jamenta Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Meh, pvp at 50 is a complete disaster. I would rather re-roll and have tons of fun in the 10-49 Bracket, you know where skill actually matter. ^^ This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctournys Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 I guess I will add my 2c to this. Taking out progression is a very bad idea for an MMO, pve or pvp. BW just needs to change a couple of things to fix the current system and not completely overhaul the existing system. Let's face it, its not going to happen anyways. 1.) BW removed the blue expertise pvp set from the game. Adding this back in would give 200+ expertise to ppl just hitting 50. . You can still do this, and actually have Expertise (a l ittle mroe than the 240 or so it gave you for the blues) by buying the orange level 40ish PvP weapons. The tanking gun (pistol for Empire, rifle for Pubs) has an enhancement in it that has 23 expertise. You can strip them out and put htem in other gear. I did this for a bit before i realized that the expertise i was gaining wasn't worth the loss of 6% crit and and 42% surge (for my class). Still, i had 5.7% expertise with oranges, and those had better other stats then the old blues, because i had a level 51 armoring (from daily comms) and a level 51 mod. its seriously about that hard. six days of dalies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyrdstar Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 You can certainly tell that a lot of people never played anything other then progressive gear based pvp. It frightens them to lose the advantage that having no life affords them in this type of game. It also amazes me how many people use the terms "work and grueling" in reference to a game. it seems as if they find some self validation in this. Maybe try this. Take your lips off the great purple gear *** and step away from the no life crutch. Free your mind and beat your opponent on a level playing field, it's far more satisfying. After you've achieved this get your doughy arse out of your rotting computer chair,take your greasy fingers off your pizza cheese encrusted key board grab a shower and go out and get a life. Later after you've done some "grueling work" in the real world come back and beat your opponent again on a level playing field. Trust me you'll feel better about things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tourne Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 I'm not rerolling to play in a 1-49 bracket...I can understand how it may be of an appeal in (other games) there is no such need to do so here except for laziness or ADHD. You can easily compete on the same level as "geared" opponents with only the slightest of time consumption...it's beyond lenient atm. The only reason that I would play in a 1-49 is if I had no other choice...being lvl 1-49. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orici Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 The point of the thread seems to be that the 10-49 bracket did improve things for everybody who isn't 50 yet. That's a good thing but there's still some room for improvements on the level 50 side. Hmm, in that case the next logical step would be to split the 50's into 2 brackets. Is there a max for expertise? If so, the bottom half can be the normal 50 bracket, and the top half can be the elite 50's bracket. That would kinda fix 1 problem, but then add to the "I have to wait forever for 1 match" problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lugh Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Hmm, in that case the next logical step would be to split the 50's into 2 brackets. Is there a max for expertise? If so, the bottom half can be the normal 50 bracket, and the top half can be the elite 50's bracket. That would kinda fix 1 problem, but then add to the "I have to wait forever for 1 match" problem. That just means all the people that think expertise is OP'd or whatever will only equip 1/2 pvp gear or less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctournys Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 You can certainly tell that a lot of people never played anything other then progressive gear based pvp. It frightens them to lose the advantage that having no life affords them in this type of game. It also amazes me how many people use the terms "work and grueling" in reference to a game. it seems as if they find some self validation in this. Maybe try this. Take your lips off the great purple gear *** and step away from the no life crutch. Free your mind and beat your opponent on a level playing field, it's far more satisfying. After you've achieved this get your doughy arse out of your rotting computer chair,take your greasy fingers off your pizza cheese encrusted key board grab a shower and go out and get a life. Later after you've done some "grueling work" in the real world come back and beat your opponent again on a level playing field. Trust me you'll feel better about things. Yeah... 90 minutes doing six matches a day is simply NO EFFING LIFE. or 30 minutes doing a few dalies. The Clue bus will be back around in a few days. Make sure to get a ticket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orici Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 That just means all the people that think expertise is OP'd or whatever will only equip 1/2 pvp gear or less. equipping half PvP gear would give them half the expertise... and isnt expertise the main thing on PvP gear people are complaining about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noollig Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 I would absolutely love a bracket that would normalize gear for each class. So there would be set stats and nobody would have an innate advantage due to higher level gear. Bag-drop-luck, exploiting, and lack of a full time job doesn't make one player better than another. I would very much prefer a bracket that pits a player/team's skill against another's skill. Gear can matter in open world pvp, sure. But open world PvP isn't regulated, and a fair fight isn't expected. I'd rather fight a level 40+ as a level 10-19 character than fight a Battlemaster geared player as a fresh 50. Give an option for people to fight in a bracket that gives all players the same stats depending on class, and lets see how many still queue in the one that requires a gear grind to compete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torleen Posted February 1, 2012 Author Share Posted February 1, 2012 Hmm.. actually you are wrong and i will tell you why people are doing that. Here it goes.. a little avoided secret. You can actually get a bit of expertise pre 50 by stripping the pvp weapons that have it. Max of 25 per weapon so if you put it on orange gear.. you run around in the pre 50 brackets with a good chunk of expertise. Oh as an fyi the mod is level 45 and this is why some people will quit zones so they dont hit 50 I am already doing this. I have Expertise on every piece of gear. The most you can get is under 5%. Which is nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orici Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 I would absolutely love a bracket that would normalize gear for each class. So there would be set stats and nobody would have an innate advantage due to higher level gear. Bag-drop-luck, exploiting, and lack of a full time job doesn't make one player better than another. I would very much prefer a bracket that pits a player/team's skill against another's skill. Gear can matter in open world pvp, sure. But open world PvP isn't regulated, and a fair fight isn't expected. I'd rather fight a level 40+ as a level 10-19 character than fight a Battlemaster geared player as a fresh 50. Give an option for people to fight in a bracket that gives all players the same stats depending on class, and lets see how many still queue in the one that requires a gear grind to compete. Thats actually an excellent idea... make it an option! Of course, there would have to be some kind of incentive for people to play in the harder bracket, but the option should be there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felene Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 I like how you talk about expertise in the first sentance and then tell us you don't know what it does in the third sentance. Why even reply? Tell me what you know about Expertise in this graph. And its "sentence" not "sentance." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Philar Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Giving better gear to grinders in an MMO is exactly like giving more letters to older people when playing Scrabble. The older people did not do anything to earn the extra letters, they just were "there" longer. Now they have an advantage which they can use to curb stomp anyone who has been "there" less time. Your only hope in this situation is for new people to come along and have less letters than you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctournys Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 I am already doing this. I have Expertise on every piece of gear. The most you can get is under 5%. Which is nothing. The MOST you can get in FULL Battlemaster is about 12.5%... so n o, it's not nothing. And that's if you put on decidedly sub-par BM implants, earpiece, wrist and belt, which are best avoided because you lose so much of other stats to put them on. Most people roll in about 10-11%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felene Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 So having no life and being able to spend 10 hours a day in front of a computer in your mom's basement is now a skill? Assumption much? Someone had more time to play a game then you did must be living in his mother's house basement? Who are you to judge other people's lifestyle choice? And I can't play the game right now because I am in a ski resort in Colorado replying these degenerating post with my iPhone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abanoth Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) It means PvP gear is outdated and people are sick of grinding like in PvE. PvE you can run lower instances until you get enough to play harder instances. PvP you have no control over the level of player you compete against and thus inevitably get run through the meat grinder again and again until you say F-it and either go full PvE, buy somebody's account, or quit. Edited February 1, 2012 by Abanoth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatanic Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Tell me what you know about Expertise in this graph. And its "sentence" not "sentance." That graph is severly broken due to the diffrent ratio's on the lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamenta Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) Interesting OP that I agree with. They really need to get away from a gear based progression - and introduce more skill based progression. i.e. more advanced PvP'rs will be allowed to do more with their toon - not simply P-own another player by have 20% more DPS and ARMOR. It's silly to have competitive PvP - (or competitive anything) where one team can easily ROFL STOMP another - just because they have better gear. It isn't fun - it's stupid. I still think they need to break up the 1-49s into two brackets - but likely only after they allow cross server matches - which I think would improve gameplay - as you wouldn't end up playing against the same set of players every single gaming session. PvP gameplay should be skilled based - not gear based. Rewards should not give a player a huge advantage over other players. Rewards do not have to be gear based - people posting here seem to think that is the only way you can design PvP for an MMO. Wrong. Edited February 1, 2012 by jamenta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noctournys Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 "PvP should be skill based" Skill should and does matter, but there are so many other things that matter more, in an MMO, that you simply cannot ever change. Class composition of your team matters more than individual skill, or gear, unless you are in greens. Class balance throws skill right out the window. As a sniper, despite the nerf, most ops/smugglers are still kicking my face in before i can even hurt them, and if they dont manage to finish me off, they just get away and re-engage. There's no skill gap involved here; theres just nothing i can do about it. Im lying on the ground not playing my character. If you want a game where skill is the only factor, it cannot be one with different classes and team comps. It has to be something where everyone is identical... a shooter or an RTS is about it. MOBA games .. well, class comp is just as big there as it is here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternalFinality Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) equipping half PvP gear would give them half the expertise... and isnt expertise the main thing on PvP gear people are complaining about? Yes, and the other half of their gear would be RAID GEAR. And they'd continue to crush the people who are only outfitted in half PvP gear and half crap gear. And the gear gap continues to be a problem. The only solution for fair PvP is to remove it entirely. Edited February 1, 2012 by EternalFinality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CIRSyndic Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Put full loot in and let Darwin do the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternalFinality Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Oh also, has anyone ever played Gunbound? It was a fairly popular free game about...say....9 years ago, that was sort of like Worms. On your turn you should shoot at other players, and killing people/winning gave money which could buy gear which gave better stats. (Accuracy, power, hp, etc). Eventually they turned it into a microtransaction game where you could buy the gear with real money instead of farming it. But they also had one key option - when creating a match you could tick a flag to ignore stats from gear. This made all gear cosmetic and added no stats. Overwhelmingly, people played with this option on. Can you figure out why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PlagaNerezza Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Tempest. Most of my guild is SWG vets. What server you on? Villis Andal of Tempest. I miss those days. Sorry to interrupt PvP expertise is a joke thread. Send me a PM if your guild is looking to add. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orici Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 I have a question since everyone's saying winning is totally gear based... If a bad player has lots of expertise runs into a really good player with none, will the bad player win? PvP'ing is more than mashing buttons. It's knowing when to LoS, when to interupt, dancing in and out of range... positioning to knock your opponent into the acid/fire then stunning them or off a ledge... you get the point Also, Im not saying i have a definite opinion either way. I play WZ's because i like objective games and the 3 here are fun! Huttball = Capture the Flag Voidstar = Demolition Alderan = Domination ps.. i play lots of CoD too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darwinology Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 I have never seen someone whine so much about something that is never going to get changed, no matter how much you sit here all days whining about how a game should be about how your button pushing "skills" should be the deciding factor in a MMO is just not going to be the case. This game has gear and always will, and It will be a factor, no matter what you think. They are not going to change it simply because a extremely small group of players want it one specific way, and on top of that you only want it changed in one aspect of the game, PVP. It's just not going to happen like that. End of story. Maybe you don't have to time to grind it out or whatever, and thats fine but all MMOs are time consuming no matter how you look at it. If you dont like it then you probably invest your freetime elsewhere and stop complaning. In all the time you sat here complaning about how you think the game "should be" in your world, you could of been grinding out your gear, or you could of just quit and done us all a favor. Maybe you should go try and start your own MMO with your ideas and see how successful it turns out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts