Bioware, Fix PVP or your multi-million dollar project is going to tank

[Eljayz]

I'm getting to the point of no return with this game. It's frustrating to even log on anymore when the population imbalance is this severe. Ok we understand that the population imbalance is an issue with all games, but for it to severely affect game play THIS MUCH is an outrage.

 

This entire broken system starts and ends with illum. I'm sorry about there is no point to pvp in this game because its favoring one side, the zerging side and apparently on the majority of severs its the imperials. Heck I don't mind being outnumbered, I don't mind facing a challenge, I don't mind being on the loosing side. But when it comes down to a GEAR RACE AND IT FAVORS ONE SIDE, THE MORE POPULATED SIDE, your game is broken bio-ware.

 

Roaming around on Ilum the last couple of days really irritated me simply because Imperials generally had ALL the battle objectives which meant THEY GOT 300% bonus to Valor gain IF THEY CONTROL ILUM IN ADDITION to however much they get from the having 5x objectives.

 

I don't know about you but on my sever its a constant spawn camp fest. And when they have all 5 points AND the controlling Ilum bonus, its only a kick in the face when they get "DEFENDER BONUS FOR DEFENDING A BATTLE OBJECTIVE WHICH HAPPENS TO BE OUR BASE AKA OUR SPAWNING POINT." So heck while the "smaller faction" gets 20 valor for killing someone in OUR spawn, they're getting what? 240? 300 a kill? Nah I'm exagerating, its a 200 cap for valor per kill. I know the most I'VE EVER Gotten was like 120 total for control 4 points and defending. I don't have to be a rocket scientist to figure out out but lets all math here.

 

(200/20) x 100 = 1,000% faster valor gain for imperials to republic

 

But hey, the majority of my Ilum kills come from getting spawn camped, guarding someone while they heal and hope to god i get credit. But hey, they STILL have our BASE DEFENDER BONUS FOR SPAWN CAMPING?!? So even if we have ONE point, they still get MORE valor FOR defending A POINT and KILLING republic players.

 

For owning 1 points you get +200% valor per kill. Thats 40 bonus + 20 Base for a kill = 60 a kill.

For owning 2 points you get +250% valor per kill. Thats 50 bonus + 20 base for a kill = 70 a kill

For owning 3 points you get +300% valor per kill. Thats 60 bonus + 20 Base = 80 for a kill.

For owning 4 points you get +350% valor per kill. Thats 70 bonus + 20 Base = 90 for a kill

For owning 5 points you get +400% per kill.... Thats 80 bonus + 20 base = 100 for a kill

AND a +300% BONUS FOR CONTROLING ILUM = Thats 60 bonus + 20 Base = 80 for a kill + the 100 from 5 points = 180 total Valor....

 

But wait, if they're camping us with 5 points and all the bonuses (defender and controling Ilum) They get the 180 as stated above + 20 more as it caps @ 200... Or so I've been told....

 

But somehow even if they control 5 points, we get credit for 1 or maybe 2 sometimes..

so:

(200/60) x 100 = 333% faster valor gain for imperials than republic

(200/70) x 100 = 285% faster valor gain for imperials to republic

Either way, its faster as a imperial to get valor faster.

 

But this is the part that pisses me off the most.

a) EVERYONE GETS VALOR FOR BEING "INVOLVED" in a KILL. *** IS THAT. Everyone should get the KILL CREDIT FOR THE ILUM DAILY AND WEEKLY BUT NOT EVERYONE SHOULD GET VALOR FOR TAPPING SOMEONE'S ***. Every game I've ever played you get THE MOST amount of rewards if you SOLO someone in PVP, and a fraction of the total of what they were worth is divided amonst EVERYONE Else who was involved in the kill. The person who "tagged" the target usually gets the most followed by whoever got the deathblow and then everyone else involved gets "something."

 

WHAT KIND OF COMMUNIST MOTHER%$^#*&^ BULL^%&$ IS THIS?!?!

 

b) This carries off into the warzones, its obvoius when the side that heavily outnumbered the other had more 50s to begin with and could farm the 20s and 30s in the warzones till battle master until they added brackets, but now all they have to do is move around in the zerg and zerg someone down to get full credit for both valor and the kill. Its insane cause it really killed the balance of this game.

 

Possible solution:

I came from warhammer and they were "ingenious" in that they added something called... Against all odds (AAO). AAO was only for open world pvp in PVP MAPS ONLY. They scaled the bonuses of the kill reward for the outnumbered faction raning from 120% UP TO 400%(4:1 ratio). It doens't have to THAT drastic, but it gave people insentives to go out and die and hope to get ONE KILL. It increased server activity AS everyone created gank groups and hoped to get a few kills in before they got zerged down.

 

Its not going fix anything, but its a start to trying to fix the possible irreversible damage they did by releasing this game in the state it was.

 

Flame on, trollolololol on

I don't care, my sub runs out soon, i don't have to deal with you all much longer.

 

Bump to be heard people.

 

Edit: To clarify AAO in war-hammer scaled depending on how many people were current in that zone. If there were 30 of faction A and 15 of faction B. Faction B would get a 200% "valor bonus" per kill in the open world PVP map. This encouraged lots of mini groups to look around for small fights and encouraged looking for solo kills as you got THE MOST valor from those kills. What's the reward for being on the loosing faction in this game? Nothing, just slower valor gain, slower gear gain, less in war zones because your out geared.

Edited February 1, 2012 by Eljayz

[Edenwolf]

Good read, well said. The system as is, allows for the rich to get richer and the poor to get poorer, this has always been a recipe for disaster. I'm ok with faction imbalance, it is a problem with a lot of games, but when this is the case you must give the under populated side tools that will give them a fighting chance, or simply the will to fight. I am not for giving the low pop realm boost to stats, as this makes for unfair small scale fights, but Jay was right on the mark when he mentioned the warhammer AAO system.

 

Reward the low pop realm for challenging the impossible odds, not punish them. Giving us bonus valor when fighting against the odds will be the incentive for players to come out and fight. No it shouldnt equal that of owning the zone, but enough to justify going out to fight the impossible.

Edited February 1, 2012 by Edenwolf

[Shrug]

well, with the players you have, on republic you have to team up and do strategy, you can conquer sith, if you use some communication, leadership and strategy and not just get 24 guys in a ball and roll, because sith will always have that.. if you send 6 here, 6 there, etc etc you can overtake obectives and get some kills even if you don't win most of the time... 8 on 5, 4 on 6, 3 on 5's start to happen and skill becomes a reality..

 

The next problem is that people don't play because it's not working right and this will kill the gmae... basically players are re-roilling elsewhere, so all pve planets will become faction sided... and pvp is worthess... then you have core players that pvp on pve just to get away from the grief pvping, which is why they chose that, they feel abandoned by the game and they usually unsub...

 

There's no character transfer to help them... after grinding a 50 out in valor legitimately.. then knowing you have to go to another server and do the same, not very likely when there is no certainty the game will be there when they arive..

 

Free character transfers is a must implement, or the game will drop pvp altogher

[Eljayz]

So when does skill be come a reality, your missing the point all together. I could take 6 people and go around *********** with imperials on the way but whats the point? Your overlooking the point I'm trying to make. Its not that we don't try to organize. The point I'm TRYING to make in this thread is this: In the SAME AMOUNT OF TIME they get more valor for "camping" our spawn, than i would ever get moving around in the group picking off guys that give me minimal amount...

[Shrug]

So when does skill be come a reality, your missing the point all together. I could take 6 people and go around *********** with imperials on the way but whats the point? Your overlooking the point I'm trying to make. Its not that we don't try to organize. The point I'm TRYING to make in this thread is this: In the SAME AMOUNT OF TIME they get more valor for "camping" our spawn, than i would ever get moving around in the group picking off guys that give me minimal amount...

 

oh sorry, i thought you were talking about something important

[Mularky]

I have the same problem on Kayburr Crystal this guild invictus just owns the pvp ranks this needs to fixed NOW!!! Not later not in a month or two not when the feel like not when these guilds stop sucking the devs dic*s

[Eljayz]

No need to be sorry, I'm just sorry you can't transfer off to an easier sever to play on.

[Ribtips]

I come from AoC which is a pretty hardcore pvp game. Everyone's red so everyone's dead. That being said I've been zerged a lot. In AoC while you are on the rez pad you are immune to damage until you engage someone. This allows you to gather up some friends on the pad and put up a fight together. It's a a good system that should be looked at

[Galendril]

I do like the idea of the AAO from Warhammer

 

granted I haven't personally been to Ilum yet (as I'm not 50), but I could easily see your frustration.

 

BW, listen up please!

 

a system like that could easily make the game more enjoyable, even for the underdogs.

[Red_Cruiser]

PvP in this game is just boring and dull and pointless, just like the rest of the game.

[Sinvx]

What do you want BW to do? Force people to play Republic? All you need is 20-30 people and you're good to go. Zerging does not work against organized groups. You should also get your Battlemasters to grab objective points for the bonus while you kill their Zerg. Tis what we do on Iron Citadel to get ourselves more battle masters. Edited February 1, 2012 by Sinvx

[Internicio]

1) couldn't do my daily on Ilum because no republic around to group with...was able to get a couple of sith alone and get a few kills after several hours, but mostly i was getting killed 1v3 or more

 

and like the OP said, they were getting a large bonus for killing me many v 1 and I was getting 20 valor for killing one of them before a swarm of them came to kill me

 

2) the daily/weekly is hugely important to pvp gear progression

3) and gear is in turn very important to pvp abilty

 

put 1-3 together and it is very frustrating to try to pvp on the republic side

 

this will probably be enough to make me not want to play this game

 

edit:

also the fact that there is no point to the world pvp other than the dailies/weeklies isn't helping wither

Edited February 1, 2012 by Internicio

[Duran-]

You could have just made a character on a different server

[Brutem]

Its a good post, though in all seriousness Bioware has been catering to empire since beta. Mirrors are not mirrors and other imbalances can be found in these 2 threads.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=101553

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=164411

 

 

That being said, Bioware has announced they are working on another faction vs same faction warzone. For me i take this as "We dont care about nor belive faction imbalance is an issue, but we are making it so the empire can play other maps instead of Huttball"

 

Would be nice to see something done, before either

a) the remaining republic rerolls empire

b) the republic player base unsubs and heads to some of the other games dropping this year

 

Personally i dont think there is any other options if the game stays on the path it is now, though maybe it will take option a or b to happen before they notice the problem and have to change the title of the game to Star Wars: The Empire Only Faction.

[denpic]

I have made it to ilum yet but I'm thinking

They should give it the winter grasp treatment

Which applies a buff called tenacity

Whichever side has the less player present gets the buff

 

In winter grasp the buff enabled for example 10 players to compete against 40

And still have fighting chance

[Brool]

the *community* needs to be part of the solution, not the problem.

 

That being said, I dont see this game tanking at all, no matter how many cry fail.

[shon_tsu]

Unfortunately, as pointed out in the OP, they've come up with a system that rewards the zerg side for zerging, and punishes the smaller side for being outnumbered. Most games would try for the opposite affect.

[Sinvx]

the *community* needs to be part of the solution, not the problem.

 

That being said, I dont see this game tanking at all, no matter how many cry fail.

 

Mhmm. This issue could easily be fixed by the community. Have a vent for everyone to use, and Organize Ilum groups daily. Hell, when my guild only had 4 50's, we just made an Ops group, and started inviting our friends, next thing you know we pulled together 20+ people. Some people even offered to let us use their vent while we did this, so we could communicate better.

[Sinvx]

Unfortunately, as pointed out in the OP, they've come up with a system that rewards the zerg side for zerging, and punishes the smaller side for being outnumbered. Most games would try for the opposite affect.

 

You should read past the OP, as there are great solutions to solve your problem with this.

[Brutem]

You could have just made a character on a different server

 

Most servers are heavy empire, so the faction imbalance is game wide, not server wide.

[glenbruton]

Its a PvE game. If bad PvP killed games WoW would be dead too. OMG its PvP is awful, it cant even get its battlegrounds right.

[NYzMikey]

PvP in this game is just boring and dull and pointless, just like the rest of the game.

 

But the story is so good!... lol who am I kidding

[CupieFoxtail]

Ilum is on the right track

Just don't go there until your faction has a healthy sized group and recap nodes while killing the other side

This is how world PvP works

Edited February 1, 2012 by CupieFoxtail

[Brutem]

Its a PvE game.

 

Yes the game is a PVE game, story based MMO. However the issue is, alot of the player base, will queue up for pvp, to pass time before a Operations run starts, or while waiting for more of their friends to come online, etc...

 

When knowing you will face rolled by a higher number of players in world pvp or will be facing thouse whom gained their BM gear from farming lowbies and exploits in Ilum it kind of takes the PvP aspect out of the game for your faction.

[Flashwing]

yeah the game has goten really retarded I have been trying to finish my daily pvp for the past 8 hours I wont two of those games and only got credit for one of them. Oh and btw all the damn games were 7 or 8 republics vs 12 emps. This game has frustrated me too much for the day. I am about to put my CE for sale on damn amazon. PLease Bioware pay attention to what is going on in your game and the ones who are paying a monthly fee to see you favor empire.