So the newly 50's expect to be treated like royalty because?

[LincolnAlphaZeta]

Pre-patch:

 

QQ - PvP Isn't fair!!!

 

Post-Patch

 

QQ - PvP Isn't fair!!!

 

someone wanna tell me what changed with this patch other than the group of folks screaming "It's not fair!!!"?

 

Folks need to grow up and not have this "I'm entitled" attitude (pre or post patch)

 

and yes, I've paid my money, I do WZ's, I do my dailies, I don't do Ilum PvP 'cause I'm not a fan of the setup.

 

Don't like it? Cancel your sub, write a letter to BW/EA, and find another way to spend your time other than QQ'ing to a bunch of people who have heard it all before. I'm sure Habitats for Humanity, the local animal shelter, or local soup kitchen could use an extra volunteer.

Edited February 2, 2012 by LincolnAlphaZeta

[Kuari]

Pre-patch:

 

QQ - PvP Isn't fair!!!

 

Post-Patch

 

QQ - PvP Isn't fair!!!

 

someone wanna tell me what changed with this patch other than the group of folks screaming "It's not fair!!!"?

 

Nothing has changed just yet, and there will always be people complaining, but you can't ignore everything just because some people complain about everything.

[Ipsemeter]

I'd actually more question what game besides MMOs try to make things unfair to this extent for their new players?

New sports players don't play with a handicap, just their lack of experience

CCG players can find ways of using common cards to beat the hell out of rare decks

Tabletop gaming? You're a crappy DM if you let the balance between characters get too far out of hand.

FPS games? Pain in the neck. but gorilla tactics work well for new players

 

MMOs.. gear gap that if both players are remotely competent, the better geared player is not only guaranteed to win, but win by leagues.

 

...you know, I'm starting to see why MMOs attract the more annoying of the forum crowds that want to say "screw you" to anyone who isn't them and make claims that anyone who disagrees with them falls in very select groups without bringing logic to back it up and ignoring those who prove them wrong.

 

 

 

I hope you're trolling... because there's this little thing call fractions and decimals. 900 / 1100 is approximately .81, .82, somewhere around there. So roughly someone with 0% expertise against someone with 10% is only doing about 81-82% of the damage to them that they are receiving in return.

 

Seriously though, retake math if you're serious, because this is elementary level math.

 

900/1100=.82

.82 as a fraction 82

100

.18 remains.

 

Your formula is flawed and has no application to this discussion.

 

X=expertise y=damage out e=damage in a=health f=mitigation

x(y/e) - f = a

----------------

y/e-f=a

a/a=winner

[Asnine]

900/1100=.82

.82 as a fraction 82

100

.18 remains.

 

Your formula is flawed and has no application to this discussion.

 

X=expertise y=damage out e=damage in a=health f=mitigation

x(y/e) - f = a

----------------

y/e-f=a

a/a=winner

 

....

 

you really shouldn't be educating people on math when you can't do basic algebra yourself. I'm not debating whether or not your formula is correct, but your math is wrong.

 

x(y/e) - f = a is not the same thing as x(y/e - f) = a

Edited February 2, 2012 by Asnine

[EXODUZX]

I bet all the QQ is coming from the fresh 50's who can't be arsed to change their lvl 45 gear... and I barely see anyone using adrenals/stims/medpacs...

[Daedricshots]

I bet all the QQ is coming from the fresh 50's who can't be arsed to change their lvl 45 gear... and I barely see anyone using adrenals/stims/medpacs...

 

No the QQ is from people that are already BM's claiming fresh 50's get "welfare epics" now.

[Kuari]

900/1100=.82

.82 as a fraction 82

100

.18 remains.

 

Your formula is flawed and has no application to this discussion.

 

X=expertise y=damage out e=damage in a=health f=mitigation

x(y/e) - f = a

----------------

y/e-f=a

a/a=winner

 

Flawed huh? ok, going along with the same stats thing again, lets say the guy that does the 900 and the 1100 guy each have 20000 HP.

 

They each fire at the same rate and the same time.

 

The one lacking expertise? 22.222 (repeating) hits to kill

 

The one with it? 18.18 (18 repeating) hits to kill

 

Divide 18.18/22.22... OH HEY! I still get around .81. I'm sure it'll work for larger numbers too. flawed, huh?

[LincolnAlphaZeta]

Nothing has changed just yet, and there will always be people complaining, but you can't ignore everything just because some people complain about everything.

 

Agreed. but 99 44/100 % of what I've seen is "It's not fair!!!".

 

Very few posts actually have constructive criticism laid out in some type of thoughtful post. Sadly this is now the society we live in where a group of people say "THIS SUCK! CHANGE IT!", with the response "OK, How?" and the cry comes back "I don't know, just make it so it doesn't suck"

[Barrechor]

The only people complaining about pvp gear are bad pvpers. Took my mate 2 weeks to get 3 parts shy of a full champ set and hes not whined like a girl once.

 

Seriously, if youre on here whining about pvp gear and why you get roflstomped, youre a crap pvper, end of.

[chuleh]

What?

 

Not it doesn't. Why are you dividing 900 by 1100? How, that's like...a negative number, 1100 can not go into 900, ever.

Found new sig.

[Ipsemeter]

"Not it doesn't. Why are you dividing 900 by 1100? How, that's like...a negative number, 1100 can not go into 900, ever. "

 

Wow...that is hilarious. He is probably just young, but seriously what happened to education?

 

Let's say I give you 900 dollars, but your mom's cut is 1100 for basement room and board, that means you are negative 200 dollars to her but 82 percent toward making your rent for the month, but it does not mean you are 18 percent ahead or behind because other factors haven't been considered like Cheetos expense, prawnz, or even Mountain Dew. It only means you are lacking 18% of your rent, or negative 200 in the hole to be most precise.

[The_FeniX]

Apparently anyone who got their 50 gear the way it was intended are the 1% and the rest of the loud rabble who got to the party late will have everyone penalized?

To take a non-MMO example: I got stuck in the bowels of console gaming for a few years and played loads of Left 4 Dead on the 360. Expert difficult was pretty damn difficult, but we downed all of them the legit way. The issue was that they were extremely easy to glitch out and beat on Easy difficulty and get the Expert achievements (this same thing happened in Left 4 Dead 2 except it was done a different way). So, I know I beat them legit, but actually proving it is impossible. And yea it kind of irked me that other people could get the achievements without having any actual skill at the game, but you get over it.

 

So, saying you ground out your gear the "right way" when you were PvPing during the early access/release doesn't mean much. There were still numerous ways to get valor, coms, and bags without doing much actual PvP at all. And what actual warzones you did could be counted on to have numerous 10-49s to beat down. So, even the "right way" meant you were likely fighting people on your gear level, not fighting at all, or smashing sub-50s. WZs were a lot of "They have 5 guys under 50. We only have 1 under 50. We got this." And 99% of the time, they were right.

 

Now? You will get into PvP and constantly fight players well above you in gear. Sorry guys, doing it the "legit" way was easy mode.

 

This is why you see these guys say Casuals suck as they spend all day on the game so have the gear and any sign that they would be on equal footing scares them.

The point is that with all the hilarity of 1.1 and under is that you didn't need to spend all that much time to get your gear. Knocking out weeklies and dailies would rarely take more than an hour. The 15 imps already there were more than happy to see me show up, launch my rockets, get my weekly.

 

I had to unlock weapons and armor buffs in WH2k and COD3, how's that different than here? Why is it that someone that just bought the game have the same equipment and abilities I have that I have put time into unlocking? i got mine, get yours. There will always be a gear difference until, gasp, you obtain the gear. If my blaster's max potential is over 9000, and your's is Vegeta, then I will win.

Did your unlocks in COD3 make you impossible to kill? No, they gave you some advantages (other than skill) over new players. But in CoD:MW, a level 1 with an M4 could still gun you down.

 

A BM with full champ and some BM is going to absolutely crush a fresh 50.

 

If that's what you want, fine. But a good system shouldn't reward you for this. As it stands, you get your wins, coms, tokens by beating the same group of undergeared players. And with the medal system, you actually get rewarded more because you'll do more damage and survive longer.

 

Even a PvP system as broken as WoW forces players to progress to Rated BGs and Arenas if they want to continue their gear advancement. SWTOR only has gear progression in PvP, not actual progression.

 

I've brought this up before, but how much crying would there be on the forums about "PvE Progression" if you could get full Rakata by doing normal lvl-50 flashpoints? That is what SWTOR PvP is like for people who started early: you get to farm easy opponents for free wins. For those just getting in, it's like fighting Hardmode/nightmare OP bosses in 50 rare gear.

[Lividcalm]

Oh, and I also think you mean BF3. COD is for you console kiddies

 

Anyone using the term "kiddies" on forums exposes themself as the true child in my experience.

[Kuari]

Let's say I give you 900 dollars, but your mom's cut is 1100 for basement room and board, that means you are negative 200 dollars to her but 82 percent toward making your rent for the month, but it does not mean you are 18 percent ahead or behind because other factors haven't been considered like Cheetos expense, prawnz, or even Mountain Dew. It only means you are lacking 18% of your rent, or negative 200 in the hole to be most precise.

 

*headbutts desk* not only is that the most thinly veiled attempt at making a subtle insult I've ever see... first person ever to reach my ignore list on the forums. That takes a lot of effort. Could make a Vulcan quiver in pain...

Edited February 2, 2012 by Kuari

[Nishifumi]

Without doing the math, but considering roughly the way I PvP'd, with the new bag system, you should be fully geared out in champ/cent gear in roughly 2 weeks.

 

If you did all the dailies and weeklies you'd get 720 centurion commendations and 336 champion commendations. This is WITHOUT buying bags with your warzone comms. Personally, I would probably have bought a bag every day if not 2 on some days (but 2 is pushing it for the average player). That would add another 360 centurion comms and 168 champ comms for a total of 1080 cent comms and 504 champ comms. Which means, in 2 weeks, you could buy your champion mainhand, offhand, two champ relics (for expertise), 2-3 pieces of champ tier gear (the chest, pants etc..) and have cent gear coming out of your ears.

 

That's all in 2 weeks of just doing dailies and weeklies. Tell me what 'other' mmo you can gear up in full 'arena-type' gear in 2 weeks with minimal effort of doing dailies. Tell me where in that 'other mmo' you can jump into an arena or a 'warzone' at level 50 in blues and compete with a fully geared pvp geared person. You are now getting your gear within a very small timeframe and will have less bonus for your efforts.

 

I just spent approximately "since early release" (-__-) grinding up to 70 valor. I have full battlemaster and even a stalker robe because I liked the look (though I'm a sage). I ground through the old champ system where I got 5 gloves 4 bracers 4 implants 3 relics 2 chests and no champ hat/mainhand/offhand/earpiece/boots/belt till I hit battlemaster.

 

I did this by grinding warzones 12 hours a day once I hit valor rank 50. I also leveled mostly by pvp and just doing class quests.

 

Now, not only are the people who complained getting new shiny gear in 1/3 the time, their gear will be worse off and my gear that I just worked hard to get is going to be matched by level 50s much more closely within 2 weeks.

 

The game is turning into a "You get all your stuff at 50 and complete all content in 2 weeks" game and nothing to look forward to but minimal gains in gear level for those who actually try to work at building something? Why not just make the whole game "Get to 50 and get gear given to you, win the game and have nothing else to do."

 

The token to comm idea is good. Reducing the effectiveness of gear I spent a month grinding out is not.

 

Not sure why they'd want to give things to people easier AND make them less valuable at the same time. Where is the reward for time invested?

[Kuari]

Not sure why they'd want to give things to people easier AND make them less valuable at the same time. Where is the reward for time invested?

 

I really doubt this would be a question brought up had the gear been at reduced levels in the first place.

[Nishifumi]

So, people would not be complaining about not getting champ gear like I wasn't?

 

People like to work for a reward. In the other mmo I play, where I don't pvp because I don't like it, you have to work for a very long time to get full pvp gear at the highest level. You would still also crush the competition in it if they just dinged 50 and did some hard mode type instances. Why are there no issues there?

[Jeopardydd]

So, people would not be complaining about not getting champ gear like I wasn't?

 

People like to work for a reward. In the other mmo I play, where I don't pvp because I don't like it, you have to work for a very long time to get full pvp gear at the highest level. You would still also crush the competition in it if they just dinged 50 and did some hard mode type instances. Why are there no issues there?

 

 

there are issues there.

 

I personally quit RIFT because of it.

[Nishifumi]

Also, getting rakata gear is ridiculously easy if you know 7 other decent players. Will the gap difference between myself and these guys be closer too? It's better than my battlemaster gear for pve. Will they be closer or equal to my pvp gear in pvp?

[Zarthorn]

Lol, oh lawd. Investing time sure is hard.

 

One sentence for you.

 

Get a job, most of us are sick of paying taxes for state spongers to sit on video games all day.

[Barrechor]

Also, getting rakata gear is ridiculously easy if you know 7 other decent players. Will the gap difference between myself and these guys be closer too? It's better than my battlemaster gear for pve. Will they be closer or equal to my pvp gear in pvp?

 

Yeah, they could start handing out Columi drops on normal mode FPs to balance the whole gear thing out.....

[FrevikThul]

Do you know what level 50s do in pve when they hit 50? They do regular mode 50 dungeons, dailies, get crafted gear and do early hardmode FPs. They match the gear they have with the difficulty of the flashpoint.

 

Do you know what level 50s do in pvp when they hit 50? They have NO CHOICE but to go up against BM players because the only way to get pvp gear is by being stomped over and over and over. Your logic would make sense if there was a matchmaker based on your expertise gear- but there isn't.

 

 

This would be a more accurate way of saying it. PvErs- the moment you hit 50, you can do nothing but nightmare modes of operations until you get your gear. That seem fair? Well, that's how the pvp system works right now.

 

But rejoice! They're nerfing BM/Champ loot drops, so that gap will be even harder to bypass!

 

right...how many flashpoints and ops reward you for losing? If you lose a WZ, you still walk away with commendations, cash, experience, and valor. So your logic, sir, would make sense if WZ's didn't reward losers - but it does.

[Nishifumi]

I realize that wasn't directed at me, however, I do not receive government assistance, I have worked since I was 15, I spent 4 years in a factory in Detroit breaking my back to put myself through college.

 

I am ill now with no health care and I have been for the past 6 years. I have paid taxes up to the last year and contributed to social security. I paid 50,000 for my college education mostly myself (with some aid). I was 3 classes from finishing where I worked for a good gpa and stayed up at least one night a week studying for tests.

 

I now live a life of suffering every day like you could not imagine. I realize people who have it easy are quick to judge but some people have issues in life. I would hope the things they say don't come back to them... it'd be a difficult thing to deal with. Seems like the nice guy is not only finishing last but not finishing at all.

 

/rant off

[Jadeor]

cause pvp is supposed to be fun, not you facerolling 12k hp enemies in ur full bm gear... sigh

[Jeopardydd]

right...how many flashpoints and ops reward you for losing? If you lose a WZ, you still walk away with commendations, cash, experience, and valor. So your logic, sir, would make sense if WZ's didn't reward losers - but it does.

 

 

you still get xp, gear, credits, etc from flashpoints even if you don't finish them.