jarjarloves Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Death star. </thread> They'd just lawl Klingon and call it a day. death star was destroyed by an X-wing..... twice...... yeah. 1 shuttle craft could do the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayla_Felana Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Borg show up... empire launches newly remade Sun-crusher and annihilates every star the borg show up in very easily by the fact they can travel millions of time faster and don't give a crap about killing innocent... or how about Emperor uses the force to move his consciousness into the Borg queen now the empire controls them it's all Deus ex machina powers and baseless assumtions at this point The Borg assimilate just one ship, hack Imperial network, assimilate the Empire, the Suncrusher and Empire loses, also Borg can cross the galaxy, very fast, they have networks of gates they can pop in and out in, all over, in basically the same time it takes in Hyperspace, they can also travel in time, kill Bane after the Thought Bomb, Empire and Rule of Two never exists. Yeah, that's right, they can travel in time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liquidacid Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) The Borg assimilate just one ship, hack Imperial network, assimilate the Empire, the Suncrusher and Empire loses, also Borg can cross the galaxy, very fast, they have networks of gates they can pop in and out in, all over, in basically the same time it takes in Hyperspace, they can also travel in time, kill Bane after the Thought Bomb, Empire and Rule of Two never exists. Yeah, that's right, they can travel in time. by traveling back in time and touching stuff the borg cause a paradox and the entire universe is erased... no one wins Edited February 7, 2012 by Liquidacid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayla_Felana Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 by traveling back in time and touching stuff the borg cause a paradox and the entire universe is erased... no one wins That isn't how time travel has worked in either universe, This is not Doctor Who, The Borg simply assimilates the galaxy before the Empire exists, no major military power is left to stop them, the Army of Light and the brotherhood of Darkness were wiped out by Darth Bane, Darth Bane is dead, The Borg assimilate the entire galaxy, game over. But back on topic, I personally think the sheer size of the Imperial Navy trumps the Klingon Empire, even if we state Klingons have superior firepower, Firepower might wipe out some Imperial fleets, but eventually the Klingons will be wiped out through attrition, this is just my thought on the matter, to be honest, I think this was a very one sided battle in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liquidacid Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) That isn't how time travel has worked in either universe, This is not Doctor Who, The Borg simply assimilates the galaxy before the Empire exists, no major military power is left to stop them, the Army of Light and the brotherhood of Darkness were wiped out by Darth Bane, Darth Bane is dead, The Borg assimilate the entire galaxy, game over. actually according to the latest SW lore (look up flow walking) when you time travel backward in the SW universe the force corrects the time line so you can do nothing more than leave an imprint of yourself in the force in the timeline... so by SW rules the force would correct the timeline so nothing would be accomplished Edited February 7, 2012 by Liquidacid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayla_Felana Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 actually according to the latest SW lore (look up flow walking) when you time travel backward in the SW universe the force corrects the time line so you can do nothing more than leave an imprint of yourself in the force in the timeline... so by SW rules the force would correct the timeline so nothing would be accomplished The force corrected force users time travelling, the Borg don't have Midichlorians, they aren't affected by the force directly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabloosh Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) death star was destroyed by an X-wing..... twice...... yeah. 1 shuttle craft could do the same thing. Yeah maybe if the pilot was a force wielding bastard with ridiculous luck. My view is more of a "federation doesn't have the manpower to conquer the empire but the empire can't take out the federation " mainly because it would require an inordinate amount of resources to conquer the federation compared to what they would win. So the end result is the federation chilling in their territory and the empire leaving them alone. Much like the result of Vietnam If you are talking about the Empire they would obliterate the standing army and Federation naval forces leaving for a possible choice between an occupation or using the death star to blow up a few planets to get the rest in line. We are talking about someone that isn't going to take your ****. Now the Galactic Republic would choose the occupation route since they would have peace in mind. A war would most likely never happen between the 2 and the Federation would be annexed into the Galactic Republic most likely. Edited February 7, 2012 by Kabloosh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarjarloves Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) Yeah maybe if the pilot was a force wielding bastard with ridiculous luck. Wedge? Plus Star Wars targeting systems are crap everything is done by hand they don't have computer controlled turrets. Think about all the guns on the death star and how they have guys aiming the guns or the Millenium Falcons guns, the clone wars and all the space battles there. In fact Jango Fett vs Obi wan is the only time we see some type of guided missiles that can change course. Of course as we already established Star Wars armor can't stand up to being crushed by 2 trees. So you have the empire with weapons that have to be manually aimed for the most part and ships that can easily be destroyed. Edited February 7, 2012 by jarjarloves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liquidacid Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 The force corrected force users time travelling, the Borg don't have Midichlorians, they aren't affected by the force directly. O.o we don't know that... .. by SW lore no life can exist without the force so they HAVE to have it... at least the organic parts anyway and even inanimate objects that don't contain Midichlorians can be influenced and affected by it... Luke lifting a non-living rock which wouldn't have any Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabloosh Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Wedge? Plus Star Wars targeting systems are crap everything is done by hand they don't have computer controlled turrets. Think about all the guns on the death star and how they have guys aiming the guns or the Millenium Falcons guns, the clone wars and all the space battles there. In fact Jango Fett vs Obi wan is the only time we see some type of guided missiles that can change course. The 1st one got blown up by Luke. 2nd one was a group effort. Many things had to happen like poorly equipped ground forces and terribly designed armored vehicles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayla_Felana Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 O.o we don't know that... .. by SW lore no life can exist without the force so they HAVE to have it... at least the organic parts anyway and even inanimate objects that don't contain Midichlorians can be influenced and affected by it... Luke lifting a non-living rock which wouldn't have any The Vong had no midichlorians and could not be affected directly by the force, they were clearly very much alive, they were immune to much of the force, Luke's powers were almost useless, only by telekinetically throwing things at them was force use any good, The Borg could not be directly affected by the force, they are from the Milky Way, not the Star Wars galaxy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liquidacid Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) The 1st one got blown up by Luke. 2nd one was a group effort. Many things had to happen like poorly equipped ground forces and terribly designed armored vehicles. no it was the "good guy always wins" card that explains all that... lol a good guy with a pointy stick could obliterate the empire, the klingons and the borg.. why? because he's the good guy The Vong had no midichlorians and could not be affected directly by the force, they were clearly very much alive, they were immune to much of the force, Luke's powers were almost useless, only by telekinetically throwing things at them was force use any good, The Borg could not be directly affected by the force, they are from the Milky Way, not the Star Wars galaxy. they never tested the Vong for midichlorians so we don't know.. and it is established that they were part of the force just blocked out by it.. in fact Onimi was Vong AND could both use the force and be affected by it.... if the Borg could get to the SW galaxy then they must exist in the SW universe which has very specific rules... but then again if life from the Milky Way is so different at the most fundamental level that they don't have midichlorians or the force than it stands to reason they are different enough to not be compatible with Borg technology at all Dues ex machina Edited February 7, 2012 by Liquidacid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WowWasBetter Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Yeah maybe if the pilot was a force wielding bastard with ridiculous luck. If you are talking about the Empire they would obliterate the standing army and Federation naval forces leaving for a possible choice between an occupation or using the death star to blow up a few planets to get the rest in line. We are talking about someone that isn't going to take your ****. Now the Galactic Republic would choose the occupation route since they would have peace in mind. A war would most likely never happen between the 2 and the Federation would be annexed into the Galactic Republic most likely. The death star is a piece of junk. Hell every starship in the federation could be outfitted with subspace weapons that also blow up planets in one hit. Red matter can be deployed to create black holes every time the empire drops out of hyperspace and destroy every single ship. The empire would have to launch a 360 degree attack on every federation world at the same time and even then the losses they'd suffer would cripple them and let any other faction mop up what's left. Star wars has numbers that's their ONLY advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rayla_Felana Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Red matter can be deployed to create black holes every time the empire drops out of hyperspace and destroy every single ship. Red Matter is not Star Trek canon. It's part of J.J. Abrams' movie, which is an alternate universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarjarloves Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 The 1st one got blown up by Luke. 2nd one was a group effort. Many things had to happen like poorly equipped ground forces and terribly designed armored vehicles. agree on that but it could have also been done if they actually had good targeting computers. Jango could have pulled off the shot. Just look at all their space battles and how many stray shots they have. All their armor is pretty consistent when it comes to how much damage they can take. We know that At-St are made of Durasteel and we know that all their space ships are also made of dura steel. We see how much damage their weapons do to it and it's all pretty consistent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarjarloves Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) Red Matter is not Star Trek canon. It's part of J.J. Abrams' movie, which is an alternate universe. 100% spot on we are talking about things that are canon. For Star Trek that is only things that are in the television series and the movies. I don't know how Star Trek deals with info that contradicts itself though. Star Wars its very clear the higher canon wins. When in doubt look at the movies. Edited February 7, 2012 by jarjarloves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MustrumRidcully Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) Red Matter is not Star Trek canon. It's part of J.J. Abrams' movie, which is an alternate universe. Actually, Red Matter comes from the prime universe, just like the old Spock did. So it probably exists in both. And even "JJ Trek" is canon - it is, however, canon of an alternate universe. The Mirror Universe is also part of that canon. Different timelines _really_ complicate canon, of course. I don't know how Star Trek deals with info that contradicts itself though. Star Wars its very clear the higher canon wins. When in doubt look at the movies. Well, since Star Trek canon is only TV + movies - about as good as Star Wars, really. If the movies or TV shows are inconsistent, then it would require a case to case basis. Of course, there is one important difference - Star Wars seems to have an arbiter of canon that may resolve such conflicts. Star Trek doesn't really have that. Edited February 7, 2012 by MustrumRidcully Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabloosh Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) The death star is a piece of junk. Hell every starship in the federation could be outfitted with subspace weapons that also blow up planets in one hit. Red matter can be deployed to create black holes every time the empire drops out of hyperspace and destroy every single ship. The empire would have to launch a 360 degree attack on every federation world at the same time and even then the losses they'd suffer would cripple them and let any other faction mop up what's left. Star wars has numbers that's their ONLY advantage. Well Star Wars is at an unfair advantage when it comes to tech since its not exactly "described" and is most definitely poorly presented in the movies. If we go by the movies and what we absolutely saw I'd be willing to bet minus capital ships modern military forces would mop the floor with any ground force represented in star wars and any small fighter/bomber aircraft. Star Trek just has had more time to grow and modernize its realism to make sense if it were brought into a real world scenario while star wars is just a big question mark. From the movies you have no idea if they have been possibly been into other world ending technologies. So yeah the Star Trek guys can be dumping planet destroying weaponry onto oncoming fleets but when its a thousand to 1 and you are dropping black holes next to your home world who really is going to win this in the end here? If you want to throw out ******** scenarios where The Federation outfitted every force with world ending weaponry to fight massive fleets I'm sure the Emperor is only going to mind **** those that matter within the Federation and have the place collapse in the end. The force is ******** dude. We know that At-St are made of Durasteel and we know that all their space ships are also made of dura steel. We see how much damage their weapons do to it and it's all pretty consistent. How "strong" is durasteel though? If we go by the movies then the stuff is probably weaker than cast iron. I suppose they never discovered titanium much less layered depleted uranium that is on modern Main Battle Tanks. Edited February 7, 2012 by Kabloosh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liquidacid Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) I don't know how Star Trek deals with info that contradicts itself though. that's easy.. they don't... they just ignore it.. in fact they have more than once contradicted themselves during the same episode and ignored it both later on in said episode and in later episodes and series... they then proceed to flop back and forth between the canon events depending on which one best suits the plot Edited February 7, 2012 by Liquidacid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WowWasBetter Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 100% spot on we are talking about things that are canon. For Star Trek that is only things that are in the television series and the movies. I don't know how Star Trek deals with info that contradicts itself though. Star Wars its very clear the higher canon wins. When in doubt look at the movies. Red matter was created in the prime universe. The alternate universe doesn't start until nero goes back and messes up the timeline. As for keeping the time travel consistent, every temporal incursion creates a new time line. Parallel universe stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeepsMcJuggs Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) The force corrected force users time travelling, the Borg don't have Midichlorians, they aren't affected by the force directly. This (liquid's comment) also presumes Star Trek players have to play by Star Wars rules. Edited February 7, 2012 by PeepsMcJuggs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liquidacid Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) Red matter was created in the prime universe. The alternate universe doesn't start until nero goes back and messes up the timeline. As for keeping the time travel consistent, every temporal incursion creates a new time line. Parallel universe stuff than how come in tons of the movies and series they were able to time travel and directly affect their own timeline and return to it? space whales didn't create no Parallel universe This (liquid's comment) also presumes Star Trek players have to play by Star Wars rules. and he is assuming SW players have to play by Star trek rules it's arbitrary Edited February 7, 2012 by Liquidacid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kabloosh Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 than how come in tons of the movies and series they were able to time travel and directly affect their own timeline and return to it? space whales didn't create no Parallel universe Space whales didn't kill Kirk's father prematurely either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liquidacid Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Space whales didn't kill Kirk's father prematurely either. by space whale I was referring to Kirk http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRKkhNi6fxLxa8bB4tO9GV7QBNwcMQ8PlnMr34yvRzCINc0SGoQXQtdbDkp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WowWasBetter Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) than how come in tons of the movies and series they were able to time travel and directly affect their own timeline and return to it? space whales didn't create no Parallel universe Actually it did we just didn't see the result as they presumably stayed in their own timeline and not the alternate they created. Or they did stay in the new timeline and their actions weren't notable enough to change the course of events Edit: as for the emperor, Q. Checkmate. Or my preferred galactic barrier or the tholians (? Pretty sure those are the semi godlike incoporal dudes) Edited February 7, 2012 by WowWasBetter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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