How was DAoC pvp more "skill" based than other games?

[Aidank]

I'm just curious, I never played the game but i've seen probably 40 threads about how skill based it was over the past few weeks.

 

 

For the most part, they just talk about the gear making it more skillfull or that classes were hard countered by other classes

 

 

Neither of those things sound particularly "skillfull"... so are there any other reasons why so many people talk about how skill based it was?

[serovan]

Most likely because gear didn't decide the outcome, Ive heard getting the pvp set in that game was easy so everyone was on the same playing field.

 

If not, it should be that way anyway.

[xxdragonragexx]

it isn't.

 

CC that lasts for 30 seconds.

No CC breaks.

Any hit interrupts spell casting so you cant cast any spell if you are getting hit.

Permanent stun.

Archers used to kill casters in one hit until they introduced bladeturn. Now it requires them 2-3 hits.

 

Maphack is a must. If your group doesn't have maphack, they can't roam open pvp since 1 group mez = dead party.

Edited February 2, 2012 by xxdragonragexx

[Aidank]

Most likely because gear didn't decide the outcome, Ive heard getting the pvp set in that game was easy so everyone was on the same playing field.

 

If not, it should be that way anyway.

 

Well, that's not much different from games like wow, and I don't really see how that makes a game skill based.

 

In arena past around 2200 rating pretty much everyone had the exact same gear, unless they had some pve legendary or some trinket but those weren't really all that common.

[Javacup]

it isn't.

 

CC that lasts for 30 seconds.

No CC breaks.

Any hit interrupts spell casting so you cant cast any spell if you are getting hit.

Permanent stun.

Archers used to kill casters in one hit until they introduced bladeturn. Now it requires them 2-3 hits.

 

Maphack is a must. If your group doesn't have maphack, they can't roam open pvp since 1 group mez = dead party.

 

Cheating is a must because your leader doesn't pan and react fast enough...? How is that not a skill problem?

 

Interrupt on casting adds in something called good positioning and peels, not tanking everything like other games.

[Moriam]

Good topic. Lets get some daoc fanboys in here to respond though..

Was there any rankng system?

Also i have read that pve gear was better for pvp than pvp gear. Is this true?

[Noctournys]

Cheating is a must because your leader doesn't pan and react fast enough...? How is that not a skill problem?

 

Interrupt on casting adds in something called good positioning and peels, not tanking everything like other games.

 

.. so does getting hit reset your swing timer?

 

No?

 

Justify that one.

[Girwen]

DAOC was rarely about skill. It was like most mmos about the number of people and the group make ups. The class balance was never what some claim it to be. Still it was a very awesome world to splore and had many fun times getting killed and killing =)

[Moriam]

Cheating is a must because your leader doesn't pan and react fast enough...? How is that not a skill problem?

 

Interrupt on casting adds in something called good positioning and peels, not tanking everything like other games.

 

What are you implying? I can agree that swtor does not reward good positioning and peels well but wow really did. I am not sure what game you are referring to.

[Noctournys]

Well, that's not much different from games like wow, and I don't really see how that makes a game skill based.

 

In arena past around 2200 rating pretty much everyone had the exact same gear, unless they had some pve legendary or some trinket but those weren't really all that common.

 

as much as i like to slap people over the unfounded love for DaoC, i do have to say the following in DaoC's defense:

 

pretty much everyone in DaoC PvPed.

 

substantially less than 20% of WoW players have ever reached even middling arena ranks and almost 3 out of 5 have never stepped into an Arena at all... hell almost 2 out of 5 have never even PvPed.

[Xsorus]

it isn't.

 

CC that lasts for 30 seconds.

No CC breaks.

Any hit interrupts spell casting so you cant cast any spell if you are getting hit.

Permanent stun.

Archers used to kill casters in one hit until they introduced bladeturn. Now it requires them 2-3 hits.

 

Maphack is a must. If your group doesn't have maphack, they can't roam open pvp since 1 group mez = dead party.

 

Hmmm, some of the things you just said were changed within the first 6 months of DAOC, DAOC is like 10 years old now... So yea..

 

For example, No CC breaks..... Purge, Group Purge, Mez Break, Things like Charge on Melee DPS.... Pretty standard stuff for most of the games life.

 

The Interrupt system is honestly the best thing they did in that game, as it required skill to play a caster instead of standing right in front of the melee and spamming whatever your spell is. You had to be situationally aware of you surroundings on the Caster othewise you got crapped on, Your reward was basically high damage.

 

Perma Stun, again didn't exist after the first 6 months of the games life, so that's moot.

 

Archers, pretty much what you stated is false after first 6 months..2-3 Hits, yea not happening in DAOC....

 

Basically when I look at your post, I look at someone who played DAOC probably within the first 3 months of the game, and quit.. So you pretty much have zero say on how DAOC evolved as a PVP system.

 

Though when I see the last thing you stated, Maphack, aka radar, It boggles my mind, cause that easily didn't come along till at least a year, So either you intentionally got your information wrong, Or you frankly were just bad.

 

But anyway, One group Mez killing your group was basically true if you were the worst 8man ever, Which judging by your post, was quite possible.

 

But lets go a step further, If you played Hib, it was actually better to be hit by a Group Mez because of Group Purge (CC immunity after Purging it) and Frankly if you managed to get a Instant Group Mez off on any Alb premade back NF i'd be amazed.

 

In closing, don't speak of DAOC"s pvp when you've shown little grasp of it.

[xxdragonragexx]

Hmmm, some of the things you just said were changed within the first 6 months of DAOC, DAOC is like 10 years old now... So yea..

 

For example, No CC breaks..... Purge, Group Purge, Mez Break, Things like Charge on Melee DPS.... Pretty standard stuff for most of the games life.

 

The Interrupt system is honestly the best thing they did in that game, as it required skill to play a caster instead of standing right in front of the melee and spamming whatever your spell is. You had to be situationally aware of you surroundings on the Caster othewise you got crapped on, Your reward was basically high damage.

 

Perma Stun, again didn't exist after the first 6 months of the games life, so that's moot.

 

Archers, pretty much what you stated is false after first 6 months..2-3 Hits, yea not happening in DAOC....

 

Basically when I look at your post, I look at someone who played DAOC probably within the first 3 months of the game, and quit.. So you pretty much have zero say on how DAOC evolved as a PVP system.

 

Though when I see the last thing you stated, Maphack, aka radar, It boggles my mind, cause that easily didn't come along till at least a year, So either you intentionally got your information wrong, Or you frankly were just bad.

 

But anyway, One group Mez killing your group was basically true if you were the worst 8man ever, Which judging by your post, was quite possible.

 

But lets go a step further, If you played Hib, it was actually better to be hit by a Group Mez because of Group Purge (CC immunity after Purging it) and Frankly if you managed to get a Instant Group Mez off on any Alb premade back NF i'd be amazed.

 

In closing, don't speak of DAOC"s pvp when you've shown little grasp of it.

 

So why are you in this game if daoc has the best pvp?

 

One more thing I forgot to add.

 

BUFFBOTS. Players basically need 2 accounts just so they can have twice the stats than the rest. Even if gear was easy to get, paying for another account gives a big advantage.

Edited February 2, 2012 by xxdragonragexx

[TheRealBrave]

So why are you in this game if daoc has the best pvp?

 

One more thing I forgot to add.

 

BUFFBOTS. Players basically need 2 accounts just so they can have twice the stats than the rest. Even if gear was easy to get, paying for another account gives a big advantage.

 

You don't have to have buff bots in DAoC anymore. Just throwing that out there, and it was never hard to get someone to buff you with their bot anyways. You seem to be terribly uninformed.

Edited February 2, 2012 by TheRealBrave

[Ribtips]

DaoC has nothing on AOC

[Xsorus]

Good topic. Lets get some daoc fanboys in here to respond though..

Was there any rankng system?

Also i have read that pve gear was better for pvp than pvp gear. Is this true?

 

That's not how DAOC worked.

 

What is now considered the carrot in terms of progression in PvP in most MMO's worked differently in DAOC. In DAOC you built your Template before PvPing, The way it worked was you went out and depending on the time frame of daoc (Before TOA or After) if before TOA you simply bought crafted gear and built a template off that, and based on the fact it was very easily to reach the stat cap in that game (There was a stat cap, Basically 75 on stats, 25 on resists, 200 HP, TOA changed it, allowed for going over the caps by 100 on stats, and 400 on HP) TOA introduced Artifacts and such, so you could potentially have cap weakness's (like avoiding matter resist, or lowering it, and relying on buffs to cover it) to pickup items with abilities you could pop. All of this was achievable before you even entered PVP. So you either bought or PVEd your gear first.

 

 

Now what I said about what DAOC did differently is the Realm Rank system, What you see today as progression in gear was achieved through the Realm Rank system instead. So going into fresh level 50 PVP, you were Rank 1, And you'd get things like Rank 1l2, 1l3,1l4 and this would go up to the original Rank 10, Which is basically 100 Levels of PvP.

 

This allowed you to spend points into stats,abilities and such, But it was basically the same carrot.

 

a Rank 10 player was remarkably more powerful then a Rank 1, At about Rank 5 most 8mans could compete though if they were good.

 

How did people decide who had skill vs who didn't in DAOC, since no actual ranking system took place?

 

Well simple, You simply killed your opponent more then they killed you, If you dominated the server with your 8man, people knew about it, No one talked about ****** groups that died all the time.

[HelloKittyIsland]

If you needed maphacks to do good in 8v8 roaming rvr then you were just bad.

 

Complete open world RvR(pvp) over 3 different connecting areas is just awesome. There was no PvP gear and no "attributes" that were only for pvp that made you better. There were times were you would have battles of 100+v100+ people at castles. Each realm had 2 relics toward the inner most area of their RvR region that gave bonuses, if you owned the other realms' relics.

 

Attacks interrupting casters made it so you had to be somewhat skilled while doing battles, so you wouldn't be completely useless.

 

There was no permanent stun.

There were cc breaks.

 

DAoC had by far the best PvP, but the PvE was not all that enjoyable.

 

The buffbots did start to make it suck, but thats only if you solo. Has no real effect in groups or zerging it up with 50+ people.

[Moriam]

You don't have to have buff bots in DAoC anymore. Just throwing that out there, and it was never hard to get someone to buff you with their bot anyways. You seem to be terribly uninformed.

 

So what did the pvp revolve around? Group vs group pvp? How big? What was the goal? Control of resources? Was there a way to rank people? How did you gauge how skilled a player was?

[Xsorus]

So why are you in this game if daoc has the best pvp?

 

One more thing I forgot to add.

 

BUFFBOTS. Players basically need 2 accounts just so they can have twice the stats than the rest. Even if gear was easy to get, paying for another account gives a big advantage.

 

DAOC is a 10 year old game, Really that simple.

 

Buffbots were a problem if you were solo and didn't have one, But over the years they've somewhat removed the need for em, You could buy potions, used this Buff NPC they have, or do what I did for the longest time and just use the Champion LvL buffs (they were crappy, but I was played a Valkyrie then and could still win most 1v1's)

 

In groups you simply had to have enough buffs to cover your group after they added Buff Shears, as you simply could not run without a buffer and expect to not have to port back to the keep after every fight, and you would have to cover the buffs mid fight as you'd gear sheared, or you'd rez someone with no buffs

 

Then of course you had classes like the Vampiir that had no need of buffs.

[ReddNekk]

it isn't.

 

CC that lasts for 30 seconds.

No CC breaks.

Any hit interrupts spell casting so you cant cast any spell if you are getting hit.

Permanent stun.

Archers used to kill casters in one hit until they introduced bladeturn. Now it requires them 2-3 hits.

 

Maphack is a must. If your group doesn't have maphack, they can't roam open pvp since 1 group mez = dead party.

 

I remember that all too well. 90% of the time in a one on one "fight" it was "stun-nuke-nuke-nuke-dead". I've never seen such insane CC as there was in that game.

[TheRealBrave]

So what did the pvp revolve around? Group vs group pvp? How big? What was the goal? Control of resources? Was there a way to rank people? How did you gauge how skilled a player was?

 

Solo... 8 mans... raids... a lot of different ways to PvP in that game. It was skill based, gear didn't matter too much and wasn't very hard to obtain (pre-ToA). Not entirely sure what to tell you, you could tell how skilled a player was by observing them like in any other MMO without a ladder system. Because the game didn't have rated battlegrounds or arenas it somehow meant the game involved no skill? I'm just curious at what kind of point you're trying to make .

[Xsorus]

So what did the pvp revolve around? Group vs group pvp? How big? What was the goal? Control of resources? Was there a way to rank people? How did you gauge how skilled a player was?

 

There was different levels of the pvp in DAOC depending on what you wanted to do.

 

Generally speaking, you had

 

Group vs Group (8v8) which was basically 8mans roaming around looking for other 8mans.

 

You had Zerg Buster groups, basically specific groups built for blowing the crap out of zergs and doing alright in PvP, really depended on the setup and the realm.

 

You had the Stealther Game, basically Stealthers either zerging it up, or 1v1 or small manning.

 

You had the visible who went out looking for 1v1's and small mans, these were solo's and such.

 

You had the actual Realm Combat, which involved zerging and taking keeps/towers (depending on OF and NF) trying to get the relics of the opposing side for a Bonus (20% melee or spell damage)

[Xsorus]

I remember that all too well. 90% of the time in a one on one "fight" it was "stun-nuke-nuke-nuke-dead". I've never seen such insane CC as there was in that game.

 

That was either before 6 month mark of the game (when CC immunity wasn't in) or after the 6 month mark of the game, and you were to stupid to have heat resist or purge the stun.

[Moriam]

Solo... 8 mans... raids... a lot of different ways to PvP in that game. It was skill based, gear didn't matter too much and wasn't very hard to obtain (pre-ToA). Not entirely sure what to tell you, you could tell how skilled a player was by observing them like in any other MMO without a ladder system. Because the game didn't have rated battlegrounds or arenas it somehow meant the game involved no skill? I'm just curious at what kind of point you're trying to make .

 

Just curious

[xxdragonragexx]

So what did the pvp revolve around? Group vs group pvp? How big? What was the goal? Control of resources? Was there a way to rank people? How did you gauge how skilled a player was?

 

Basically 8 man group would roam in open world pvp. Of course, whoever is leading has to have maphack cause whoever gets the drop on someone has the most advantage. Only a few participated in it.

 

I didn't even do it, I enjoy defending keeps more. My wizard basically had 4 buttons. Fireball then insta + fireball then realm rank direct damage then darkness falls staff proc. Usually kills any caster I target on the keep.

 

Basically if a caster gets in range, he dies much like an operative killing someone in 3 hits while in a stunlock.

[Javacup]

I know it must be shocking to some people that people actually rvr'd because it was enjoyable and not a grind for gear.