Legacy system will not...

[reaperkeepet]

Don't listen to this guy, he never was loved. Poor kid wants attention.

[Castiel]

Goes out to all of you negative people ; Go play another game since you're so convinced that this game'll die. We don't need to hear this.

[Shingara]

I wasnt aware this game needed saving but meh, what ive seen from the legacy system looks amazing.

[kristoffbrujah]

You'd prefer a Kung Fu Panda marketing scheme on a 7 year old game to this?

 

OK

[Abiza]

Why troll?

 

He has a valid point. A gimmick is not going to save this game, we need systems in place that most current MMOs already have.

 

 

The game needs saving? News to me. I suggest you stop reading the forums so much and actually try to enjoy playing the game. You might surprise yourself.

[Taroen]

What fact? People whine on every MMO official forums that ever existed since the beginning of time. WoW has turned into the biggest piece of garbage in recent years. They still play the game. Even with its issues TOR is still better than any other out there, and a refreshing experience than using a sword and board while wearing mail armor. The worst I've ever seen was Aion forums.

 

Not my fault the uptight whiners don't have patience or vision. I read their posts and all I see is waaah waaah waaah... Explain the issue or bug, let them investigate, and work on it. There is a lot that is still in the works and needs to be released. But priorities change depending, and the whiners don't understand how things work in the real world. Things don't get done over night. Sometimes depending on whats wrong it can take quite a while. You all need to understand, and if your not interested in the need, then be gone. Only constructive feedback toward what ever problems you are facing in game should be your focus. Regardless of what anyone has to say about these comments, whiners will be whiners, no matter what. Suck it up buttercup.

 

^^^^ THIS... 1000 times... THIS ^^^^

[shepardcomander]

The game that allows the masses a means to best-in-slot gear that

A: does not require raiding

B: still requires the same subscription time as raiding

will have a healthy and long lived subscriber base.

 

Legacy system has the potential to offer that, let's see if bioware screws it up or not.

[TotalKitty]

All due respect, the only thing this game needs saving from atm is the lack of decent threads on its forum.

 

You dont know what the legacy system will be like and therefore cant possibly predict what the effect will be on the game.

 

What is a decent thread then?

 

If the requirement for a decent thread, is a thread that praise this game to the skies, then this board does not deserve decent threads.

 

There's a reason some people complain you know, and they got nowhere else to go with these things than here.

[silkforcalde]

The combat in this game isn't clunky though, so the OP confuses me.

[tmpearson]

At least pandas are a playable race and not re-skinned humans.

[VenthiosLestaran]

You'd prefer a Kung Fu Panda marketing scheme on a 7 year old game to this?

 

OK

 

Why do you people keep calling them Kung Fu Panda's like they're based on some kind of children's movie voiced by Jack Black. They're Pandaren. They've been part of the Warcraft Lore for over a Decade, always doing the same things they're doing now. Part of a mysterious eastern themed culture who capitalizes on using liquor as a weapon, and drunken martial arts.

 

I've watched Both Kung Fu Panda movies (Love em, not so much 2.) and Po never drinks himself dumb, breathes liquor on someone, LIGHTS THEM ON FIRE, or BREAKS THEIR NECKS with his bear paws (Hah see what I did thar!?). That saying is just - dumb, and it makes everyone who says it look that way.

 

Would you guys please stop? You guys will latch on to Anything the internet says to demean something you don't like, for no reason at that! Hate what the game has become, not the actually really inventive and unique race they featured in lore over a decade ago.

Edited February 4, 2012 by VenthiosLestaran

[angrYdog]

Be what saves this game . I've noticed a trend in a few interviews that devs mention how the legacy system will " blow" us away.

 

 

I'm sorry but if the gameplay remains clunky, the UI stays garbage and a requirement at 50 is to reroll in order to not get bored, then My guess is Pandas will look more intriguing everyday for some.

 

gameplay is clunkey? UI is garbage...?

 

well leave than pls ..have fun in Wow

[boobaffet]

pls save this game from the 1.7 millon sub it haves

[VenthiosLestaran]

gameplay is clunkey? UI is garbage...?

 

well leave than pls ..have fun in Wow

 

Why is this an acceptable reply to substandard quality of life features that have numerous iterations across numerous MMO's over the past EIGHT YEARS?

 

In short, it's not. Please don't defend and accept mediocrity when in fact the budget/time/knowledge was all out there to produce a great, functionally pleasing, and customizable UI? Hell, player's have been doing it for years for the behemoth itself. Why..didn't BW? Eh, who know's. Let's just defend it because it's a negative of something I irrationally need to defend.

 

Right?

 

Edit: Attitudes like AngryDog's are steps backwards in the gaming industry, an industry I love and feel very passionate about. We can't just roll over and accept whatever is pushed out the door. Assess what is given to you, look at whats around you, and ask if it's okay to keep going on this way. Don't take steps backwards just to move. Make sure they're steps Forward.

Edited February 4, 2012 by VenthiosLestaran

[nilssen]

I'm definately not holding my breath for something innovate. I'm guessing lame bonuses o'hoy.

[Oofpez]

Why is this an acceptable reply to substandard quality of life features that have numerous iterations across numerous MMO's over the past EIGHT YEARS?

 

In short, it's not. Please don't defend and accept mediocrity when in fact the budget/time/knowledge was all out there to produce a great, functionally pleasing, and customizable UI? Hell, player's have been doing it for years for the behemoth itself. Why..didn't BW? Eh, who know's. Let's just defend it because it's a negative of something I irrationally need to defend.

 

Right?

 

I agree with the statement that mediocrity is not acceptable.

 

However, my anger is aimed at those who believe that their wants and needs are the entire community's, how they HAVE TO HAVE IT NOW BECAUSE THE BEHEMOTH HAS IT WHY DON'T THEY WAHWAHWAH, and repeatedly post about how horrible this game is, and how they will/want to unsub.

 

IMO the UIs aren't THAT bad, and Bioware has already come out and said that customizable UIs are on their way (heck, there was even video footage of it).

 

The thing is, Bioware had to build this game from basically scratch, and there are many things that they want to implement, but because of more important matters pulled them away from less important (and you have to admit, UI customization is not crucial to a MMO) parts of the game.

 

Do I think this game has flaws? Of course I do, and I have faith that they will actually fix them, and improve on the game in general as time passes.

 

The thing about MMOs is that there are many, MANY things that have to be ironed out post launch. (You never know how something will go wrong, until you have hundreds of thousands of characters stressing the system).

 

I believe that you make a good point, but if you judged the success of an MMO on the first month, the behemoth would be buried and RIFT would have never gotten out of the ground.

 

However, if Bioware doesn't start fixing bugs and adding content, they'll go the way of DC Universe Online, which had a TON of potential, but because there was so much wrong with game, even months after the release, it had to go F2P (thus showing, EVEN THOUGH YOU HAVE A BIG NAME BEHIND THE GAME, THE GAME WON'T NECESSARILY BE SUCCESSFUL)

Edited February 4, 2012 by Oofpez

[VenthiosLestaran]

I agree with the statement that mediocrity is not acceptable.

 

However, my anger is aimed at those who believe that their wants and needs are the entire community's, how they HAVE TO HAVE IT NOW BECAUSE THE BEHEMOTH HAS IT WHY DON'T THEY WAHWAHWAH, and repeatedly post about how horrible this game is, and how they will/want to unsub.

 

IMO the UIs aren't THAT bad, and Bioware has already come out and said that customizable UIs are on their way (heck, there was even video footage of it).

 

The thing is, Bioware had to build this game from basically scratch, and there are many things that they want to implement, but because of more important matters pulled them away from less important (and you have to admit, UI customization is not crucial to a MMO) parts of the game.

 

Do I think this game has flaws? Of course I do, and I have faith that they will actually fix them, and improve on the game in general as time passes.

 

The thing about MMOs is that there are many, MANY things that have to be ironed out post launch. (You never know how something will go wrong, until you have hundreds of thousands of characters stressing the system).

 

I believe that you make a good point, but if you judged the success of an MMO on the first month, the behemoth would be buried, RIFT would have never gotten out of the ground, and DC Universe Online was successful.

 

I don't judge an MMO on it's 1st month. Nobody should. However SWTOR has the deck stacked against it in my opinion in a few ways which I'll get into below if you want to actually read what I have to say, which you did eariler so thank you for that.

 

1. The cost. 200 Million Dollars - and they don't have a scalable/moveable UI out the gate? This kind of thing is just an attention to detail that is unacceptable. Creating a moveable, scalable UI is not overly difficult. Players have been using WoW's code to do it for years, most of the time it's 1-2 people doing all the work. Bioware clearly could have done this, there was no reason to Backburner it other than it was "an acceptable sacrifice."

 

2. The Time. It's 2012, not 2004. Companies now have the benefit of hindsight, which should be 20/20. Not including basic quality of life features that just Make Sense, is not acceptable, especially paired with number one.

 

3. Innovation vs Over-extension. SWTOR's scale as a project in my opinion way overreached itself for the amount of actual "innovation" we see in game, which is entirely focused on the 1-49 game and voice acting. Beyond that they have deviated very little from the standard formula that we've been on for years. It's very important to judge that what you may be going for - might be a bit Too much. The game has sacrificed those basic quality of life features that the Dev's were well aware of, to spend a large portion of their budget on voice actors and contracts, it's a great step forward, but unlikely we will ever see it in this scale again, as it seems to be monetary self destruction.

 

4. Bugs and Information from the Devs about said bugs. They're acceptable, we know they will always exist. The only Problem is that these bugs in large have been reported - in numerous phases of Beta, and have not been resolved. Ability delay still exists, it's been there for a long time, and we just now get an update on it from a dev weeks after launch? That's worrisome, and anyone who isn't worried should put on some glasses. It's been said to death but these also come with the Texture issues, and the Colormatch Option.

 

5. Build from scratch. They bought an untested, unfinished engine to speed their work up. This has worked against them like a rock you have to push Uphill ever since the choice was made. Sacrificing a bit of voice acting and instead of becoming "The First Ever Fully Voiced MMO." They could have built their own engine, really refined it, supplied the basic quality of life features players would expect and like to see - out of the gate and been called "BioWares Star Wars MMORPG with a Fully Voice Acted Personal Story." It's give and take, when you go to an extreme like we see here? Things suffer.

 

That being said - SWTOR is a step forward in interactive story telling, it really is. But it's two steps backwards in the actual MMO department of the game. They can fix it, but it's going to cost, and take a Lot of time.

 

My post is my opinion - my ideas, and what I think in honest. That's all I can ever give anyone. The truth from my mouth. Or..fingers, in this case.

Edited February 4, 2012 by VenthiosLestaran

[Oofpez]

I don't judge an MMO on it's 1st month. Nobody should. However SWTOR has the deck stacked against it in my opinion in a few ways which I'll get into below if you want to actually read what I have to say, which you did eariler so thank you for that.

 

1. The cost. 200 Million Dollars - and they don't have a scalable/moveable UI out the gate? This kind of thing is just an attention to detail that is unacceptable. Creating a moveable, scalable UI is not overly difficult. Players have been using WoW's code to do it for years, most of the time it's 1-2 people doing all the work. Bioware clearly could have done this, there was no reason to Backburner it other than it was "an acceptable sacrifice."

 

2. The Time. It's 2012, not 2004. Companies now have the benefit of hindsight, which should be 20/20. Not including basic quality of life features that just Make Sense, is not acceptable, especially paired with number one.

 

3. Innovation vs Over-extension. SWTOR's scale as a project in my opinion way overreached itself for the amount of actual "innovation" we see in game, which is entirely focused on the 1-49 game and voice acting. Beyond that they have deviated very little from the standard formula that we've been on for years. It's very important to judge that what you may be going for - might be a bit Too much. The game has sacrificed those basic quality of life features that the Dev's were well aware of, to spend a large portion of their budget on voice actors and contracts, it's a great step forward, but unlikely we will ever see it in this scale again, as it seems to be monetary self destruction.

 

4. Bugs and Information from the Devs about said bugs. They're acceptable, we know they will always exist. The only Problem is that these bugs in large have been reported - in numerous phases of Beta, and have not been resolved. Ability delay still exists, it's been there for a long time, and we just now get an update on it from a dev weeks after launch? That's worrisome, and anyone who isn't worried should put on some glasses. It's been said to death but these also come with the Texture issues, and the Colormatch Option.

 

5. Build from scratch. They bought an untested, unfinished engine to speed their work up. This has worked against them like a rock you have to push Uphill ever since the choice was made. Sacrificing a bit of voice acting and instead of becoming "The First Ever Fully Voiced MMO." They could have built their own engine, really refined it, supplied the basic quality of life features players would expect and like to see - out of the gate and been called "BioWares Star Wars MMORPG with a Fully Voice Acted story." It's give and take, when you go to an extreme like we see here? Things suffer.

 

That being said - SWTOR is a step forward in interactive story telling, it really is. But it's two steps backwards in the actual MMO department of the game. They can fix it, but it's going to cost, and take a Lot of time.

 

My post is my opinion - my ideas, and what I think in honest. That's all I can ever give anyone. The truth from my mouth. Or..fingers, in this case.

 

 

1. Budget numbers haven't officially come out yet, estimates put it anywhere from 80 to 500+ million to make. Nevertheless, you make a good point, and I'll concede that there are many things that should have been put in from launch, but when you have a team of devs working day and night (and if you've ever seen video game crunch, you'll see how much of a hell that actually is), the smaller things will be passed over, and have to be released on a later date. Hopefully, Bioware didn't say... OMG WE NEED THEY WANT A CUSTOMIZABLE UI DEVELOP IT NAO.

 

2. I'll admit, TOR isn't near competing with number one just yet, and they would never be if they decided that this game was perfect now, and nothing was needed to be added. However, with the downtime that number one is having in endgame content after 4.3 (until the next expansion in fact), I feel that if the devs kept working at it, we would have a good, fleshed out game in 6 months

 

3. Agree, but understand that a many players are very, VERY scared to try something new, and if TOR didn't keep with the framework, it might have been a complete flop for Bioware. That and... people who come from other MMOs believed that level 50 was where the game started, and instantly blitzed to 50, realized there wasn't much to do, and proceeded to QQ horribly. Bioware put a lot of effort into 1-49 because it was trying to appeal to a much more generalized crowd (my PARENTS play TOR, and loving it because of the voice acting and the branching choices).

 

4. Agree. But they hopefully ARE working on these problems (many they said they are), and that some bug fixes may cause something else to go wrong (see last patch)

 

5. They used Hero Engine as nothing more than the foundation for the game's engine, because they thought, at the time, it was a great match. Also, if I recall correctly, they stopped taking code drops from the original devs of the engine, and if I'm not mistaken, transformed the engine into something completely different from what the engine is today. If they decided to change engines as the newer one came out, I have a feeling it would have gone the way of Duke Nukem...

 

Back on topic:

 

Hopefully the legacy system won't be a complete flop (and judging from the teasers so far, it shouldn't). You'd be getting newer, and possibly better ways to customize and create your character, that will reward those who have spent time into leveling their character, not to mention new skills that you get to use.

[Folgrin]

then My guess is Pandas will look more intriguing everyday for some.

 

Blasphemy!

[VenthiosLestaran]

1. Budget numbers haven't officially come out yet, estimates put it anywhere from 80 to 500+ million to make. Nevertheless, you make a good point, and I'll concede that there are many things that should have been put in from launch, but when you have a team of devs working day and night (and if you've ever seen video game crunch, you'll see how much of a hell that actually is), the smaller things will be passed over, and have to be released on a later date. Hopefully, Bioware didn't say... OMG WE NEED THEY WANT A CUSTOMIZABLE UI DEVELOP IT NAO.

 

2. I'll admit, TOR isn't near competing with number one just yet, and they would never be if they decided that this game was perfect now, and nothing was needed to be added. However, with the downtime that number one is having in endgame content after 4.3 (until the next expansion in fact), I feel that if the devs kept working at it, we would have a good, fleshed out game in 6 months

 

3. Agree, but understand that a many players are very, VERY scared to try something new, and if TOR didn't keep with the framework, it might have been a complete flop for Bioware. That and... people who come from other MMOs believed that level 50 was where the game started, and instantly blitzed to 50, realized there wasn't much to do, and proceeded to QQ horribly. Bioware put a lot of effort into 1-49 because it was trying to appeal to a much more generalized crowd (my PARENTS play TOR, and loving it because of the voice acting and the branching choices).

 

4. Agree. But they hopefully ARE working on these problems (many they said they are), and that some bug fixes may cause something else to go wrong (see last patch)

 

5. They used Hero Engine as nothing more than the foundation for the game's engine, because they thought, at the time, it was a great match. Also, if I recall correctly, they stopped taking code drops from the original devs of the engine, and if I'm not mistaken, transformed the engine into something completely different from what the engine is today. If they decided to change engines as the newer one came out, I have a feeling it would have gone the way of Duke Nukem...

 

Back on topic:

 

Hopefully the legacy system won't be a complete flop (and judging from the teasers so far, it shouldn't). You'd be getting newer, and possibly better ways to customize and create your character, that will reward those who have spent time into leveling their character, not to mention new skills that you get to use.

 

Agreed. The legacy system won't flop completely. It just may be on the underwhelming side as far as things go. Time will tell. I won't be here to see it launch, but I'll certainly read about it!

 

One small note on the Engine - other Hero Engine games suffer from ability delay - They haven't been able to fix it..I hope BW can.

[Wardoomed]

The game is fun. That's all that matters to me.

 

If it is intrinsically not fun, then it might not be for you. If you find the combat clunky and not enjoyable, it might not be something they can or will fix for you. However, if it is a minor thing, such as UI fixes (which are promised to come), more endgame content (certain to come), and balancing, and fixing the minor bugs encountered thus far, then you should probably stick around and expect more fun.

 

I'm looking forward to see what they have in store for us in the Legacy system. I think it's really cool and Bioware has yet to disappoint me in their fantastic track record of games.

 

Que sera sera.

Edited February 4, 2012 by Wardoomed

[Cerion]

not sure what the Legacy system will or will not do. Here's one thing I hope I can do:

 

Separate my darkside character paths from lightside. In other words, I hope my Lightside Jedi isn't related to my Sith characters in some mechanical, artificial gamey way unless I specify such.

 

What might be really cool, though? A way for the system to load one of your alts so that you can fight it, hahha. I'd love from my Jedi to be able to face my Sith Inquisitor at some point. Computer AI could run the opposing faction.

 

hmmm...yes....I quite like this idea.

[VenthiosLestaran]

not sure what the Legacy system will or will not do. Here's one thing I hope I can do:

 

Separate my darkside character paths from lightside. In other words, I hope my Lightside Jedi isn't related to my Sith characters in some mechanical, artificial gamey way unless I specify such.

 

What might be really cool, though? A way for the system to load one of your alts so that you can fight it, hahha. I'd love from my Jedi to be able to face my Sith Inquisitor at some point. Computer AI could run the opposing faction.

 

hmmm...yes....I quite like this idea.

 

W..Would you be allowed to loot yourself after you defeat the AI controlling it? If so? What kind of insane paradox might that create? What..what if you loot yourself and suddenly you're trapped in your own inventory!?

 

..You just blew my mind brah.

[Cerion]

W..Would you be allowed to loot yourself after you defeat the AI controlling it? If so? What kind of insane paradox might that create? What..what if you loot yourself and suddenly you're trapped in your own inventory!?

 

..You just blew my mind brah.

 

haha...like Good Spock/Evil Spock...mirror universe stuff. (hope I didn't commit some sin by mentioning Star Trek in a Star Wars forum).

 

I expect we'll have shared inventory at some point (many MMOs offer this eventually)...so yeah, loot your own Alt, lol. But not sure you could use any of it.

[Ekemeister]

go rewatch the video, there working on the gui. Calm down OP. As for the game itself, it's not that clunky; the game is actually quite adaptive. Sometimes the animations lag behind the damage, but they're smooth and don't prevent the further queuing of abilities.

 

The main two things that people are griping about are simple macros and ui mods. I don't presently believe that macros should be included, but the ui mod is a definite plz and thank you.

 

not sure what the Legacy system will or will not do. Here's one thing I hope I can do:

 

Separate my darkside character paths from lightside. In other words, I hope my Lightside Jedi isn't related to my Sith characters in some mechanical, artificial gamey way unless I specify such.

 

What might be really cool, though? A way for the system to load one of your alts so that you can fight it, hahha. I'd love from my Jedi to be able to face my Sith Inquisitor at some point. Computer AI could run the opposing faction.

 

hmmm...yes....I quite like this idea.

 

I would love to see new weap specs for certain classes. Sith using vibroswords (KoTOR) and Bounty hunters using blaster rifles (SWRotJ; alpha screens) and electrostaves are not necessarily so outlandish. Empire vendors sell assault cannons; I'd love to stick one on my powertech.

Edited February 4, 2012 by Ekemeister