Exar Kun vs Darth Caedus

[BrandonSM]

Curious.

 

 

I'm thinking about buying my First Comic Ever. I want to learn more about The Old Sith. But Anyway, this fight thread came to my mind as I was reading LOTF.

[Rayla_Felana]

Darth Caedus, his feats are immense, he could take on the real Grand Master Luke Skywalker with a much better chance than almost anyone else, the things he accomplished puts him second on my list of the greatest Sith Lords.

[BrandonSM]

Bare with me, I'm using Wookieepedia.

 

Darth Caedus, his feats are immense, he could take on the real Grand Master Luke Skywalker with a much better chance than almost anyone else, the things he accomplished puts him second on my list of the greatest Sith Lords.

 

True. But, if your talking in Kun's prime. That would mean him with the amulet, and on Wookieepedia it says

After being consumed by the dark side, learning the powers of the Sith, and benefitting from the power of Freedon Nadd's amulet, Kun's power in the Force became extraordinary. He had a strong Force sense, the ability of Force Flight, and was capable of emitting Force Blasts from his hands that could crumble stone walls and kill Sithspawn with a single hit. Jedi Oss Wilum described him as "immensely strong with the Force." His studies of ancient Sith scrolls, and the designs of Naga Sadow on Yavin 4, also gave Kun a more than working mastery of Sith Alchemy. Kun revealed his new powers to the Jedi Order, but found himself ostracized for his abilities.[15][16][17] Near the end of the Sith War, Kun's prowess in the dark side had reached esoteric levels, such as when he drained the life-force out of almost the entire Massassi race and when he abandoned his mortal body

 

 

Sounds pretty powerful.

 

 

He created as a spirit, Pure Dark Side creatures.

[Rayla_Felana]

Bare with me, I'm using Wookieepedia.

 

 

 

True. But, if your talking in Kun's prime. That would mean him with the amulet, and on Wookieepedia it says

 

 

 

Sounds pretty powerful.

 

 

He created as a spirit, Pure Dark Side creatures.

 

That's why Kun is fourth on my list.

 

But in all seriousness, Kun was one of the most powerful ever, but Caedus was simply a prodigy of the force.

 

He could use Shatterpoint, Lightning and Choke instinctively, Aing-Tii Fighting-sight, the memory-rub technique, He could also project near perfect illusions of others in the mind of the viewer, He even briefly transformed into the most powerful manifestation of the force ever recorded when he achieved oneness, he could even probe the future, a far more advanced version of Precognition, He could actively bend the will of other powerful force users, all but his uncle, Vergere considered him the Jedi dream and the Jedi even believed Luke to be the only jedi who could compare to and defeat Jacen, this was before his turn to the Dark Side.

[Nautius]

Darth Caedus, his feats are immense, he could take on the real Grand Master Luke Skywalker with a much better chance than almost anyone else, the things he accomplished puts him second on my list of the greatest Sith Lords.

 

I was not impressed with Caedus at all. Maybe it was the writing that irked me, but there was nothing that made me feel like he was a hardcore Sith.

[Rayla_Felana]

I was not impressed with Caedus at all. Maybe it was the writing that irked me, but there was nothing that made me feel like he was a hardcore Sith.

 

Read the above post.

[Rayla_Felana]

In all honestly, what impressed me most about Darth Caedus was his immense willpower.

 

He was the only Sith I've ever seen whom hasn't forgotten the reason he fell to the dark side in the first place, because he remembered his family and he never forgot that the whole point was to make the galaxy a safe place for his daughter.

 

Which is exactly what he did, he WON, it wasn't about power or domination, it was the safety of his daughter, and he died in that pursuit, instead of defending himself against Jaina's killing blow, he warned his daughter and her mother of the poison that would have killed them.

 

And he brought peace to the galaxy, he ended the war and forged a long peace, with his own death, he was victorious and maybe he realised that, but nevertheless, he accomplished what he set out to do, and didn't make his grandfather's mistake.

 

But that's kind of offtopic, sorry. xD

[BrandonSM]

That's why Kun is fourth on my list.

 

But in all seriousness, Kun was one of the most powerful ever, but Caedus was simply a prodigy of the force.

 

He could use Shatterpoint, Lightning and Choke instinctively, Aing-Tii Fighting-sight, the memory-rub technique, He could also project near perfect illusions of others in the mind of the viewer, He even briefly transformed into the most powerful manifestation of the force ever recorded when he achieved oneness, he could even probe the future, a far more advanced version of Precognition, He could actively bend the will of other powerful force users, all but his uncle, Vergere considered him the Jedi dream and the Jedi even believed Luke to be the only jedi who could compare to and defeat Jacen, this was before his turn to the Dark Side.

 

Thats hardcore... lol

 

I forgot that he knew shatterpoint.

 

I have one question(It doesn't really matter but, I still wonder)

Can you achieve oneness if your Dark Sided?

[Rayla_Felana]

Thats hardcore... lol

 

I forgot that he knew shatterpoint.

 

I have one question(It doesn't really matter but, I still wonder)

Can you achieve oneness if your Dark Sided?

 

Yeh, he's fairly epic, although I like him more for what I just stated above your post.

 

Also, I don't have a clue, I don't think it's ever been stated what the requirements were for oneness, sorry friend, I don't know.

Edited February 1, 2012 by Rayla_Felana

[DarthFanatic]

Caedus, because he, like mentioned before, was a prodigy in the force and his knowledge of the force rivaled Luke's at the time, which is no small feat considering Luke is an EU god. He brutally injured Luke in a duel. Caedus beat Jaina, the Sword of the Jedi, in their first duel even with Luke lending her his strength and Caedus losing his arm during the fight. In their final duel, Caedus, weak and distracted with his daughter's fate, potentially could have killed Jaina as she killed him: "Knowing he would die, Caedus had the option of attacking his twin, as her strike left her open to retaliation, and taking his killer with him. He declined to do so, using his last moments to contact Djo in the Force and warn her that she and Allana were in danger."

[psychogobstopper]

SPOILERS FOR FATE OF THE JEDI BELOW

 

And he brought peace to the galaxy, he ended the war and forged a long peace [...]

"A long peace," indeed... that ended a mere two years later, when the Lost Tribe of the Sith emerged into the galaxy, the ancient Dark Side entity Abeloth was freed from her prison, and Chief of State Natasi Daala forced the Jedi Order into seizing control (however temporary) of the Galactic Alliance government. Yep, Jacen did a bang-up job at the whole "long peace" thing by becoming Darth Caedus.

[Rayla_Felana]

SPOILERS FOR FATE OF THE JEDI BELOW

 

 

"A long peace," indeed... that ended a mere two years later, when the Lost Tribe of the Sith emerged into the galaxy, the ancient Dark Side entity Abeloth was freed from her prison, and Chief of State Natasi Daala forced the Jedi Order into seizing control (however temporary) of the Galactic Alliance government. Yep, Jacen did a bang-up job at the whole "long peace" thing by becoming Darth Caedus.

 

/Facepalm.

 

The battle with Abeloth was nothing like a galaxy spanning war.

[psychogobstopper]

"Was"? Apocalypse won't be released until next month. It's a little early to say with such decisiveness what effects Abeloth's presence on the galactic stage will have, especially considering the role she currently occupies within the GA government. Her mere existence is more of a galactic threat than the Second Galactic Civil War was, and she could still manipulate the GA into a galaxy-spanning war.

 

My underlying point, however, was that one cannot say a "long peace" existed due to Jacen's decisions when there's absolutely no evidence to support such an assertion. Everything I pointed out could easily lead to galaxy-wide instability, even after the conclusion of FOTJ.

 

For example, take the Lost Tribe. While I freely admit I have nothing concrete to base this on, I doubt the Tribe will have been fully neutralized (whether that means everyone is dead, or they've lost their fleet, or something else doesn't matter) after Apocalypse. The existence of any organized Sith is always going to be a galactic threat.

Edited February 1, 2012 by psychogobstopper

[Rayla_Felana]

"Was"? Apocalypse won't be released until next month. It's a little early to say with such decisiveness what effects Abeloth's presence on the galactic stage will have, especially considering the role she currently occupies within the GA government. Her mere existence is more of a galactic threat than the Second Galactic Civil War was, and she could still manipulate the GA into a galaxy-spanning war.

 

My underlying point, however, was that one cannot say a "long peace" existed due to Jacen's decisions when there's absolutely no evidence to support such an assertion. Everything I pointed out could easily lead to galaxy-wide instability, even after the conclusion of FOTJ.

 

For example, take the Lost Tribe. While I freely admit I have nothing concrete to base this on, I doubt the Tribe will have been fully neutralized (whether that means everyone is dead, or they've lost their fleet, or something else doesn't matter) after Apocalypse. The existence of any organized Sith is always going to be a galactic threat.

 

As the matter stands, we have no evidence that Abeloth will cause a galaxy wide conflict, we have no idea of her motivations or what she has planned, nothing at all, another galactic war may be completely contradictory to her efforts.

 

As far as the lost tribe goes, considering they laid dormant and inactive in the greater galactic picture for such a long time, I do not see why they would decide to appear now and make a major war, even with the appearance of Abeloth, despite their current actions, this does not mean all out war waged by the Lost Tribe, if anything makes a full war, it would be Abeloth, but I've described that situation enough.

 

Nevertheless, the only major war we have seen since is the war against the One Sith Empire, that does not take place till way after Allana's lifetime.

 

We don't know enough about Abeloth and the Lost Tribe to actively suggest their future respective movements in the galaxy, so as I have stated already, as far as we know, right in this moment, Jacen brought about a peace that would last until at least 130 years ABY.

Edited February 1, 2012 by Rayla_Felana

[BrandonSM]

I hate Abeloth. The idea of that type of "Evil God" character just bothers me... but thats me.

[Rayla_Felana]

I hate Abeloth. The idea of that type of "Evil God" character just bothers me... but thats me.

 

Yeh, Sidious, Vitiate and Nihilus have been enough, a dark side entity supposedly 13(?) times more powerful than Grand Master Luke is 13 times to much overkill for me, I hate things like the celestials, etc...rather contradictory to the whole point of Star Wars isn't it?

[maxetius]

Jacen solo was amazingly powerful and gifted. Darth Caedus followed this, though he seemed to be lacking given that he was wtfowned by his sister who, though powerful, was never painted to be anywhere near his level.

[Rhyltran]

Jacen solo was amazingly powerful and gifted. Darth Caedus followed this, though he seemed to be lacking given that he was wtfowned by his sister who, though powerful, was never painted to be anywhere near his level.

 

He wasn't. In all cases he was outnumbered, injured, and weakened in some way. She never battled him on even grounds one on one with him fully "fresh."

[BrandonSM]

Yeh, Sidious, Vitiate and Nihilus have been enough, a dark side entity supposedly 13(?) times more powerful than Grand Master Luke is 13 times to much overkill for me, I hate things like the celestials, etc...rather contradictory to the whole point of Star Wars isn't it?

 

Honestly, I don't beleive Abe is 13 times powerful than Luke. What has she done that could truly kill him?

 

 

Like you said, Luke and Sidious are enough. Their always and only should be2 "all powerful ones" in almost every universe. And it should stay like that imo.

[Rayla_Felana]

Honestly, I don't beleive Abe is 13 times powerful than Luke. What has she done that could truly kill him?

 

 

Like you said, Luke and Sidious are enough. Their always and only should be2 "all powerful ones" in almost every universe. And it should stay like that imo.

 

Well Luke doesn't tend to lie and he is very rarely wrong, so she probably is, I am afraid to say.

 

Honestly I think both of them are over-powered as it is, such massive power is only the writer shooting themselves in the foot, because whenever you make all powerful characters, no matter how you end them, it will never be enough to justify their power, Sidious' ending as horrid, Revan was made all powerful then basically got hit with a nerf bat if you will and Luke got so ridiculous they haven't even been able to properly end him.

Edited February 1, 2012 by Rayla_Felana

[Darguth]

I read the Young Jedi Knights when I was a kiddie but never followed-up into the expanded universe much. What books would be recommended to read about the later-life exploits of Jaina and Jacen (and in what order)?

 

Thanks!

[BrandonSM]

Well Luke doesn't tend to lie and he is very rarely wrong, so she probably is, I am afraid to say.

 

Honestly I think both of them are over-powered as it is, such massive power is only the writer shooting themselves in the foot, because whenever you make all powerful characters, no matter how you end them, it will never be enough to justify their power, Sidious' ending as horrid, Revan was made all powerful then basically got hit with a nerf bat if you will and Luke got so ridiculous they haven't even been able to properly end him.

 

Well IMO, its the writers following Lucas. And Leland Chee is enforcing what Lucas says.

 

I don't mind Luke or Sid being the most powerful, most universes has 2 Omega Gods.One being good, one being bad. But if you get multiple gods it breaks the balance...

[Rayla_Felana]

I read the Young Jedi Knights when I was a kiddie but never followed-up into the expanded universe much. What books would be recommended to read about the later-life exploits of Jaina and Jacen (and in what order)?

 

Thanks!

 

If I remember correctly, the Legacy of the Force series is all you need to read about them.

 

Although, I imagine Jaina has made more appearances beyond LotF, I'm not that well versed in post-RotJ lore.

[BrandonSM]

 

Although, I imagine Jaina has made more appearances beyond LotF, I'm not that well versed in post-RotJ lore.

 

Same. I've only read LOTF(Long time ago tho) and a little FOTJ.

 

I'd probably recommend Pre-ROTJ books but since you wanted Jaina and Jacen probably most of Post-ROTJ.

 

If you want to start from when they were born, they are born in the Thrawn Trilogy. If my memory serves correctly.

[Valsdad]

Ceadus my a wide margin, IMO. Honestly had Ceadus been given the time to perfect his craft that Sidious was given he quite possibly could have been unstoppable even by Luke.

 

Ceadus understood the real, underlying principles of being a true Sith. These clowns who are drunk with power flinging lighting here, there and everywhere screaming UNLIMITED POWAAAA missed the bus that brought them to true Sith knowledge. Sith aren't inherently evil, they are just passionate in the force and believe using their power is perfectly okay to gain what they want.

 

Ceadus was never power hungry. He was driven by what he felt he needed to do to protect his daughter. He was also the only other force user able to stand in with Luke for a determinable amount of time. He lost, but he stood his ground and was able to wound him.