (at least 50% less IIRC). I understand why they did it (it's an artefact of their story process), but equally the goal now had to be reducing the number & duration of loading screen wherever possible AND allowing players to avoid them altogether if it's the 100th time they are passing that way. By introducing holocalls in place of some of the "Speak with" quests for instance. Maybe that would be a viable solution. But it still may be an annoyance for the level 50's that want to travel to various planets to engage in PvP activities or farm datacrons and crafting mats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artthen Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 (edited) Hello everyone! Several posts have been removed from this thread for straying off-topic. As you continue to participate in this thread, please remember to heed the Rules of Conduct. As a general reminder: Insults - Please do not resort to or use them in any way in your posts. Posts should be productive, not destructive.Trolling - Please do not post messages that are purposefully designed to provoke, antagonize, or otherwise elicit a negative emotional response.Agree to Disagree - Be respectful of others' viewpoints even if they are opposite of your own. Discuss disagreements constructively.Flag, Don't Fight - Utilize the Flag Post feature to report possible rules violations, rather than responding to or fighting them.Thanks for your cooperation! Edited February 5, 2012 by Artthen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Zorth_ Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 BioWare's way of making the game "huge".. Eff the immersion, hate it.. It's not immersion by looking at a loading screen and listening to the stupid ship droid, Just allow us to land on planets and this will all be fixed.. Actually no, Make it an option.. For those that want to stare at loading screens and call it immersion can do that, but those that are sick of it should be able to skip it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gehoornde Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 actually no, make it an option.. For those that want to stare at loading screens and call it immersion can do that, but those that are sick of it should be able to skip it. ^this^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chomag Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 This reply is loading... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOuija Posted February 5, 2012 Author Share Posted February 5, 2012 (edited) This reply is loading... Been waiting for like 30 minutes now... It's so annoying! Edited February 5, 2012 by MrOuija Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xaehl Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Goal: Goto Fleet Step 1: Open Inventory Step 2: Click on stack of Fleet passes (Useable every 30 minutes) Steo 3: Arrive at Fleet and Use airlock Time spent: 1 minute and 14 seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goreson Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Goal: Get to Republic Fleet. Steps: 1. Find Shuttle 2. Chose Orbital Station 3. Wait for the loading screen to complete 4. Run through Orbital Station (1~ minute of running) 5. Click Elevator, Chose Airlock 6. Wait for scenery change (10 seconds) 7. Run to Class Airlock Room (1~ minute of running) 8. Enter Space Ship 9. Wait for loading (20~ seconds) 10. Run up to the Galaxy Map inside your ship. (5-10 seconds) 11. Click Fleet 12. Wait for scenery change 13. Run down to ship exit, click door. 14. Wait for loading screen (1-2 minutes depending on performance) 15. Arrive at Fleet 16. Do your business. 16 Steps? Really necessary? This whole process takes like 10-15 minutes or even more, depending whether or not you're close to a shuttle, assuming you even know where the closest one is. Get your **** together. We don't like _pointless_ traveling like this. This is NOT our idea of fun. The answer to your subject question 'Shuttle? Orbital Station? Airlock? Class Airlock? WHY?!' is that none of all these other thread on very much exactly the same topic have made BW change anything! Why? Maybe because people just fail to understand the concept of a discussion versus a suggestion? Every single thread on this topic that I've come across here in General Discussions (as opposed to Suggestion Box) ends up being nothing but a firefight between 2 entrenched sides, those claiming that something is wrong with the travel system and it needs to be changed NOW (or they'll just leave the game because it sucks) and those who state that they don't have a problem with the current system and the other side should suck it up and get better PCs. Guess what: I support the second side, those who don't have a problem with the travel system. Because quite frankly nobody here has actually (as far as I can see) come up with a better solution! There have been suggestions like automated travel instead of manual travel, instant travel to the ship and just about anywhere, taking out steps (orbital stations, airlocks in spaceports (because for **** sake many of your frigging 'elevators' are not elevators!), even hangars), removing loading screens... and pretty much none of these suggestion makes too much sense: most orbital stations are there for a reason (please, everybody point towards Hoth NOW!) If I don't have a hangar, why even give the ship a shape? Because there are some space missions in game? (Could be changed to FPS style = not seeing ship) Because BW put those ship designs on the SWTOR website? Because you see the ship start in those cutscenes (that everybody skips after the first time anyways)? And yes, for Pete's sake if you've ever been to an airport you'll know that there are restricted areas (including access thru the boarding gate!) to keep morons and little children out of places were they shouldn't be. Therefore airlocks with blast doors! Instant travel is a dead horse, seriously! Or would you care to explain why I should have to spend 5 min staring at scenary racing by to just taxi from one outpost to the other when I'm out of QT but can always, from anywhere just 'teleport' to another planet? (oh, wait, the 'exceptions': you have to do it from the spaceport (wait, why can't my droid pick me up with the ship wherever I want?), you can only do so so often based on a CD system (darn, so I went to help a friend in PvP via 'teleport' and now I'm stuck here waiting 1 hr before I can 'teleport' back to where I was again? Don't even suggest going thru that stupid travel system where I have to go to the spaceport, thru the spaceport, thru the blast door, thru the hangar, into the ship's airlock, wait for loading/custscenes, go to cockpit, select galaxy map, etc. because I'm way too lazy for all those steps), etc. Because hey, why stop at interplanetary travel? there shouldn't really be a problem instant travelling to any quest area! I mean who likes to sit in a taxi for 5 min going to the outpost closest to the quest area AND THEN STILL HAS TO RUN/SPEEDER ONWARDS FOR ANOTHER 5 MIN? QT points or taxi stands inside your spaceship... right, some people really love that concept... now, with the QT point what do you actually gain? about 1 min? Because frankly, not counting the loading screen I bet you that straight travel from the current QT point closest to your ship to the ship in the hangar it takes hardly ever more than 1 min of running/speedering. (But oh, wait, you actually don't have to manually control your 'toon' to guide him there, right? well, congrats you are lazy!) Taxi stands... ha! Okay, let's go with the basic concept of a taxi: it's a ride for hire, that's why you pay for it (in case you haven't noticed: yes in SWTOR as well!), it's not your personal vehicle that you just pull out of your ship's arse. So you either have to leave the ship and access a taxi stand inside the hangar or you create a fancy sequence that as soon as you touch the airlock you get presented with different choices (take taxi to other taxi stand (select from available destinations), enter hangar, go back into ship) followed then by of course the out of sequence landing cutscene or now a few cutscenes of the ship approching the planet, you walking out of the ship, you going to the taxi stand located inside the hangar, you jumping into the taxi and flying off. Oh wait, I forgot to put the planetary loading screen in there... anyways, those cutscenes you have to abort either thru setting the option in 'Preferences' or by manually spacebar'ing. Right, now we are flying... but hey, guess what, we actually have to leave our taxi ride instance to join the rest of the world! Maybe there should be a transition screen? And on the way back your taxi obviously also just drops into an instance followed by similar cutscenes and ship interior loading screen. Your gain is what? Still maybe around 1 min... probably less if you fail to have cutscenes auto-skipped. Now, let's go to the 'taxi stand outside the ship, in the hangar' option. You still have to go to ship's airlock, get the loading screen, rush down the ramp, run to taxi stand in hangar. Compared to the same track going to the spaceport's blastdoor instead you are saving what? 10 secs? Woohoo! But you still have to manually control him. Hissssss! Right, you get into your taxi and take off... but wait, here is a question: is the taxi stand instanced or not? Let's go with instanced... just as before your taxi would have to drop into the world somewhere... possible transition screen... oh, and I forgot to mention the fact that of course the taxi now needs to follow the established taxi rail system (ever noticed that you actually sometimes have to taxi via a huge detour to get to a taxi stand? Yeah, it's because that taxi stand is not on the rail that you are currently on.) Which means you are first going from the ship's/hangar's taxi stand to the local taxi stand. Given that the hangars are not really facing towards the city but rather way from it, well, that rail from the hangar to the taxi stand should only be something like 10 - 30 seconds. No problem, as the travel is automated. Hm... same obviously for the way back: follow rail towards hangar, drop into instance, land in your hangar, run 'toon' up to ship, up ramp, touch airlock, loading screen and cutscenes. But what if the taxi stand wasn't instanced? Now that would be fun! Ship's airlock, planetary loading sceen, run down ramp, into hangar filled with other 'toons' using this same hangar... oh, wait, that is why the hangar is now up to 6 times the size because it potentially may have to house all 6 ships. But hey, in most cases it will of course only be 3 times as it would really only be the ships of one faction. But on a truly neutral spaceport? Hey, guess what on such a truly neutral spaceport, you could potentially declare it as a contested zone so you could just camp all the landing Imps/Peps. Just watch out not to get too close to those guards, because obviously they are hostile to either faction: wouldn't want any Imp or Rep putting a laser burn on some wall, would we?! But nah, for now let's stick with faction spaceports. So, now the taxi stand obviously needs to be placed so that it can be equally well accessed from all 3 ships (wouldn't want any Sith crying that the IA is playing his 'Bond, Jawa Bond' card so that the taxi stand is right next to his ship but miles from the Fury...), so, oops, you now actually have to run 5 secs further than with the instanced taxi stand but there are all those other 'toons' around you can wave to. Cool! Wait, other 'toons'? Hm... that would explain why some other smuggler was running up the ramp to my ship when I was running down. Well, I'll be damned, he is stealing my ship! Well, okay, his instance of my ship! Bastard! Oh well, at least I still haven't lost the 'immersion' as I would when I have to pass thru the hangar's blast door, get a transition screen (because BW couldn't be bothered to include the animations for doors actually opening) and then running through the spaceport's concourse system to the exit/entrance. Oh, wait, I'm actually on a low pop planet on the low faction side... so I'm standing here all alone in this huge hangar full of ships with some of the classes actually not present right now on my planet... well, at least hearing my echoechoechoechoecho still doesn't break the 'immersion' as having to pass thru the hangar's blast door, get a transition screen and then running through the spaceport's concourse system to the exit/entrance would have. Yes, we should demand that BW drop everything rightaway and get to work on changing the whole spaceport/hangar design because maybe, potentially 1 sec could be saved and the travel would be automated for those lazy arse gamers who can't actually auto-run for 2 (two) not even 30 sec long periods inside the spaceport and hangar. Or maybe we shouldn't... Oh, wait... did I once more forget about the loading screens? Bad Goreson, bad! Yeah, let's get rid of 'em... so, let's see: a loading screen is there for loading a new location (and for anybody claiming that a transition screen is a loading screen, get your facts straight!), which means loading up new content. Hm... I got it! We'll have the game load up everything, every place you may go to at the start of the game. I'm sure nobody here would mind waiting some 30 min for all planets, orbital stations. fleet to be preloaded... only then to have your game crash because there just isn't enough memory available on your ******, non-highend system with less than 16 Gig of RAM... oh darn... hm... I guess the game will become completely unplayable for about 95% of all people playing the game. Can you say drop from 2 mio subscriptions to 10,000 after just 1 update? Well done you lot! And while the game is unplayable to most and they still have an active subscription obviously they will flame BW here because they broke the game. And all BW can say is 'Well, err, we listened to you, the gamers, or some of you, who didn't want any loading screens during the game... err...' Bravo! Yes, this was a rant, yes, it will not be understood by all those 'smart' people coming up with 'great' ideas on how to change the world (of SWTOR that is). Frankly, I should probably say I couldn't care less... but the thing is actually that I don't really have to because as long as you don't understand the system, you will not change it. Over and out! (p.s. there is actually a hint in my post how to ge rid of a good chunk of those transition screens, can you find it?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archfiend Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 I remember in beta when they added the hangers to fleet. it was so nice before: click any of the "hanger doors" load right into your ship... I must say I also enjoy the quests that send me to fleet to "talk" to someone. I click on them and then get to travel to another planet....really? I travel to fleet as a way-point? just to click on someone? for no reason? more travel time sinks in this game than anything I have ever seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goretzu Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 I remember in beta when they added the hangers to fleet. it was so nice before: click any of the "hanger doors" load right into your ship... I must say I also enjoy the quests that send me to fleet to "talk" to someone. I click on them and then get to travel to another planet....really? I travel to fleet as a way-point? just to click on someone? for no reason? more travel time sinks in this game than anything I have ever seen. I wonder if a "quick" travel option like that would be possible to put back in, not for story arcs of course, but for times when you really want to get there quickly. If you could taxi straight into your ship at one end and click straight to your ship at the other, things would be much quicker and less waiting around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrOuija Posted February 5, 2012 Author Share Posted February 5, 2012 Hm... I got it! We'll have the game load up everything, every place you may go to at the start of the game. I'm sure nobody here would mind waiting some 30 min for all planets, orbital stations. fleet to be preloaded... only then to have your game crash because there just isn't enough memory available on your ******, non-highend system with less than 16 Gig of RAM... oh darn... hm... I guess the game will become completely unplayable for about 95% of all people playing the game. Can you say drop from 2 mio subscriptions to 10,000 after just 1 update? Well done you lot! And while the game is unplayable to most and they still have an active subscription obviously they will flame BW here because they broke the game. And all BW can say is 'Well, err, we listened to you, the gamers, or some of you, who didn't want any loading screens during the game... err...' This is preposterous and I hope that you're being sarcastic here. No where have I ever suggested this, and no way would they every implement this. If you're trying to diminish my points of discussion then bravo - I'm sure fanboys will lol with you at your wall-of-text post, nodding their heads in agreement. Your post is 70% nonsense, much alike some of the so called "features" in this game, which is ironically fitting. That said, I read your entire post and commend your resolve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeami Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 My wife came up to me yesterday and said, "why doesn't your ship just land on the planet"? I didn't have a good answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeami Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Now that I think of it, they would have to change a TON of story. After taking two toons to 50, I realize how many cut scenes are in an airlock on belsavis or in a hanger on nar shadaa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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