Crafting Profession Changes in patch 1.1.2

[Felioats]

I'm a Cybertech and I'd like to sell the speeders I make. Please remove the bound on pick-up, so I can do this. Thanks.

 

I like having them as exclusive mounts for Cybertechs, so I guess there's that.

[Powerhowse]

Nice job. You missed the point.

 

No it doesn't mean that pve gear instantly becomes the best gear for pvp. Expertise currently makes even raid gear pointless in high end pvp.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Powerhowse

[Kakokun]

No it doesn't mean that pve gear instantly becomes the best gear for pvp. Expertise currently makes even raid gear pointless in high end pvp.

 

It's like that now.

 

But guess what happens when you nerf it! Oh yeah that's right..

 

Say hello to PvE heroes!

Edited February 2, 2012 by Kakokun

[Narfwak]

Being able to crit crafting gear just adds another layer of customization restriction. Instead of being stuck with PvE/PvP gear as it is, now we are forced to acquire a piece of crafted gear with an augment slot - nevermind that many of the best looking armor in the game is either a random world drop or acquired from a vendor.

 

It's a stupid change.

[ikinai]

What are all these pvpers doing in a crafting thread? Go complain in another thread.

 

Personally I like the ideas so far. But, as has been brought up, we need more variety in looks that can be orange crafted. As to the mastercrafted gear, if we are able to pull out the mods, does this mean we can put some back in? So that some of the more unique looking low level mastercrafted gear can still be used later on that do not have a corresponding orange pattern for them?

 

I'm thinking more along he lines of Armstech, there are some pretty nice looking weapons that I've only seen the models used for very low level weapons and haven't seen the model used after that. Which is too bad, as some of them I really liked and wanted to use.

[harkain]

Ok, but WE don't, and mind you i'm a battlemaster in almost full CENTURION, yeah CENTURION gear, a couple of pieces of CHAMPION and 1 (ONE) single BATTLEMASTER piece, and going like so for 2 weeks now.

 

Are you telling me that my pursuit for power is over? if that's the case i have no business here, sorry.

 

battlemaster means NOTHING, its says NOTHING of your actual pvp efforts and how long you do it, ALL it tells us is that most likely you where one of the ilum spawn kill abusers.

 

Battlemaster post that patch means 0, no respect, no validity to pvp claims or gear qq.

[Powerhowse]

It's like that now.

 

But guess what happens when you nerf it! Oh yeah that's right..

 

Say hello to PvE heroes!

 

So they can't nerf it to make it equal or close to equal, interesting...

Edited February 2, 2012 by Powerhowse

[Thug-Ra]

Hi,

 

I wanted to drop some notes on the changes made to the BioChem profession in the patch (1.1.2) that just went onto the Public Test Server, how they fit in the big picture and how we are proceeding forward with crafting professions in endgame in general.

 

First off, we removed the requirement to have the BioChem profession to use Energized and Exotech stims and adrenals. This was done to (a) remove pressure of players to pick up BioChem for optimal combat performance and (b) to open up the sale of BioChem products to a larger audience on the Galactic Trade Network.

 

Additionally, we've reduced the effectiveness of the BioChem exclusive Rakata Stimpacks to be equal to Energized stimpacks. Their intended benefit is the cost savings they provide over time, not an increase in power. We are also in progress of reviewing the creation costs of many consumables in the game against the economic realities (acquisition cost of purple mission materials on our live servers) and will likely make adjustments to these in the future.

 

It is our intention to gradually, over multiple patches, reduce the impact of situational consumables on endgame combat resolution and shift the factors which determine the outcome of combat more towards personal skill. As part of this effort, specifically for PvP, we are also working on changes that will reduce the gear related power difference between new characters at level 50 and players in full PvP gear. We feel that at the current time, this difference is too high.

 

On a more general note about crafting, our changes to make BioChem consumables freely tradeable are just a small first step as part of a larger scale effort to extend our crafting gameplay, for all professions, into the endgame.

 

Major changes are currently on schedule for the next major content patch, such as extractable basemods (armoring, barrel, etc.) from purple items, critical crafting successes on orange outfits, more bind-on-equip schematic drops for artifice and other professions, increased relevance of augments, better reverse engineering chance, and other improvements. We want to create significant incentive for players to engage in the crafting economy – as provider of goods or supplier - without requiring players to take up a specific profession as a ticket into endgame.

 

Long term, our plan is to evolve Star Wars: The Old Republic’s game economy to a more player driven model, strengthen and improve the GTN and embrace the game’s extensive appearance customization throughout the game. We have a long list of improvements planned for that but we’re also anxious to hear from you. Feel free to use this thread to give us your feedback on the topic!

 

Regards

Georg

 

Thank you.

 

These are brilliant changes.

 

Might I also suggest reducing the quality of the mods from Ilum dailies? It really burns my *** seeing things available from daily quests that are better than anything players can make.

[BlackMink]

I must say I am once again greatly dissapointed. Just like you did to the rakata medpack, you are completely killing the end rewards for biochem.

 

As it stands, the rakata medpack is a joke after being nerfed. I can get the same amount of healing from the top green medpack. The fact that it is reusable is not a perk of the rakata medpack, as the reusable ultimate medpack is also provides the same healing and is reusable. The breif 15% health buff the rakata gives is the only unique thing it has, and that's completely worthless. If I hit my medpack, it's because I am nowhere near full health, and therefore this buff isn't doing anything for me. I am now actually better off using the blue 'prototype ultimate medpack' than anything else, and there is something very wrong with that.

 

Now, you are similarly nerfing my stims as well. What is even the point of Rakata biochem items now? Rakata items are supposed to be the best items in the game. I don't see you nerfing the crafted Rakata armor pieces down to Tionese level. I don't see you nerfing those awsome Rakata crafted relics down to the level of the normal crafted ones.

 

All Rakata items need to stand head and shoulders above the rest, or there is no point.

[GamewizX]

Georg, what about set bonuses? You made mention awhile back about them being able to be moved from endgame PvE and PvP gear to the custom gear of your choice. Is that happening at a later time?

[Powerhowse]

Georg, what about set bonuses? You made mention awhile back about them being able to be moved from endgame PvE and PvP gear to the custom gear of your choice. Is that happening at a later time?

 

That probably comes with the armoring mod that you can take off the gear.

[ikinai]

I must say I am once again greatly dissapointed. Just like you did to the rakata medpack, you are completely killing the end rewards for biochem.

 

As it stands, the rakata medpack is a joke after being nerfed. I can get the same amount of healing from the top green medpack. The fact that it is reusable is not a perk of the rakata medpack, as the reusable ultimate medpack is also provides the same healing and is reusable. The breif 15% health buff the rakata gives is the only unique thing it has, and that's completely worthless. If I hit my medpack, it's because I am nowhere near full health, and therefore this buff isn't doing anything for me. I am now actually better off using the blue 'prototype ultimate medpack' than anything else, and there is something very wrong with that.

 

Now, you are similarly nerfing my stims as well. What is even the point of Rakata biochem items now? Rakata items are supposed to be the best items in the game. I don't see you nerfing the crafted Rakata armor pieces down to Tionese level. I don't see you nerfing those awsome Rakata crafted relics down to the level of the normal crafted ones.

 

All Rakata items need to stand head and shoulders above the rest, or there is no point.

 

They are reusable? That would seem to be an advantage there. And no, they don't need to stand head and shoulders above the rest.

[MartyMacGraves]

I have been armorcrafting since release, and I have reverse engineered my way to a couple of "top of the line" tanking pieces. So far, I am completely underwhelmed. These items are not as good as the gear you can get much more easily from PVP and PVE rewards, including customizable gear with the mods you can easily get from daily quests. The only use for Armorcrafting, that I can currently see, is to make items that help players gear up while leveling. This is a major disappointment to me. All crew skills should include something needed by end-game players.

 

To anyone reading this that might be currently considering Armorcrafting: do not take it. Currently, it is a waste of your time and resources.

[Kakokun]

So they can't nerf it to make it equal, interesting...

 

You don't nerf the strongest gear. You make craftable items with expertise and add cheap entry level PvP gear. Neither of which exists at the moment.

 

The issue with fresh 50's in PvP is expertise. A stat that is requires in PvP but can only be gained randomly or though a grind that is so slow that by the time you can get any you'll have access to battlemaster gear.

[Starbuckx]

This is all very well Georg, but how long is it going to be before you make wholesale changes to the PvP system and introduce new pvp content?

 

All of these things should have been in place and bug free from launch.

 

They game is boring already due to lack of content and system...nothing here will change it.

 

Saying this I do welcome the changes...I always like a game to be fairer and not make gear a pre-req to fun.

 

Making a **** game fairer is still a **** game though....

[BakyraBA]

This is plain dumb. Biochem was at a really good place. Not at an overpowered state, it was a rightful bonus for having the proffession. Instead of NERFING the one crew skill that was good, you should have BUFFED the rest to be equally intresting / attractive.

 

The first thing you notice is that people with reusable stims will have more stats than other skills. Solution 1: Give crafted items extra stats when worn by the craftee. He can still sell good loot to the rest of the population, but he can also wear them himself for extra stats.

 

The next thing is adrenals. Solution 2: Make biochem produce up to blue quality adrenals in bulk instead of 1 by 1 and there will be an adrenal market (I'd gladly buy bulks of adrenals if they are afforable by both myself and the crafter). This could also apply to medpacks!

[Jericco]

Will artifice changes happen in 1.1.2 or on next patch in march?

Because would like to be clear and get confirmation about that.

Since without any schematics atm it's hard to sell anything especially with dailies that give same items anyway. None schematics drops (except magenta crystal) not even in ops, so want to know when fix for that will happen.

 

Peace

[endikux]

This is great news. It's good to hear that BioChem and crafting in general is still being examined and improved towards a more functional big scheme of things.

 

It's also great news, contrary to some of the backlash, that PVP gear is being addressed. Frankly I would still advocate for the abolishment of the expertise stat completely; but the fact that the wide gear gap of new players vs old is even acknowledged by the devs is a very good sign.

[tengaugeslinky]

Let me explain this for all of you casuals out there. I leveled to 60 valor in warzones. I did level 59-60 in one day, which was like 48000 valor. If you get 10 medals a game and win you get 1500 valor per game. Best case scenario, I played 32 warzones that day. I can't even remember because there were so many. The point is, I and everyone else who did the grind legit had to play warzones over and over and over and over.

 

We like pvp. It is extremely fun to win close games with people who have similar gear and skill. But, you bastards need to put even a fraction of the time we have in before you complain about getting rolled.

 

To fix pvp, three things need to happen, none of which are nerfing our gear. Valor gains from Ilum since that stupid patch need to be removed for EVERYONE. RNG gear from bags is horrible, it needs to be removed. Commendation cost of pvp gear needs to go way down.

 

A champion helmet costs 67 commendations. This means opening 23 battlemaster bags. You get 2 bm bags per day, with 2 more each week. You are looking at 10 days to farm one piece through commendations. But if you are lucky you can just open one champion bag and just get the piece.

 

If this pvp system was not developed by a bunch of idiots, they would have realized they needed to make centurion gear MUCH easier to obtain (the tier 1 should not be harder to get then the tier 2), make champion gear not grow on trees for anyone willing to put in the SLIGHTEST amount of effort in pvp, and make battlemaster gear a reward for anyone who put in the large time investment.

 

No one important will read this. But I don't care, I am not giving them any more money.

[Starbuckx]

You'd also better be nerfing PvE gear in line with any changes to PvP gear, otherwise you'll screw this game up even more.

 

Players will always find a way to get an advantage if that means you need to grind operations instead of warzones to get a gear advantage people will do it.

 

Be very careful not to screw this game up even more.

[DarthOvertone]

This was done to (a) remove pressure of players to pick up BioChem for optimal combat performance and (b) to open up the sale of BioChem products to a larger audience on the Galactic Trade Network.

 

Honestly, I don't care if you nerf Biochem into oblivion, but this constant nerfing of the profession isn't the solution. The problem isn't that Biochem is too powerful. The problem is that the other professions are not powerful enough and don't have a relevant endgame impact. If you guys really want to bring Biochem in line, you need to boost the other professions. You could nerf Biochem into the dirt and it will still be the profession of choice as things stand, simply because the other professions don't matter at endgame.

 

It is our intention to gradually, over multiple patches, reduce the impact of situational consumables on endgame combat resolution and shift the factors which determine the outcome of combat more towards personal skill. As part of this effort, specifically for PvP, we are also working on changes that will reduce the gear related power difference between new characters at level 50 and players in full PvP gear. We feel that at the current time, this difference is too high.

 

I like what you proposed above. However, before this will work, you need to properly mirror the classes and fix some of the broken mechanics that exist for some classes. For example, my Shadow's Project is borked. The skill suffers from a significant animation delay and our Particle Acceleration proc is broken. This skill has been borked since launch and is a bread-and-butter offensive skill for the class:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=29235

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=209979

 

Until this is corrected, the class will have a built-in disadvantage to its mirror on the other side who has an insta-cast for their bread and butter skill with no bugs in its procs. I'm sure other classes have similar issues.

 

And I didn't see any mention about endgame PvP. I am on my first alt right now and will, undoubtedly, be capped out within a month (if my first toon is any indication of gameplay). I primarily play MMOs for endgame content, and while I recognize that SWTOR just launched, I can only alt for so long. When I play a toon, I take it all the way. Fortunately for SWTOR, the story and leveling content really is exceptional and makes alting more fun than the chore it is in other games. However, I only have one or two more alts left in me.

 

I don't think we need more content so much as we need better endgame objective PvP. As you are probably aware, PvP content is probably the cheapest to create because it is dynamic. You give us a sandbox of sorts and we the players make it different every time. Give us a competitive backdrop for our PvP. Give us a Combat Log, Leaderboards (Class, Guild, Faction), Ranked WZ Matches, and quest/objectives that encourage more actual fighting. The Ilum daily changes were a step in the right direction. Notice that all of my suggestions don't require you to create more content per se. All you guys would have to do is make some wrappers for metrics that already exist in the game.

 

For the first expansion, I would like to see true Planetary PvP, but I will save that suggestion for another post. Anyway, would be nice to see some of this come to fruition. Presently, I don't see myself in this game longer than six months given its endgame shortcomings. I really would like to make SWTOR a home and play it for years to come as I did my previous favorite MMO. I don't think I'm asking too much. I want to give you guys my money, but you don't seem to want it.

[Uruare]

We have no intention of forcing PvP players to do Operations and vice versa.

 

 

So why do you force crafters to be raiders?

 

Unless this statement, by exclusion, hinges in its basis on that nobody is technically forced to do anything, in which case your statement is true in all cases, not just PVP/Raiding crossing.

 

Being as that this is a crafting profession thread, I am very interested in why it is acceptable to functionally force crafters that wish to be fully viable to farm hardmode FPs as well as farm raids, but determine, statedly, that there is no intention of functionally forcing PVPers to raid, or PVE'ers to PVP.

[chton]

 

To spell it out: We currently have no intention to modify the stats on existing PvP gear downwards (which I assume you mean by 'nerf'). Nobody has talked about eliminating the gap between old level 50s and new level 50s either.

 

-- Georg

 

The question is why not? So now I have no reason to bother PVPing as a new 50. I hope you geared out guys enjoy fighting each other. I have no problem with people getting all geared out, by the same token I have no intention of being anyone's punching bag.

[Slaign]

I created a thread about my ideas, but I wanted to share them here, too.

I've had some ideas, and I'd like to share them with you. I think these ideas would turn SWTOR's crafting system from intriguing and novel to the sort of system one brings up any time crafting in MMOs comes up, and they are all based on systems already in the game. I'm not suggesting these would be easy to implement, I'm not a systems programmer, but the groundwork is there.

Step 1: Expand Reverse Engineering

 

Right now, Reverse Engineering equip-able items results in 18 (19 with the missing Tier 2 Prefix) variations on each item learned from a crafting trainer or schematic. The way the system seems to work right now is that there is one base item, and the improved items are generated by the system rather than stored in an item database.

 

This means there is a system in the game that could take every item in the game and create 19 variations of it without clogging up the item database. I suggest we use it to do just that. How?

 

Simple, allow crafters to learn to craft any item in the game by reverse engineering it. If a crafter Reverse Engineers an item they do not know the schematic for, they learn the schematic for the base item. From there, crafting and reverse engineering the item would produce the variations as seen with the current system.

 

Do this for every item in the game, from quest rewards to raid drops. Allow crafters to find any item their profession can make, reverse engineer it, learn to make it, and learn to make it better.

Step 2: Free Market

 

Now of course, this idea means the best gear in the game will always come from crafting. This means when a raid kills a boss and it drops the items, the only way to get the most out of them is to Reverse Engineer them up to the best possible version.

 

This would be bad news, because then every Jedi would have to take Synthweaving and work hard at it to have the best gear he could, and that wouldn't be fair or balanced. I think this can be easily fixed with one simple change, however.

 

Remove Bind on Pickup. Make all items freely trade-able. When a guild downs a boss, they give the item to their crafter of the appropriate profession, and this crafter can work to improve the item and equip his guild with the best gear. People who don't craft can commission work from those who do.

 

Of course, items would still become bound upon equipping them so as to prevent flooding the market with used items.

 

Now, perhaps raiders would dislike the idea of non raiders perhaps being able to buy raid level equipment without having done the raid. While I personally support a completely free market, I see two solutions to this if it's seen as a problem.

 

First, you could make the base items still BoP. This would mean the only way to learn to make the item is to defeat the raid. While the improved items would still be freely trade-able, this would keep them rare, costly, and the raiders would benefit from being the only ones able to craft and sell the items.

 

If you want to be more stringent, you could implement a system where the items are freely trade-able, but you must have defeated the boss from which the base item comes from in order to equip the items crafted from it. Call it being Attuned to the item. Put a little note on the item that says "Requires Boss-Name Attuned."

 

Step 3: Open The Floodgates on Custom Items

 

Now that we've allowed crafters to learn to make and improve upon every item in the game, make it easier for them to then learn to make Custom versions of all of these items. Instead of relying on mission skills to receive custom schematics, allow a crafter to learn to make a custom version of any item by reverse engineering a Tier 2 version of said item.

 

Find an item you like in the wild? Reverse Engineer it to learn to make it. Then Reverse Engineer it to it's ultimate form. Finally, Reverse Engineer that to learn to produce a Custom shell of it.

In Summation:

 

This would take a cool crafting system and turn it into an amazing player driven economy of research, development, exploration, and development. No two characters would look alike, nor be equipped alike. Players would have exceptional access to customization both in terms of stats and appearance. It would turn crafting into a focal point of the game, and empower players. It would create an overwhelming variety of options and an engaging economy.

 

Imagine a world in which every item has 20 variations and it is up to players to find, create, and sell them. Guilds could create businesses based on tackling raid bosses and supplying top level equipment. Explorers could hunt down unique graphics in far off corners of the universe and bring them to market. Crafters would have an endless supply of things to learn, do, and sell without ever getting bored doing the same old thing.

 

I know it would be a huge and ambitious change, and it would have the potential to really change the focus of the game, but I honestly believe it would impact the game in a really good way. Imagine the intrigue and attraction it would add to the game if there were a player driven economy like this.

 

I know it's asking a lot BioWare, but please, think about it.

 

Original thread: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=2450851

[Starbuckx]

Let me explain this for all of you casuals out there. I leveled to 60 valor in warzones. I did level 59-60 in one day, which was like 48000 valor. If you get 10 medals a game and win you get 1500 valor per game. Best case scenario, I played 32 warzones that day. I can't even remember because there were so many. The point is, I and everyone else who did the grind legit had to play warzones over and over and over and over.

 

We like pvp. It is extremely fun to win close games with people who have similar gear and skill. But, you bastards need to put even a fraction of the time we have in before you complain about getting rolled.

 

To fix pvp, three things need to happen, none of which are nerfing our gear. Valor gains from Ilum since that stupid patch need to be removed for EVERYONE. RNG gear from bags is horrible, it needs to be removed. Commendation cost of pvp gear needs to go way down.

 

A champion helmet costs 67 commendations. This means opening 23 battlemaster bags. You get 2 bm bags per day, with 2 more each week. You are looking at 10 days to farm one piece through commendations. But if you are lucky you can just open one champion bag and just get the piece.

 

If this pvp system was not developed by a bunch of idiots, they would have realized they needed to make centurion gear MUCH easier to obtain (the tier 1 should not be harder to get then the tier 2), make champion gear not grow on trees for anyone willing to put in the SLIGHTEST amount of effort in pvp, and make battlemaster gear a reward for anyone who put in the large time investment.

 

No one important will read this. But I don't care, I am not giving them any more money.

 

If I had put in a lot of effort into this game and then they suddenly nerf it to make all that time wasted I'd be very angry.

They have already given free valor to everyone.

Now they are going to nerf gear so its not as effective.

 

I've not no problem with games where gear isn't a major factor...changing it a couple of months after launch is unforgivable though.

 

Every change they make will alienate a group of people.

 

You should have stuck with your original plan bioware.