SamuraBob_Fl Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I would ask the moderators to warn this person for calling some of us ignorant. That's what the flag button is for. And I didn't call anyone ignorant, I just pointed out making assertions without any basis in fact indicates a lack of knowledge, and is best described by the term "ignorance." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yakito Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 What I noticed is that when a game is doing well and sells a lot the company keeps boasting about it. When it doesn't sell well it goes silent, just like Bioware is now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jett-Rinn Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) Here is an excellent sample of this game's failure: http://beta.xfire.com/games/swtor Just keep an eye on it in the next few weeks. Its sampling nearly 10,000 players. I don't care if the demographic is different or what have you. With that many players you have a really nice mix of people. Enough to give you a good idea of how the overall trending of the game's population is going.... AND ITS GOING DOWN - FAST. Wow...I really feel sad for you that you are using Xfire to spread your BS with.... Edited January 31, 2012 by Jett-Rinn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikelGoff Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) No, I just don't give a crap about their opinion relating to a video game. Nor do I take seriously any reference that a game is doing well based on an inference to a casual consumer. So the minority should determine whether or not a game is good/doing well? Edited January 31, 2012 by MikelGoff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikelGoff Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 What I noticed is that when a game is doing well and sells a lot the company keeps boasting about it. When it doesn't sell well it goes silent, just like Bioware is now. How often should they brag? Daily? Weekly? Monthly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkCarnage Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Here is an excellent sample of this game's failure: http://beta.xfire.com/games/swtor Just keep an eye on it in the next few weeks. Its sampling nearly 10,000 players. I don't care if the demographic is different or what have you. With that many players you have a really nice mix of people. Enough to give you a good idea of how the overall trending of the game's population is going.... AND ITS GOING DOWN - FAST. so we should use a 3rd party group program that only a small sample size uses? i rather wait for hard data from a primay sorces so it is correct and useful for gadging how the game going. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jett-Rinn Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 What I noticed is that when a game is doing well and sells a lot the company keeps boasting about it. When it doesn't sell well it goes silent, just like Bioware is now. In every interview they are saying Millions of people are playing and the game is growing...they are also doing their jobs which is bug fixing and developing more content Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oseaswe Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 /yawn MBA's are people who fabricate market data out of thin air. At least if 2008 was any indication. Not exactly out of thin air. I frequent various gaming forums and origin is universally reviled. It's quite possible most people bought their copy via origin, people's stupidity doesn't surprise me anymore. I am keeping the hell away from EA's buggy crap software. Also, if you know anything about this field of study, you know it's really hard to make extremely reliable predictions. Most are based on intuition rather than hard facts. An example of this is the market equilibrium hypothesis. It basically means no one can beat the market by betting on a stock unless they have inside knowledge. Stocks are priced according to information the corporation makes public as they are required by federal law. EA hasn't released any hard data re subscription numbers or sales. We just know the game has sold approximately 2 million copies and that the server numbers appear to be falling. There are more light servers now than a month ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FormlessOne Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Here is an excellent sample of this game's failure: http://beta.xfire.com/games/swtor Just keep an eye on it in the next few weeks. Its sampling nearly 10,000 players. I don't care if the demographic is different or what have you. With that many players you have a really nice mix of people. Enough to give you a good idea of how the overall trending of the game's population is going.... AND ITS GOING DOWN - FAST. What that says to anyone with even a basic understanding of statistics is: "The group of people who use XFire, voluntarily provide their game playing information, and play SWTOR, may fluctuate." Given that the game has over a million active accounts, you're asking us to watch less than 1% of the population and treat it as a representative sample. Sure, why not? But, what you fail to mention is that: On XFire, SWTOR is the fifth most popular game currently played.Currently, XFire players are playing fewer hours per week, but more hours than played just two weeks ago. The trending currently shown covers a 4 week period of activity. In other words, who cares? It's not a statistically significant portion of the population, it's not a random sampling, and it's not trended long enough to be useful to anyone but advertisers. So, among a tiny population of SWTOR players, a subset that voluntarily provides usage data to XFire, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansultares Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) That happens in every MMO release that I have been a part of for the last 12 years. An average of 10-15% quit. They try it say this is not for me and move on so first month is never a good indicator.Not even the most optimistic forecasts expect an 85-90% retention rate. i rather wait for hard data from a primay sorces so it is correct and useful for gadging how the game going.We know already that they'll likely hide the number if it reflects poorly on the game. It's exactly what they did with WAR. Edited January 31, 2012 by Ansultares Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tighe-Chimaera Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 The saying "empty barrels make the most noise" comes to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berrett Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 *looks at server list* light light light light light light light light light light standard light Yeah i don't see fail anywhere. you posted this at what 1am in the morning of course there's only light servers at 1am... And this post fails if you don't like the game **** imo... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oseaswe Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 So the minority should determine whether or not a game is good/doing well? Casuals use arguments (this is a real example) such as "I paid for a 6 months subscription because I don't have that much time to play, so now I can just play whenever I can without having to worry about renewing" In fact, the more you play, the more value you get for those 15$ bucks. Also, the more you play, the more glaring the flaws of this game becomes. That's why hardcore MMO players know more than your girlfriend and your sister. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilsildor Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) I say it every time. My basis of "failed" is on the fact that 8/10 friends who i started playing this game with all quit. And I myself, just hit unsubscribe today. 5 bugs in 1 minute for the last time, that gets me killed and puts me on the other side of the map wasting like 15 minutes of my time. And I mean you can easily look at this and be like "Wow, you're quitting because the game bugged out and made you lose 15 minutes out of how much time you probably spend on here?" Or whatever your argument may be... but no... If I had an excellent memory, which I don't. I'd recall for you countless times where this game has upset/disappointed/frustrated/infuriated/etc me. Mostly due to bugs, performance issues or horrible design choices, mistakes, limitations, restrictions, errors, etc... If I dialogued every one of my single issues I kid you not, I would've created probably at least a 100 page book by now. Dec 17 - Jan 30. Heck, I made a post, in 3 days I had 80 issues. The sad thing is, a lot of those issues repeated themselves constantly, but I only wrote them down once. That was about 3 weeks ago. It was deleted a day after it was posted. People were adding more and more various issues that even I wasn't encountering and were unique. Out of my 80 issues, I think 5 or so have been fixed in the past 3 weeks. With promises of some minor fixes or updates coming in March. But out of the things I liked? Well I enjoyed the class story to a degree, though I felt they weren't incredibly well written. I LOVED Kaon Under Siege, but mostly because it was a copy of L4D and I loved that game. I liked a lot of dialogue scenes like where the Sith Warrior stabs that mother and throws her against the wall, or when the Bounty Hunter says "You will realize what a complete idiot you are." Mostly, I enjoyed interacting with the community... The sociable community anyways that weren't douchebags. Everything else just feels subpar so I can't really say I liked it, =/ as I've seen similar things done better. I guess that's all really, I still have a guild though so IF something changes soon that makes me reconsider... well MAYBE... I don't know what that could be though. Edited January 31, 2012 by Ilsildor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamuraBob_Fl Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) Not exactly out of thin air. I frequent various gaming forums and origin is universally reviled. It's quite possible most people bought their copy via origin, people's stupidity doesn't surprise me anymore. I am keeping the hell away from EA's buggy crap software. Also, if you know anything about this field of study, you know it's really hard to make extremely reliable predictions. Most are based on intuition rather than hard facts. An example of this is the market equilibrium hypothesis. It basically means no one can beat the market by betting on a stock unless they have inside knowledge. Stocks are priced according to information the corporation makes public as they are required by federal law. EA hasn't released any hard data re subscription numbers or sales. We just know the game has sold approximately 2 million copies and that the server numbers appear to be falling. There are more light servers now than a month ago. If you knew anything about statistics you'd know that you don't get reliable data from self-selected samples like forums at all. That's like trying to gauge the political views of the American public by reading comment threads on Foxnews.com. The whole intuition v. hard facts thing? Yeah, I understand that. I'm just amazed that people don't find it immediately obvious that your better off admitting that's a terrible way to make predictions. Yeah, we don't know anything about sub numbers. Which is why I find it puzzling that people keep making assertions about them. Edited January 31, 2012 by SamuraBob_Fl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikelGoff Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Casuals use arguments (this is a real example) such as "I paid for a 6 months subscription because I don't have that much time to play, so now I can just play whenever I can without having to worry about renewing" In fact, the more you play, the more value you get for those 15$ bucks. Also, the more you play, the more glaring the flaws of this game becomes. That's why hardcore MMO players know more than your girlfriend and your sister. Hardcore gamers also base their judgment on things that the average gamer won't. I don't want my entire game decided by hardcores. I hate having my gameplay dictated by 10% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikelGoff Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I say it every time. My basis of "failed" is on the fact that 8/10 friends who i started playing this game with all quit. And I myself, just hit unsubscribe today. 5 bugs in 1 minute for the last time, that gets me killed and puts me on the other side of the map wasting like 15 minutes of my time. So why are you here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berrett Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 And another thing all you guys are naysayers and like I said if your unhappy with the game just leave, don't troll the forums don't make a big production about how it's *********** failing blah blah blah because that's what bioware hears is blah blah blah rabble rabble rabble... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDemens Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Casuals are people who think playing a few hours a week is value for a 15$ per month subscription. Let's say I play 4 hours a week, 4 weeks in a month. (The numbers are low, I play much more than that.) $15 / 16 hours = ~$0.94 / hour. I can't go to the movies for that. My cable and Internet bills are higher than that. Heck, I can't even buy and read a book for less than that. Sounds to me like it IS value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansultares Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Yeah, we don't know anything about sub numbers. Which is why I find it puzzling that people keep making assertions about them.That's just it; we don't know anything about sub numbers, which is indicative that they're worse than expected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamuraBob_Fl Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 That's just it; we don't know anything about sub numbers, which is indicative that they're worse than expected. It's not indicative of anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExBrillig Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Hardcore gamers also base their judgment on things that the average gamer won't. I don't want my entire game decided by hardcores. I hate having my gameplay dictated by 10% Also, hardcore players will never be the target audience of a story-based MMO. Since I'm loving me some story-based MMO, I'm hoping that Bioware continues what they're doing (which will tick off the hardcores). So far, so good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oseaswe Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 If you knew anything about statistics you'd know that you don't get reliable data from self-selected samples like forums at all. That's like trying to gauge the political views of the American public by reading comment threads on Foxnews.com. The whole intuition v. hard facts thing? Yeah, I understand that. I'm just amazed that people don't find it immediately obvious that your better off admitting that's a terrible way to make predictions. Yeah, we don't know anything about sub numbers. Which is why I find it puzzling that people keep making assertions about them. People keep making assertions because, just like stocks, no one wants to bet on a loser or invest time and money in a sinking ship. I think all of us here are biased in some way. I know I am biased. I want this game to fail for one simple reason: I don't believe in the P2P model. It's outdated and is being replaced all too often by the more popular F2P model. I don't like being forced to pay per month for a game, I prefer the idea of "donations" instead. If I really love a game I will support the developers by microtransactions. I don't want this game to fail just because I hate it. I like it but not enough to warrant a subscription. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikelGoff Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 That's just it; we don't know anything about sub numbers, which is indicative that they're worse than expected. That's just stinkin' thinkin! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toonasty Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 You have corrupted windows. How is that biowares fault? lol you again. Intresting:rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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