So Why is Threat Invisible?

[Frammshamm]

sure we dont NEED a threat meter.. but why not? it wont ruin your experience to have the option.

 

There are however many other things that this game NEEDS, and lacking those just makes things like the lack of a threat meter seem like a bigger deal than it is. The fact is.. when a game is just BAD, the little things start to annoy you more than they should.

[Solemnone]

You know, some of us have tanked for years with our only "threat meter" being a healer running in crazy circles. There was a time before WoW, before you could solo past level 10, when even a mob 4 levels below you could destroy you, back when you actually had to (Wait for Iiiitt!) Pay attention to what You were doing. Why exactly do you need to be told that you're not holding aggro? I promise you, if you're not, the healer will let you know. And if you are a DPS, you have the best aggro indicator in the game; it's called having your face eaten by the mob.

[DaxRendar]

Agreed, but that's also a pretty high bar. And again, all I asked is why it's excluded to begin with. "Need" is a poor argument since 1, I didn't make it and 2, we have lots of UI elements that we don't strictly "Need".

 

Can we all stop saying "need"? It's... so not the point.

 

Fine...

 

-BW decided Threat is a more interesting mechanic when it isn't perfectly known/managed

-BW hasn't (and hopefully won't) introduce Encounters where losing Threat = insta-gib/auto-wipe (and if they do, hopefully the meter or Threat Indicator is Encounter Specific)

-BW simply decided it wasn't necessary

 

Pick one and you are good to go

 

No one's suggesting this. It's a straw man.

 

Knowing my threat on, say, and AoE pull where I'm holding five mobs at once doesn't guarantee that I can hold them all.

 

You all keep making the straw man "he wants everything to be perfect and for nothing to go wrong." I never said this. Ever.

 

I wish you could all debate me instead of the imaginary opponents in your head.

 

Others in this thread certainly have argued that they are required or that "perfect information" is beneficial. That's who I was responding to.

 

And actually, if you work as a team with your DPS it's pretty easy to hold Threat on a multi-mob pull because if holding Threat is required you mark and kill them sequentially, and if they don't hit that hard you simply do your best and let the DPS clean up any messes they make for themselves.

 

It might be shocking to some of the people reading this thread, but we used to actually develop Strats for pulls and engage in problem-solving and not just zerg-pull everything into AoE Killzones

[Jandi]

Mods like deadly boss mods etc, that practically tells you how to play, are dumb and completely trivialize content. Threat meter, however, is crucial in many cases where agro lss means a wipe.

 

Since BW decided to go with the dumb style of making bosses HUGE, it's impossible to see what is happening all the time (this is another issue, but it's sort of related). How can a ranged dps, half way across the room, tell if a tank gets stunned and simply cannot taunt/keep building threat? Oh, that's right, they can't because they have to pay attention to the environment and possible random stuff like, for example, Soas lightning balls or trying to spot the mind trap location.

 

You don't even need numerical values, just an indicator if you are about to pull agro is enough. Even something like a simple colour indicator that goes from green to yellow to red would be enough. No one is asking for stuff that makes encounters trivial, just SOMETHING, anything to indicate, even on-the-ball-park estimation of threat, so dps can use threat reduction abilities before a boss turns and does a sweep attack, killing the melee.

 

Parsing tool to see what exactly happened would also be extremely helpful. It's frustrating not knowing where the problem, exactly, is when you wipe. It's hard to improve your performance, when you have no clue WHATSOEVER what you're doing wrong and who got hit by what. Yes, I know, it sucks to be singled out but it's the only way to improve your game.

 

These are the ONLY tools that, in my opinion, are crucial. That is, if BW ever decides to ramp up the complexity of the end-game raiding. If it stays on the trivially simple level that it is now, fine, that's their choice and then it doesn't really matter. If they do, however, they will be needed.

 

Oh and the "we dident niid in gaim x y or z" argument is dumb. Pretty much everything before AQ40 in wow, in any game, had nothing but tank and spank bosses, they do not require any other analyzing than "Did we spank him or did healers run out of mana".

[Jandi]

You know, some of us have tanked for years with our only "threat meter" being a healer running in crazy circles. There was a time before WoW, before you could solo past level 10, when even a mob 4 levels below you could destroy you, back when you actually had to (Wait for Iiiitt!) Pay attention to what You were doing. Why exactly do you need to be told that you're not holding aggro? I promise you, if you're not, the healer will let you know. And if you are a DPS, you have the best aggro indicator in the game; it's called having your face eaten by the mob.

 

And every single on of those required nothing more than tank and spank tactics. Actually read the thread and understand the point before you make posts that are completely irrelevant.

[Rhinzual]

You know, some of us have tanked for years with our only "threat meter" being a healer running in crazy circles. There was a time before WoW, before you could solo past level 10, when even a mob 4 levels below you could destroy you, back when you actually had to (Wait for Iiiitt!) Pay attention to what You were doing. Why exactly do you need to be told that you're not holding aggro? I promise you, if you're not, the healer will let you know. And if you are a DPS, you have the best aggro indicator in the game; it's called having your face eaten by the mob.

 

I started when Everquest's second expansion hit. Really, the WoW references are still coming off as super easy to me. There were no trains in WoW, which meant Fansy wouldn't have been able to do what he did.

[kitharen]

I tanked for years without any threat meter other than mobs starting to beat up my DPS or support. I'm bound to say L2P.

[Spitoc]

Or, unlike you, he is a really good tank who can do his job without needed to be told by a program how to do it. By constantly making sure everyone is on him, he knows that he has threat.

 

I am a tank, and I am good at it. The numbers are pointless. If you see something attacking your sniper, well drop a taunt and keep on tanking. Seriously, it is all about paying attention, not watching a stupid little numerical representation.

 

^^^This!

[Dazgra]

ITT: people who have not tanked at a high level

[Necrosia]

I miss Omen

[Ancientwolfgr]

That's not my question. Get your own thread.

 

You can't answer my question. You just want to thump your chest. I get it.

 

Ok, Ill play. Its invisible because they say so.

 

That wasn't hard at all.

[Gerrard_Ennui]

You know, some of us have tanked for years with our only "threat meter" being a healer running in crazy circles. There was a time before WoW, before you could solo past level 10, when even a mob 4 levels below you could destroy you, back when you actually had to (Wait for Iiiitt!) Pay attention to what You were doing. Why exactly do you need to be told that you're not holding aggro? I promise you, if you're not, the healer will let you know. And if you are a DPS, you have the best aggro indicator in the game; it's called having your face eaten by the mob.

I bet you've been driving for years too. Do you check your speed in the speedometer when you drive? Or do you 'pay attention' to your speed without using numerical or graphical data to represent it? Are you only aware that you've exceeded the speed limit when you collide with another car? Just wondering. Edited February 2, 2012 by Gerrard_Ennui

[Dazgra]

I just don't understand this attitude. For some reason people think they're SUPERIOR PLAYERS because they don't use addons. It really is hilarious.

[Ancientwolfgr]

I just don't understand this attitude. For some reason people think they're SUPERIOR PLAYERS because they don't use addons. It really is hilarious.

 

Same can be said for those that do. It can be likened to needing a device to accomplish a task that everyone is fully capable of performing already. Like sex.

[Monomarchos]

Wow, crazy thread. To toss in my two cents, I played a prot pally in WoW (didn't raid much, mainly 5-mans) and I never really used a threat *meter*. Rather, I used TidyPlates with ThreatPlates. That changed the color and size of mobs' nameplates depending on how much threat I had on the mob. Green and small, plenty of threat/cushion. Yellow and medium, still have highest threat but someone else is getting very close to pulling the mob off me. Red and large, attacking someone else. Simple and elegant without the need for numbers bouncing around or another frame with a list of ever-changing numbers.

[Dazgra]

Wow, crazy thread. To toss in my two cents, I played a prot pally in WoW (didn't raid much, mainly 5-mans) and I never really used a threat *meter*. Rather, I used TidyPlates with ThreatPlates. That changed the color and size of mobs' nameplates depending on how much threat I had on the mob. Green and small, plenty of threat/cushion. Yellow and medium, still have highest threat but someone else is getting very close to pulling the mob off me. Red and large, attacking someone else. Simple and elegant without the need for numbers bouncing around or another frame with a list of ever-changing numbers.

 

Why are you even posting if you don't have any raiding experience? How would you know whether or not we need threat meters if you've never been in a position in which they are required (eg. patchwerk).

[Massimoto]

Cough..

The idea of threat meters is not to reassure the tank that he/she has aggro as it's obvious to see when you are being pounded on by the boss mob.

 

The concept of threat meters is meant to be used by the DPS group members, so they can see when they need to take a breather in spamming those buttons.

 

Currently it's clear to see who has the aggro but nobody can see how much aggro you have.

 

I've always hated the damage meters in WoW, but not having threat meters is folly.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Massimoto

[discosoc]

Threat in this game is all out of whack. I swear there is an RNG involved with it somewhere.

[Monomarchos]

Why are you even posting if you don't have any raiding experience? How would you know whether or not we need threat meters if you've never been in a position in which they are required (eg. patchwerk).

 

I said "didn't raid much", not "didn't raid at all". I understand the need for threat, I just never had a problem given the simple use of Threat Plates. Worked perfectly well for me. I was only using my experience as a way of illustrating another possible route for TOR to show threat without having to add clutter. YMMV.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Monomarchos

[Dazgra]

I said "didn't raid much", not "didn't raid at all". I understand the need for threat, I just never had a problem given the simple use of Threat Plates. Worked perfectly well for me. I was only using my experience as a way of illustrating another possible route for TOR to show threat without having to add clutter. YMMV.

 

Threat meters aren't for the tank...

[Monomarchos]

Threat meters aren't for the tank...

 

No, but Threat Plates was also perfectly viable for use when I played as ret (I know) or with my warlock.

[Srqt]

No. Apparently, they didn't require game designers either.

 

Anyone have a game design answer to the actual question in this thread? Or would more young males like to posture now?

 

Because, obviously, some people don't want it. The Devs of this game side with those people and did not include it.

[VanniSilvante]

FFS.

 

You do realize, OP, that threat has always been invisible until someone came up for the addon for WoW right? Lots of MMO's have invisible threat.

 

Learn to tank.

[Dazgra]

ffs.

 

You do realize, op, that threat has always been invisible until someone came up for the addon for wow right? Lots of mmo's have invisible threat.

 

Learn to tank.

threat meters are for the dps

Edited February 2, 2012 by Notannos
spam

[Fezzhan]

A threat meter are just required in raid... In normal instances\flashpoints here arent needed.

I think this game is, by now, not so difficult to require a threat meter..