What does the 1-49 bracket teach us about PVP gear?

[Jebi]

I do this all the time. Literally full Battlemaster players while I'm wearing the Champion accessories (ear piece, implants, one relic, and wrist). Bad players are always going to be bad players, regardless of what you stick them in. Try interrupting a Mercenary spamming Tracer Missle and see what their reaction is. A good player will use something else while a bad player will literally stand there staring at you. Sorry, gear may give a small advantage, but it will never compensate for idiocy.

 

Yeah, stupid players will be stupid... but that's not the point.

 

The point is, two equally skilled players battle off. One has a 20% gear advantage. Who win's? Oh yeah... amazing PVP right there.

 

GW2 will be great. Carebears and the PVP-lite generation can stay here, acting all high and mighty with the gear discrepancies and low skill ceiling... chasing the next carrot that will allow them to be 'good at pvp', whilst the rest of us enjoying challenging PVP focused around player skill.

Edited February 7, 2012 by Jebi

[HonktonkGigolo]

Yeah, stupid players will be stupid... but that's not the point.

 

The point is, two equally skilled players battle off. One has a 20% gear advantage. Who win's? Oh yeah... great PVP right there.

 

I'm all for exaggerations since I do it quite often myself, but 20% advantage? What, is the one person still wearing green leveling gear? This is the other part I don't understand: people who don't use their resources wisely. When I hit 50, I didn't dive right into PvP and go "Gear me up, Scotty!" I went to the local GTN to see what I could gather from there to fill in some gaps, did my dailies to mod my orange gear and crafted some gear through Artifice. It boosted me from the measly 11k health I had up to 14k health and increased the damage I did. If you're in a Warzone at 50 with your quest greens and have done nothing to help yourself, then I feel no sympathy towards your situation. Items are cheap because people haven't inflated the prices and credits are ridiculously easy to come across.

[Nrrrdking]

first thing I want to say is that regardless of how things work out I'll still play PvP at 50 (my main is at 40 now). Eventually, I'll be on par with others in the same tier gear wise and the game will be fun again.

 

That PvP gear grind won't be much fun though. I feel that it isn't necessary at all. A needless struggle so that a handful of people can gain a shallow power trip by picking on the new kid while they catch up.

 

If it were up to me, gear would be a non-factor in PvP. Either it would be totally removed or compensated for in such a way to make it irrelevant. It's the single factor in the game that can't be balanced 1-50 in a reasonable way.

 

I'm not against the idea of PvP gear as long as it's on par with raid gear but I think the expertise stat needs to be given a second look. It's too direct and too powerful.

 

Differentiation comes from builds and tactics where you are rewarded for being intelligent and resourceful. Expertise only rewards effort.

[Noctournys]

I think alot of people are missing the point on the whole Gear thing.

 

BW had a great idea but it just isn't working out.

 

That idea wasn't creating special PvP gear - that idea was creating "Expertise"

 

The theory here (and Devs sorry if I am wrong but this is my assumption...) is that for pvp specific gear you can get a certain stat that is usefull only in pvp that rewards people who put in the time to get the rewards.

 

but it doesn't work that way...

 

Except that isn't what expertise is for. Ill cover that later.

 

I PvP alot I have a 50 Trooper at Valor 54, I have a 45 Sorcerer at valor 45, 38 Jedi Knight at Valor level 36 and a 21 Sniper at Valor level 19.

 

I leveled into level 50 with Valor 48 or so on the Trooper he had ZERO expertise, You can get 15 - 18 expertise if you use PvP weapons off the PvP vendors, but I make my own weapons so had Zero Expertise.

 

Yet I was going against people iwth much less Valor level and much better gear...

 

To use BattleMaster gear you need valor level 60 but you can get Centurian gear really cheap and Champion gear can be fairly easy to get as well - provided you can win.

 

This is where BW couldn't estimate...

 

Cent and Champ gear is as easy to get for both Factions.

however with Server ratios of 3 Imp for every Rep you have improved your chances of getting a PvP win at 50.

 

So (these numbers are fake I am making them up to illustrate my point)...

 

Sith level 50 valor 20 Gets his Daily done in 4 missions

Rep level 50 valor 20 gets his daily done in 12 missions

 

Numbers are estimates assuming with 3 times less the number of people it takes you 3 times as long to get a single win (plenty of holes but stay with me it's just an estimate)

 

 

Except that is a stupidly flawed assumption. You're playing the same number of games. Only difference is Imps are playing imps more. Its not like we win more against other imperials.

 

PvP as both Rep and Imp on the same server if you doubt me. Rep - I almost never see Huttball, when I do I am battleing Imps. Imp I get one Voidstar for every 4 or 5 huttballs I see and then mostly imp vs Imp.

 

So by the time the Rep toon gets his first bag from Dailies, the Imp toon has his daily done AND tons of winning points.

 

I have said in other posts, it takes 800 Warzone commendations to buy a Champ bag - I usually get 800 Warzone points before I get my 3 daily wins. (thats ALOT of dying)

 

I'm sorry to hear that. It has nothing to do with being on one faction or the other.

 

In the beginning you get a slight out of balance

Now here we are a month and a half after the game goes live and you see imps Earning Valor much faster because of - more points if you win, more commendations if you win and this = more chances at better armor

 

This is a logical fallacy. You can get just as many commendations from a loss. Commendation gain is based mostly on medal gain.

 

Winning has to be worth something, but in this case it has created a huge "have's vs Havenot's" scenerio where the Rich get richer and the poor get more and more disenfranchised.

 

When they nerfed the number of points you get when you lose they created an environment where both sides hide to be equal to stay ahead.

 

Solutions?

Can make Expertise easier to get - will trivialize the benefit but this is really why people complain about the gear.

 

 

Then they have no idea how to do math, and they dont understand how stats interplay in this game, at all.

 

As a Trooper grav Round is my baby

with 273 Expertise I am now hitting for around 1200 - 1400 points

When I had 48 Expertise using the same weapon I was hitting for 700 - 900 points per hit.

Huge increase for 220 or so Expertise.

 

Also a flat out impossibility. 220 expertise did not get you 500+ points of damage. It got you about 3%.

 

I know when I face a Battlemaster - My hits drop from 1200 - 1400 down to 700 to 900 on the rare occassion I have seen my damage output drop all the way down to 500 points.

but I also see it hitting for 2000+ regularly on new level 50's with low expertise.

 

Again, flat out impossible. What you're seeing is A) the variable damage in your abilities and B ) people being guarded, you being taunted, shields, partial absorbs. Even if you faced a Battlemaster in FULL BM GEAR, he has 13.5% DR or so. That would take your 1200-1400 damage shots down to... 1050-1280.

 

that is a HUGE amount of damage mitigation wrapped into mostly a single Stat.

 

espeically when you lie!

 

I expect when I get my Expertise over 500 I will hit for 1500 - 2000 per hit dropping down to 1200 to 1500 against the other battlemasters out there

 

I expect you failed 4th grade math.

 

THIS is why people are complaining about gear

500 - 2000 is the range I hit right now on different people... lessen this gap to 1000 - 1500 and you will see less people complaining. You will start hitting battlemasters for more damage and you will start hitting newbies for less.

 

no need to FIX the gear - fix the way Expertise calculates to lessen the gap...

 

in PvE people want things like an extra 25 Endurance so they have 250 extra hit points because that is one extra hit against this mob or whatever.

 

but PvP gear is strictly about the expertise, and since you can't "ramp up" expertise prior to 50 you are as one poster put it - the Grey mob in the room...

 

People need to learn to do math.

 

People also need to learn that you can do daliy quests for a few hours and be in gear that will net you 15-17k HP depending on class and better stats across the board than Champion gear.

 

People need to stop expecting to cruise into a Warzone in the gear they leveled in with their 12k HP and somehow be competitive.

 

You wouldnt expect to do a Hard Mode Flashpoint in greens, would you? You wouldnt expect anyone to take you on an Operation in greens, would you?

 

Then why the hell do you expect to do well in greens anywhere else?

 

Edit: i said id cover why people have the wrong idea about expertise. Im currently in queue for my 3 games a day, so itll get added here shortly.

Edited February 7, 2012 by Noctournys

[Jebi]

I'm all for exaggerations since I do it quite often myself, but 20% advantage? What, is the one person still wearing green leveling gear? This is the other part I don't understand: people who don't use their resources wisely. When I hit 50, I didn't dive right into PvP and go "Gear me up, Scotty!" I went to the local GTN to see what I could gather from there to fill in some gaps, did my dailies to mod my orange gear and crafted some gear through Artifice. It boosted me from the measly 11k health I had up to 14k health and increased the damage I did. If you're in a Warzone at 50 with your quest greens and have done nothing to help yourself, then I feel no sympathy towards your situation. Items are cheap because people haven't inflated the prices and credits are ridiculously easy to come across.

 

20%? BM gear ~12% attck, ~12% def, pvp relics, then biochem heals & buffs = more than 20%.

 

And yeah, im two sets away from a full BM set. But beating undergeared players who have yet to complete their gear grind and/or crafting grind is hardly challenging or enjoyable.. at least for me.

 

I'm glad you enjoy gear grinds and gear discrepancies, but it's not my cup of tea. GW2... nom nom nom.

Edited February 7, 2012 by Jebi

[Zombifikation]

Hmm, didn't read past the first page, because I'd imagine the back and forth continued on.

 

So, all the hardcore no lifes feel the need to bring up progression, and how mmos are all about it. What progression really boils down to is time. Anyone can get the gear, but since some people have no real life responsibilities, they get the gear 10x faster and are that much "better". Grinding doesn't make you good and pretending it does is stupid. No, this isn't an fps, but why can't it be more like that? Why does everything need to take hundreds of hours? Because the first mmos set the pace and the others followed.

 

If gear were not a factor then skill would matter. Someone said on the first page that you shouldn't be equal as a fresh 50 because you could kill him to easy( that's pretty much what I got from it). Do you realize how dumb that sounds? "I have no life, so you shouldn't be able to kill me because I have more time to play"....hahahahahaha.

 

Get rid of gear based PvP, have a grind for cosmetic looks only and let's see who's better now that everything is equal. Let's even add a detailed stat/ranking system so you have something else to grind for. Quit being *****es and hiding behind your gear like it makes you good (which with a rng gear system is not possible).

Edited February 7, 2012 by Zombifikation

[Jebi]

Get rid of gear based PvP, have a grind for cosmetic looks only and let's see who's better now that everything is equal. Let's even add a detailed stat/ranking system so you have something else to grind for. Quit being *****es and hiding behind your gear like it makes you good (which with a rng gear system is not possible).

 

QFT.

 

The truth hurts it seems.

Edited February 7, 2012 by Jebi

[Soulcheg]

 

So, all the hardcore no lifes feel the need to bring up progression, and how mmos are all about it. What progression really boils down to is time. Anyone can get the gear, but since some people have no real life responsibilities, they get the gear 10x faster and are that much "better". .

 

I'm playing 3-4 hours per day, after work, and i am 63 valor rank, 4 BM pieces. So. Is this me have no life, of is this you too lazy?

[Mhorlok]

Except that is a stupidly flawed assumption. You're playing the same number of games. Only difference is Imps are playing imps more. Its not like we win more against other imperials.

 

you are assuming the same number of matches no queue - I am waiting 15 to 30 minutes to get in as rep on occassion over an hour wait time while my Imp toon enters the pvp queue and goes directly to a match every time.

[Conry]

Well if PVP gear is easy to obtain...Then everyone gets pvp gear...when ranked come out....and it just a leader-board doesnt that make everyone equal in gear?...(if everyone farmed Battle-masters before starting rank PVP). I think the gear in Swtor is just there to show the time you putt into the game....when ranked in released it will be more based on "skill"

 

In wow when you got past 2k your obtained a "stronger Weapon" give you the advantage over newer 2k teams. but around 2.1k 2.3k EVERYONE has the same set. BUT then it becomes Who comp counters which.. RMP FTW yo

[Tyranoc]

Yeah it's a shame that my posts got deleted, youre also forgetting yours also got deleted.

Plus if it makes you look bigger to point that out, then at least it makes you happy yeah?

 

Also now you are saying you don't care about change? It sure doesn't seem like that from all your posts. Sounds like you're being a hypocrite. I wonder what exactly you are defending then? Or perhaps you enjoy to pick on forum peeps, just

like the way you do to fresh 50's and previous low lvl peeps in warzones.

 

You havnt done the hard yard, so what you say is irrelevant to me.

 

If it makes you feel any better I just completed my daily WZ's using Rakata gear apart from my gloves which were Columni... 3 wins - 0 losses. Top 3 in damage all times...

I can live without my expertise. I'll jut switch to my PvE raid gear which actually gives me more damage output and more hitpoints.

Or i can swtich to my crappy looking orange kit that i have fully kitted out with purple I purchased from the Illum daily comms.

I use my champ gear because against BM and other cham it gives me the best offense and defence.

 

The point I am making is that you people cry now because people have things that you dont and pwn you and your kinds to the point of crying like you are now. If you got rid of BM everyone would switch to Rakata raid gear and then you would cry because you dont have that and everyone who was 50 before you and has it got it handed to them...

They get rid of that you'd find some other excuse for being beaten senseless and the ciycle of QQ'ing continues.

Its not about defending expertise or BM. Its about laughing at noob who thik they should automatically get the ebst of everything without having to do anything. You all say people like myself had it easy gettign our gear, but you want it given to you in an even easier manner.

 

Its sad, but rather amusing. Hence me hanging aroudn to point out how childish it all sounds and you all are.

[Mhorlok]

This is a logical fallacy. You can get just as many commendations from a loss. Commendation gain is based mostly on medal gain.

 

umm what game do you play again? Cause it's not this one...

 

 

Also a flat out impossibility. 220 expertise did not get you 500+ points of damage. It got you about 3%.

 

Flat out Fact

 

Go buy some PvE gear - wear it and then swap in 220 Expertise and watch your damage go up

 

My Aim went from 1200 to 1250 going from PvE to Camp PvP gear

Crit Chance and Multiplier about the same, Power etc a little worse

 

my Ranged damage went from 580/830 to 601/873

 

All slight improves the only major difference almost no Expertise (48 from gun) to 273.

So how is my logic on this flawed?

 

 

Again, flat out impossible. What you're seeing is A) the variable damage in your abilities and B ) people being guarded, you being taunted, shields, partial absorbs. Even if you faced a Battlemaster in FULL BM GEAR, he has 13.5% DR or so. That would take your 1200-1400 damage shots down to... 1050-1280.

 

You would think... but that just isn't the case...

you know the easiest way to tell if you are facing a BM or not? Look at their HP you already have them targeted just hover over. you see 12k to 14k usually not in BM gear, you see 17k + probably a BM - the more hitpoints they have the less damage I do - test it for yourself - take off 200 Expertise hit a friend and then put it back on and hit the same friend tell me what you see

 

People need to learn to do math.

 

People also need to learn that you can do daliy quests for a few hours and be in gear that will net you 15-17k HP depending on class and better stats across the board than Champion gear.

 

Once again careful your intelligence is showing here...

 

What part of I have been doing Warzones for the past 7 hours and I have 1 win to account for it don't you seem to understand?

Edited February 7, 2012 by Mhorlok

[Noctournys]

Expertise and You:

 

The Great Big Lie.

 

There is a commonly held belief that Expertise was introduced to keep PvEers who raid out of PvP.

 

This belief, if you are capable of addition and substraction, or operating an excell spreadsheet, is pretty provably false.

 

It's use in game is exactly the opposite. It keeps PvP gear out of Operations.

 

Im only going to waste time examining the exact stats of a single piece of gear, but this can be extrapolated to the entire set. Ill then go over what that means at the end for those trying to follow along at home.

 

Two pieces of gear:

 

Battlemaster's Field Tech's Jacket:

http://knotor.com/items/612689

 

Summary: 92 Endurance, 94 cunning, 51 Accuracy, 48 crit, 50 expertise

 

Rakata Field Tech's Jacket:

http://knotor.com/items/588288

 

Summary: 105 Endurance (+13), 122 cunning (+28), 51 accuracy, 48 crit.

 

The difference in the two items come solely from the locked "Armoring" slot.

 

The BM Armoring is: 33 Cunning, 31 Endurance, 50 Expertise

The Rakata Armoring is: 61 Cunning, 44 Endurance

 

Now multiply that over an entire set of gear (as this identical armoring is in every armor item - including belts and bracers - it just "locked" so you cant see it, but you can clearly see it in datamined info)

 

So.. those differences x 8 (the weapon is the same way, it uses a special barrel/hilt that is the same damage rating but has exactly the same stat spreads) and you get:

 

a difference of 104 Endurance (1040 HP bonus to the PvE gear), and 224 Cunning!

 

That 224 cunning is: 45 bonus damage and 1.74% crit. JUST ON THOSE EIGHT PIECES.

 

The differences are even MORE pronounced on Implants, Earpiece, Relics (PvE relics have interesting on hit procs and stuff, too!), and offhands.

 

A quick a dirty estimate (as i already did this math once today at the Champion/Columi Level and dont feel like doing it again), estimating a little low, is ANOTHER 120 cunning and 80 endurance gained in the PvE gear, leaving us with:

 

+1840 HP in PvE gear

+ 340 cunning in PvE gear, which is 70 bonus damage and 2.2% crit.

 

70 bonus damage on some skills is a variance of 300-400 damage. THAT YOU DONT HAVE IN PVP GEAR.

 

Here's the important part

 

These stats ARE NOT ON THE PvP GEAR.

 

Meaning, all other things being equal, YOU DO LESS DAMAGE IN PVP GEAR.

 

Following?

 

Here's the revelation:

All the expertise does is make up for the 20% HP you're missing, and it re-adds the damage you lost by putting the PvP gear on. THAT'S IT.

 

It directly eats the item budget.

 

Conclusion:

 

Expertise (effectively capped by its DR formula at about 13.5%) only effectively returns you to the level of DPS you would have had in Full PvE gear of the same item level.. but it ONLY DOES SO AGAINST PLAYERS.

 

Summary:

 

Expertise isn't there to keep PvE'ers out of PvP, as the math quite clearly shows that the extra stats they get put them on an even keel the moment they hit PvP. Expertise is there to make it so you cannot gear up for PvE by PvPing.

 

This isn't even getting into the part where PvP gear is HORRIBLY itemized. (You know how much surge is on my Sniper set ? You know, the BEST STAT IN THE GAME for me until the soft cap? NOT ONE SINGLE BIT. Not one rating point). It is deliberately itemized to LOWER YOUR DAMAGE EVEN FURTHER.

 

To get decent damage out of PvP gear you have to buy other-classes PvE pieces and replace the junk mods and enhancements with ones that actually help you.

 

Math.

 

It's hard.

[Noctournys]

you are assuming the same number of matches no queue - I am waiting 15 to 30 minutes to get in as rep on occassion over an hour wait time while my Imp toon enters the pvp queue and goes directly to a match every time.

 

Then you might wish to contact Bioware about that bug.

 

With 3x the imperial players waiting.. you should NEVER have a queue as pub.

 

That's a different issue and quite possibly a technical one.

[Zombifikation]

I'm playing 3-4 hours per day, after work, and i am 63 valor rank, 4 BM pieces. So. Is this me have no life, of is this you too lazy?

 

Hmm, do you have a wife? A gf? A social life, with real living and breathing friends? Adults have jobs, its what we do, we work, you're not special. I prefer to not spend all of my free time playing a game, and if I did I would want it to be by choice, not because I'm forced to do so to compete. Gaming shouldnt be a 2nd job. I'm a gamer at heart, its something I love to do, but I also like to spend time with the gf and spend time with my friends, and do other things that don't involve sitting in front of a computer, but I'm a competitive person and like to be good at what I do, but I don't have time for a 2nd job on top of my other obligations...especially if I'm not getting paid haha.

 

Now I know some of you will come back with "well that's your choice, so you shouldn't be able to beat me because I choose not to have a real life.". Wrong. I think people are afraid that someone who doesn't spend as much time as them would hand them their *** if the playing field were equal, and then their little digital world would come crashing down and they would actually have to look in the mirror and realize that they will never get those hundreds of hours back.

 

PvP should he about skill and fun, not who can grind harder so they can roll lowbies better. As I said, who cares what the mmo trend has been, where is it set in stone that everything has to be a massive grind no matter what? I understand there needs to be time taken to learn your class, fine, but when you do that, then the competition should start, not another grind.

[Mhorlok]

Then you might wish to contact Bioware about that bug.

 

With 3x the imperial players waiting.. you should NEVER have a queue as pub.

 

Actually most of our matches start where the Republic only has 5 to 6 players and we get the 120 second warning then we slowly build to 7 maybe 8 by the time the match is half over...

 

once again you haven't a clue...

[Delekii]

Expertise and You:

 

The Great Big Lie.

 

Not going to quote the entire novel, but you need to do some research on effective health vs. actual health, and time to live. A 20% damage spread from expertise is FAR, FAR more desirable than 20% more health.

 

It increases your longevity by significnatly more than the extra hp does without even considering heals incoming or cooldown use, and much moreso the more healing you receive. It also increases the value of every heal you receive because each hp you have is more valuable than the hp on someone with less mitigation.

 

Also, if you think that ~340 cunning is even close to a 20% dps increase, you are severely mistaken.

 

Full PvP gear will destroy full rakata gear every time, and even moreso when healing is considered.

Edited February 7, 2012 by Delekii

[Noctournys]

.

So how is my logic on this flawed?

 

Because 300 expertise is about 5%. not the 25% you reported. Can you do math?

 

 

 

You would think... but that just isn't the case...

you know the easiest way to tell if you are facing a BM or not? Look at their HP you already have them targeted just hover over. you see 12k to 14k usually not in BM gear, you see 17k + probably a BM - the more hitpoints they have the less damage I do - test it for yourself - take off 200 Expertise hit a friend and then put it back on and hit the same friend tell me what you see

 

So what you're saying is that the expertise stat in-game LIES? That instead of buffing my damage by the 10.5% i get in my full champion gear, its actually doing MORE? See that latin in my signature? That's Occam's Razor.

 

Go read about it.

 

"12-14k not in BM gear, blah blah blah"

 

As their HP goes up.. you realize their ARMOR IS GOING UP TOO? They are going from lower-rating armor to higher-rating armor, which provides more armor points, EVEN IN PVE GEAR.

 

I have 16k in my PvE gear. I'd have even more if i had columi.

(and only 15.3k in my PvP gear - Full champion!)

 

Once again careful your intelligence is showing here...

 

What part of I have been doing Warzones for the past 7 hours and I have 1 win to account for it don't you seem to understand?

 

I understand it, but trying to blame that on the faction you're playing is simply not logical. You're losing because your team is losing.

Edited February 7, 2012 by Noctournys

[Noctournys]

umm what game do you play again? Cause it's not this one...

 

Medal gain controls commendation gain. Simple, provable fact.

 

When you get a medal in the warzone, it puts a b uff on you. Mouse over that buff sometime. read what it says:

 

"Valor increased by 50 and commendations by 5 for every medal earned".

 

Just had a losing Alderaan.

 

Had the following medals:

2.5k single hit

solo kill

killing blow

2.5k heal

5k heal

75k damage done

300k damage done

1k defender

3k defender

 

so, in that LOSING Alderaan, i got: 70 commendations. (thanks to the extra 45 i got from medals)

 

I just WON a Huttball, too, (two games later). The other team was so awful, we ended the game with 9 minutes still on the clock.

 

I had only 5 medals:

solo kill

75k damage

killing blow

2.5 k heal

5k heal

 

I got (for this WIN) - 50 commendations.

 

you get 25 for playing. Anything else is based entirely on your medal gain. It's why tanks roll through the commendations. Ive seen tanks with 13 medals.

[Pattotwo]

Remove the PVP gear and you will be complaining about getting rolled by everyone who raids in a few months. Swtor has only been out for 5'ish weeks. A couple of content patches down the road and you would fall over dead when a raider even looks at you.

 

Getting valor 60 in this game is the easiest I have ever seen in a game that uses such a system. The RNG bag system is horrible, I would bet they will change it later. They probably didn't anticipate that there would be so many players at V60 already and PVP gear as it is threatens to trivialize any meaningful PVE progression.

 

Sounds like someone exploited Ilum.... But no I think she's trying to say remove Expertise

[justregularjoe]

I'd just like to say that since I rolled a new toon and have been playing WZ i have been having a blast.

 

Playing on my 50 sorc is just blah. You either run into fully geared premades on vent/mumble, or your team is filled with fresh 50s - sometimes both !

 

In 10-49 gear doesn't really matter that much , it is so nice

[Delekii]

Medal gain controls commendation gain. Simple, provable fact.

 

When you get a medal in the warzone, it puts a b uff on you. Mouse over that buff sometime. read what it says:

 

"Valor increased by 50 and commendations by 5 for every medal earned".

 

Just had a losing Alderaan.

 

Had the following medals:

2.5k single hit

solo kill

killing blow

2.5k heal

5k heal

75k damage done

300k damage done

1k defender

3k defender

 

so, in that LOSING Alderaan, i got: 70 commendations. (thanks to the extra 45 i got from medals)

 

I just WON a Huttball, too, (two games later). The other team was so awful, we ended the game with 9 minutes still on the clock.

 

I had only 5 medals:

solo kill

75k damage

killing blow

2.5 k heal

5k heal

 

I got (for this WIN) - 50 commendations.

 

you get 25 for playing. Anything else is based entirely on your medal gain. It's why tanks roll through the commendations. Ive seen tanks with 13 medals.

 

You are comparing apples and oranges. If you had got as many medals in your winning huttball, you would have gained more commendations than in your losing Alderaan. For someone who seems to want to argue with math and logic, you don't do a good job of it.

 

There is a baseline value for a win or a loss. A win gives more than a loss. Anything else is available irrespective of winning or losing. That doesn't change the fact that a win gives more than a loss.

 

Your numbers are off, because winning does give more commendations than losing.

Edited February 7, 2012 by Delekii

[Noctournys]

Not going to quote the entire novel, but you need to do some research on effective health vs. actual health, and time to live. A 20% damage spread from expertise is FAR, FAR more desirable than 20% more health.

 

It increases your longevity by significnatly more than the extra hp does without even considering heals incoming or cooldown use, and much moreso the more healing you receive. It also increases the value of every heal you receive because each hp you have is more valuable than the hp on someone with less mitigation.

 

Also, if you think that ~340 cunning is even close to a 20% dps increase, you are severely mistaken.

 

Full PvP gear will destroy full rakata gear every time, and even moreso when healing is considered.

 

what fictional 20% are you spouting about?

 

Its 13.5% in head-to-toe battlemaster.

 

Expertise has diminishing returns.

 

And no, i dont think that 340 cunning is a 20% dps increase. But the better stats on the off-pieces of the gear will certainly be more than a 10% increase.

 

Just for one skill (Ambush)

 

Going from my PvP gear (full champ):

1379 Cunning/358.6 bonus damage - Ambush is 2607-2807

 

1450 cunning/408.1 bonus damage - Ambush is 2770-2970

 

Thats a 163 damage loss on that one single skills, and my PvE gear is lower level than my PvP gear - im in mostly orange gear with daily quest mods and a few stripped enhancements from spare PvP pieces or Columi gear (from tokens for other classes from HMs). If i was in full Columi-level gear, it'd be more like 300 damage difference (acutally the spreadhseet says 330 damage, but well round down).

 

That's more like a 14% difference in dps. And that isn't even taking into account the extra 5% crit and 30% surge in my PvE gear.

 

Rakata will take.. slightly more damage, but you EASILY lose the 13.5% damage you can from full battlemaster in lost stats. All it is doing is bringing you back up to where you would have been.

Edited February 7, 2012 by Noctournys

[Pattotwo]

Love the part about Expertise being to keep PVE players out of PVP. I think you will find most of the good raiders will PVP and PVE and do both well there are a lot of raiders out there that are Battlemasters. Not that having BM gear or the title makes you skilled in anyway, just you have more time on your hands to grind at a computer desk all day

[Noctournys]

You are comparing apples and oranges. If you had got as many medals in your winning huttball, you would have gained more commendations than in your losing Alderaan. For someone who seems to want to argue with math and logic, you don't do a good job of it.

 

There is a baseline value for a win or a loss. A win gives more than a loss. Anything else is available irrespective of winning or losing. That doesn't change the fact that a win gives more than a loss.

 

Your numbers are off, because winning does give more commendations than losing.

 

Funny.. three more games, 2 wins, 1 loss. Number of commendations always equals up to (medals x5) +25.