Bovinity Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Again, decent casters are doing it against terrible melee. If you are playing a melee who isn't absolutely terrible than it's not happening.I can run through your character 5 times by the time you get off a 2 second cast. Give me a break. And I can rotate even faster than you can run through me, so...5 times? Why would I care? If I couldn't rotate my toon 180 degrees in the time it takes you to move through me, I'd be pretty embarassed and deserve to lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWImara Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Give me a break. In WoW if you're a caster facing a melee, you aren't getting a spell with a cast time of that requires facing the targeting if the melee player isn't completely terrible. Nine times out of ten you can run through a player faster than he can cast. If it's so easy to simply turn your character and get casts off then why is there an issue with auto face? Its the illusion of skill and a recognition of twitch gaming as the only relevant ability in PvP. Some of my favorite PvP mechanically in an MMO was in WAR, the combat was relatively slow but could last quite a while and strategy mattered more than just about anything else. In AoC on the other hand we had all of these claims of the game being skill based etc but the problem was that all classes weren't the same, hit boxes weren't the same casters used a completely different system etc etc. Twitch as a measure of skill only works when all characters/avatars are equal, in MMOs they rarely if ever are. The only skills I've seen regularly involved in MMO PvP to date have been knowledge of your classknowledge of your opponentthe ability to coordinate with otherstactics ie use of terrain, enemy placement and positioningstrategy ie when to use X vs. Y power, when to use cooldowns etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griminal Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 And I can rotate even faster than you can run through me, so...5 times? Why would I care? If I couldn't rotate my toon 180 degrees in the time it takes you to move through me, I'd be pretty embarassed and deserve to lose. Ok so if it is as simple and brainless as you claim it to be, why is there even an issue with auto facing then? Are you going to try and pretend that someone who is so bad at the game is beating you because of auto facing? Give me a break, again. I hear a lot of whining in this thread and terrible terrible arguments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belecfaron Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 dude your missing the point, restrictions like this are bad.......you take away elements that allow people to excel...... now lets say you are fighting 2 people, both casters, one a healer and the other a tracer spammer.....by allowing the tracer spammer to auto face you cant interupt the healer's heals and juke the tracer spammer, u just get stuck eating his missles unless you get someone else to interupt him....when without this I could "attempt" to juke the tracers by running around the BH who should be adjusting to my movements. If you do not see how this makes pvp bland and boring and a complete downgrade from other MMO's then you are just in a bubble.... I see a 1v2 that I would not expect to win in any reasonable balanced game especially considering that one of them is a healer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterRilo Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 dude your missing the point, restrictions like this are bad.......you take away elements that allow people to excel...... now lets say you are fighting 2 people, both casters, one a healer and the other a tracer spammer.....by allowing the tracer spammer to auto face you cant interupt the healer's heals and juke the tracer spammer, u just get stuck eating his missles unless you get someone else to interupt him....when without this I could "attempt" to juke the tracers by running around the BH who should be adjusting to my movements. If you do not see how this makes pvp bland and boring and a complete downgrade from other MMO's then you are just in a bubble.... ...if you're up against a healer and a dmg dealer by yourself, assuming you are of equal skill they SHOULD easily beat you. Not sure why you're trying to argue something is unbalanced by using a 2 vs 1 scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegathegreat Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Ok so if it is as simple and brainless as you claim it to be, why is there even an issue with auto facing then? Are you going to try and pretend that someone who is so bad at the game is beating you because of auto facing? Give me a break, again. I hear a lot of whining in this thread and terrible terrible arguments. i clearly explained a situation up above where autofacing restircts the game insanely......auto facing gets rid of interupting bad players with movement while interupting healers and good players with your actual interupts.....if you do not understand this then HI to you bad player !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griminal Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 And I can rotate even faster than you can run through me, so...5 times? Why would I care? If I couldn't rotate my toon 180 degrees in the time it takes you to move through me, I'd be pretty embarassed and deserve to lose. Also, you can't predict enemy movement. Enemies can predict your casts as they can SEE your casts. Any smart melee will see you casting something, wait just before it's about to be cast and boom run through you, completely negating the so called easyness of turning with the mouse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bovinity Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) Ok so if it is as simple and brainless as you claim it to be, why is there even an issue with auto facing then? Because having the game do something for you in PvP is just another way of lowering an already pretty low skill cap. The entire reason melee would strafe around casters is to gain an upper hand via their superior multitasking abilities in their movement and ability usage versus someone who was much slower and couldn't handle turning and casting at the same time. Edit: Hell, its not even just meleee, I would even do it as a caster versus other casters. Are you going to try and pretend that someone who is so bad at the game is beating you because of auto facing? Uh, no. Like I said, I play a Mercenary. And like I said before, while it's funny to be able to just sit there eating a sandwich and pressing keys because I don't even have to pay attention to where I'm facing half the time, it's not a good system overall. Edited January 30, 2012 by Bovinity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunsu Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Again the casual gamer is paying the bill and that's who they are catering to. You are not going to find the wowlike pvp you are used to in newer mmos. Those days are gone, get used to autofacing and soon to come autocombos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illwill- Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 This game is WAAAAY too laggy to remove autoface. I punt people the "wrong" direction 10 times out of 10 because the game never tells me where people actually are. I root people in fire 8 times out 10 (the other 2 get ability lag) and they take damage 0 times out of 10 because where they actually are is nowhere close to where the pos game tells me they are. Want to know what I think about this game and correct information? http://img545.imageshack.us/img545/4589/cantsee2.jpg There, that's Swtor. If you imagine the picture is constant, then you can pretend it's Ilum (1-5 fps is almost the same as a still picture). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griminal Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Because having the game do something for you in PvP is just another way of lowering an already pretty low skill cap. The entire reason melee would strafe around casters is to gain an upper hand via their superior multitasking abilities in their movement and ability usage versus someone who was much slower and couldn't handle turning and casting at the same time. Uh, no. Like I said, I play a Mercenary. And like I said before, while it's funny to be able to just sit there eating a sandwich and pressing keys because I don't even have to pay attention to where I'm facing half the time, it's not a good system overall. You just said any decent player can negate this. Now you are saying it's a crucial ability for melee? You don't even know what your argument is lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Illwill- Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Also, you can't predict enemy movement. Enemies can predict your casts as they can SEE your casts. Any smart melee will see you casting something, wait just before it's about to be cast and boom run through you, completely negating the so called easyness of turning with the mouse. Yeah...that doesn't work in Swtor either. You see the cast, you use your interrupt and 5 seconds later it hits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lerdoc Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Someone told OP that he confused tracking with autofacing? Autofacing is in pve only... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stealthsultan Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) ...if you're up against a healer and a dmg dealer by yourself, assuming you are of equal skill they SHOULD easily beat you. Not sure why you're trying to argue something is unbalanced by using a 2 vs 1 scenario. You could not have missed his point more: reread his post. In addition: facing your target as a caster in regards to getting the cast off is not all of the issue. Autoface has a brutal effect on classes the depend on backstab. In competition level mmo pvp (wow is the only example, get over it) rogues like woundman and reckful are getting off backstabs on people who are not stunned. This is not possible vs a chain casting target in the current gamestate. Autofacing is not pve only...where did you get that idea? Edited January 30, 2012 by Stealthsultan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordbishopX Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) Oh! It's a WoW thing. I was wondering why people were jumping around me like headless chickens. Worse thing ever circle fighting was and always will be the worse mechanic in gaming just tendinitis waiting to happen for ppl using a mouse I hope they never change to allow running circle = advantage its bleeep. Stun move behind backstab worked in wow works here seriously the other just run around in circle is garbage. Edited January 30, 2012 by LordbishopX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lerdoc Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 soon to come autocombos. Thats already in Aion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bovinity Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 You just said any decent player can negate this. Now you are saying it's a crucial ability for melee? You don't even know what your argument is lol That's not even remotely what I said. Did I say it was "crucial" for melee? No, I said it's something a good melee can do to gain the upper hand on slower players. And yes, a decent player can negate it. Imagine that, two good players using their skills against one another and coming up with an even fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dudious Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Warzone lag must be resolved before they make such a significant game mechanic change. If not, there is potential abuse of lag to make it much more difficult than it should be I know where a melter character is in relation to ur own. In short, I agree that auto face decreases skill cap, but currently Warzone lag is too bad o allow this theoretical skill to even come into play. This. The communication between WoW servers and clients, for whatever reason, was much more efficient/effective (whatever) and it resulted in much more accurate representations of enemy players. You can't expect casters to be able to spin correctly to face targets by themselves in this game when they can't even see where that target really is. I'm all for turning off the auto-facing when the characters on my screen are actually where my client thinks they are (or close enough). /Thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirGusto Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 The only pple that defend auto facing are the ones that love it to much to use there mouse. The fact remains that ranged have it, and melee doesnt. If your weilding a big gun irl, you cant turn as fast, thats why smaller close quarters weapons were invented. So, why should any range be able to spin on a dime if a melee is in melee range. It doesn't make sence in any world, even a video game. Keep enjoying the easy aim, but unless they give it to everyone, its just not right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vegathegreat Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 ok put yourself in my shoes, im going to explain this from my perspective and how most good players would look at this scenario...... enemy healer is standing near pillar for LOS....i jump on enemy healer and snare, tracer spammer next to healer turns to me to protect healer....i interupt healer and drop some focus to do some damage, tracer spammer gets one attack off so i now LOS behind pillar, spammer re-adjusts, healer trys to heal again so i use another interupt on healer....spammers starts to cast, due to healers location the pillar is no longer an option, and no interupts available, normally this is where you juke the cast, but no in this game the god awful noob gets to just spam a button while eating chips and doesnt even have to adjust to my movements...... how can u possibly ever want this.........? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bovinity Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 The communication between WoW servers and clients, for whatever reason, was much more efficient/effective (whatever) and it resulted in much more accurate representations of enemy players. You can't expect casters to be able to spin correctly to face targets by themselves in this game when they can't even see where that target really is. I'm all for turning off the auto-facing when the characters on my screen are actually where my client thinks they are (or close enough). I'll agree with this part. WoW actually wasn't very good about it either, but swtor manages to be even worse with syncing and such. AoC is the only MMO I've seen with really good player position syncing. =/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dzhokhar Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Removing autofacing wouldn't "increase the amount of skill involved in PvP". It would give bad melee players a cheap trick to use against ranged classes. Maybe you should learn to use your interrupts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordbishopX Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Reads please let me have easy kills by running in circles aren't I skilled with my controller.... NOT... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelticfury Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 What I think is funny is how you get these genius players who don't seem to get it and strafe side to side like they are having a seizure. I bet when they suddenly find themselves in the respawn they are like wth!?!?!? I was juking and jiving like a CHAMP! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bovinity Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 So basically what it seems like most of the people in this thread want is a game where we all just stand there in PvP and spam our PvE rotations because movement becomes increasingly meaningless, interrupts might as well not even exist for the most part, and all people do with CC is whine about how it shouldn't exist. Sometimes I'm embarassed to play MMO's. Should just stick to FPS games for my competitive fulfillment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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