NekoWAR Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Anni spec mara here. Just got out of a warzone with 550k damage and 110k healing, more than twice the damage of the next person in the WZ and 2nd in healing. That was a solo Q game with no pocket healing, against a team with 2 battlemasters and a bunch of champ geared players. I also got 28 killing blows and most objective scores. 550k damage and only 28 killing blows? Ok, if their team consisted of healers and tanks, but you claim to be second in healing chart... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warlordomega Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) 550k damage and only 28 killing blows? Ok, if their team consisted of healers and tanks, but you claim to be second in healing chart... think about what your saying b4 you speak pls... its very possible... he may only have 28 kb's but he may have had 238746824628346 kills meaning someone else got a lucky hit in.....aka he could been adding bleeds to everyone yet someone else finished them off... Edited February 2, 2012 by Warlordomega Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathTouchIG Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) 550k damage and only 28 killing blows? Ok, if their team consisted of healers and tanks, but you claim to be second in healing chart... Mid 50's in total kills. From what I remember they had 3-4 healers or hybrid spec sorcs. We won the game by pushing to the 3rd set of doors in the full time allotted, whereas they were unable to push past the first set. Our team had one full-spec healer, who I think got something like 250k healing. Their team gave a decent effort of focusing me but combined with my decent teammates and 40% crit/89% surge (with OP buff/biochem) and 550 expertise + defensive CDs + berserk every 30s or less my sustain was too much for them to deal with. Maras become absurdly powerful with higher levels, and even moreso when supported by a healer. I pretty much always solo Q, and am quite surprised at this point if I don't manage to get top damage in a warzone by a considerable margain and 75k+ heals in a full-length game, even if my teammates are significantly undergeared. The class is absolutely fine at upper gear levels, and is probably OP given a pocket healer. One of the few times I did have a pocket healer in a match I had something absurd like 650+ DPS for a 6-minute huttball round in which we stomped the other side. Pocket healing with maras allows you to keep annihilate up with 3 stacks constantly because you never have to disengage. Coupled with faster Fury generation and constant DOT applications, the single target pressure you can apply is incredible. Edited February 2, 2012 by deathTouchIG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warlordomega Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Mid 50's in total kills. he cant distinguish kb's and kills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crimsonki Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 death seems a compulsive liar and or one of those marauder trolls. Hey guis I did 900k damageses in dis warzone PLEASE NERF US Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathTouchIG Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) death seems a compulsive liar and or one of those marauder trolls. Hey guis I did 900k damageses in dis warzone PLEASE NERF US Starting tomorrow I'm going to compile screenshots of these results, which I will happily post once I get 10 or so. Give me a day or so. It's annoying taking screenshots on a bootcamped Macbook Pro but I downloaded a screencap program and will do it anyway. I'm tired of people saying this class sucks. In the meantime, feel free to watch this dude: http://www.twitch.tv/glutenfreegaming I'm not the only one who can routinely achieve high damage with the class with post-lvl50 gear. As long as someone can achieve expected results with a given class and spec, it no longer becomes an issue of whether or not the class is "broken", but rather an issue of those who are not successful with the class to learn what they themselves can do to improve their play and match the results of their higher-performing peers. Edited February 2, 2012 by deathTouchIG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmonSWTOR Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Lucky this thread is about people pulling numbers in Warzones...oh wait, its not. Back to thoughts about the changes, away with me be pulling huge numberz please. So yeah, its all about the 30% critdamage beeing added or multiplied, wonder if we can get a statment about that issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warlordomega Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) death seems a compulsive liar and or one of those marauder trolls. Hey guis I did 900k damageses in dis warzone PLEASE NERF US why? many mara's pull over 500k iv seen some over 600k? just because u fail at it doesnt mean others do or that they are auto liars... hell iv seen sorcs do 700k+... i hate being that guy but get some skill bro Edited February 2, 2012 by Warlordomega Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crimsonki Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Starting tomorrow I'm going to compile screenshots of these results, which I will happily post once I get 10 or so. Give me a day or so. It's annoying taking screenshots on a bootcamped Macbook Pro but I downloaded a screencap program and will do it anyway. I'm tired of people saying this class sucks. In the meantime, feel free to watch this dude: http://www.twitch.tv/glutenfreegaming I'm not the only one who can routinely achieve high damage with the class with post-lvl50 gear. As long as someone can achieve expected results with a given class and spec, it no longer becomes an issue of whether or not the class is "broken", but rather an issue of those who are not successful with the class to learn what they themselves can do to improve their play and match the results of their higher-performing peers. I've pulled higher numbers then you in non-premades with non-bm saber.... Infact I've pulled higher numbers then you with no healers on my team and a laggy 15 fps computer... I pissed myself from irony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathTouchIG Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) Lucky this thread is about people pulling numbers in Warzones...oh wait, its not. Back to thoughts about the changes, away with me be pulling huge numberz please. So yeah, its all about the 30% critdamage beeing added or multiplied, wonder if we can get a statment about that issue. Just follow this thread: http://sithwarrior.com/forums/Thread-Annihilation-Watchmen-Compendium?page=3 Information from that source is typically much higher quality than what you would expect on these forums. Regardless, my point still stands. The OP actually originally posted about the fact that BW was buffing the maras. Regardless of whether they successfully have done so in this patch or not, their fault lies in their intent to buff the marauder. BW should look at buffing the carnage spec, which is eclipsed in nearly every category by anni currently (sustained DPS, healing, party utility, even burst...the only thing it really has over anni is additional control/CC and mobility), and will be even moreso overlooked if anni is buffed. Edited February 2, 2012 by deathTouchIG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crimsonki Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Just follow this thread: http://sithwarrior.com/forums/Thread-Annihilation-Watchmen-Compendium?page=3 Information from that source is typically much higher quality than what you would expect on these forums. Regardless, my point still stands. The OP actually originally posted about the fact that BW was buffing the maras. Regardless of whether they successfully have done so in this patch or not, their fault lies in their intent to buff the marauder. BW should look at buffing the carnage spec, which is eclipsed in nearly every category by anni currently (sustained DPS, healing, party utility, even burst...the only thing it really has over anni is additional control/CC and mobility), and will be even moreso overlooked if anni is buffed. Carnage only needs ataru form proc boost. I've hit well over the 300k dmg medal alot with carnage and I've really only been using this build a few days. You can kill more with less dmg as carnage if you know how to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathTouchIG Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) death seems a compulsive liar and or one of those marauder trolls. Hey guis I did 900k damageses in dis warzone PLEASE NERF US I've pulled higher numbers then you in non-premades with non-bm saber.... Infact I've pulled higher numbers then you with no healers on my team and a laggy 15 fps computer... I pissed myself from irony. Edited February 2, 2012 by deathTouchIG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crimsonki Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Not all players are created equally, especially ones who reject the notion that they can improve their own play and instead blame the mechanics of the system. I'm sorry but game balancing cannot ever be achieved when it is done so to appease the lowest common denominator of players. You're pretty good.... For a baddie. You stream needs less premades and pocket healers for me to take you seriously. That and your elitist snob demeanor twords other players makes me sick. Go choke on some gluten. Hold that thought I'll report myself before you report me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmonSWTOR Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Just follow this thread: http://sithwarrior.com/forums/Thread-Annihilation-Watchmen-Compendium?page=3 Information from that source is typically much higher quality than what you would expect on these forums. Regardless, my point still stands. The OP actually originally posted about the fact that BW was buffing the maras. Regardless of whether they successfully have done so in this patch or not, their fault lies in their intent to buff the marauder. BW should look at buffing the carnage spec, which is eclipsed in nearly every category by anni currently (sustained DPS, healing, party utility, even burst...the only thing it really has over anni is additional control/CC and mobility), and will be even moreso overlooked if anni is buffed. That thread has the exact same posts we are refering to here, nothing be seen there. They also didnt intend to buff us, simply changing things to how they should be seemed to end up in a slight buff, which is, as we can see now, either true or not. That still doesnt change the fact that this thread isnt about someone pulling numbers, im interested in what that change actually does for us, not in your numbers in w/e spec on w/e Warzone. Feel free to post all u want about your damage and prove those people annoying u wrong, just please, not in here. Derailed threads about actually useful stuff are not helpful to anyone imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathTouchIG Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 You're pretty good.... For a baddie. You stream needs less premades and pocket healers for me to take you seriously. That and your elitist snob demeanor twords other players makes me sick. Go choke on some gluten. Hold that thought I'll report myself before you report me. That's not my stream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deathTouchIG Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) That thread has the exact same posts we are refering to here, nothing be seen there. They also didnt intend to buff us, simply changing things to how they should be seemed to end up in a slight buff, which is, as we can see now, either true or not. That still doesnt change the fact that this thread isnt about someone pulling numbers, im interested in what that change actually does for us, not in your numbers in w/e spec on w/e Warzone. Feel free to post all u want about your damage and prove those people annoying u wrong, just please, not in here. Derailed threads about actually useful stuff are not helpful to anyone imo. Honestly, unless someone has access to the information in the data files it's going to be hard to figure out before it's released. There's really too much speculation floating around about what is and is not happening with the "old" and "new" systems. If someone has access to the new and old data on how these values are calculated that would eliminate uncertainty as to how the "old" and "new" system are performing calculations. Until that is released it's basically a bunch of people posting what they *think* is going on, and making assumptions about what numbers are bugged and what numbers aren't, and how those numbers are calculated, with no supporting empirical data to substantiate their theory or disprove the theories presented by others. That's why I think a discussion of whether or not the marauder should even be buffed in the first place would be a much more fruitful exercise, as per the original posts in the thread. Edited February 2, 2012 by deathTouchIG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AmonSWTOR Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) Honestly, unless someone has access to the information in the data files it's going to be hard to figure out before it's released. There's really too much speculation floating around about what is and is not happening with the "old" and "new" systems. If someone has access to the new and old data on how these values are calculated that would eliminate uncertainty as to how the "old" and "new" system are performing calculations. Until then we got people testing things, making assuptions, which are supposed to get us a reaction from BW and thats all we need. I dont thing anyone ever had infromations as deep as such calculations, not here, not in other games either. If we should be buffed or not was never the subject here tho, its all about fixing some stuff and what that might do to us. I wanna know if its a nerf or a buff, not if we needed to be buffed. So if it really turns out to be a buff, its really small, so also nothing to disscuss imo, its rather irrelevant. Tho if its indeed a nerf, its a whole other thing. Simply cause the nerf would be (as in percentual damage change) much higher than the buff we might get, if its the other way. Edited February 2, 2012 by AmonSWTOR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryxxi Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Game 1: http://i732.photobucket.com/albums/ww326/kot0005/swtor/223.jpg http://i732.photobucket.com/albums/ww326/kot0005/swtor/224.jpg Game 2: http://i732.photobucket.com/albums/ww326/kot0005/swtor/225.jpg http://i732.photobucket.com/albums/ww326/kot0005/swtor/226.jpg both on the same day, level 50 bracker,anni,8.63% expertise,4/5 champ, non pvp weapon/bracers/helm. Am not sure how the new bug fixes will affect us but i would rather like the other bugs fixeed like ravage,smash etc before changing the talents.... according to the guy with the math the new system will come ahead of the old one only when the crit % is 98+ but i dont understand what bioware is thinking because with berserk and the juyo form stacks increasing crit chance, crit on gear isnt worth over power and surge at all..... but then with the new changes , what will happen to crit......hmm am lost...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osium Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Mid 50's in total kills. From what I remember they had 3-4 healers or hybrid spec sorcs. We won the game by pushing to the 3rd set of doors in the full time allotted, whereas they were unable to push past the first set. Our team had one full-spec healer, who I think got something like 250k healing. Their team gave a decent effort of focusing me but combined with my decent teammates and 40% crit/89% surge (with OP buff/biochem) and 550 expertise + defensive CDs + berserk every 30s or less my sustain was too much for them to deal with. Maras become absurdly powerful with higher levels, and even moreso when supported by a healer. I pretty much always solo Q, and am quite surprised at this point if I don't manage to get top damage in a warzone by a considerable margain and 75k+ heals in a full-length game, even if my teammates are significantly undergeared. The class is absolutely fine at upper gear levels, and is probably OP given a pocket healer. One of the few times I did have a pocket healer in a match I had something absurd like 650+ DPS for a 6-minute huttball round in which we stomped the other side. Pocket healing with maras allows you to keep annihilate up with 3 stacks constantly because you never have to disengage. Coupled with faster Fury generation and constant DOT applications, the single target pressure you can apply is incredible. Playing baddies this is possible. The moment you run into a solid Sage/Sorc they can and will CC you out of a match. The root on their knock back is the single biggest **** block in the game for a Sent/Marauder. You can't trinket it for obvious reasons. By the time you can make contact again you will be CC'd off the healer, again. Now, you can forget about the free casting sage or sorc in the back healing the holy bejesus out of everyone and wrack up 100% uptime and inflate your DPS total on guys you're slowly killing. That however isn't a very effective use of your DPS. That said most Sages and Sorcs are dumpsters. In short, the only way you put up those numbers is against terrible players who resolve lock you constantly for no real reason. Against proper players, you will either be content to DPS melee's trying to DPS you, or you will spend a whole lot of time knocked back and rooted, or knocked back and snared, itching to trinket but knowing it is a quick ticket to a whirlwind or a force lift. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilianor Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 @Ryxxi Sick, so annhi is that ******? I'll try it out later! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precurso Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 how surprising to see the subject derailed by forum celebrity wannabes posting their scores and screenshots (NOT) back on the subject, if anyone places the numbers on excel you'll see this is roughly a 7-8% nerf in bleed dmg overall. Patch note saying "dps will increase" is a blatant lie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tmbn Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Wow! I am so glad that we finally got some love. I hope this will give us the boost we need. Still we need some other skills for PVP and still the other trees need not be looked at. Anyhow! This is very good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosmasterkiller Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 i was reading this thread and doing my own bad math, but then i decided to double check some things in game where is this 4% instead of 6% for hemorrhage coming from? Hemorrhage only affects Rupture and Deadly Saber ticks, not Annihilation or any other weapon based or force based attacks. It is bleed effect only. The tooltip says 6%, but after testing we have found it to be closer to 4%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosmasterkiller Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 how surprising to see the subject derailed by forum celebrity wannabes posting their scores and screenshots (NOT) Join us at http://sithwarrior.com where intelligent discussion lives. We can moderate out the people that contribute nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pappus Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) You only gain 30% crit to dot damage, not all damage. You don't gain 11% to all damage (where did you come up with this from??). Adjust the crit chance and crit multiplier and you will see you will still not get more damage from the new system. The post shows simplification of the problem. Let's use your numbers and re-run them. 131 base damage 46% crit chance 118% crit multiplier Old system: 131 * 1.3 * 1.04 = 177 normal dot 131 * 1.3 * 1.04 * 2.18 = 386 critical dot New system: 131 * 1.15 = 151 normal dot 131 * 1.15 * 2.48 = 373.6 critical dot What you are trying to prove is the exact opposite. The more critical multiplier you have actually benefits the old system better. You will do less damage in 1.1.2. You don't chain multiply, because it just leads to wrong results. Edited February 2, 2012 by Pappus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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