Chiss as a playable race?

[Kaskava]

I know the Lore of this game matches Lucas cannon, so I'm curious how the game managed to use the Chiss as a playable race in this game. In the book "Outbound Flight" the Chiss Ascendancy was first discovered in the Outer Regions by accident. Nobody had ever seen or heard of them before this, and this book took place when Anakin was a Padawan. How does the game explain the existence of the race well before that?

 

The survivors of the Great Hyperspace War found the Chiss randomly. The standard Sith response when dealing with alien races is to demand that they submit to the Empire, or die. Most had chosen death. The Chiss confused everyone by agreeing to meet with the Imperials.

 

Some stuff happened, and the Imperials came back out, declaring that the Chiss were cool, that they would help out the refugees and, in exchange, the Empire would keep the hell out.

 

Since then, the Ascendancy has kept to itself, with only a few families leaving Scillia (Bounty Hunter explanation) and a few other individuals joining the Imperial military.

 

Now, since the Sith had the largest database on the Chiss outside of the Ascendancy itself, it feasible that, with the Empire's fall, things got lost. It wouldn't be surprising if the Chiss helped out some what with the "loss" of this data, to keep their little corner of the galaxy the hell away from everyone else.

[iain_b]

Uh, who cares?

 

This is the "Story and Lore" forum. If you don't care about either why are you even in here? Go troll someplace else.

[Narien]

Now, since the Sith had the largest database on the Chiss outside of the Ascendancy itself, it feasible that, with the Empire's fall, things got lost. It wouldn't be surprising if the Chiss helped out some what with the "loss" of this data, to keep their little corner of the galaxy the hell away from everyone else.

 

Given how xenophobic and isolationist the Chiss are, that's a somewhat contrived, but very realistic possibility.

 

A group that spends thousands of years learning to hide from the galaxy at large usually tends to get pretty good at it.

[DarthValmar]

I think we can all agree that Lucas has no problem breaking his own rules.

 

Lucas? please. Lucas probablyu doesn't even know who Revan is.

[Slurpeeman]

You just put in word for word exactly what I asked during the stress test. The answer I was given was this :

 

A lot of information was lost in between this game and when Outbound Flight happened. The issue is that all of the information was lost on the Chiss and when they found them again that they were all like, "Oh sup, we dont know who you are!"

 

Here's my problem with this. Are they trying to say that both the Chiss and the Republic AND the Imperials lost ALL information on the Chiss in between when this game happened and when that book was published?

 

I call B.S. on this.

 

+1

 

I love this game but Thanks a lot [whoevers responsible] your ruining a great part of star wars lore, and I think you suck

[AlyxDinas]

Lucas? please. Lucas probablyu doesn't even know who Revan is.

 

Lucas, if I recall, looked over potential scenes where Bane and Revan were going to appear in the Mortis Trilogy of the Clone Wars television series. Those scenes were eventually cut though.

 

 

More to the topic: Chiss exposure to the Republic, even in this time, seems fairly limited. Not as widespread as many other species galavanting about known space. History also has the benefit of a great deal of time between this period and the time of Outbound Flight where the Chiss enter into almost complete complete isolation besides some contact with Lord Kann's Brotherhood of Darkness.

 

Which brings me to the most important thing: the Dark Ages. By the time of the New Sith Wars/Draggulch Period, the Republic's infrastructure gets hit hard and a whole lot of knowledge and technology is lost.

 

Think of it this way, the Chiss ally with the Empire. Empire eventually fades out and the Chiss, not exactly having the best initial foray into galactic politics, retreat into isolation for a few thousand years in which no one is seeing them, talking about them, and better yet, general knowledge and communication is all but wiped out.

 

Here's my problem with this. Are they trying to say that both the Chiss and the Republic AND the Imperials lost ALL information on the Chiss in between when this game happened and when that book was published?

 

I call B.S. on this.

 

I'd say it's far more likely that the high ranking Syndics and Aristocra ordered that the relevant information be purged for the protection of the Ascendancy. "We have always been at war with Eastasia" style.

 

Accounting for the Empire losing the information is pretty easy, actually. By some point, there is no more Sith Empire. It's either all buy destroyed or consumed by the Republic. In the former case, the information doesn't matter because the Empire is gone, in the latter case the information is taken by the Republic and lost in the Dark Ages.

Edited December 17, 2011 by AlyxDinas

[HalcyonicPlague]

This is probably the only great inconsistency that I know of in TOR (not to say it is the only one, just the largest) in how it relates to SW canon.

 

I think that what BioWare has put forward as their explanation is honestly the only reasonable one you can work with. If they are hellbent on putting Chiss in then... the best they can do is honestly explain it away as things got lost over time. Put it out as... during Malgus' expeditions into the unknown regions (my chronology for TOR is not solid, forgive me, this may come later) or during something similar contact was made. A relationship was formed at one of those times. The Chiss, to me, do not appear to be members of the Empire but instead are allies who are offering some of their members. This is why on Balmorra the death of one of their ambassadors is a big deal.

 

Sometime after this war, potentially even because they participated in this war, they become so reclusive that they essentially are unknown to the galaxy. Living in the unknown regions for 2000 years would significantly help that. If they were only offering agents and ambassador's in this war then really the Republic (the eventual victor) would have limited experience with them outside of occasional ones, and they would just know that they exist. And as time continues to pass, 2000 years worth, the information on them begins to slip even more. They become more of a myth.

 

Not every race is well recorded in SW as is. Look at many of the books, "new" races are always being found that virtually no information really exists on. Vergere shows up and they think she is a Vong creation. She comes from the main galaxy and is part of a race there, was even a member of the Jedi order, but when she comes again to the galaxy, the galaxy has practically no knowledge of what she is. That is only... 80 years~ that she is gone from the galaxy and all knowledge of her race is just gone? I mean, the Jedi had to have found her somehow.

 

Zanoma Sekot was considered a myth but had just enough information surrounding it that they went after it on a hunch.

 

If the Jedi Archives can lose information on a planet (Kamino) because of one Sith removing it (or Jedi, do they attribute that to Sifo Dyas now?) then why could all practical knowledge of the Chiss not disappear over 2000 years, ESPECIALLY if they are trying to make themselves not exist.

 

 

 

While unlikely. It is possible, and that's good enough for me.

[MorbusIff]

We don't know things about human history because humans didn't always keep records like we do today. Either those societies didn't have the means to do so or the method they used to record history wasn't sufficient enough to last through the years.

 

RiiIIight. So if I gave you something on a 5 1/4 floppy disk, you could read it? Or a tape drive? Or a zip disk? Or a DVD-R that's more than 10 years old and has had my child's fingers all over the optics? Or a database-controlled website that was shut down and archive.org didn't crawl? Or a piece of information that only appeared in Fortean Times 37? A movie that only appears on Netflix and, whoops, they just lost the licensing to it? A Comcast-only Fear.net documentary?

 

Just because we're good at recording data now doesn't mean that our data will survive 1,000 years, much less 3,000 years. DVD-Rs have a lifespan of, what, six years now? How many times do you re-archive your backups on the newest media? (FWIW, I do, but then, I like to think that I'm a digital archivist.)

[Boneflower]

As I expect at least one person has stated before me...the canon specifies that the Republic and most galactic civilizations go through a rather severe "dark ages" between TOR period we are playing in and the time of the Republic you see in the Prequels. In point of fact, it's an entirely different Republic, as the Old Republic ceased to be during that very dark ages. It is and was canon long before TOR game started up that much...much...was lost during that time in the way of knowledge, technology, etc.

[Joshmaul]

Aren't they all Imperial Agents? Disavowed, I guess.

 

And bounty hunters, too.

 

It's my understanding that the Chiss Ascendancy is formally allied with the Sith Empire. As I look at it, I figure they decided on this for two reasons:

 

First, proximity. The Sith Empire has spent more than a thousand years in what is considered to be "unknown space". Guess who else hangs out in the Unknown Regions? If the Empire is trying to get a foothold in space that's beyond the grip of the Republic, they'd need someone in that space as an ally.

 

And second, as the books that have featured Thrawn or the Chiss in them would indicate (I just read "Survivor's Quest" earlier today), the Ascendancy is not big on military expenditure for its own sake; the Chiss Expeditionary Defense Fleet largely focuses on the "defense" part. Though the Chiss have often been described as xenophobic, the Ruling Families (there were nine in the era of Thrawn, but who knows how many there were three millennia earlier? Maybe the same, maybe more, maybe less) no doubt saw the Imperial fleet bearing down on them and thought that choosing the former option between "join us or die" was a good idea.

[JBFett]

"Lost an entire planet, has Master Kenobi. Very embarrasing."

 

This. /thread

[Jesira]

Who cares? Part of why the game takes place in this era is so that they can write and develop the lore of this era. Lucas has been inconsistent with many things, in Episode 3 there were several major "adjustments" made, one such example being Padme Amidala's death, and Queen Breha was invented to attempt explain Leia's discussion with Luke in the original movies, but he even failed at that because Luke's question to Leia was if she knew their "real mother" to which Leia replied yes, she knew her and remembered her but she died when she was young, not when she was an infant. Star Wars is full of edits and inconsistencies. Edited December 24, 2011 by Jesira

[Darth_Trepicade]

"if its not in the archives, it dosn't exist"

 

"lost a planet, master obi wan has, very embarrasing"

[Gorra-Syn]

Also what I dont get, is that the Chiss are very close and loyal to the Empire yet that cant be Sith? The guy in this old promo pic looks like a Chiss,but I could be wrong.

 

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=swtor+pics&hl=en&sa=X&qscrl=1&nord=1&rlz=1T4ADBF_enUS319US319&biw=1613&bih=876&tbm=isch&prmd=imvns&tbnid=shjzlL2TtLpJpM:&imgrefurl=http://www.xspore.com/community/game-reviews/10960-sw-tor-mmo.html&docid=PagyhzBiLb8T8M&imgurl=http://swtor.onlinewelten.com/uploads/gallery/7/pic-245.jpg&w=1976&h=2519&ei=sUv2TomQD8mBgwf4z7ChAg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=1158&vpy=378&dur=1300&hovh=254&hovw=199&tx=101&ty=138&sig=106756789062379231770&page=4&tbnh=178&tbnw=111&start=89&ndsp=39&ved=1t:429,r:15,s:89

[Viera]

How did they suddenly forget about the Chiss? Easy.

 

Everyone forgets about.

 

The Republic Dark Age was the term given to the last century of the New Sith Wars, from around 1,100 BBY to the Ruusan Reformation of 1,000 BBY. During the Dark Age, the Republic, in the eyes of later centuries, had essentially ceased to exist.

 

Since the start of the Draggulch Period in 2,000 BBY, the Republic had been in decline. During the series of conflicts known as the New Sith Wars, thousands of worlds were abandoned to the New Sith Empire, while more were abandoned during the Republic's retreat. Thousands of longstanding corporations went bankrupt; lawlessness spread as the Republic government became increasingly overburdened and ineffectual; and numerous mines of valuable minerals dried up. The collapse escalated following the Sith victory at the Battle of Mizra in 1,466 BBY.

 

However, all these events were merely a prelude to the Dark Age. The Senate granted almost all of its authority to the Supreme Chancellor, many of whom were Jedi at that point, such as Jedi Master Genarra. Throughout the galaxy Jedi joined in bands to defend individual worlds, and even regions of space, from Sith, pirates, slavers and warlords. In some regions, the Jedi supported existing governments, though in others, Jedi became rulers themselves in order to protect the population from external threats. The more troubled regions of the galaxy were divided by the Supreme Chancellors into Jedi baronial sectors, in an attempt to coordinate the continuing war against the Sith. Although the unity of the Sith seems to have been broken by infighting, and the ongoing conflict was officially portrayed as merely a series of clashes against an illegal organization, the situation wore down the Republic Navy and Army, which likewise fell under increasing Jedi control.

 

The Republic could no longer afford to maintain the HoloNet beyond the Core Worlds, so communications between worlds outside the Core had to be maintained through couriers. Even worse, a galaxywide epidemic of Candorian plague killed off as much as two-thirds of the population of some worlds.

[Evolvana]

Also what I dont get, is that the Chiss are very close and loyal to the Empire yet that cant be Sith? The guy in this old promo pic looks like a Chiss,but I could be wrong.

 

http://www.google.com/imgres?q=swtor+pics&hl=en&sa=X&qscrl=1&nord=1&rlz=1T4ADBF_enUS319US319&biw=1613&bih=876&tbm=isch&prmd=imvns&tbnid=shjzlL2TtLpJpM:&imgrefurl=http://www.xspore.com/community/game-reviews/10960-sw-tor-mmo.html&docid=PagyhzBiLb8T8M&imgurl=http://swtor.onlinewelten.com/uploads/gallery/7/pic-245.jpg&w=1976&h=2519&ei=sUv2TomQD8mBgwf4z7ChAg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=1158&vpy=378&dur=1300&hovh=254&hovw=199&tx=101&ty=138&sig=106756789062379231770&page=4&tbnh=178&tbnw=111&start=89&ndsp=39&ved=1t:429,r:15,s:89

 

He looks Chiss, but the Chiss usually are not Force-sensitive, except for Sev'rence Tann, who was the apprentice of Dooku for a time if I remember well.

[Mrshush]

We don't know things about human history because humans didn't always keep records like we do today. Either those societies didn't have the means to do so or the method they used to record history wasn't sufficient enough to last through the years.

 

In ToR people own interstellar space craft like we own cars, their technology is sufficient to keep records for thousands of years.

 

Furthermore the fact that this information is stored in a variety of ways across the GALAXY and not just on one planet means that some sort of cataclysmic event would not wipe out the data. There would have to be some great cosmic coincidence for that to happen.

 

The only logical conclusion is that the Chiss somehow erased all records of their own existence and went into hiding. Without any records the general populace would forget about them after several generations. Either that or there was some kind of "purging" event where the empire tried to wipe them all out and only a small group survived and then went into hiding.

 

It's still highly improbable that a species spread out across the galaxy could coordinate such an effort.

 

and bam. 1 emp pulse and 90% of of digital history data is gone. how we keep records now a days, is probally more prone to being lost then 2000years ago stone/copper scrolls etc. not to mention half the ppl who play this dont know what a floppy disk is!!!!! how is someone in 1000years even going to figure how to read it, when we still cant get a uniform OS.

[emhak]

I figured that since we know the downfall of the Sith Empire is inevitable (SPOILER ALERT) and that the Republic would eventually emerge victorious (from what I assume is an epic military campaign to destroy the Sith Empire), the Chiss would be ******** in their pants thinking that they had just allied the wrong team and that once the Republic finds out that the Chiss Ascendency were full official allies of the Empire, that the full brunt of the Republic military would bear down on the Ascendency.

 

Its not too far off to presume that the leaders of the Chiss had all trace of them wiped out from all records, you can't find an enemy that doesn't *exist*. After all only a limited number of Chiss personnel served the Empire and no Chiss warships were used (so far), so it would be easy to wipe out all trace of their involvement.

[Rushyo]

One of the things we did early on is we tried to find a species that really wasn’t very well known in the modern day and make them allies with the Empire. The Chiss, as we know from the EU, will eventually disappear after this for a while. They get rediscovered later. The Empire grabbed the Chiss on their way in, and they made a deal with the Chiss Ascendancy. They are the only Imperial allies out in the galaxy. All the other people that are aliens on that side were basically conquered people.

-Erickson (Lead Writer)

 

http://swtor.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Ausir/Daniel_Erickson_answers_your_questions

[Janigg]

I just want my damn Chiss forum avatar!

[DTBountyHunter]

Lucas put his foot down on this one he has mandated ABSOLUTELY no jedi wookies after lowbacca. hes pissed that even lowbacca exist.

 

Can't wait till the fat bastard dies off so the SW lore can fly free of his mental confines.

 

Seriously, all of the meddling that Lucas does has only harmed Star Wars.

[Malaix]

It was retconned in the hopes of attracting fans of the race to spend money.

 

/thread

[NyyuSecura]

Chiss, and not Togruta disappointing

[Allfader]

But my problem isn't just that the Republic didn't find any records of the Chiss after they found them in the Unknown Regions. But the Chiss Expansionary Fleet and the Chiss Defense Fleet both take a keen interest in ANY race or government specifically to ensure they pose no threat to the Chiss Ascendancy. With that said, when the smugglers were held by Thrawn he tries to find out as much information on the Republic as possible to make sure the Chiss Ascendancy was in no danger of invasion. If the Chiss had interacted with the Empire and the Republic in such an extensive way as to have Agents inside of Imperial Intelligence, they would have had dealings with Sith, combat maneuvers, intelligence analysis, etc.

 

How did the Chiss Ascendancy lose all of these records in such a way that the Republic, the human race, force users, etc. become brand new to them all over again? I mean, there isn't a single myth/story/legend about beings that can manipulate electricity with their fingers to kill people? If you've played TOR since launch, then you've seen that's 90% of the galaxy, so I'd like to think the Chiss would have thought they posed some measure of a threat.

 

And before someone posts another "Who cares?" reply, remember this is under Lore. If you don't care, you're reading under the wrong forum.

[Evolvana]

I want a Chiss avatar too!

 

 

And as for the "no record of the Chiss in the Empire" and "no record of the Empire in the Chiss'ascendency data", it's normal: Lucas and Bioware just didn't think about this at all.

 

They included the Chiss just because they're humanoid and would then make a good race to play in SWTOR with almost no effort (they just take the skin of humans and turn the skin blue and the eyes red). That's all!