It's a here-now analysis, I can't evaluate future content because it doesn't exist. It's hard to speculate the price and content of an expansion pack. But I agree with you, factor in expansion packs and you have additional costs.

Yes they can but they don't get value for their money because the competition is more established, does everything SWTOR does (with an exception of the unique crafting system) but better. You really get more value for your money by playing WoW or some other game. I'm not even a WoW fanboy, never played it, always hated it. But they have had 8 years on the competition and they got most content available on the market.

I agree, EA could probably charge 100$ per month in subs and some people would still perceive it as value. It's subjective, I agree, which is why I wrote it from an objective point of view. The average person won't have family and friends scattered across the world. Your situation is uncommon.

Pros 1. My analysis is more of a here-now scenario. If you subscribe in the present and you've passed the core content there is little reason to subscribe unless you are in the third category: a SW fan. You can't do a value-analysis on future content, that is to say, content that does not yet exist. It's a natural limitation and I already mentioned it. 2. I don't understand what you mean by movies cost gas. The assumption used is ceteris paribus, all other things equal. I assume these 4 RPGs are of similar quality and are enjoyed as much as TOR by the player. 3. I disagree, I've put more than 90 hours into this game in less than a month and I haven't burned out yet. The more time you spend with someone you enjoy the more sensitized you become to the stimulus. It's fundamental operational psychology. The burn-out effect assumes a pattern of increasing input of stimuli. But just because you play less doesn't mean you automatically get more value for your money. This would only apply to games that don't become more costly over time. SWTOR becomes more costly over time if you only enjoy it for its core content and not its replay value. The more time you spend trying to hit that end content the more you end up paying. There is no real advantage in not playing as you suggest with the casuals. They lose money the less they play.

Value = hours played but not burned out. I have about 94 hours put in SWTOR and I don't feel burned out. I still like it and I would continue to play if my free month wasn't about to expire. My point is that if a game offers 40 hours and all those hours are fun then it's more valuable than a game that only offers 10. The burn-out effect is assumed and controlled for in my analysis.

Some games offer infinite value of entertainment, LoL or DotA being good examples. My point is that in order to get to the same amount of hours, one would have to play 4 other RPG games.

I don't think it invaldates the thread. Because once you've experienced that core content (80%) then you're basically paying per month for an inferior game compared to the competition. At that point, only Star-Wars fans receive value for their money. I think that is a strong point.

Thanks to those who read it. I know it was long but I feel it's worth it. for example, you can check the value of your time by averaging the time you spend each month on the game. Once you find that, just see how many cents per hour you pay to play (refer to section II)

Sure: there is no reason to subscribe to this game in the long run. That pretty much sums it up.

TLDR it then. I summarized it neatly for you in the end

Inspired by my earlier thread today about subs, I decided to create this thread with the intent to answer the question “when do I get value for my money by playing TOR?” The question of value is subjective, we define it differently. My goal is to try to be as unbiased and objective as possible. Table of contents Preamble: Unrelated Rant I. The cost of “touring” the game II. Cost per hour and tiers of use III. The cost of subscribing and replay value IV. Conclusion TL: DR Preamble: rant This is a somewhat related rant about fan boys and their defense force. You can skip to part I at this point should you wish. I’d like to bring up an historic example of how fan boys recycle their arguments. Anyone here probably remembers the ill-fated PS3 launch back a couple of years ago. Sony decided to launch their system at least 6 months after Microsoft and at a hefty cost. At the time the PS3 launched, it cost around 600 dollars, 200 dollars more than its direct competitor, the 360. Despite the controversial price point, the fact that were really no notable games at launch and sometime thereafter, Sony boldly suggested people should work double shifts to afford it. Sony fan boys (hereinafter Sony Defense Force, or SDF) swallowed it and argued that people who criticized the price point were cheap and should get a job. Ignoring the blatant fact that most people didn’t perceive any value at launch because of the hefty price point with no notable games. Drawing a similar parallel to SWTOR, fan boys here also argue that people should get a job if they can’t afford a 15 dollar subscription per month. How about people CAN afford it, they just don’t think they should pay for content that isn’t there? Or they feel the current content does not justifies a subscription. Either way, most people except the most die-hard SDF members would probably concede to the point that the PS3 was overpriced at launch. Perhaps in time, people will begin to see that SWTOR was not worth the subscription at launch. I. The cost of “touring” the game It’s no secret SWTOR is a story-driven game with a robust single-player element. Many people who eagerly anticipated KOTOR III decided to try out SWTOR just for the single-player experience. So how much does it really cost to just “tour” the core content of the game? My free month ends in just 4 days and I have invested about 4 days of playtime. I am lev 37 and I’m on the second chapter. I have done many heroics and some flashpoints. I have skipped most space missions but done virtually all bonus missions and side quests. Most people would agree it takes about 100 hours to hit lev 40 (max class level), to finish the main class storyline, and to do a majority of optional missions. There are 8 individual classes with individual storylines however, unique content is limited to two factions and thus two classes. That means once you finish one class for one faction, the majority of content is recycled and shared. That is, side quests and flashpoints are the same. If you wanted to experience the core content of SWTOR, you would only need two play one character on each faction before you hit shared content. Assuming again, it takes about 100 hours to finish the main story plus side quests, that’s roughly 200 hours of total and UNIQUE content. If you do this, you will have experienced roughly 80 % of all content in SWTOR. Assuming you finish around 100 hours worth of content per month, it would cost you roughly 60$ plus 15$ to “tour” a majority SWTOR’s content. That’s 200 hours worth of entertainment for 75$. Take a quality RPG like Fallout 3 which I finished in roughly 50 hours (most side quests, achievements, and main story), that’s 60 dollars new. In order to get an equal amount of content, you would have to buy about 4, 60$ RPG games with an average of 50 hours of core content per game. Since we’re comparing single-player aspect of RPG’s, SWTOR offers bonus multiplayer value which most comparable RPG’s do not. SWTOR offers roughly 200 hours of core entertainment for 75$ The same amount of hours would cost you 240 dollars if split between 4 RPG games with an average of 50 hours of core content per game. Conclusion: touring the game for two months gives an average person value. II. Cost per hour and tiers of use Before we analyze the cost per hour, we need to distinguish between tiers of use. I believe there are 4 tiers of use, that is to say, 4 consumer groups 1. Casuals (Max 5 hours per week) 2. Weekend Players (9 hours total per week, 3 hours Friday, Saturday, and Sunday on average) 3. Core players (3 hours per day on average, total of roughly 21-25 hours per week) 4. Hardcore players (30 or more hours per week). Assuming every player uses a 15 dollar per month subscription plan it breaks down as follows: Casuals: 20 hours total per month = 75 cents per hour Weekend players: 36 hours total per month = 41 cents per hour Core: 84 hours total per month = 17 cents per hour Hardcore: 120 hours per month (or more) = 12 cents per hour Obviously, the more you play, the more value you get per hour (viz, the less you pay per hour). The risk of playing more than 120 hours per month is you get more burned out easily. The difference between a core user and a hardcore user is not much in terms of value per hour. Only a 6 cent difference. However the difference between a core user and a weekend player is a 25 cent difference. Even worse with a casual player where the difference is a stunning 58 cent difference per hour. Assume a casual player plays about 5 hours per week for 20 total per month. It would take a casual player 10 months to finish the core content of SWTOR as we discussed previously. The first month is free so it would take 9 paid months to finish SWTOR’s core content. That’s 135 dollars plus 60 for a casual player to reach 200 hours = total 195$. It’s still “worth” it since 4 individual games with the same hours of core content would cost the same player 240 dollars. However, there is much less value compared to a core user. Conclusion: playing about 84 hours per month (or 21 hours per week) gives the best value for your money (with the burn-out effect accounted for). III. To cost of subscribing. Okay guys, here it is, the big one. The big question: is SWTOR worth subbing for in the long run? We can pretty much agree that to just tour the game gives value for the money (assuming you don’t burn out). However, once you finish the core content, the game is running on steam which is its replay value in form of end-game content, PVP, etc. I’m going to break it down in 3 scenarios. Worst case, average case, best case. Assume a player pays for monthly recurring subscription of 15$ per month. Worst case scenario: SWTOR lasts for 12 months until it becomes F2P or otherwise shuts down. You will have spent 180 dollars on subscriptions. Or equal to: 3 new videogames (60 dollars each) 9 visits to the movie theater with concessions (20 dollars) 2 visits to a classy restaurant for you and your girlfriend (90 dollars per visit) Average case: SWOTOR lasts for about 4 years. You will have spent 180x4 = 720 dollars on subscriptions Or equal to A next-gen video game system plus a few games 12 new videogames priced at 60 dollars each A romantic getaway weekend with your girlfriend at a hotel, dinners and excursions included Best case scenario. SWTOR becomes a WOW-killer and runs for 8 years. You will have paid 1440 dollars on subscriptions total. Equal to: A new mid-end performance laptop An entire new video game system with a complete library of next-gen must-play games The latest technology of anything (except laptops) A 5-day cruise for you and your girlfriend Fanboys say 15 dollars per month is cheaper than buying a brand new videogame and going to the movies. This is true, but if you were going to do these things ANYWAY, then you’re really losing money and thus no value. Most people will go to the movies, go out and eat, and buy new video games. Is it really worth spending upwards of 1440 dollars on one videogame in addition to other monthly expenses? Of course if you’re very choosy and one-sided about how you spend your time, I have no doubt you’re getting premium value for your money. If you choose between paying for an MMO like TOR or going out and doing other things then you obviously get more value for your money if all you ever do is sit inside and play an MMO. For example: Cost of TOR per hour 17 cents if played for 84 hours per month Cost of going to the movies per hour: about 10 dollars Most people will still want to go out and do other things than just play one game forever so let’s continue. Category 1: If you are new to MMO’s but want to do more than just tour the core content your money is better spent on an established game that has more content to offer for less such as WoW. WoW, for example, is free up to lev 20, the box cost is less than 20 which includes expansion packs. WoW has more end-game content, and is generally more bug free than SWTOR. Category 2: If you are an MMO veteran your money is still better spent on an established game such as WoW unless of course you’re already burned out on WoW (and everything else out there on the market). Category 3: If you are an MMO veteran (or newbie) who also happens to be a huge star wars fan (more than any other sci-fi/fantasy universe out there). Now this is where you will get most value for your subscription. If the Star Wars theme is a must for you then there is simply no other game out there that has the Star Wars license and is an MMO of the same quality as TOR. This value analysis is based on the current state of the game which is full of bugs and lacks any convincing late game content (everyone complains about Illium for example). Should this fact change and SWTOR reinvents the wheel then the aforementioned categories will change. IV. Conclusion: TL: DR 1. If you just want to tour the core content and experience the single player then you will get at least 200 hours worth of entertainment for less than 80 bucks. This is a matter of fact, value for your money compared to other RPG games out there (assuming you like the story). 2. In order to get the most value per hour, you need to play about 84 hours per month. If you only play 5 hours or less per month you don’t get much value (burn-out effect assumed). 3. If you want to subscribe to the game you will spend between 180 to 1440 dollars during its tenure. With the current state of the game, only die-hard Star Wars fans will benefit with a long-term subscription as there are better alternatives out there for those looking to anchor down with an MMO. Ending thoughts: If you want to troll me, get a mod to close down the thread in less than an hour. It took me over 2 hours to write this lol.

I understand a little bit more about connections and servers but it still ignores the fact that GW is free and is doing so well they made a sequel that's out soon. It reinforces my argument that a sub is not necessary to offset costs, but likely the most profitable for the company = rip off to the consumer.

You know exactly what I mean. If I don't pay per month, I can't play the game. Versus, I can play the game whenever and buy extra stuff at will.

That argument doesn't hold water because microtransactions support freemium games. You don't have to force anyone to pay a sub.

Elite is an optional "sub" You miss the point, BW/EA forces you to pay for a sub. Elite doesn't.