JBloom Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 All they gotta do is make the opener fill resolve again. Problem solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modjoconcarne Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Oh yes i press the CC break the second i'm stunned, i can even say in 0.5s w/o a doubt, maybe you should play something else than MMOs to gain better reflexes. I don't know if the best part in your topic is you trying to convince yourself that triple nerf on your opener is a buff because you gained half a resolve bar (rofl) or you showing you are an awful pvper, mistaking stuns and mez or taking 1 second and a half to break a CC. Ahah, you made my day. Dude it is a buff ... last week i was able to actually "fight" them as a fully geared battlemaster guardian ... now i just feel like there is no difference if it s me or my cat playing ... 10 sec max and i m dead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modjoconcarne Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) All they gotta do is make the opener fill resolve again. Problem solved. The damage is still out of control ... 630 expertise and i still get hit for an average of 2k5 every 1.5 sec ... Edited January 31, 2012 by Modjoconcarne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ossos Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Oh yes i press the CC break the second i'm stunned, i can even say in 0.5s w/o a doubt, maybe you should play something else than MMOs to gain better reflexes. I don't know if the best part in your topic is you trying to convince yourself that triple nerf on your opener is a buff because you gained half a resolve bar (rofl) or you showing you are an awful pvper, mistaking stuns and mez or taking 1 second and a half to break a CC. Ahah, you made my day. Actually reacting in half a second is slow. You SHOULD be able to react in 0.03 seconds. It takes less than that time for the signal to get to your fingers. The reflexes of most people catching an object falling off the table are around that fast. So you're should be at least that fast. Now, regardless of how FAST you are, the game won't respond that quickly. So, for the sake of arguement: 0.0 sec Opener 0.5 sec Break CC button pressed <1.0 sec but <1.6 sec the game reacts fast enough for you to break stun and move out of melee range, and or return a CC. Either way, it's a full GCD that you're unable to return. Let us know how it goes for you tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laikacosmo Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 All they gotta do is make the opener fill resolve again. Problem solved. They've got crack BW staff on it! Coming Soon in 2013! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agroovesak Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 You seem upset... Are you mad, bro? Btw, you can't stunlock anyone for 7s, the best you can do IF not trinketed is 5.5s. Welcome to the world of normal classes. I thought everyone just removed their trinket when fighting operatives. Or was that just forum BS to get the nerfs rolling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zqsd Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Dude it is a buff ... last week i was able to actually "fight" them as a fully geared battlemaster guardian ... now i just feel like there is no difference if it s me or my cat playing ... 10 sec max and i m dead Either you are trolling or there is something wrong in your template / gear / gameplay. The only problem i had with op was IF they opened me AND if i did'nt have my CC breaker on, which, even with ~650 expertise, was bringing me to 30% health at worst vs well geared operatives... If i got the jump on them i was destroying them, if i trinketed and used CC / defensive CD, i was destroying them. In all honesty i always thought that operatives had an opening burst pretty ridiculous wich needed some kind of nerf but, toe to toe, they are rather weak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ossos Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Actually, they need to reduce the crit chance mechanic for the two classes. Stims or not, Operatives/Scoundrels crit all the time. Think about YOUR CLASS. Regardless of what it is, think about how hard you hit when you actually get a decent crit. Well, Ops/scoundrels crit like that ALL THE TIME! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laikacosmo Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 The only problem i had with op was IF they opened me AND if i did'nt have my CC breaker on, which, even with ~650 expertise, was bringing me to 30% health at worst vs well geared operatives... So... The only time you had a problem with them is if they are stupid, or if they were wailing on someone else? I get it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kholvan Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 You are 90% correct. That's why you typically won't see me unless I'm opening on you. As for the other 10%. I still see high numbers when not opening. You'd be surprized. The Ops/Scoundrel issue wasn't the stun and it was the opening damage. It is our consistent ability to crit our b-alls off! ..well, to crit your b-alls off. I get that a lot of PvPers care way too much about 1v1. Ops/Smugs certainly can be frustrating in that environment, but isn't that the point of the class? As far as I'm concerned, if you're stealthed, you're not capping objectives. You're also not killing me - apart from the opener. I know you can defend a bit from stealth, at least against one opponent. That doesn't seem overpowered. With all my heals off cooldown - and with a 5.5s delay at the start, they pretty much are - I can heal myself from 1% to full in 12 to 17 seconds, depending on your interrupts. Either my bubble was up and ate a chunk of your opener, or even better - I put it up after the stun is over and you have to get through it with your plinky non-opener DPS. I don't care that I can't kill you if you can't kill me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laikacosmo Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Actually, they need to reduce the crit chance mechanic for the two classes. ^-tenchars-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jest Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Actually, they need to reduce the crit chance mechanic for the two classes. Stims or not, Operatives/Scoundrels crit all the time. Think about YOUR CLASS. Regardless of what it is, think about how hard you hit when you actually get a decent crit. Well, Ops/scoundrels crit like that ALL THE TIME! This could be the issue but I think Crit rate would need to be addressed across the board. That and the fact that Surge becomes ridiculously powerful at high (gear) levels. The difference between a Scoundrel/Op Crit rate vs say a Jugg/Guard or Sorc/Sage would be the gear stacks that stat more naturally. But the actual Value of Crit in terms of usefulness may be too high in the game overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zqsd Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 So... The only time you had a problem with them is if they are stupid, or if they were wailing on someone else? I get it... Tell me how they can know my CC breaker is up or not or tell me they can know i'm even here while i'm stealthed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ossos Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I get that a lot of PvPers care way too much about 1v1. Ops/Smugs certainly can be frustrating in that environment, but isn't that the point of the class? As far as I'm concerned, if you're stealthed, you're not capping objectives. You're also not killing me - apart from the opener. I know you can defend a bit from stealth, at least against one opponent. That doesn't seem overpowered. With all my heals off cooldown - and with a 5.5s delay at the start, they pretty much are - I can heal myself from 1% to full in 12 to 17 seconds, depending on your interrupts. Either my bubble was up and ate a chunk of your opener, or even better - I put it up after the stun is over and you have to get through it with your plinky non-opener DPS. I don't care that I can't kill you if you can't kill me. And there you go. If I can't kill you, I'll go kill someone else. Not sure what the issue is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EternalFinality Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) Actually reacting in half a second is slow. You SHOULD be able to react in 0.03 seconds. It takes less than that time for the signal to get to your fingers. The reflexes of most people catching an object falling off the table are around that fast. So you're should be at least that fast. Actually, human reaction time is more like 400 ms. That's 0.4 seconds. You are not special. You cannot react in 0.03 seconds. Edited January 31, 2012 by EternalFinality Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silverspar Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) The damage is still out of control ... 630 expertise and i still get hit for an average of 2k5 every 1.5 sec ... Eh? You realize most other classes hit that hard? Hell, I am a tank in PvP and I am just a little below that and I am not even in full PvP gear. Edited January 31, 2012 by Silverspar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modjoconcarne Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Either you are trolling or there is something wrong in your template / gear / gameplay. The only problem i had with op was IF they opened me AND if i did'nt have my CC breaker on, which, even with ~650 expertise, was bringing me to 30% health at worst vs well geared operatives... If i got the jump on them i was destroying them, if i trinketed and used CC / defensive CD, i was destroying them. In all honesty i always thought that operatives had an opening burst pretty ridiculous wich needed some kind of nerf but, toe to toe, they are rather weak. The problem is that even when i survive the opener with my trinket i get a flashbang in the face then vanish reopen ... dead . I dont think im a bad player . I used to have 2k5 rating in wow so ithink i should be able to "do" something . I dont have an issue with losing a fight . I have an issue with the fact of not being able to do a thing . I got the opener 3 times on an operative today ... he "TANKED ME " and killed me 3 TIMES with NO opener !!! I was like *** !!! I imediatly checked my gear and everything ... i think i m gonna give up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lascero Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Actually, human reaction time is more like 400 ms. That's 0.4 seconds. That number is probably muddied by people who don't play reflex intensive games, and have no reflex training/adaptation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ossos Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 The problem is that even when i survive the opener with my trinket i get a flashbang in the face then vanish reopen ... dead . I dont think im a bad player . I used to have 2k5 rating in wow so ithink i should be able to "do" something . I dont have an issue with losing a fight . I have an issue with the fact of not being able to do a thing . I got the opener 3 times on an operative today ... he "TANKED ME " and killed me 3 TIMES with NO opener !!! I was like *** !!! I imediatly checked my gear and everything ... i think i m gonna give up Sucker punch is free and spammable for 3 hits if the stars are aligned. The stars usually align in this manner if you're in an open/exposed fight. My sucker punches do 1.8K to 6k dmg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valsdad Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 The problem is that even when i survive the opener with my trinket i get a flashbang in the face then vanish reopen ... dead . I dont think im a bad player . I used to have 2k5 rating in wow so ithink i should be able to "do" something . I dont have an issue with losing a fight . I have an issue with the fact of not being able to do a thing . I got the opener 3 times on an operative today ... he "TANKED ME " and killed me 3 TIMES with NO opener !!! I was like *** !!! I imediatly checked my gear and everything ... i think i m gonna give up An operative can't "tank" anything. Scoundrel/Op is probably the squishiest class in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ossos Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 That number is probably muddied by people who don't play reflex intensive games, and have no reflex training/adaptation. he could be completely right. I could be way off. Either way, the slower the reaction time, the more it proves my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modjoconcarne Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Eh? You realize most other classes hit that hard? Well as a vigilence guardian i can pull out a 3k every 6 sec overwise it s 1k5 ... 2k5 EVERY 1.5 sorry it s too much considering what you eat during the opener 4k opener +2.5 +2.5+2.5 ... sorry but i can t do that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kholvan Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 And there you go. If I can't kill you, I'll go kill someone else. Not sure what the issue is. And I'll heal someone else. Maybe your target - even when he's stunlocked. My comments in this thread were that I didn't see an issue so long as you only get us to 50% with your opening sequence. So now we just have to see if that's what happens against similarly geared opponents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nowyourdead Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 How many of you have actually pvped this morning? I'm not sure about you guys but it's damn near impossible to find a match so I highly doubt all you QQers have actually played and have actually went against an Ops. It's because of you people why these nerfs happen, so you have yourselves to thank for any changes in-game to classes. So what that you didn't go 65-0 with 400k damage and 300k healing on your sorc - if you want to win every time why don't you play Sonic or Mario? And to the tool that said they have full BM and were hit with 10k and 11k hits, show a screenshot please I beg you. I thought my kids were a bunch of crybabies, holy cow man you so-called-adults take the cake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasheth Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) See, you're assuming that I am crying and/or happy about being OP'd. Actually, it's niether. I'm laughingly frustrated at all of it. This has been a failed nerf. The patch has resulted in a buff. So now, there's only going to be more forum spam. There are going to be more rages in general and guild chat. More guildies are going to da|\/|N their ops/scoundrel guild mates REGARDLESS of how good their guildmates actually are. Ultimately, I believe that Scoundrels/Operatives will be nerfed appropriately. However, I don't have confidence that balance will be the result. Given how poorly the fix was made during this patch, it is VERY likely that the classes (Ops/Scoundrels) will be nerfed to broken in the near future. ALL THE WHILE players spam on the forums and in chat "QQ MORE WE LOVE YOUR TEARS OF YOUR BROKEN CLASS!!!" All the while, there are people who simply liked the mechanics of the stealth classes and were able to add/contribute to their side in a manner that fit them. Ops/Scoundrels need to be balanced. This patch made it worse. Forums and chat will get worse. Ultimately, Ops/scoundrels will end up broken and less than functional. ...this is why it's all frustratingly laughable. So your happy because you THINK BW failed? They changed everything as they said they would they never put NERF in there patch notes did they?. I mean really every class is doing the same thing. You open with a low resolve stun deal your damage then when they cc break use long stun to finish them off. I don't get whats so funny about this for you. Its like your getting a kick because you want BW to fail or appear to have failed. When in truth majority of the people knee jerked cause they thought the class was totally dead no longer viable, ruined or whatever over the top terms the QQs used. What is being missed is that they didnt over nerf the class. Which is most of the QQ was about. So if it is a slight buff somewhere else oh well. Obviously they didnt do this based on all the QQ on the forums cause then they would have knee jerked and over nerfed it. So while you might see it as a failure you could look at it as a positive thing because it could be a tweak. Then if more adjustments need to be done then they will do it again. Whats the big deal? You win no cookie cause you were right. That's the problem with alot of people on this forums they want to be the ONE to say I told you so. In the end it gets buried under all the topics anyway. "shrug" Edited January 31, 2012 by Rasheth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts