My thoughts on Marauder PvP

[Alegoss]

But you aren't making a fair comparison either.

 

Its 8v8, not 8v1. If you are working as a team then your team SHOULD be protecting you and they can do so very easily.

 

What am about to present anecdotal evidence, so take that for what it is worth.

 

Yesterday while on civil war, myself and another marauder went to the right node. We happened to be in the same group in the wz so he preded first, then when his ran out I did. We hit the node at the same time as 4 republic, 2 sages, a sent , and a commando. We killed all 4 of them.

 

Yesterday while in hut ball in the enemies pit, I was fighting 2 inquisitors and an operative. I was near death, popped undying and a team mate (inq) showed up and started healing me. I killed all 3 of them.

 

 

im not saying 8v1 im just saying if you get targetted by just 2 when you either trying to slow the carrier down etc etc ur death meat if you dont receive healing

 

while other classes have way more utility to survive

 

yes if you receive healing you are a very big treath to anyone whos opposing you, i agree on that together with CDs you will destroy all three of them like you say

 

but if that Inq wouldnt have showed up you would have to fall back and try to get out of combat or find a healing buff

 

while other classes cc /knockback/shield whatever you name it and just heal up and move on.

Edited February 1, 2012 by Alegoss

[EasymodeX]

ur death meat if you dont receive healing

 

while other classes have way more utility to survive

 

Other classes have more survival capabilities?

 

.....

[Tilure]

im not saying 8v1 im just saying if you get targetted by just 2 when you either trying to slow the carrier down etc etc ur death meat if you dont receive healing

 

while other classes have way more utility to survive

 

yes if you receive healing you are a very big treath to anyone whos opposing you, i agree on that together with CDs you will destroy all three of them like you say

 

but if that Inq wouldnt have showed up you would have to fall back and try to get out of combat or find a healing buff

 

while other classes cc /knockback/shield whatever you name it and just heal up and move on.

 

 

I'm sorry but go read the other class forums you'll see people in those forums complaining about not being able to win 4v1,3v1,2v1 as well. This is an argument for UNBALANCING marauders in the FAVOR of MARAUDERS. Not an argument for creating balance.

 

I disagree that other classes have more utility for survive-ability. The marauder is deceiving. Its a low health operator, what I mean by that is that you are often times operating at less the 50% health and this should generally not concern you. I don't know how many times in the first 5-10 secs of a fight I'm below 50% health and my target is still above 70% and they lose. That makes pulling people of to remote corners of the map very easy btw.

 

If you are part of an organized group who is really playing as a team then when you get targeted by 2 or more players from the other team your tank SHOULD guard you and your healer SHOULD heal you. If it so happens that all of the following are on cool down , Undying Rage, Saber Ward, CoP, Force Camo and your healer is too far away or otherwise occupied, or you are part of a PUG and you cannot count on your team actually assisting you. Then yes you might die in under 10 secs, but I don't see how you could claim this is unbalanced.

 

again more anecdotal evidence.

 

in my experience a large portion of the time, when fighting 3v1 if one of those 3 isn't a healer I can kill my target and escape.

 

in my experience 4 v 1 (or more) I can survive and escape at least 50% of the time.

 

in my experience a vast majority of the time 2v1 I can kill my target and escape (even if he has a healer), and if one of them isn't a healer, at least 50% of the time I can kill both of them.

 

in my experience, my preferred target is DPS BH/Commandos, they are by far the easiest kill a marauder can make, its a joke when you fight a bad one, and only a small challenge when you fight a good one. Heal specced you can force them to turtle and if you're lucky kill them, but they can't hurt you for the most part.

 

in my experience, sorcs/consulars are my second easiest kill. A good one is a challenge (which is fun) a bad one is only slightly less challenging then a BH/Commando. Heal specced they will probably just cc and try to run away, its generally pretty drawn out but you can kill them with out help if they continue to try and run instead of just heal through it.

 

This is all within the context of WZ pvp. When fighting a premade or a group of players who recognize how to play the WZ of choice and that team work usually results in a win, the only choice you have AS ANY PLAYER is to work with your team OR try and isolate a player on the other team.

 

I bring up sorcs/consulars and bh/commandos because there is so much QQ about how easy they are to play and how much more damage they do then us.

[comeonucrazyguy]

I love these threads. Here's the deal:

 

If you think Marauders suck, no one can use them, they need cc, blah blah blah. Ok, great. Take a look at all the folks that KNOW HOW TO USE THEIR MARAUDER and stop for a second. If there are people out there actually having success, could it be I'm just lousy with it? It's nothing to be ashamed of, I'm a lousy healer. I don't stress about it, constantly fling out 'this class sucks, it needs to have cc', I just play my other classes that I enjoy and am better at more. Is that wrong? I don't think so.

 

Marauder is my main, I loooove it. If you don't or if you're lousy, play something else. Why is that so hard?

[Hoseman]

Snare, AOE mez, root on charge, and yes force choke counts since it does damage. Up to 4k in rage spec, actually. In specs you have a semi-passive snare in Anni, extra roots in Carn, and a 10m snare in Rage.

 

We don't need CC. Other classes need CC so we don't faceroll them. Marauders gain from anti-CC.

 

 

Why do you want CC so badly? Most other classes don't get passive run speed boosts, charge, minicharge x2, combat stealth, almost-permanent defensive cooldowns, spam interrupts, high DPS without casttime / channel abilities, random miss debuffs. Zzz. All these capabilities are things that bypass CC or sustain us through CC.

 

If you have all these tools, why do you want a stun? You jelly?

 

Ok lets start off by you combining all three specs into one super tree. Snare's /= CC Especially with the inherent mass amount of knockbacks that people are capable of.

 

 

Stuns, Force Sprint, Force Pull, Harpoon leading into another stun, Force Push, 30m aoe Blind grenade.

 

I dont even... Really? I ask for a stun and you cant understand why?

[EasymodeX]

Snare's /= CC Especially with the inherent mass amount of knockbacks that people are capable of.

 

Snare = CC. Get over it.

 

Stuns, Force Sprint, Force Pull, Harpoon leading into another stun, Force Push, 30m aoe Blind grenade.

 

Stop trying to solo 1v5. I can't even do 1v5. The best I do is like 1v3 against players that are mildly, but not completely, retarded.

 

 

I dont even... Really? I ask for a stun and you cant understand why?

 

Asking for a stun on a Marauder is like asking for a [NUKEEMAIN] button.

 

It's really not necessary, except for the bads that want to feel better about themselves.

[Hoseman]

Snare = CC. Get over it.

 

 

 

Stop trying to solo 1v5. I can't even do 1v5. The best I do is like 1v3 against players that are mildly, but not completely, retarded.

 

 

 

 

Asking for a stun on a Marauder is like asking for a [NUKEEMAIN] button.

 

It's really not necessary, except for the bads that want to feel better about themselves.

 

Since when is a stun a nuke?

 

Where in my post did i say i was trying to 1 v 5, i was listing every other class CC's that exist in the game.

 

I dont need to feel better about myself, because i dont think im bad, i think your lack of actual feedback to my comment's is enough to prove it so.

 

Lets just agree to disagree i guess. You can like the marauder how it is and it can stay the same. I can ask for a Stun.

 

lets first try and get you to make sense....

Edited February 1, 2012 by Hoseman

[EasymodeX]

Where in my post did i say i was trying to 1 v 5, i was listing every other class CC's that exist in the game.

 

You don't get hit by every other class's CCs that exist in the game unless you're actually fighting every other class in the game which means you're fighting a 1v5.

 

So, stop fighting 1v5 and you won't get hit by 10 CCs. It's rather simple.

 

Also, what do you think enemies feel when they get rooted, then snared, then interrupted, then interrupted, then mezzed, then stunned, then interrupted, then snared, then rooted?

 

 

What part of "Marauders don't need stuns to compete" do you fail to understand?

 

Is this a contest of "they have it so we should have it too"? We have Undying Rage, so Sorcs should get undying rage too? Five seconds of near immunity to heal themselves? "Just because they have it" is a terrible argument. "Just because Marauders need *something*" is almost as bad an argument.

 

There's damn near zero reason a Marauder needs a random stun. It will barely improve a Marauder's ability to kill ****, and will only bait nerfs.

[IcyFisty]

Do not cast aside carnage so easily. Kib's guide says it all -> Gore+ ravage as well as a guaranteed crit for force scream everytime you do it (if you're doing it right) as well as roots for both ravage and deadly throw are amazing for PvP, especially huttball.

 

I'm considering taking a couple weeks to see how annihilation does, but I'm not changing until I'm satisfied with my gear.

[EasymodeX]

Carnage is pretty terrible for pugging. The damage is the least bursty of all 3 trees -- you lose significant DPS for time spent out of contact. For Anni or Rage, you only lose a fraction of the damage. This means that you can't do much kiting, and you cannot suffer much kiting.

 

That, combined with the lack of durability in the Carnage tree means you must have a dedicated healer, and the utility that Carn provides tends to only be needed against a premade. So premade vs. premade, Carn becomes viable. For anything else, it's a poor choice (unless you really, really, really, really want to root the ball carrier through resolve).

[IcyFisty]

I disagree. With force charge, overwhelm on ravage, the roots on deadly saber and crippling slash I find that if I can stay in melee range with most ranged kiters. If I can't it is because I have made a mistake in my progression. And by definition, if I can stay in melee range, I can apply full damage. Edited February 1, 2012 by IcyFisty

[Ekryth]

 

Squishy ? Stealth, Undying Rage, AoE Fear, Predation, Saber Ward. You can escape 1v5 situations easy with upgraded Predation.

 

 

Force Camo is such a situational ability I almost wouldn't count it.. Anyone with half a brain or a sorc/sin will be able to catch and kill you so easily right after your 4sec stealth breaks anyway. It's a poor excuse of an escape tactic. You HAVE to use the environment to actually get away while using it - and then you HAVE to be able to use the heal spawns within the WZ maps..

 

Sure, Saber ward is nice - I know juggs also get this and I think sins get something very similar with a shorter cooldown.

 

AOE fear - many classes get aoe CC, so don't kid yourself on that one..

 

I swear to God, Obfuscate just seems straight broken.... This is one reason why I need a f"n combat log Bioware!! IDK how many times I've hit this ability and it seems like the targets accuracy isn't reduced at all - their very next attack hits me... lol?

 

Undying rage is a LAST resort move. It's useful at one exact moment in the fight and that's it. By using this ability, you are either planning on killing the player you're attacking while it's up or just delaying death. I know it can be used for huttball capping - grats.

 

The problem I'm finding is that once your cooldowns are up: you are dead, period. I'm mainly having an issue with stealthers though. Their ability to somehow not die while I am attacking them with almost all of my defensive abilities used is mind boggling to me... what's worse is that they can simply stealth > quickly heal where I can't see them and re-attack me within a minute. Now, I most likely no cooldowns and he gets a fresh start at killing me.

Edited February 1, 2012 by Ekryth

[OpenConflict]

Marauders are very strong. Only thing I think that needs to be fixed is the CD on Unleash 2m in this CC heavy game makes it useless pretty much

 

and you shouldn't be getting kited on marauder if you are half good, so many ways to counter it

 

Broke my record today 429k damage, and I am nothing like some of these marauders I have been hearing about

Edited February 1, 2012 by OpenConflict

[Pappus]

Force Camo is such a situational ability I almost wouldn't count it.. Anyone with half a brain or a sorc/sin will be able to catch and kill you so easily right after your 4sec stealth breaks anyway. It's a poor excuse of an escape tactic. You HAVE to use the environment to actually get away while using it - and then you HAVE to be able to use the heal spawns within the WZ maps..

 

Sure, Saber ward is nice - I know juggs also get this and I think sins get something very similar with a shorter cooldown.

 

AOE fear - many classes get aoe CC, so don't kid yourself on that one..

 

I swear to God, Obfuscate just seems straight broken.... This is one reason why I need a f"n combat log Bioware!! IDK how many times I've hit this ability and it seems like the targets accuracy isn't reduced at all - their very next attack hits me... lol?

 

Undying rage is a LAST resort move. It's useful at one exact moment in the fight and that's it. By using this ability, you are either planning on killing the player you're attacking while it's up or just delaying death. I know it can be used for huttball capping - grats.

 

The problem I'm finding is that once your cooldowns are up: you are dead, period. I'm mainly having an issue with stealthers though. Their ability to somehow not die while I am attacking them with almost all of my defensive abilities used is mind boggling to me... what's worse is that they can simply stealth > quickly heal where I can't see them and re-attack me within a minute. Now, I most likely no cooldowns and he gets a fresh start at killing me.

 

I don't want to flame you, but your knowledge about the marauder is rotten to the core.

 

You don't know on what and how obfuscate works and obviously the result will startle you if you randomly throw it on your enemies.

 

Undying rage is also an escape mechanism, but not by itself. AoE fear is one of the strongest AoE CC's in the game. Unlimited targets, short cd, wonderful.

 

Sins get something half as useful as saberward on a shorter CD.

 

You should go through the excellent guides/helps this forums gives and straighten your game and in about two weeks you will be enjoying the strongest class in the game.

[Ekryth]

I don't want to flame you, but your knowledge about the marauder is rotten to the core.

 

You don't know on what and how obfuscate works and obviously the result will startle you if you randomly throw it on your enemies.

 

Undying rage is also an escape mechanism, but not by itself. AoE fear is one of the strongest AoE CC's in the game. Unlimited targets, short cd, wonderful.

 

Sins get something half as useful as saberward on a shorter CD.

 

You should go through the excellent guides/helps this forums gives and straighten your game and in about two weeks you will be enjoying the strongest class in the game.

 

 

*sigh* My knowledge of the mara class is rotten to the core? Sure, ok bud...

 

Obfuscate

Instant

Cooldown: 60s

Range: 4 m

Obscures the target's vision, reducing its melee and ranged accuracy by 90% for 6 seconds.

 

^

What I am saying is that I have used this vs. other mara, juggs, sins, ops, as well as snipers and bh's and their accuracy does not seem to be reduced at all. By reducing their accuracy they shouldn't be able to hit me with attacks, right?

 

Yes, of course, you can use Undying rage > force camo > predation > then what? Run frantically to a heal spawn? If it's not up, you die anyway, and that was my point. Undying rage is a LAST resort move..at least in a situation where you do not know whether you will be getting any type of healing after using it.

 

Yea, AOE fear is powerful, but what I said was that others get AOE CC abilities as well -and it is not some mara exclusive ability - that was my point.

 

Sure saber ward protects you from force and tech attacks by 25% but the sin version does not, but it's cooldown is 1min shorter ... which is a trade-off, either way this type of ability is not mara exclusive - which was my point.

 

I know how to play the mara class very well. I honestly don't know how players like you can come on here and make such vauge statements of superiority of gameplay. For all you know, I could be a much better mara player than you.

[Deviltreh]

Snare = CC. Get over it.

 

 

 

Stop trying to solo 1v5. I can't even do 1v5. The best I do is like 1v3 against players that are mildly, but not completely, retarded.

 

 

 

 

Asking for a stun on a Marauder is like asking for a [NUKEEMAIN] button.

 

It's really not necessary, except for the bads that want to feel better about themselves.

 

Snare = CC? It has no effect whatsoever on healer, ranged dps and juggernauts, who will just charge back on target and stay on target, idiot.

[Tilure]

Snare = CC? It has no effect whatsoever on healer, ranged dps and juggernauts, who will just charge back on target and stay on target, idiot.

 

CC is short for Crowd Control.

 

Impairing movement is a form of crowd control.

 

There are 2 flavors of cc hard and soft.

 

soft are ccs that don't fully impair something or that break on damage (snares, soft stuns, slows)

 

Hard cc is something that complete incapacitates the target even while taking damage.

 

At least that is usually how the terms are used in discussion, I'm sure there isn't a manual on it anywhere.

[AcaciaDragon]

Snare = CC? It has no effect whatsoever on healer, ranged dps and juggernauts, who will just charge back on target and stay on target, idiot.

 

A Snare prevents that healer from running away effectively as a marauder the more uptime we have on a target the better. All 3 of the healer classes have a Knockback. The less time you spend chasing a Healer the better.

[Kormarf]

*sigh* My knowledge of the mara class is rotten to the core? Sure, ok bud...

 

Obfuscate

Instant

Cooldown: 60s

Range: 4 m

Obscures the target's vision, reducing its melee and ranged accuracy by 90% for 6 seconds.

 

^

What I am saying is that I have used this vs. other mara, juggs, sins, ops, as well as snipers and bh's and their accuracy does not seem to be reduced at all. By reducing their accuracy they shouldn't be able to hit me with attacks, right?

 

Yes, of course, you can use Undying rage > force camo > predation > then what? Run frantically to a heal spawn? If it's not up, you die anyway, and that was my point. Undying rage is a LAST resort move..at least in a situation where you do not know whether you will be getting any type of healing after using it.

 

Yea, AOE fear is powerful, but what I said was that others get AOE CC abilities as well -and it is not some mara exclusive ability - that was my point.

 

Sure saber ward protects you from force and tech attacks by 25% but the sin version does not, but it's cooldown is 1min shorter ... which is a trade-off, either way this type of ability is not mara exclusive - which was my point.

 

I know how to play the mara class very well. I honestly don't know how players like you can come on here and make such vauge statements of superiority of gameplay. For all you know, I could be a much better mara player than you.

 

 

Just a note on Obfuscate, its only ranged and melee accuracy. Any force, tech, or elemental damage will be unaffected and most specs have atleast a few, using your examples juggs have force scream/smash same with marauders, sins I know use quite a few force spells in their damage rotation, ops are almost entirely tech damage so it wont work on them, as for BHs if they are pyro spec then obfuscate wont do a thing, and I can't speak for snipers as I have no clue how they work.

[Kugalojan]

yer i created a marauder recently. So far i love it, the game play is fantastic, will most likely be my main

[mufutiz]

the reason marauders require you to be a better player and have better gear is because they are disadvantaged by design in a range biased game, built around cheesy survival cooldowns.

 

That's the essence of why they are hard to play.

 

I love how pseude elitists and people who can't accept being beaten by a better player in a duel, always try to twist and turn words.

 

A lot of people complaining about the class are probably not 50 yet. Sub 40's the class is pretty much garbage aside the admittedly decent group utilizy.

Edited February 2, 2012 by mufutiz