kijthae Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 (edited) Hello dear community. Here is clearly what happened. He got 16k hp , around %12 expertise. He is an operative from my guild I got 15230 hp and %11 expertise. Im playing assasin. I got full hp , he approached to me from behind in stealth 1-) he hit 7303 with his opener Hidden Strike . I lost almost %50 of my hp with 1 single hit , 7927 hp left 2-) he hit me 3992 with his backstab , I had 3935 hp on his second hit. 3-) he applied his poisons which ticks for 600 4-) I died on his third backstab Lets see what I could do to him if i was at behind.All damage calculated here is dealt to people with at least %10 expertise 1-) I would start with spike which hits around 400 , he would have 15600 hp 2-) I would hit maul which hits less then 1.5k but hits up to 3k if you have proc. he would have 12 600 3-) I would need to start stacks for shock so I would use volcanic slash twice which hits for 900 for each use. 1800 total. He would have 10800 4-) I would need to use shock after I got 2 stacks of proc from volcanic slash which hits for 3k with procs and when 1minute 15 second cooldown recklessness is used . he would have 7800 hp left 5-) I would need to use low stash which hits for 1200 he would have 6600 6-) I would need to use maul after low stash which hits 3k with proc he would have 3600 7-) I would have stacked 5 of discharge proc which hits 2k on geared ppl he would have 2600. -Prolly I would die twice before I can kill him -If we add cc abilities , insta healing of op I would die 3 times before I can kill him Obviously devolopers realized this fact and they decided to nerf operatives so next patch: Acid Blade: Now provides 30% armor penetration while active. Jarring Strike: This ability now knocks the target down for 1.5 seconds. Hidden Strike: The damage output of this ability has been decreased by approximately 20% to control burst damage and because it was enabling significantly faster than intended kills in PvP. Lets reduces damage output of their hidden strike %20 which hited 7303 at 1.1.0. Result will be 5843 and acid blade will provide less %20 armor pen it will reduce less then 500 damage but lets keep favoring operatives and say it will reduce 1k. Result is 4843 and ofcourse it wont be 4843 , it will be higher. Lets reduce damage output of their backstab 1k due to acid blade nerf. he hit me 3992 at 1.1.0 and he will hit no less then 2992 , roughly 3k. If we return back to the scenario occured at 1.1.0 I got full hp , he approached to me from behind in stealth 1-) he hit 4843 with his opener Hidden Strike . I lost almost %35-40 of my hp with 1 single hit , 10157 hp left 2-) he hit me 3k with his backstab , I had 7157hp on his second hit. 3-) he applied his poisons which ticks for 600 4-) he hit me an other backstab which hits 3k , his poisons keep ticking to me lets call they ticked only 3 times and total damage from poisons is 1800. If we add 3k+1800 = 4800 .I got 2400 hp now. 5-) I died on his next back stab or 1 more tick of each of his dots. Result: he needs to use 1 more backstab to kill me now. The question is how can this patch expected to bring balance to pvp ? Edited January 29, 2012 by kijthae Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ihateyouall Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 When an operative burns all his cooldowns and relics / potions, there's almost nothing you can do to counter it. It'll be this way after the patch as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lJustAlexl Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 (edited) Glad to see one more person realizing the nerf was reasonable and not too hard hitting. The only suggestion I have for you is not to consider PvP in 1v1 situations since, by and large, you will not be alone in warzones or open world pvp. If even one other person is beside you, they will immediately stun the Operative. You'll regain control in one and a half seconds (remember, reduced stun time) and you'll both demolish him. The nerf was needed, but nothing more. Operatives are still strong, but their targets are provided a window of opportunity to retaliate instead of being a guaranteed kill. That's balance. Edited January 29, 2012 by lJustAlexl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackKerras Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Team versus team. They can blow you up in no time flat because they have no other ability to deal damage. They come out, they do an asston of damage, and they are -rapidly- reduced to a pair of smoking boots unless: A) Your team has no Godly idea what they're doing, or B) They got you while you're straggling. Rogues getting the jump on you is universally bad. If you knock one out of stealth, they're hosed, -especially- if they're near healers, or in range of nukers, or in a place where they can be yank-n-ganked or booted into a fire or what-have-you. My Mortal Strike equivalents on my Witch Hunter would almost definitely ensure that I brought someone with me when I went down, but I -always- went down before I was in endgame gear; I could do some neat things, but once I'd made that dude dead, I died also. Basically, I consider ops as being there to knock down and kill a healer, then die themselves. They can neutralize one dangerous enemy, and if they're lucky, or the team they're up against is god-awful, they'll get away with their lives. If they're healing spec, their damage is garbage but their survivability is pretty hardcore. That's a decent tradeoff. They're still a stealth class, but they're way less good at being ganky and way more good at not becoming an unpleasant smear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ojas Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Hello dear community. Here is clearly what happened. He got 16k hp , around %12 expertise. He is an operative from my guild I got 15230 hp and %11 expertise. Im playing assasin. I got full hp , he approached to me from behind in stealth 1-) he hit 7303 with his opener Hidden Strike . I lost almost %50 of my hp with 1 single hit , 7927 hp left 2-) he hit me 3992 with his backstab , I had 3935 hp on his second hit. 3-) he applied his poisons which ticks for 600 4-) I died on his third backstab Lets see what I could do to him if i was at behind.All damage calculated here is dealt to people with at least %10 expertise 1-) I would start with spike which hits around 400 , he would have 15600 hp 2-) I would hit maul which hits less then 1.5k but hits up to 3k if you have proc. he would have 12 600 3-) I would need to start stacks for shock so I would use volcanic slash twice which hits for 900 for each use. 1800 total. He would have 10800 4-) I would need to use shock after I got 2 stacks of proc from volcanic slash which hits for 3k with procs and when 1minute 15 second cooldown recklessness is used . he would have 7800 hp left 5-) I would need to use low stash which hits for 1200 he would have 6600 6-) I would need to use maul after low stash which hits 3k with proc he would have 3600 7-) I would have stacked 5 of discharge proc which hits 2k on geared ppl he would have 2600. -Prolly I would die twice before I can kill him -If we add cc abilities , insta healing of op I would die 3 times before I can kill him Obviously devolopers realized this fact and they decided to nerf operatives so next patch: Acid Blade: Now provides 30% armor penetration while active. Jarring Strike: This ability now knocks the target down for 1.5 seconds. Hidden Strike: The damage output of this ability has been decreased by approximately 20% to control burst damage and because it was enabling significantly faster than intended kills in PvP. Lets reduces damage output of their hidden strike %20 which hited 7303 at 1.1.0. Result will be 5843 and acid blade will provide less %20 armor pen it will reduce less then 500 damage but lets keep favoring operatives and say it will reduce 1k. Result is 4843 and ofcourse it wont be 4843 , it will be higher. Lets reduce damage output of their backstab 1k due to acid blade nerf. he hit me 3992 at 1.1.0 and he will hit no less then 2992 , roughly 3k. If we return back to the scenario occured at 1.1.0 I got full hp , he approached to me from behind in stealth 1-) he hit 4843 with his opener Hidden Strike . I lost almost %35-40 of my hp with 1 single hit , 10157 hp left 2-) he hit me 3k with his backstab , I had 7157hp on his second hit. 3-) he applied his poisons which ticks for 600 4-) he hit me an other backstab which hits 3k , his poisons keep ticking to me lets call they ticked only 3 times and total damage from poisons is 1800. If we add 3k+1800 = 4800 .I got 2400 hp now. 5-) I died on his next back stab or 1 more tick of each of his dots. Result: he needs to use 1 more backstab to kill me now. The question is how can this patch expected to bring balance to pvp ? 1 your are lying. 2 you let him open on you from stealth 3 you didn't /stun /walk to teammates HERE is the fact. 1500 Cunning and both champion weapons = hidden strike = 2381 - 2477 backstab = 1598 - 1614 shiv = 1486 - 1560 laceration = 1502 - 1565 Full champ pvp gear gives ~ 36.00% crit chance 70.00% crit multiplier a good solid rotation would be 1 hidden strike, 1 backstab, 2 shivs and 3 laccerations. That is an average of 11681.5 damage with crit chance 11681.5*1.7*.36+11681.5*1.0*.64 = 14625.25 Without any armor mitigation. Assume 20% armor mitigation. That's 11700 damage. From a melee stealth class that requires attacking from behind. Has stealth that is not useful on any of the objectives in a warzone has no closer abilities and armor sets with 4 piece bonuses that are useless. so please ****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ojas Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 (edited) Hello dear community. Here is clearly what happened. He got 16k hp , around %12 expertise. He is an operative from my guild I got 15230 hp and %11 expertise. Im playing assasin. I got full hp , he approached to me from behind in stealth 1-) he hit 7303 with his opener Hidden Strike . I lost almost %50 of my hp with 1 single hit , 7927 hp left 2-) he hit me 3992 with his backstab , I had 3935 hp on his second hit. 3-) he applied his poisons which ticks for 600 4-) I died on his third backstab Lets see what I could do to him if i was at behind.All damage calculated here is dealt to people with at least %10 expertise 1-) I would start with spike which hits around 400 , he would have 15600 hp 2-) I would hit maul which hits less then 1.5k but hits up to 3k if you have proc. he would have 12 600 3-) I would need to start stacks for shock so I would use volcanic slash twice which hits for 900 for each use. 1800 total. He would have 10800 4-) I would need to use shock after I got 2 stacks of proc from volcanic slash which hits for 3k with procs and when 1minute 15 second cooldown recklessness is used . he would have 7800 hp left 5-) I would need to use low stash which hits for 1200 he would have 6600 6-) I would need to use maul after low stash which hits 3k with proc he would have 3600 7-) I would have stacked 5 of discharge proc which hits 2k on geared ppl he would have 2600. -Prolly I would die twice before I can kill him -If we add cc abilities , insta healing of op I would die 3 times before I can kill him Obviously devolopers realized this fact and they decided to nerf operatives so next patch: Acid Blade: Now provides 30% armor penetration while active. Jarring Strike: This ability now knocks the target down for 1.5 seconds. Hidden Strike: The damage output of this ability has been decreased by approximately 20% to control burst damage and because it was enabling significantly faster than intended kills in PvP. Lets reduces damage output of their hidden strike %20 which hited 7303 at 1.1.0. Result will be 5843 and acid blade will provide less %20 armor pen it will reduce less then 500 damage but lets keep favoring operatives and say it will reduce 1k. Result is 4843 and ofcourse it wont be 4843 , it will be higher. Lets reduce damage output of their backstab 1k due to acid blade nerf. he hit me 3992 at 1.1.0 and he will hit no less then 2992 , roughly 3k. If we return back to the scenario occured at 1.1.0 I got full hp , he approached to me from behind in stealth 1-) he hit 4843 with his opener Hidden Strike . I lost almost %35-40 of my hp with 1 single hit , 10157 hp left 2-) he hit me 3k with his backstab , I had 7157hp on his second hit. 3-) he applied his poisons which ticks for 600 4-) he hit me an other backstab which hits 3k , his poisons keep ticking to me lets call they ticked only 3 times and total damage from poisons is 1800. If we add 3k+1800 = 4800 .I got 2400 hp now. 5-) I died on his next back stab or 1 more tick of each of his dots. Result: he needs to use 1 more backstab to kill me now. The question is how can this patch expected to bring balance to pvp ? operative is easy to counter. stand up. stun walk away. ****. Edited January 29, 2012 by Ojas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niaoru Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 (edited) Backstab has 9 second CD, just sayin. Edit: Though I do agree we needed to be nerfed. Just wanted to clarify that his supposed second backstab before you could do anything at all would have had to occur 9 seconds after his first one. Edited January 29, 2012 by Niaoru Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kijthae Posted January 29, 2012 Author Share Posted January 29, 2012 (edited) 1 your are lying. 2 you let him open on you from stealth 3 you didn't /stun /walk to teammates HERE is the fact. 1500 Cunning and both champion weapons = hidden strike = 2381 - 2477 backstab = 1598 - 1614 shiv = 1486 - 1560 laceration = 1502 - 1565 Full champ pvp gear gives ~ 36.00% crit chance 70.00% crit multiplier a good solid rotation would be 1 hidden strike, 1 backstab, 2 shivs and 3 laccerations. That is an average of 11681.5 damage with crit chance 11681.5*1.7*.36+11681.5*1.0*.64 = 14625.25 Without any armor mitigation. Assume 20% armor mitigation. That's 11700 damage. From a melee stealth class that requires attacking from behind. Has stealth that is not useful on any of the objectives in a warzone has no closer abilities and armor sets with 4 piece bonuses that are useless. so please ****. Lie ? Just a random video 1453 cunning Good try. Edited January 29, 2012 by kijthae Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimsane Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 operative is easy to counter. stand up. stun walk away. ****. lol. So basically if this class gets near you when you're solo, your only option is to run away while stunning him, but that's fine and balanced? That's what your post reads like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryotknife Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Team versus team. They can blow you up in no time flat because they have no other ability to deal damage. They come out, they do an asston of damage, and they are -rapidly- reduced to a pair of smoking boots unless: A) Your team has no Godly idea what they're doing, or B) They got you while you're straggling. Rogues getting the jump on you is universally bad. If you knock one out of stealth, they're hosed, -especially- if they're near healers, or in range of nukers, or in a place where they can be yank-n-ganked or booted into a fire or what-have-you. My Mortal Strike equivalents on my Witch Hunter would almost definitely ensure that I brought someone with me when I went down, but I -always- went down before I was in endgame gear; I could do some neat things, but once I'd made that dude dead, I died also. Basically, I consider ops as being there to knock down and kill a healer, then die themselves. They can neutralize one dangerous enemy, and if they're lucky, or the team they're up against is god-awful, they'll get away with their lives. If they're healing spec, their damage is garbage but their survivability is pretty hardcore. That's a decent tradeoff. They're still a stealth class, but they're way less good at being ganky and way more good at not becoming an unpleasant smear. with your rogue analogy, rogues could not stunlock people to death. They could control people for a long time, but it still takes them 10+ seconds (more than likely in the 15-20 second range if you are afk) to kill you. when rogues could kill someone in under 10 seconds, they got nerfed hard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kijthae Posted January 29, 2012 Author Share Posted January 29, 2012 operative is easy to counter. stand up. stun walk away. ****. All classes are easy to counter if they have crap gear and you have full pvp gear. however when you have equal gear , you have no option provided as " stand up " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natharon Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Lie ? Just a random video 1453 cunning Good try. Congrats you found a random video of a pre adrenal nerf operative tooling on an undergeared player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neurosisxeno Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 lol. So basically if this class gets near you when you're solo, your only option is to run away while stunning him, but that's fine and balanced? That's what your post reads like. All of Concealment Operatives damage is front loaded. Once that initial rotation ends, they have almost nothing. If you stun them and get some distance, you can probably turn the tide of the fight since you will have full resolve and a substantially higher damage output. The OP's argument is that if he stands there like an idiot and doesn't do anything someone can kill him fast, so it's clearly imbalanced. Let that exact thought sink into your head, if it sounds reasonable to you, god help you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panzerbase Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 The nerf is too little, so get ready for the juicy tears when they get hit again. Best to do the deed in one fell swoop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apoxie Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 (edited) Lie ? Just a random video 1453 cunning Good try. Or this one, which is more realistic: He hits for 5k+ many times, 3k+ with other abilities. On level 50'es (he also kill some lowbies, but focus on the other 50'es). It also shows that stunning the OP and running away, even having 2 friends help, doesnt save you from death. Example at 7:29 and forward. And its even an OP-sorcerer thats the aim of this, who uses stun, tries to run away, has help from 2 friends ... and still goes down. TL,DR: Watch from 7:30 - you will se example of Sorc + friends dead, 6k+ opener, 4k+ followup on lvl 50. Edited January 29, 2012 by Apoxie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apoxie Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 I play a scoundrel myself, and i really dont fear the nerf. The class will still be strong in pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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