This game badly needs mods and macros.

[hsram]

This same discussion happened when WoW first came out and they ended up releasing the API because that's what the customers wanted. People who were against it, slowly got over it and liked the idea of AddOns...this will be no different.

 

If they don't release the API for us to make AddOns then they rest assure that it will drop like RIFT did.

[Scubatron]

Wow! There are already over 3k posts about mods and addons. Although my sentiments have probably already been represented, I'll give my two cents. I like to heal, and I like having my action buttons in convenient places. There are a lot of useful abilities in this game, and it would be nice to be able to have some UI mods so I can group my abilities in convenient places. The truth is that there is a lot of useable space at the bottom of the screen that can be used for circumstantial abilities, that is being wasted.

 

Also, as a healer, it'd be nice to have a more customizable party/raid frame along with the power to move my (mostly useless while I'm healing) character frame and target frame.

 

In WoW, I enjoy the convenience of binding mouse buttons via an addon. I do not believe that reducing the number of clicks to perform a thought-out action constitutes cheating. Nor do I believe that it gives an unfair advantage. It just facilitates the think-ahead thought process that a good healer should already posses.

 

At the very least, we should have more options to adjust the UI. Be it through the original game or the use of addons, the number of fun/useful/intuitive abilities justifies having more places to put them.

[zmoose]

This proves that it’s a convenience not a necessity to do the game content. All content has been cleared without the use of them. You still fail to prove that they are needed. When the content gets to the point where it is needed to clear the content then the add-ons are needed.

 

While an API for modding may not be required to play the game. In my opinion the use of mods and macros to customize the UI and information from the game makes it more fun to play. I hated the default WoW interface and hate the default SWTOR interface too. It's a personal preference. Those who like it or don't care can continue to play with defaults. I would like the ability to customize it how I want. Not how the Bioware developers think I want it. I also wouldn't want them to spend valuable time working on making their interface customizable when their time could be better spent on creating new content for us to play. Give us the means and we'll do that work for you.

 

I think WoW became better over time with regards to its features and interface in large part due to the modding communities contributions. Just as I think SWTOR will become a better product over time with an active mod community if given the chance.

Edited February 11, 2012 by zmoose

[Navakai]

If they don't release the API for us to make AddOns then they rest assure that it will drop like RIFT did.

 

So so true.

[TheNdoki]

You still fail to prove that they are needed.

I'm not trying to prove their needed, I'm trying to point out that they're important. Just as important as high-definition graphics, stereo (or any) sound, or even decent control. I'll let bioware know they are only a convenience and should be removed until someone convinces me they are a must-have too. Maybe the same time addons are allowed.

 

Actually yes they do provide information that is not available in the game. The PvP mod for wow actually showed you there cool downs, spec, everything about the player and that is not available in the game threw normal means.

Actually WoW's own armory showed all that, and their cooldowns could be easily calculated simply by counting. The addon just processed that data FOR us.

 

the players using that mod had a distinct advantage over players that dint have it.

And the only reason someone wouldn't have it is because they chose not to download it, so it's hardly unfair.

 

DBM showed boss abilities that where going to proc when said boss ability had zero emote or in game graphic before it happened. Even events that were supposed to be on a random timer where placed into the DBM add-on.

Actually DBM just counted down the timers for the boss abilities and let you know when it was going to happen. Again, same thing any person could do in their head. As for 'random timers' I don't recall it ever telling me when Ony was about to use deep breath, but I'd LOVE to see an example where it could accurately predict a random event before it would happen without any in-game information available.

 

You no longer had to pay attention to the boss. Now you just watched for flashes or voices on your screen. There where fights in BC, most of wrath that once I installed DBM I quit paying attention to the fight all together and read my book and still toped the DPS. I will say this, it was not solely DBM’s fault that I could do this, it was also poor mechanic design on the encounter. However without DBM I would have at least had to pay attention to the fight.

Paying attention to an addon telling you the boss is about to do something is the exact same as paying attention to the boss emoting it's about to do something, the only difference was blizzard did a terrible job of it and DBM fixed it. Besides, if DBM made fights that easy then everyone would have cleared all the endgame raids. I suppose you've cleared dragon soul 25 while reading and still topped DPS? I didn't think so... Even if it DID make fights brain-numbingly easy, if that bothers you there's a simple solution, don't use it. I don't see how something being optional is a reason it should be removed.

 

Raid leaders also had an add-on that showed the status of consumables and how many reagents the player had on them. Last I checked /inspect did not show you the contents of that players bags or how much stuff they carried on them.

Never heard of that one, but even if that's true, so what? It's wrong to be prepared? If you want to run with a bunch of people who are just along to wipe the group 20 times in a row I know some guys who would LOVE to raid with you. If someone gets booted out of a group for not being prepared then why don't they go get the regents, or better yet, find a group that doesn't care? Like the group you apparently run with? Also I see you admit you know about /inspect, guess you just forgot about that when you said "showed you everything about the player and that is not available in the game threw normal means"?

 

The rotation mod that folks downloaded, that was so cheatable if you knew how. You could download a mouse program that would basically turn your mouse into a repeat clicker just by setting the settings on it. It would set your mouse curser to the same spot on the screen and threw the program make the game think you where actually clicking your mouse.

Yes, that's called a bot, not an addon. Bots are against blizzard's ToS, addons are not because get this: addons don't play the game for you. Secondly, rotation mods can't account for everything in-game, so their dps would still suck, and they'd still die if they were using it to afk.

 

They are not available to everyone. Some systems are at the low level to run the game much less add-ons. Therefore these players do not have the ability to run with the add-ons.

Guess what?, there are some addons that actually make the game run better! Go figure.

 

 

 

The progression guilds in wow require them and you would be hard pressed to find a guild that dint and was still a progression guild.

WRONG! There are plenty of progression guilds that didn't require them. That's just using a false generalization to try and support your claim.

 

 

Actually they make it a lot easier for players to learn their rotation. There is a mod out there that will actually show you your rotation with zero effort on your part to learn it. Does it make an inherently bad player better, no it doesn’t. That part is true. But at least that bad player does good DPS while there still alive : P

Yes I used to have an addon that did that, but even under the best circumstances there are always factors that the addon can't account for, and those factors clearly separate the bad players from the good. Also I don't really see a negative to this point of yours...

 

 

Yes, they can ban the add-on. However, there are ways to cheat with add-ons that do not involve the add-on its self, See above about the rotation add-on. Secondly it is not just game play hacking that is a concern with this. It is account hacking that is the major concern. If you know what you are doing you can conceal a hack in another program (aka add-on) that a player downloads without it ever being picked up as a virus or even showing that there is a .exe hidden in the file when you go to manually look. You then gain access to that players account information and can log into their account and do whatever you want.

So your argument for banning addons is because people use bots to cheat? That's completely irrelevant.

 

As for programs hidden in the addon, that's all the more reason why BW should support addons, that way they can provide legitimate virus-free addons, instead of people searching the internet for random possibly infected addons because someone decided they didn't want bioware to allow them.

 

 

Also false like I stated before, if you want to raid and progress at the top tier the add-ons become mandatory and the guilds that refuse to use them few and far between and they are never progression guilds.

So now you're admitting that there are some guids that don't require them... Well I guess that disproves your own point earlier, but now they aren't progression guilds? Funny, mine was a progression guild and we didn't demand them... and I know ours wasn't the only guild. I suppose you've seen every single progression guild in the game though so you'd know that all of them require these addons....

 

 

As it stands right now they are a convenience to have and something that would be nice but you still have not proved that they are something that is absolutely a must have in the game.

See my first point in this post.

 

Seriously, it's a GAME, it's about ENJOYMENT. Entertainment has never really been a NEED, that's not the issue, the issue is some of us would like to enjoy the game a little more, by playing it the way we LIKE. Saying we shouldn't be able to enjoy it because it's not 'needed' is just silly, and ignoring the reason for games in the first place.

[AsheraII]

Paying attention to an addon telling you the boss is about to do something is the exact same as paying attention to the boss emoting it's about to do something, the only difference was blizzard did a terrible job of it and DBM fixed it.

And this is where you're very wrong. There is a rather big difference in DIFFICULTY between having to keep an eye out for a unique boss-emote, or a big bar in the middle of your screen warning you of the exact moment the boss is going to use some specific ability. You can easily FAIL at picking up the emote, while you simply can't miss the big countdown timer. Basically, the part that makes it difficult, and requires you to keep your eyes out for the subtle hints is what you replace with something convenient, effectively lowering the difficulty.

 

Congratulations, if you need those timers to complete an encounter, then normal modes would be more suitable to your skill level, instead of hard modes. You don't do hardmodes to then negate the component that actually makes them hard.

 

I'd actually find it hilarious if Bioware decided to disable all add-ons and macros within hard-modes. If you can't do them without those things, you're obviously not hardmode material and should train harder in normal modes.

 

In case you didn't notice: ALL content currently in game has been done without a single addon, by dozens of players across the world. This basically proves that addons and macros are NOT needed.

 

Also note that UI customizations, as you like to bring up, do not necessarily require addons or macros. That a certain other game integrated the two with eachother is an entirely different matter, the fact is, that they are different things altogether.

[Teishu]

Those kind of macros are allready in the game, if you have the funds to buy Razer Naga, a gaming keyboard, they have programmable buttons that will do exactly that and much more. Not having macros ingame will only benefit the player with better funds, make it fair to everyone with a desent macrosystem

 

ITS A GAME!! why cant people just be happy with what they have thing will grow change and hopefully get better as we go. i think instead of adding macro and the like is a problem for down the line for now lets just make what we have the best they can they go from there see what needs to be added after all the bugs r fixed. then look into adding add ons i wouldn't mind some but for me i am happy with what i have and lucky to have it.

[Rendorious]

I'm not sure if this has been touched on or not, because I just skipped the other 4000+ comments and 3 other forum threads to get to this point.

 

I've been a WoW player since shortly after it's release. I have used addons in that game for pretty much that whole time.

 

I have noticed that over the years, and maybe someone can back me up on this, many of the more popular addons that people used, Blizzard incorporated into the game. I believe that addons in that game kept the developers working on improving upon what they had, with a crutch(the addon itself) in the meantime. I also think(but who am I?) that addon usage in that game has led to it's longevity.

 

I also believe that the addons themselves keep us addon users from getting bored at looking at the same screen and information all the time. I'm not an addon developer, I don't have the skills to be one, but i have enjoyed using addons to manipulate the way my game looks and the way my information is dispayed. With some addons I can acually see what I'm doing wrong (damage or healing-wise) to improve upon my rotation

 

On another note... I have never had my account comprimised from the use of addons. I believe if you use common sense, 90% of the time you won't have any issues. I always keep my windows and security software updated and use multiple emails never giving out my main email address.

 

This is just my 2 cents... and for those that say they don't want an addon yelling "run away", how many times will you stand there and die before you lose interest in the game and subsequently move on to another game?

 

Rend

[Sky_walkerPL]

I really hate how people want n00b mode.

Flahses when mob enrages, flashes when mob attacks, arrows where to go, arrows what to do and when... Where's a pleasure of playing a game and winning where macros and addons won for you?

Edited February 11, 2012 by Sky_walkerPL

[Frostvein]

That was due to encounter design, and no mod in the world would have helped. You had a boss with a heavily RNG fourth phase, and top guilds taking 500 pulls to down him for the first time.

 

Counter question: How many guilds had 6/7 heroic Firelands?

 

Completely besides the point.

 

Mods don't make the bosses fall over. Implying that they do is a misconception.

 

Further, the real question is how many guilds were 6/7 pre-nerf? When they went in there swinging the nerf bat like crazy of course everyone was going to down content.

 

I was 6/7 pre-nerf. Guilds who were 2/7 or even 3/7 went to 6/7 in a week.

[Meldwyn]

I really hate how people want n00b mode.

Flahses when mob enrages, flashes when mob attacks, arrows where to go, arrows what to do and when... Where's a pleasure of playing a game and winning where macros and addons won for you?

 

Same reason they don't use leather helmets and lack of pads in football any more. Gear and technology progress in every aspect of life, shouldn't games be the same? Or do you think anything beyond PONG is just foolishness?

[Pelyrica]

Being an ex-Healer for a #1 guild in WoW 3 years running, I've had much experience with both sides of this arguement. Frankly, I agree w/ having add-ons so that people can put their CD timers anywhere they want to on the screen, whether via mods like Bartender, or some type of modded version of the in-game button which now shows the CD. As a healer class - you really do need to optimize your global CDs vs. your pool. Pool recovery or generation is key to winning the fight, and believe it or not - yes, even healers get caught "standing in fire". Usually this is because of a large channeled heal or a long-timed cast, but regardless even I'd like to know when to heal vs. my decurse, in conjunction with another healer in the raid. No need for double healing the same person if another can use it - right? Or a decurse on a DoT tick that's gonna wipe out your already diminishing dps on a boss? All these things are timed, and button-clicker or not - a death means creds spent on repairs. No one likes to wipe. So support your healers on this one. Let's not worry too much about who is tops on dps, or if your tank is elitist ***** material. It is a game afterall. As far as boss mods are concerned - I'd say no. It does make the game less fun. I do agree that it can be crucial for progression in some cases, but Bioware has made this game infinitely easy enough for you all to think this through. WoW suffers badly from guilds demanding that add-ons be a requirement - yes, but a lot of you don't look at how other regular players dismiss newbies because of a lack of them having any add-ons at all. It really made WoW suffer. I've done every raid from Vanilla WoW to DragonSoul hardmode - ( and yes, I finished it ) and it's a shame that WoW isn't as epic as it used to be. When Ulduar came around - it all started to go downhill. Sometimes it isn't always good to cater to the players, because it can make the game tedious. You play a MMO because you want to get to see the content, have fun, and get prizes or gear - great, but still others who are casuals just want to see a little of what you have too. Setting up too many add-ons will breed elitist ***** guilds. I've been in several. I like the idea of having in-game mods that you can choose to customize your character - but nothing like the latest version of DBM or recount is necessary. It only spoils the fun for those who don't have and would like to learn. Have a little patience for these people too - is all I'm asking. I myself have trained several healers who have gone on to other progression guilds to become great in their own right. But I always remember where I came from. I had to learn it once too, and I sucked just as bad as others did. I'm not against add-ons, but let's think more about how much we actually DON'T need vs. what most elitists would force you to require having. And for those of you who don't believe that WoW is dying - you are insane. WoW had its run, and it is a dead horse. I'm not happy about Kung Fu Panda 3 - or Panda-land that Blizz is releasing. You've got to be kidding me. Played Rift on a trial - too much repetition. At least SWTOR offers you more - so don't make it less by making it add-on rampant. Some is good, too much is bad. A forum thread should be started for the kinds and types of ( examples and reasons would be great ) add-ons used by other MMOs and the case for them. This will help Bioware decide how to push this forward. Your case is needed. Thank you all for reading. Edited February 12, 2012 by Pelyrica

[TheNdoki]

Basically, the part that makes it difficult, and requires you to keep your eyes out for the subtle hints is what you replace with something convenient, effectively lowering the difficulty.

The reason why DBM was made was because some of those 'subtle hints' were too subtle, especially in the heat of battle, and the game became more of a "where's waldo" than an actual boss fight, and I'm willing to bed majority of people weren't interested in that.

 

You don't do hardmodes to then negate the component that actually makes them hard.

Exactly! Everyone can CHOOSE if they want to use it or not, that's what's so great about OPTIONAL addons. I'm assuming since you seem so against them that you've beaten all endgame content in WoW without addons then?

 

...yeah, I'll believe that when I see it.

 

In case you didn't notice: ALL content currently in game has been done without a single addon, by dozens of players across the world. This basically proves that addons and macros are NOT needed.

And I've already addressed this point literally in the post RIGHT above yours, and dozens of other times throughout these threads. If you missed it all those times I find it hard to believe you can pick up on subtle boss emotes without dying.

 

Also, yes, TOR is stupidly easy right now, but if you think DBM is the only addon (and the only one everyone wants) then you're either seriously in denial, living in a fantasy world, or just ignoring the real issue to bring up points that don't really apply.

 

Also note that UI customizations, as you like to bring up, do not necessarily require addons or macros. That a certain other game integrated the two with eachother is an entirely different matter, the fact is, that they are different things altogether.

 

Uh, when did I ever bring up UI customizations? Only time I've ever mentioned it is to tell people that BW is already planning on doing it so people can drop it. I think you might be confusing me with someone else... Maybe if you had an addon you wouldn't have missed that 'subtle hint'.

Edited February 12, 2012 by TheNdoki

[mcwhite]

I don't understand why people want stuff that 'plays the game for you'. You literally have to be so consumed with how much better you are than the 12 year old playing down the street than with actually playing the game.

 

I really hope they don't add this crap. If it's ok to have some add-on that heals for you, then why not just buy credits from some guy in china who spent all day playing a game for a bowl of rice?

 

However I will say that being able to have simple macros that maybe would string together the usage of your buffs would be very welcome.

[Meldwyn]

I don't understand why people want stuff that 'plays the game for you'. You literally have to be so consumed with how much better you are than the 12 year old playing down the street than with actually playing the game.

 

I really hope they don't add this crap. If it's ok to have some add-on that heals for you, then why not just buy credits from some guy in china who spent all day playing a game for a bowl of rice?

 

However I will say that being able to have simple macros that maybe would string together the usage of your buffs would be very welcome.

 

So, slam the idea of changes to the game that "plays the game for you", but end with a statement where you would like something that makes it easier to buff you...

 

Priceless!

 

Customizing one's UI and adding the ability to create macro's =/= plays the game for you.

 

I bet you wash all your clothes by hand and get hot water from boiling it too?

[ihmodem]

Yeah who the hell needs addons. I drive my car with whitewall biscuit thickness tyres, the suspension collapsed so that I can feel all the bumps, power steering pump disconnected, ABS and traction control forever dssconnected and just to show I am a real man I don't use the clutch at all.

 

A real man don't need no stinkin Addons !

[Dext]

No they do not need them.

[Tainted_Rice]

Yeah who the hell needs addons. I drive my car with whitewall biscuit thickness tyres, the suspension collapsed so that I can feel all the bumps, power steering pump disconnected, ABS and traction control forever dssconnected and just to show I am a real man I don't use the clutch at all.

 

A real man don't need no stinkin Addons !

 

ROFL!!! That was awesome.

 

And to ensure I'm actually contributing to the debate instead of just trolling:

 

I understand the concern that mods and macros could change the game for the worse. I also understand the fact that people who have full-time jobs and who are exhausted at the end of the day simply want the game to be as stress-free as possible so they can wind down instead of becoming more stressed. And finally, I understand the desire of people who want to be as efficient as possible in the game so they can get achievements and gear as fast as possible.

 

What I don't understand is why people have to argue about it so much. It's a game... Who cares what other people want? As long as you play the game the way you want to, shouldn't you be happy? Why force your beliefs and desires of how the game should be played on other people?

Edited February 12, 2012 by Tainted_Rice

[Cairenn]

What I don't understand is why people have to argue about it so much. It's a game... Who cares what other people want? As long as you play the game the way you want to, shouldn't you be happy? Why force your beliefs and desires of how the game should be played on other people?

 

Indeed. Nicely said.

[Tendaras]

Peanut gallery:

 

Give me vuhdo, atlasloot, and bartender

 

That is all.

[RakeHoxven]

this isn't xbox 360 or Playstation 3. This is a PC game and Bioware has been creating PC games for almost 20 years before xbox was invented so please learn to play before learning to whine (in that order).

[Seraphynn]

I have not read the whole post and I am not going too but now I understand what the heck macros are .. I don't want them .. yes playing the game is hard work when you are a healer I know I am one myself. But that is how its meant to be. You find your own shortcuts and ways of playing without a the system of macros.

 

So no this is not something I would ever want.

 

Mods.. don't really need them.. the customization for the UI is coming out.. work it too how you like it....

 

This is not any other MMO's so drop what you know from all the other MMO's and start working with what you have here.. Stop wanting things to make the play easier. I read so many threads saying the gameplay is too easy its for the casual gamer and blah blah blah... so why on earth do you want things to make it even easier if the game is that easy to start with... does not make sense.

Edited February 16, 2012 by Seraphynn

[Navakai]

This is not any other MMO's so drop what you know from all the other MMO's and start working with what you have here.. Stop wanting things to make the play easier. I read so many threads saying the gameplay is too easy its for the casual gamer and blah blah blah... so why on earth do you want things to make it even easier if the game is that easy to start with... does not make sense.

 

The misconception is that mods and macro's make the game easier. This is false. An example.

 

 

In most other MMO's you can write a simple macro to fire off your cooldowns (that are off the global cooldown) at once.

 

In star wars, you have to manually activate and keybind each cooldown, as well as your trinkets, and / or adrenals / pvp items. *Before* you open up.

 

 

There is no challenge to the later, and it is certainly not harder. It's just clunky and cumbersome. It's hilarious seeing someone in a warzone, running around doing nothing for the first 4 seconds of a fight, because they are individually activating cooldowns. It also means by the time the 4th is activated, the first has almost ended.

 

In hindsight, why are your cooldowns off the global cooldown? I'ts common sense they are better fired off together to maximize damage. Without the ability to write macro's, why exactly did bio-ware do this? Smash 4 keys are once and be forced to keybind them to keys that are all next to each other, or in the shape of a fist? lol Why even have them off the global?

 

 

It's cumbersome, not more 'challenging' without macro's.

 

 

A 'mouse-over' heal, arguably requires more finesse and twitch based skill to do effectively, than the cumbersome 'switch target, and heal' method. It also requires you to multitask more effectively, rather than have the 'changing targets, can't and won't worry about my previous target' approach. To me the later is easier if anything.

 

 

Argue with me to your hearts content. I'm not wrong.

Edited February 16, 2012 by Navakai

[Zyanzor]

I'd love to make ability macros like in WoW, when I used to bind reactive abilities like Overpower and Rune Strike to normal ones, instead of wasting quickbar slots on them.

 

I completely agree. I miss Macros. Recount would be nice. Other than those 2 add-ons I don't see a need for anything else.

[patchew]

gods no, addons would kill this game stone dead. even macros make my nose itch. people dont design their own macros, they just go on the net and get "ultimate macros" that other people have designed.

if you want to personalise your game-play then i think its the individual person that should do this ... which macros and addons dont do. they do the work for you.

healing is certainly difficult to do as i have to use the function keys to target people. a real pain, to be honest.

tanking is easy enough. threat isnt hard to keep up, especially with taunts.

dps is simple really.

 

i suggest that healing needs to be addressed and made simpler to target people etc.

as for tanking, what people dont understand is that threat isnt like wow. dps have to wait before hitting targets and piling on the damage .. if they dont, they die.

its how wow used to be before addons/macros/instant abilitys/automatic abilities took over and killed wow stone dead.

what addons do is replace skill with automation .. a very shaky road to go down ... and, frankly, what has made wow totally dull and tedious.

isnt it infuriating when you use a spell with a 1 minute CD and the other person seems to magically instantly cast a freedom of movement ability or shield that totally removes the effect.

automation kills MMOs.

 

i think swotr should keep away from the wow logics and just keep to its own decisions on how the game is played.