Ramonihil Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Ok so most marauders complain that we´re underpowered and some says the opposite. You who think that marauders are fine, what are you doing? Do you have full pvp gear? Are there some secret skill combination you use? Can someone explain WHY you think we´re not underpowered while the majority says we are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AcaciaDragon Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 To better answer your question, answer this one: How much time have you spend on an average day or week playing a marauder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramonihil Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share Posted January 30, 2012 A couple of hours a day. Some days I haven´t played at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stigas Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Here's the foodchain for the undergeared (Read: Not Champion/Battlemaster geared): Ranged > Healers > Melee Why, you ask? Melee are the easiest to pick off by the Ranged. Without gear, they're not going to kill Healers. Healers get focused fast by a lot of players, geared or not. They're slightly better off than Melee because they can Heal themselves and, depending on Class, escape. Ranged always have the advantage in the early part of the gear grind. They have more mobility, damage from Ranged and still have survival cooldowns. That's just the way it is. If you don't like it, reroll. There are plenty of guides for PvP in this forum. If you want to know what people are doing, read one of them, watch a Stream (I suggest Gluten-Free-Gaming, Level 74+ Marauder) and most of all, trial and error. There's no due date in MMO's. Just enjoy yourself and strive to always improve and you'll be geared and destroying people in no time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precurso Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Marauders are squishy, period. Even light armor wearers have some shield or buff to +150% armor and get way more dmg mitigation. Some have vanish, CC to control the fight. Some just have heavy armor with defensive stances. We have a 4 sec immunity on a long cooldown and a 20% dmg mitigation that lasts 6 seconds. On damage mitigation alone, Marauders are at the bottom.Simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AcaciaDragon Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 A couple of hours a day. Some days I haven´t played at all. This class is difficult to play and requires more time to learn than the others. We have so many abilities we actively have to use it can take time to get use to it,(or order a 17 button mouse to help out). I feel we are just fine but we need a few tweaks. This class requires a little more than the other classes but in the end, its worth it. This class is extremely fun to play when you learn how to pick your battles and what abilities work best in certain situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kricys Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Get some expertise. I can tank quite a few people for a while with cd's up. We are by far the hardest class to get a kill on simply because of undying rage, camo and predation. With set bonus undying rage is 45 sec, same as camo. Predation is almost always available.Currently 17+k health in pvp gear, 12% from expertise, 7% reduction from spec/form.Especially in hutball theres so many places to drop down or los in people just won't find you after you vanish and book away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stigas Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Marauders are squishy, period. Even light armor wearers have some shield or buff to +150% armor and get way more dmg mitigation. Some have vanish, CC to control the fight. Some just have heavy armor with defensive stances. We have a 4 sec immunity on a long cooldown and a 20% dmg mitigation that lasts 6 seconds. On damage mitigation alone, Marauders are at the bottom. Simple as that. My CoP lasts wayyyyy longer than 6 seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kricys Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Marauders are squishy, period. Even light armor wearers have some shield or buff to +150% armor and get way more dmg mitigation. Some have vanish, CC to control the fight. Some just have heavy armor with defensive stances. We have a 4 sec immunity on a long cooldown and a 20% dmg mitigation that lasts 6 seconds. On damage mitigation alone, Marauders are at the bottom. Simple as that. The more I read your posts the more I realize you just don't know the class very well. 20% damage reduction would be cloak of pain, read the tooltip. It lasts 6 seconds if you don't get hit, it lasts 30 if you continuously get hit. A simple dot on you would keep it up. So yeah, lets go down the list. Saber ward 50% increased defenses and 25% red dmg from force/tech. Cloak 20% reduction for 30 seconds Vanish on a 45 sec cd (somehow you consider 45 sec long on a cooldown this powerful) Undying rage 99% reduction on a 45 sec cd. Aoe fear, accuracy debuff, predation to get away, charge can even be used to get away from a pounding. What more could you need? We don't need more mitigation, we are already extremely strong as it is and all the class requires is some quality of life/animation/mechanics adjustments. Compared to a rage jugg, if they're getting teamed up on well, that's it. No healer on them = dead jugg. They might have higher mitigation through armor, we have escapes on very short cd's. Play better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramonihil Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share Posted January 30, 2012 Just wish we didn´t have so short buffs w/ long CD.For example: increase defense with 50% for 12sec and a 3 min cooldown.We need better defensive buffs ffs! Cloak of pain is alright as it is though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kricys Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Just wish we didn´t have so short buffs w/ long CD. For example: increase defense with 50% for 12sec and a 3 min cooldown. We need better defensive buffs ffs! Cloak of pain is alright as it is though... I suggest you look through all your abilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramonihil Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) *sigh* Instead of just saying l2p, check your abilities etc...just answer my question. Why do YOU feel we´re NOT underpowered when the majority of marauders do? I know we have a lot of awesome abilities but if they were enough then people wouldn´t be complaining right? Edited January 30, 2012 by Ramonihil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabbathius Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Ok so most marauders complain that we´re underpowered and some says the opposite. You who think that marauders are fine, what are you doing? Do you have full pvp gear? Are there some secret skill combination you use? Can someone explain WHY you think we´re not underpowered while the majority says we are? First off, you need to realize that 90% of everything you read on this forum is crap. Total crap. There's tons of misinformation, outright lies, etc., etc. Second, people in this game are pathetic at recognizing whether they're fighting someone who is skilled, or someone who doesn't know their rear end from a hole in the ground. Last night, there was a 49 Jugg in a WZ with me, and I repeatedly butchered him without dropping below 50% health. And my Marauder is in mid-30s right now. I could easily come to the forum and claim Maras are just fine. Except I realize with cold, dead certainty that he had absolutely no brains at all, he was one step removed from being AFK. But most people on this forum immediately assume they win because they're oh-so-awesomesauce and the class is just fine. Third, I find people who say Marauders are fine are also the guys running around with 600+ Expertise, usually with a pocket healer or a really good group. And honestly, ANY class is great in this scenario. I often see videos, and it is 50v50. But one (usually the guy doing the video) has 17k+ HP, and the guy being killed is often as low as 12k. I mean, it's hardly a contest. Teamwork also strongly impacts how you view the class. Just last night, I was doing PuG WZs. And one match, I had a decent team. That is, tank that actually taunted and shielded healer. Healer that actually healed, even healed me once or twice. And I felt like an unstoppable cuisinart of death playing my Marauder. It didn't really matter what class they were, I annihilated them. The very next match, my team was morons. And I'm only saying morons because the forum will edit out anything stronger. And I had a miserable time. Enemy team was coordinated. The moment I showed my face, it was melted off, usually from range. If I tried to attack anyone, I was quickly CCd and dropped like a bag of potatoes. I pop Force Camo, they pop Stealth Scan. I pop Cloak of Pain, they CC me for 6+ seconds, it falls off. Etc., etc. Absolutely miserable. Fourth, you have people who only PvE, and most of that is just doing quests. In that regard, I too feel Marauder is just fine. In fact, it's probably the fastest leveling class in the game, or possibly tied with a Sorcerer. Just something to keep in mind as you read the replies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stigas Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 *sigh* Instead of just saying l2p, check your abbilities etc...just answer my question. Why do YOU feel we´re NOT underpowered when the majority of marauders do? Who's this "majority"? I suspect they're undergeared and have never played a Warrior-archetype in an MMO before. Underpowered, overpowered... Two of the most overused terms in gaming. It's just silly to think that, without any gear, you should compete with/kill people who have put in significantly more time than you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramonihil Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share Posted January 30, 2012 This class is difficult to play and requires more time to learn than the others. Then it´s not very balanced imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zantezutske Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Who's this "majority"? I suspect they're undergeared and have never played a Warrior-archetype in an MMO before. Underpowered, overpowered... Two of the most overused terms in gaming. It's just silly to think that, without any gear, you should compete with/kill people who have put in significantly more time than you. This guy speaks the truth! should get sticked actually:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeeFiFoFum Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 It is very simple. Marauders got the shaft because it takes a long time and a lot of gear to have fun playing it. It is for this simple reason the class is not fun for most, therefore it does need love. My level now 15 powertech can smoke marauders 1v1 and dominate them in the wz's, unless in the 40's. I can also do wayyy more damage, get wayyy more medals and die wayyyy less. Try it, if you have a marauder make a BH and watch your frustration melt away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kricys Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) *sigh* Instead of just saying l2p, check your abilities etc...just answer my question. Why do YOU feel we´re NOT underpowered when the majority of marauders do? I know we have a lot of awesome abilities but if they were enough then people wouldn´t be complaining right? I answered everything already. The majority of mmo players are well... bad. Very bad. Instead of learning the class or practicing, getting better, they go on forums and blame the class instead of the dude behind the keyboard. No class is perfect, no class is finished, a year from now we'll prob have plenty of changes, good and bad. Every class has it's issues but we're in a better place than most. Marauders are downright scary when played right. The more I read your posts the more I realize you just don't know the class very well. 20% damage reduction would be cloak of pain, read the tooltip. It lasts 6 seconds if you don't get hit, it lasts 30 if you continuously get hit. A simple dot on you would keep it up. So yeah, lets go down the list. Saber ward 50% increased defenses and 25% red dmg from force/tech. Cloak 20% reduction for 30 seconds Vanish on a 45 sec cd (somehow you consider 45 sec long on a cooldown this powerful) Undying rage 99% reduction on a 45 sec cd. Aoe fear, accuracy debuff, predation to get away, charge can even be used to get away from a pounding. What more could you need? We don't need more mitigation, we are already extremely strong as it is and all the class requires is some quality of life/animation/mechanics adjustments. Compared to a rage jugg, if they're getting teamed up on well, that's it. No healer on them = dead jugg. They might have higher mitigation through armor, we have escapes on very short cd's. Play better. Edited January 30, 2012 by Kricys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramonihil Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share Posted January 30, 2012 Ok so once I´m pvp geared I will have a better chance is that what you´re saying?That the complainers are undergeared.When I was between 30-40 I could take out lvl50 warriors/guardian/BH quite easy in 1v1 but had a really hard time with lvl 16 sage/assassin/trooper etc(even though I used all my abilities, tried different rotations etc). Right now I don´t have any pvp gear but when I do and if they magicly change my survivability then I will also change my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaaine Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) First off, you need to realize that 90% of everything you read on this forum is crap. Total crap. There's tons of misinformation, outright lies, etc., etc. Second, people in this game are pathetic at recognizing whether they're fighting someone who is skilled, or someone who doesn't know their rear end from a hole in the ground. Last night, there was a 49 Jugg in a WZ with me, and I repeatedly butchered him without dropping below 50% health. And my Marauder is in mid-30s right now. I could easily come to the forum and claim Maras are just fine. Except I realize with cold, dead certainty that he had absolutely no brains at all, he was one step removed from being AFK. But most people on this forum immediately assume they win because they're oh-so-awesomesauce and the class is just fine. Third, I find people who say Marauders are fine are also the guys running around with 600+ Expertise, usually with a pocket healer or a really good group. And honestly, ANY class is great in this scenario. I often see videos, and it is 50v50. But one (usually the guy doing the video) has 17k+ HP, and the guy being killed is often as low as 12k. I mean, it's hardly a contest. Teamwork also strongly impacts how you view the class. Just last night, I was doing PuG WZs. And one match, I had a decent team. That is, tank that actually taunted and shielded healer. Healer that actually healed, even healed me once or twice. And I felt like an unstoppable cuisinart of death playing my Marauder. It didn't really matter what class they were, I annihilated them. The very next match, my team was morons. And I'm only saying morons because the forum will edit out anything stronger. And I had a miserable time. Enemy team was coordinated. The moment I showed my face, it was melted off, usually from range. If I tried to attack anyone, I was quickly CCd and dropped like a bag of potatoes. I pop Force Camo, they pop Stealth Scan. I pop Cloak of Pain, they CC me for 6+ seconds, it falls off. Etc., etc. Absolutely miserable. Fourth, you have people who only PvE, and most of that is just doing quests. In that regard, I too feel Marauder is just fine. In fact, it's probably the fastest leveling class in the game, or possibly tied with a Sorcerer. Just something to keep in mind as you read the replies. +1 I've played the Marauder for a Long time.... since BETA. Marauder in terms of DPS output is fine. Marauder in terms of surviabilty in PVP is horrible. Lack of CC, Stuns, and no knockbacks. And no.. full pvp gear doesn't help your survivability much since your opponents will have full gear to. Marauder is a GLASS CANNON ... period. If your focused your DEAD. Unless you have a team of healers keeping you up, but that applies to all classes. I'm to the point I don't enjoy PvP'ing with my Marauder. I'll only use him for Operations. My OPS healer can go entire matches without a single death. Its just irritating to go into PvP matches now with 90% SI's and Sages. You spend the entire fight in a constant state of CC. Pathetic really. Believe its time to NERF the SI and SAGE so all the noobs will play another class besides the flavor of the month. Every match... a team of SI's with one Merc or Agent. Edited January 30, 2012 by Blaaine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeeFiFoFum Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 You could kill BH but had trouble with troopers? Interesting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kibaken Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) Ok so once I´m pvp geared I will have a better chance is that what you´re saying? That the complainers are undergeared. When I was between 30-40 I could take out lvl50 warriors/guardian/BH quite easy in 1v1 but had a really hard time with lvl 16 sage/assassin/trooper etc(even though I used all my abilities, tried different rotations etc). Right now I don´t have any pvp gear but when I do and if they magicly change my survivability then I will also change my opinion. What I don't think you understand is that Expertise is Resilience on crack. Instead of just reducing the overall damage you take it increases the damage you do as well. If you don't have Expertise behind you, no matter what spec, you're going to be exceptionally weak compared to someone in full Champion gear, not to mention Battlemaster. Slosh through PvP and be as good as you can without the gear. Learn your cooldowns, learn the best way to deal with each class. Even if you die if you can say that you made a mistake fighting them (kited too long, should've used *insert ability here* sooner/more often) you can apply that later on. (Edit)We had to do the same thing but without the large gear gap. The fact is those late to the party are always at a disadvantage. Get the gear and you'll be fine.(Edit End) As I've said a million times before: we can definitely use a few tweaks, but overall we're fine. Trust us. Edited January 30, 2012 by Kibaken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kricys Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 What I don't think you understand is that Expertise is Resilience on crack. Instead of just reducing the overall damage you take it reduces the damage you do as well. If you don't have Expertise behind you, no matter what spec, you're going to be exceptionally weak compared to someone in full Champion gear, not to mention Battlemaster. Slash through PvP and be as good as you can without the gear. Learn your cooldowns, learn the best way to deal with each class. Even if you die if you can say that you made a mistake fighting them (kited too long, should've used *insert ability here* sooner/more often) you can apply that later on. As I've said a million times before: we can definitely use a few tweaks, but overall we're fine. Trust us. They won't listen. The fact that maybe they aren't as good a player as they thought they were won't cross their mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kibaken Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 They won't listen. The fact that maybe they aren't as good a player as they thought they were won't cross their mind. Don't remind me :[ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kricys Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Don't remind me :[ It's pretty sad. At least in wow forums most kids actually read tooltips. I mean look, apparantly 45 seconds is "long", undying rage is only 4 seconds and cloak lasts 6 seconds. They don't even know their own class. Marauders are squishy, period.We have a 4 sec immunity on a long cooldown and a 20% dmg mitigation that lasts 6 seconds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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