TheTurniipKing Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) Just this ^^^ This is a game not a grinding machine. The space stations add flair and if you can´t see it...your loss. Why has everything always bend to an effective grinding game. Sooner or later people will complain about loot and epics not walking directly into their inventories. If BW answeres this grinders petition then please only as optional change. Let people chose if they want to enjoy the game or run past it. To paraphrase the inestimable Douglas Adams: It can hardly be a coincidence that no language in the galaxy has ever produced the expression "As pretty as an spaceport." I'm all for the world being detailed with things that are not nessicarily dedicated to levelling or grinding. But spaceports are not the things that anyone in their right might should choose to do it with. Edited February 1, 2012 by TheTurniipKing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kosomok Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 I am one of those that finds interplanetary travel irksome.. largely because I find it poorly executed and essentially without purpose as it is executed. Still trying to figure out why I have to walk through an empty hanger and take an elevator to go to and from my ship--the reality is that there is no good technical or story reason for it in most cases.... and it doesn't add to my immersion (YMMV). It simply irritates me. Even worse is when I cannot actually land on the planet, for some reason--a small, largely unprotected shuttle can travel to the surface but somehow my armed and shielded ship cannot make the trip. You want to add to my immersion, make me fly the ship down to the planet through the gauntlet of defenses that are supposedly stopping me--but allowing (somehow) the shuttle. I find the travel in most MMOs irksome.. always have. a 20 minute gryphon ride? First time i encountered that in WoW I was like, ***? By comparison, SWTOR is not bad... but it still doesn't mean that I like it... and I will never forget a 2 hour (one way) trip I took once in EVE beta to get somewhere, only to turn around and come back. That was what convinced me not to play the game. Yes, I know I am going to face loading screens--it isn't the loading screen that irks me, its the dead space in the actual game once you go through the screens or are going to the screens. I can spacebar through the videos (and always do), but I can't spacebar through the pointless walk... almost as pointless is my forced return to NPCs to turn quests in.. okay I can talk to someone across the galaxy via Holocom, but I have to come to your office to talk to you? Okayyyy....... yes, sometimes it IS justificable, but in the vast majority of cases, it isn't. Need to give me an ward or some credits? There's the mailbox.... a lot of other NPCs seem to be using it because I get mail from them all the time. I work for a living, this is my entertainment. Walking through dead space in a game is not entertaining and my time is limited. I would rather be doing something constructive. Its bad enough I can't learn to run until the mid teens and not drive a vehicle until L 25.. really, what is the purpose of that, other than to make the beginner areas seem larger? After the first character I don't really care. Largely just venting here, don't really care if you agree with me or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valgranth Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 It's repetitive and bland. I rarely skip anything, but I always skip the take off/landing videos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkhosis Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Just this ^^^ This is a game not a grinding machine. The space stations add flair and if you can´t see it...your loss. Why has everything always bend to an effective grinding game. Sooner or later people will complain about loot and epics not walking directly into their inventories. If BW answeres this grinders petition then please only as optional change. Let people chose if they want to enjoy the game or run past it. I grind nothing and find it annoying. I happily level alts and love the stories... Yet I still hate all the loading screens. There's nothing about a loading screen that adds to the game. Seen one orbital station- seen em all. If they were all at least unique I'd see some justification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goreson Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Guess what I was doing when I was riding that balloon on tattooine. I was chatting with the guy riding it with me. We exchanged tips about the classes we play and I added him as a friend. Guess what I'm doing when I'm running through an airlock... nothing Guess how long it takes riding the ballon? 40 min Guess how long it takes to get thru the 'elevator'/airlock? (including transition screen) less than 5 sec. Let me guess: you are a 'I need to do something every second I'm in game' person? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-monk- Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 I've said it before in this thread but the constant yammering by the same few necessitates some repetition on my part! Significant actions (those actions which allow us to feel 'accomplishment' etc.) cannot exist without first [also] there existing the trivial and mundane. Are you who are for this change really willing to make the entire game less of an accomplishment in order to spare a few seconds here and there? oh and loading screens? what loading screens........buy an SSD! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShonaChaos Posted February 1, 2012 Author Share Posted February 1, 2012 Guess how long it takes riding the ballon? 40 min Guess how long it takes to get thru the 'elevator'/airlock? (including transition screen) less than 5 sec. Let me guess: you are a 'I need to do something every second I'm in game' person? Isn't that kind of the point of playing a game... you know, playing the game? i can't say I enjoy doing nothing. I mean sometimes I'll stand and stare at the wall for a few hours, that's a hoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShonaChaos Posted February 1, 2012 Author Share Posted February 1, 2012 I've said it before in this thread but the constant yammering by the same few necessitates some repetition on my part! Significant actions (those actions which allow us to feel 'accomplishment' etc.) cannot exist without first [also] there existing the trivial and mundane. Are you who are for this change really willing to make the entire game less of an accomplishment in order to spare a few seconds here and there? oh and loading screens? what loading screens........buy an SSD! When I travel to warm beaches on vacation. I feel it is an accomplishment that I'm able to get time off work and the money I saved to be able to afford such a vacation, feels like an accomplishment. The fact that I clipped my toenails the day before i left is completely irrelevant and doesn't add any accomplishment to my journey. Much like travelling through an airlock doesn't add any accomplishment for me in this game. But hey, if travelling through the airlock and orbital station is your idea of fulfilling and it adds some accomplishment to your journey, who am i to argue... I'll just think you're friggin insane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTurniipKing Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Guess how long it takes riding the ballon? 40 min Guess how long it takes to get thru the 'elevator'/airlock? (including transition screen) less than 5 sec. Let me guess: you are a 'I need to do something every second I'm in game' person? Well... yeah. Otherwise the game kicks you for being AFK. ba-dump-tish! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-monk- Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) When I travel to warm beaches on vacation. I feel it is an accomplishment that I'm able to get time off work and the money I saved to be able to afford such a vacation, feels like an accomplishment. The fact that I clipped my toenails the day before i left is completely irrelevant and doesn't add any accomplishment to my journey. Much like travelling through an airlock doesn't add any accomplishment for me in this game. But hey, if travelling through the airlock and orbital station is your idea of fulfilling and it adds some accomplishment to your journey, who am i to argue... I'll just think you're friggin insane. Please don't put words into my mouth. My post states that I believe it is in fact the existence of the trivial and mundane (in life and in entertainment) which allows for the feeling of accomplishment when something (by comparing it to the trivial) is significant. I did not say that the trivial/mundane add to accomplishment or are in any way fulfilling. The trivial and mundane allow for the existence of accomplishment. How would one rate something as significant (life or entertainment) if there wasn't the trivial with which to compare it first? Reading comprehension is necessary at times...... Edited February 1, 2012 by -monk- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goreson Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 I don't suppose it would be too much to ask for that transport to take me directly to my ship as an option? Maybe try bribing the pilot? Oh, wait, he won't talk to you... too bad, I guess you have to make your choice at the time when you select a QT point... and sadly as there is no QT point in or next to your ship... well, you have to run from the closest QT point... of course, if you could get a QT point added... for which you should make a suggestion, not start a discussion... oh darn... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShonaChaos Posted February 1, 2012 Author Share Posted February 1, 2012 Please don't put words into my mouth. My post states that I believe it is in fact the existence of the trivial and mundane (in life and in entertainment) which allows for the feeling of accomplishment when something (by comparing it to the trivial) is significant. I did not say that the trivial/mundane add to accomplishment or are in any way fulfilling. The trivial and mundane allow for the existence of accomplishment. How would one rate something as significant (life or entertainment) if there wasn't the trivial with which to compare it first? Reading comprehension is necessary at times...... So you're advocating trivial and mundane crap because you feel without it we wouldn't feel like we accomplished anything? Go away... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-monk- Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) So you're advocating trivial and mundane crap because you feel without it we wouldn't feel like we accomplished anything? Go away... I'm not advocating anything. I'm stating that that is how everyday life already is. Check back in with reality sometime. Maybe you'll learn something.... We humans 'feel' things (including the feeling of accomplishment) because we compare. We constantly compare people, situations, emotions etc. Those comparisons allow us to feel. Afterall it is referred to as a 'feeling of accomplishment'. Of course in order to 'feel' said feeling we first need to be able to compare something again. That would be trivial/mundane to the siginificant. If we were to remove all trivial/mundane from our lives we would thereby also be removing the potential to 'feel accomplishment'. Edited February 1, 2012 by -monk- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goreson Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Well... yeah. Otherwise the game kicks you for being AFK. ba-dump-tish! Strange, it actually take a few minutes for the game to kick me if I'm AFK... must be a special feature for certain people that they need to do something every single second or otherwise they get kicked? The special ADD edition of SWTOR? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShonaChaos Posted February 1, 2012 Author Share Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) Maybe try bribing the pilot? Oh, wait, he won't talk to you... too bad, I guess you have to make your choice at the time when you select a QT point... and sadly as there is no QT point in or next to your ship... well, you have to run from the closest QT point... of course, if you could get a QT point added... for which you should make a suggestion, not start a discussion... oh darn... I have no idea what you're talking about... You're kinda just stating the obvious... and well... I'm not sure what your point is. Edited February 1, 2012 by ShonaChaos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goreson Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Isn't that kind of the point of playing a game... you know, playing the game? i can't say I enjoy doing nothing. I mean sometimes I'll stand and stare at the wall for a few hours, that's a hoot. errr... nope? playing a game can have many points, like for example to relax... just standing there taking in the scenary... oh, wait, that is of course still doing something... Can you tell me which wall you are looking at? Might be a nice break from looking around a spaceport... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShonaChaos Posted February 1, 2012 Author Share Posted February 1, 2012 I'm not advocating anything. I'm stating that that is how everyday life already is. Check back in with reality sometime. Maybe you'll learn something.... You know, I really can't stand people who come into a thread and spew some psychobabble that doesn't even pertain to what is being talked about, then tell me I'm the one who needs the reality check. If you like the system as is, cool, good for you. Most people hate it, or at least dislike it. It has nothing to do with psychology. Nobody is imagining that it sucks, it REALLY DOES SUCK! I don't care if some people's neurons don't fire properly or whether they were abused as children so the way they perceive things is skewed. it doesn't matter. I personally find zero enjoyment the way things currently are, and surprise guess what? That is an issue to ME. I don't care if it's not an issue to you, or 100 other people who somehow feel walking through a pointless airlock is immersive or fun or needed. Seriously, everyone can go on talking about insta-levelling to 50, or purple walking into your inventory as some sort of retarded argument against improving travel... but the seriously SANE people are sitting back and watching all you fanboys make complete fools of yourselves with your pathetic arguments against it. I find it absolutely hilarious. But seriously, continue defending the worst travel system the MMO world has ever seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGriffith Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 I really don't see why players are arguing for the loading screens to stay. The possible solution to these loading screens i.e. less of them, will not effect you at all unless you want them there ofc. *shrugs* the loading screens are a necessity, they are the result of limitations in computer technology and increased expectations of players. A server computer can not possibly hold the entire game world and all its NPCs and mobs, so the world will have to be broken in fragments, otherwise known as zones. Or planets in SWTOR. Few client computers will be able to run the entire zone at once, even if the server could handle it. Thus each zone is further broken down in more or less isolated fragments. No single computer could possibly run the combat and interaction of all the players in a zone (planet) AND all the hundreds of NPCs and mobs, unless you want to really turn the game into a single player game. Thus instancing and each partial zone having its own server. So ... when you arrive at a planet there is the long loading screen with the progress bar where the client loads the art assets (mainly textures and repetitive object geometry) for that planet. That's a great many megabytes of object, texture and sound files all being loaded into the various computer and graphics card memories. If you transition from one part of the planet to another, or you enter an instance, then there is the short 5 second black screen. During this time your character is transfered from one server computer to another, but little additional loading takes place. Sometimes there is a slightly longer delay where the client computer needs to swap in a different set of geometry (especialy if the computer is at the very low end of required specs), but in general SWTOR is actually highly advanced at this as you can see when you taxi through the world. E.g. in Taris you see all the mobs, NPCs, resource nodes and other players as you fly by, without any loading screens, meaning that while you are probably moved around the planet by a dedicated taxi server, it has acccess to the full planetary data (unlike certain other games that pretty much have a lifeless, or inactive gameworld that you are moved about). Even games that appear not to have zones do in fact have them. They simply use a variety of tricks to hide them. Lower quality and less varied art assets is one trick that can be used. Transition zones are another (that is a zone that is under control of one server but is mirrored by another. While you run through it your computer loads the assets of the next server and the two servers work out the transition of your character hopefully without too much visual stutter. This solution appears seamless but has a lot of stability issues especially if travel speed goes up). There is a reason why the flightpaths of WoW are so slow. The client loads the assets of the new zone behind the scenes during that time, so you have the same x minute load time only your character is moving through a copy of the game world by way of a dedicated flightpath server). SWTOR could use the same technique for their space flight. Instead of near instant travel followed by a load screen, they could have programmed a slow (catered to the lowest computer speed they still want to support) 'movie' where you see your ship or your character, head in a direction, speed up, jump to lightspeed, wait staring at the starfields, jump down, slow down and finally dock at an orbital or other planetary space station. Same result really as it takes time to shift all that data around and amount of moaning is going to change that. Well, I guess low res geometry, smaller zones and cartoon graphics textures would significantly reduce the loading time. But then you will see load screens while traveling from one part of a planet to another and the game looks like, well, WoW. In summary, load screens are a necessary trade off. The higher quality graphcs and the bigger the zones the more load screens you will see and the longer they will take. Games that appear to have no zones or load screens really do have them, they are just cleverly disguised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkholm Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Have you ever seen starwars movies ?_ damn .. what the hell is wrong with you people... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goreson Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 I am one of those that finds interplanetary travel irksome.. largely because I find it poorly executed and essentially without purpose as it is executed. Still trying to figure out why I have to walk through an empty hanger and take an elevator to go to and from my ship--the reality is that there is no good technical or story reason for it in most cases.... and it doesn't add to my immersion (YMMV). It simply irritates me. Even worse is when I cannot actually land on the planet, for some reason--a small, largely unprotected shuttle can travel to the surface but somehow my armed and shielded ship cannot make the trip. You want to add to my immersion, make me fly the ship down to the planet through the gauntlet of defenses that are supposedly stopping me--but allowing (somehow) the shuttle. I find the travel in most MMOs irksome.. always have. a 20 minute gryphon ride? First time i encountered that in WoW I was like, ***? By comparison, SWTOR is not bad... but it still doesn't mean that I like it... and I will never forget a 2 hour (one way) trip I took once in EVE beta to get somewhere, only to turn around and come back. That was what convinced me not to play the game. Yes, I know I am going to face loading screens--it isn't the loading screen that irks me, its the dead space in the actual game once you go through the screens or are going to the screens. I can spacebar through the videos (and always do), but I can't spacebar through the pointless walk... almost as pointless is my forced return to NPCs to turn quests in.. okay I can talk to someone across the galaxy via Holocom, but I have to come to your office to talk to you? Okayyyy....... yes, sometimes it IS justificable, but in the vast majority of cases, it isn't. Need to give me an ward or some credits? There's the mailbox.... a lot of other NPCs seem to be using it because I get mail from them all the time. I work for a living, this is my entertainment. Walking through dead space in a game is not entertaining and my time is limited. I would rather be doing something constructive. Its bad enough I can't learn to run until the mid teens and not drive a vehicle until L 25.. really, what is the purpose of that, other than to make the beginner areas seem larger? After the first character I don't really care. Largely just venting here, don't really care if you agree with me or not. You are serious, right? /facepalm Okay: it's not an elevator in spaceports, it's a blast door you are passing thru! Is there a reason for it to be there? Well, considering that on an airport the access/boarding gates are actually (usually) security locked to stop morons from running out onto the airfield, I'd say yeah... Not being able to land on a planet... jeez... okay, you may have missed it but the example has been brought up a number of times: Hoth, spaceship graveyard! It is *********** cold! Maintenance for keeping open large landing pad operational: too expensive. Setting up a spaceport: who would do that? The salvagers? The Reps? The Imps? Because you need to have a cruise liner drop in to allow the passengers a bit of sightseeing? Buy your 'I got eaten by a Wampa and all I got was this t shirt' shirt! Look at Hoth more along the lines of an oil rig: you got a boat or a chopper going in, no big landing strip on it. Why? Because it's cheaper/easier to just use that harbor close by or to use that small airfield close by. There are reasons! So, you don't like 'empty' spaces, you don't like to ravel thru them? Congrats: take a time machine, go back to the late 90s of the last century. I'm sure you'll find enough games there. Because that was how FPS was back then: very small map forcing player to constantly fight. Even MMOs back then tried to create a persistant world, not just a single map. To stay in a game that is not too your liking because you actually have to report back to a quest giver (or other person) in person and can't just holo call it in (how would you get your reward? Would it be teleported to you?) and because you are not dropped straight into a quest zone, well, that is your choice... Maybe save those $15 per month and play another game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexishomer Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 I think the worse part is the Orbital Station... I don't even understand why they are in game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenzyguy Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Let's say for instance I'm on a planet and i want to go to the next planet... I start off on planet A... I have to run through the pointless space station that for some reason looks the exact same on every planet... I think I then have to zone into the hangar of my class... then I have to run all the way to shuttle or whatever... Then for whatever reason I'm now on a pointless orbital station... god dammit! So I have to run to the next point where I have to zone... now I'm in a gosh darn airlock??? jesus Christ when will I get to my Spaceship... Ok cool I'm finally on my spaceship... oh my god I wish my stupid droid had something else to say other than the same 5 lines every time I zoned in... I wish he would shutup already! Ok cool, finally I'm ready to go to the planet I want... what the hell I'm in the gosh darn airlock again... awesome I'll just run through that again for whatever pointless reason... Jesus Christ I'm on another orbital station. I guess I'll just spend more time running to the stupid shuttle... is there even a point to this stupid orbital station other than pissing me off... Cool I'm finally on the planet I want... oh Jesus tapdancing Christ i have to run through the hangar again... oh look I zoned into the exact same space station again? is this even a different planet or am I on the same one? Guess I'll have to run through this generic space station to see what planet I'm on... All that time wasted for no reason... My point... please for the love of god BW... make travel between planets less painful... And people like you are slowly killing the genre, wow someday in the near past was like this with full of time sink, slowly people compalined without stoping, then we are here today spamming LFD/LFR while standing still in Orgrimmar....trust me we wodnt want this to happen to swtor. Maybe just remove space station and just making ship -spaceport planet should be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShonaChaos Posted February 1, 2012 Author Share Posted February 1, 2012 Goreson, all your arguments pro-realism can be defeated by the fact I can torch things in this game with electric fireballs flying out of my bum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chronciledfx Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Ummm that's how it was in WoW. I mean if I was in say out lands and some one was being ganked in north rend I would have to (if I could hearth back to somewhere and then fly to that location even with my epic fast flying it would take time). Ok so this game doesn't have a hearth, but even it did it would be one location and most people would set it to the fleet. Portals didn't even come to WoW until BC so people could go back to azeroth from Shat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goreson Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Goreson, all your arguments pro-realism can be defeated by the fact I can torch things in this game with electric fireballs flying out of my bum. Well, in that case I assume that you actually don't need a spaceship to fly from one planet to the other? I mean having to use some vehicle for interplanetary travel would be so realistic, we can't have that in SWTOR! So... why are you actually entering the spaceport in the first place? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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