AcaciaDragon Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Don't be silly, if the multiple enemies coordinate their CC and knockbacks marauders can never get to the target, clearly we're broken. If multiple enemies are cooridnating against you, you are already dead. we can hold our own against 2 other classes at most, anymore than that and we are just biding our time till we are dead. Stop claiming we are broken when you want to take out an entire ops team by yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AcaciaDragon Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) Edited. Edited January 31, 2012 by AcaciaDragon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayc Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) If multiple enemies are cooridnating against you, you are already dead. we can hold our own against 2 other classes at most, anymore than that and we are just biding our time till we are dead. Stop claiming we are broken when you want to take out an entire ops team by yourself. edit:i'll wait for you to finish editing your post. Edited January 31, 2012 by Sayc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyAl Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 If multiple enemies are cooridnating against you, you are already dead. we can hold our own against 2 other classes at most, anymore than that and we are just biding our time till we are dead. Stop claiming we are broken when you want to take out an entire ops team by yourself. he was being sarcastic, even i got that and im usually pretty slow on the internet sarcasm front:D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AcaciaDragon Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Missed the sarcasm, read the last comment and took it the wrong way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoseman Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 hi guys im in full battlemaster gear, and i finally feel like im useful, i no longer get cc'd to death, and i now hit with chopsticks instead of wet noodles. Weeks of grinding and now im finally able to compete with everyone.... Were BALANCED! /sarcasm Broken or not, mara's are weak in comparison to every other class. That is not balance. If i need to take training courses and spend COUNTLESS hours attempting to learn my class, that is not balance. Keep riding that l2p into the ground... it will butcher this class and eventually the game. I would like to see some constructive and BALANCED criticm for once, all i hear are the same people using the same argument "Class is fine you just suck". And people please. don't assume the class does fine damage until hard numbers and statistics are released. I have a slight incling that bioware does not want to release damage meters for fear of backlash once these numbers come out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hizoka Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 hi guys im in full battlemaster gear, and i finally feel like im useful, i no longer get cc'd to death, and i now hit with chopsticks instead of wet noodles. Weeks of grinding and now im finally able to compete with everyone.... Were BALANCED! /sarcasm Broken or not, mara's are weak in comparison to every other class. That is not balance. If i need to take training courses and spend COUNTLESS hours attempting to learn my class, that is not balance. Keep riding that l2p into the ground... it will butcher this class and eventually the game. I would like to see some constructive and BALANCED criticm for once, all i hear are the same people using the same argument "Class is fine you just suck". And people please. don't assume the class does fine damage until hard numbers and statistics are released. I have a slight incling that bioware does not want to release damage meters for fear of backlash once these numbers come out. it doesn't matter how many times you post up lies and other garbage its never gonna be true. This class performs only as well as the person at the keyboard can play it. If you think it sucks it is a direct representation of the person playing it, the class is not broken, it just has way too many bad players playing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoseman Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 it doesn't matter how many times you post up lies and other garbage its never gonna be true. This class performs only as well as the person at the keyboard can play it. If you think it sucks it is a direct representation of the person playing it, the class is not broken, it just has way too many bad players playing it. lies? do you even play this game? You keep repeating the same broken tune, i don't think 80% of this community is drop dead retarded, and cant play this class, i think all the concerns brought to these forums should be addressed in an intelligent and logical manner. Im more frustrated with the lack of forethought and outside the box thinking that YOU and others seem to demonstrate, you are in this terrible train of thought called "denial" and refuse to see anyone else's point of view but your own. I don't know who you are, you might be Pro status MLG and know exactly what your doing All the time. You might be group queuing in warzones and not see that the solo queue is clearly suffering. whatever it is get off your high horse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VandredTOR Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I'm only level 33 now and anni spec, but let's see... - Because at level 25ish, I started leading warzones in damage, kills, killing blows and solo kills. - Because at level 25ish, I started breaking 200k+ damage...didn't happen until 45+ with rage spec on my juggernaut. - Because I finish warzones with 30-50% more damage than other marauders/sentinels, regardless of what level they are. (in my bracket) - Because I've beaten every marauder/sentinel I've faced 1 on 1, regardless of level. (beaten many 40+, even in my late 20s). I hardly notice any of them using their cooldowns in the process...saber ward is about the most consistent. - Because I can count the number of times on 1 hand I've lost a straight up 1 on 1 fight with any class at any level. (in my bracket) - Because the bad players who rolled Sorcs/Sages/Troopers/BHs, who literally don't know what to do when I interrupt their force lightning/telekenetic throw/grav round/tracer missile, used to play marauders I am sure. I hate to be a "L2P" person, but I think that is a huge part of the issues. I will 100% agree that this is not an easy class to play...the ranged classes really are easy mode comparatively speaking, but that does not make the marauder totally incapable...you just have to work harder. My "cooldowns" are always on cooldown, because I constantly use them. Obviously I don't use them in downtime...but if I am fighting, they are getting used most likely. (unless it's an obvious face roll against someone). I have shelved my rank 58 juggernaut basically to play my marauder. It just feels better...and I kill so much better. While I am more squishy, with just force camo right now I feel like I can survive better than my DPS jugg. There are some tweaks and fixes that could take place. The ability misfire HAS TO GET FIXED BIOWARE. It's ridiculous and unacceptable. A few things I think could be done... - 6 seconds on force camo - make obsfucate work against sorcs/sages better - saber ward to 2 minutes on the cooldown - force push with leap reset like jugg would be freakin awesome - introduce minimum range on some of the ranged class's abilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AcaciaDragon Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 lies? do you even play this game? You keep repeating the same broken tune, i don't think 80% of this community is drop dead retarded, and cant play this class, i think all the concerns brought to these forums should be addressed in an intelligent and logical manner. Im more frustrated with the lack of forethought and outside the box thinking that YOU and others seem to demonstrate, you are in this terrible train of thought called "denial" and refuse to see anyone else's point of view but your own. I don't know who you are, you might be Pro status MLG and know exactly what your doing All the time. You might be group queuing in warzones and not see that the solo queue is clearly suffering. whatever it is get off your high horse. the "80%" of this community in these forums dont know how to play this class so they come here to complain. Go ahead, look at the threads right now. Half of them are people complaining they arent good enough and blame it on the class rather than admit there own shortcomings. Every single one of them can be explained by any player who knows this class. You fall into this group. Take the time to learn the class, REALLY learn it. It is very rewarding if you do, and if you can't cut it, then this class isn't for you. Its one of the more difficult ones to master, BW admits it. I have yet to see a good thread explaining why we are so gimped. Every single one of them comes back to the same thing, Lack of knowledge and experience using the class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoseman Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 the "80%" of this community in these forums dont know how to play this class so they come here to complain. Go ahead, look at the threads right now. Half of them are people complaining they arent good enough and blame it on the class rather than admit there own shortcomings. Every single one of them can be explained by any player who knows this class. You fall into this group. Take the time to learn the class, REALLY learn it. It is very rewarding if you do, and if you can't cut it, then this class isn't for you. Its one of the more difficult ones to master, BW admits it. I have yet to see a good thread explaining why we are so gimped. Every single one of them comes back to the same thing, Lack of knowledge and experience using the class. Ive read alot of the complaints. while i do agree some are ilfounded and i think are due in fact to lack of knowledge, Alot of the complaints hold weight. When you say every single one of them comes back to the same thing, its the same few people arguing the same things "L2P" and are not actually giving constructive feedback, why?, because there is none, there are clear and present flaws in the class, i wont go as far as saying its broken as i love my marauder, and will continue playing, but to say its fine and its only the player at fault when attributing issues is plain, to be blunt, retarded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warlordomega Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Don't be silly, if the multiple enemies coordinate their CC and knockbacks marauders can never get to the target, clearly we're broken. this made me lmfaorofl... like i stated b4 if any class gets targeted by 5 ppl at once your going to die... if you want tos urvive that and win? mmo's are not the game for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayc Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 this made me lmfaorofl... like i stated b4 if any class gets targeted by 5 ppl at once your going to die... if you want tos urvive that and win? mmo's are not the game for you Oh god how many times do I have to go through this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AcaciaDragon Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Ive read alot of the complaints. while i do agree some are ilfounded and i think are due in fact to lack of knowledge, Alot of the complaints hold weight. When you say every single one of them comes back to the same thing, its the same few people arguing the same things "L2P" and are not actually giving constructive feedback, why?, because there is none, there are clear and present flaws in the class, i wont go as far as saying its broken as i love my marauder, and will continue playing, but to say its fine and its only the player at fault when attributing issues is plain, to be blunt, retarded. There is lots of constructive feedback hidden under layers sarcasm. Its there, its important to not take things personally on these forums. Most people Say L2P because they will not tell you exactly how to play your class. Everyone needs to learn that for themselves, the saying goes, Give a man a Fish he will eat for a Day, Teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime. Read the guide its a great start and if you cant take it further and make this class your own without someone holding your hand, then your SOL. Ultimately its how you play. I see so many people on this forum alone with vastly different specs each able to hold his own and boast big numbers with proof, you know why? not because of gear, but because they know there ****. Each one brings there own perspective and experience,(and personality) and knowing who to listen too is key. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AcaciaDragon Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Oh god how many times do I have to go through this I dont feel so bad anymore... insert Sarcasm tags! wihtout reading the last few complete pages the sarcasm was lost.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasymodeX Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) While I agree that the bottom line is "l2p", players at the low end do have legitimate issues. Marauders perform exceptionally poorly for weak players based on the archetype (DPS, no range, no stealth). It's "unfair" for bad Marauders to get steamrolled by bad BH/Sorcs. However, the issue is core to melee DPS in general, and there is no easy fix. If you can't handle it, the best advice is really to just "GET GOOD" or reroll. Edit: I made a post in the Sentinel forums relevant to the topic of why "meh" Sent/Marauders perform "BAD": http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=249709&page=4 Edited January 31, 2012 by EasymodeX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoseman Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 There is lots of constructive feedback hidden under layers sarcasm. Its there, its important to not take things personally on these forums. Most people Say L2P because they will not tell you exactly how to play your class. Everyone needs to learn that for themselves, the saying goes, Give a man a Fish he will eat for a Day, Teach a man to fish and he will eat for a lifetime. Read the guide its a great start and if you cant take it further and make this class your own without someone holding your hand, then your SOL. Ultimately its how you play. I see so many people on this forum alone with vastly different specs each able to hold his own and boast big numbers with proof, you know why? not because of gear, but because they know there ****. Each one brings there own perspective and experience,(and personality) and knowing who to listen too is key. The problem is there is no guide on how not to be cc'd to death by a sorcerer, or how to mitigate tracerspamlol mercernaries from owning you in the face, show me the guide on how to dodge knockbacks, ill take that one easy, how to avoid back to back cc. How about a guide on why my damage is nothing compared to the other classes? This class IS NOT super hard to play. I dont know why this misconception is brewing, Yes its harder than the other classes, but its not, forgive me from refrencing WoW, DK's early wrath before macro mashing. Most of the big issues are attributed to being too damn squishy for a non stealth melee class. I dont think its too much to ask to have bioware look into this themselves is it? If they feel our concerns are unwarranted they would have told us so in a post like they've done in so many other threads. Hell theyve already stated they're going to be implementing some "ease of life" fixes, and DPS Bug fixes as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hizoka Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 While I agree that the bottom line is "l2p", players at the low end do have legitimate issues. Marauders perform exceptionally poorly for weak players based on the archetype (DPS, no range, no stealth). It's "unfair" for bad Marauders to get steamrolled by bad BH/Sorcs. However, the issue is core to melee DPS in general, and there is no easy fix. If you can't handle it, the best advice is really to just "GET GOOD" or reroll. Edit: I made a post in the Sentinel forums relevant to the topic of why "meh" Sent/Marauders perform "BAD": http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=249709&page=4 not every class needs to be "******* simple" there NEEDS to be a class for the skilled gamer. Marauders provide a complex class that will out perform any other class with a properly skilled player. If you are not that type of play the class is not for, go play a merc DPS and hit tracer missile all the time and feel skilled. There is no issue on these forums regarding the short comings of this class that are not just a poor player issue. In raids i easily do more damage (as proven with a 10 second lead on council kills) i provide more utility then the rest of the raid (blinding the Forman in Kragga during frenzy so the tank takes 0 damage, locking down the healer "bodyguard" so he has 0 effect on the fight) Marauders are the single most powerful class in a raid setting for their utility, they are equally as good in a group PvP situation when you use all those tools to help your team. No class is a "rambo" and can win in PvP by themselves. The BIGGEST problem is people forget this is a MULTI player game, if you never works as a team them every class is terrible, but when you work together you see how strong each class can be. I have leveled many classes in live and in beta, none of them match the damage of marauder, hell most do not have teh same survivability even with heavy armor. The Rage system is the best resource of all the classes because you can never run out and have to wait for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoseman Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 bah... I give up. Its the same thing over and over. Learn to play noobs don't voice your concerns just reroll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AcaciaDragon Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) The problem is there is no guide on how not to be cc'd to death by a sorcerer, or how to mitigate tracerspamlol mercernaries from owning you in the face, show me the guide on how to dodge knockbacks, ill take that one easy, how to avoid back to back cc. Someone cant just explain it to you. You have to figure that out for yourself, If i were to explain it, the post would become as long as the guide explaining all the situations that event can fall under. How about a guide on why my damage is nothing compared to the other classes? You dont know this or can prove it without combat logs, This works the same way for us on what you considered the "elitist" side, we cant prove we can give big numbers, so unless you are actively trying get better(like the rest of us did who had more time to grind), your only other option is to come here and complain. This class IS NOT super hard to play. I dont know why this misconception is brewing, Yes its harder than the other classes, but its not, forgive me from refrencing WoW, DK's early wrath before macro mashing. Most of the big issues are attributed to being too damn squishy for a non stealth melee class. Yet you are here complaining you are broken, we are going in circles here. I dont think its too much to ask to have bioware look into this themselves is it? If they feel our concerns are unwarranted they would have told us so in a post like they've done in so many other threads. Hell theyve already stated they're going to be implementing some "ease of life" fixes, and DPS Bug fixes as well. They already are. I wish i could find the post by one of the developers, they said that concerning marauders(they were discussing future plans with all classes), they feel they are right where they need to be in terms of utility and damage and they want to give it more time for more players to get up to the level of End game and pvp that a select few are at right now before making any changes. They did say they are looking into ways of making the leveling process easier. Edited January 31, 2012 by AcaciaDragon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warlordomega Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Oh god how many times do I have to go through this until the reasons behind why we suck are actualy viable not because u got ganked by 5 ppl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AcaciaDragon Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 until the reasons behind why we suck are actualy viable not because u got ganked by 5 ppl He was being sarcastic, I missed it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EasymodeX Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) The problem is there is no guide on how not to be cc'd to death by a sorcerer, or how to mitigate tracerspamlol mercernaries from owning you in the face, show me the guide on how to dodge knockbacks, ill take that one easy, how to avoid back to back cc. There is no guide because people are not asking for them. They are asking for general "HOW DO I NOT DIE". Mitigating knockbacks is subtle, and the specific approaches vary wildly with battle conditions. Sometimes it's best to simply accept the knockback and do something else. However, I'll list the high level notes on knockbacks: 1. First, learn the different KB distances. BHs, Snipers, and Juggs have long-range KBs. Sorcs, BHs (PT only?), and Assassins have short range knockbacks. 2. Knockbacks move you in the exact vector from where the KB cast started to your position. This includes the z-axis. Some KBs include a vertical component. If you are below your opponent at an angle (ramp at the acid pool), then the KB will knock you down sharply into the lower area. In other words, you will be knocked back 3 feet even by a strong knockback. Conversely, the typical instinct on a ramp is for a player to stand on the high ground. This is dangerous: the high ground means that the knockback is "aimed" upwards, giving it a high arc. You will be knocked back much further in many cases (unless the KB has a REALLY low vertical component). Suppress your instinct and play better. 3. Max melee range, where necessary. This means you joust in every 1.5 seconds to use abilities. This works in tandem with #2 -- if you are at the very bottom of a ramp, and they use a knockback on you, you will be knocked back ... 1 foot. 4. Put your back to a wall. Or a narrow strip of collision object. On the catwalk above the huttball, there are 4 pillars, two at each fire pit, a bunch of sandbags in the middle, and 2 large crate/box/metalcontraptions, one at each end of the catwalk. That's 7 collision objects on the main catwalk. You can also put your back to a straight stretch of platform -- depending on how you intitiated the fight, you may be able to afford this easily (just charge back right?). 5. Plan ahead of time. If you do get knocked off whatever platform, what does it matter? Is it actually an advantage? Are there other high priority targets? Are you now LOSing the enemy, and maybe his 2-3 teammates? Did they launch you halfway to the heal buff? Which of these approachs are viable or effective depends entirely on the player's ability to observe the battlefield and realize where they want to be ... and where they don't want to be. not every class needs to be "******* simple" there NEEDS to be a class for the skilled gamer. I agree, but that does not mean that a bad player's bad experience is not a problem for BioWare. If BioWare can feasibly improve the "QUALITY OF LIFE" of the low-end of the skill spectrum without impacting the skilled players, then that's great. You need to accept that, as a practical matter, not all players are able to be skillful, whether for shortcomings of the brain, limited playtime, low interest/effort in the game, etc, and that these limitations are not something that they should be unduly penalized for. E.g.: it's already bad enough that they suck. They don't need to have a urinary biopsy on top of getting the **** kicked out of them. Edit: Oh, and the greatest inspiration I can give players to succeed at the Marauder class is this youtube video (AMV): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_IGACmlVmw Edited January 31, 2012 by EasymodeX Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iknoghostmagic Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 People who complain are just bad the amount of bad players in this game is almost unimaginable as an annihilation speced mara with proper cd management the only class i can really see losing to in 1v1 most of the time is a sorcerer or sage who knows how to correctly reset the fight and heal back to full Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warlordomega Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 People who complain are just bad the amount of bad players in this game is almost unimaginable as an annihilation speced mara with proper cd management the only class i can really see losing to in 1v1 most of the time is a sorcerer or sage who knows how to correctly reset the fight and heal back to full a sorc or sage? that is our easiest target... as anni my only issues are with ops from time to time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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