Force Speed should be removed from the game

[WesleyJanson]

another worthless "nerf this because i lost" thread. I think we should really start considering bans for people that call for nerfs. Not only from the forums but a 72 hour ban just for suggesting ridiculous nerfs like this clown is doing.

 

 

that seems fairly extreme

 

 

 

especially since by your own suggestion that would nerf my ability to post so for calling for a nerf you'd get banned too

 

 

 

Not so nice now is it

[Daedricshots]

that seems fairly extreme

 

 

 

especially since by your own suggestion that would nerf my ability to post so for calling for a nerf you'd get banned too

 

 

 

Not so nice now is it

 

That made absolutely zero sense just like this entire thread.

 

Of all the things you could ask to be nerfed you choose force speed. I dont think i could find in 100 years of searching through google a big enough FACEPALM picture to suffice for this amount of "dumb" in a complaint regarding this game.

[fungihoujo]

Uh I'm not sure what you're trying to say here, because it seems like it'd be just the same as a warrior/knight giving up force leap for 3 force speeds on lower cds than the force leap

 

 

 

 

Could you clarify what you're trying to say here first? If it's just "force leap is op too" I'm not disagreeing, I'll just respond the same way I did earlier when this was brought up, "that's a different thread but you're welcome to make that one and I'll be sure to post in there, this thread is about force speed though"

 

OK... so force speed is OP right?

 

So is force leap right?

 

So is jet charge right?

 

So is stealth right?

 

So is grapple right?

 

Point is, abilities stop being 'OP' when multiple classes have a certain ability to equalize it.

 

 

 

My point is, Force Leap is by default half the CD- and you can get additional leap abilities.

 

Sorcs can't get multiple force speeds- why should they lose a 2 second run away ability on a 30 second CD- when 2 melee ACs have at the least a force leap, with potential for more, on half the CD, or less. Another melee AC has force speed too, and stealth for opening. A range/melee combine has a leap and a pull...

 

The only class that doesn't have some sort of easy distance narrower as far as I know is the Op- BUT, they have stealth for starting, and vanish for when things go bad.

 

 

It's extremely problematic that you're trying to say Force Speed is OP if compared to NO ABILITIES AT ALL.

 

Which is why I was comparing.

 

It is NOT OP because it is the gap widener for the class that needs a gap widener the most- the other being Ops but they get their own- vanish.

 

 

Fine, no force speed? Give us vanish and stealth. Or leaps. Only trade that would make little sense is a leap and grapple- as we don't need to pull enemies to us ever.

[WesleyJanson]

Stealth says hi?

 

 

 

While stealth makes you invisible it doesn't widen the gap as quickly as force speed does, in addition to the fact that any kind of AOE damage unstealths you, you can still be seen while stealthed if you're close enough to people, and some classes have abilities that unstealth people that you would only ever use if someone was stealthed, unlike the abilities that counter speed (stuns, etc) that you use on other people as well as just people using force speed.

[LogicalPremise]

Does the job that other talents should be doing and is way too overpowered, no other class has such an easy escape ability whenever they find themselves out of position or outnumbered

 

Let's see.

 

Are the other classes wearing cloth? No.

 

Do the other classes melt like cotton candy in an inferno when they get taken down? No.

 

Are the other classes in possession of grapple, knockdown, cc, and stun, all of which nullify FS? Yes.

 

Do the ranged classes rely on mobility? Nope, they are ranged. How about the melee classes? Oh look, they all have stealth or jump abilities.

 

Please explain to us how your inability to deal with a TWO SECOND speed boost that can be countered literally by any class in the game is "OP".

[Chiricahua]

The only good thing about force speed is running to the goal line in huttball. I hate huttball. So, if you want to strip it fine. In my opinion, for open world pvp, it should have the speed of SWG, and also a long duration with points in the talent tree. In SWG a jedi with maxed force speed could run as fast as a speeder for about 1 kilometer. Put that in your pipe and smoke it Mr. Nerf Man.

[Raijinvince]

While stealth makes you invisible it doesn't widen the gap as quickly as force speed does, in addition to the fact that any kind of AOE damage unstealths you, you can still be seen while stealthed if you're close enough to people, and some classes have abilities that unstealth people that you would only ever use if someone was stealthed, unlike the abilities that counter speed (stuns, etc) that you use on other people as well as just people using force speed.

 

bahaha. I think it widens the gap a little more since you become INVISIBLE and therefor aren't susceptible to all the counters that force speed has (stuns, roots, etc.). I will GLADLY trade force speed for vanish. Do it nao.

Edited January 29, 2012 by Raijinvince

[fungihoujo]

While stealth makes you invisible it doesn't widen the gap as quickly as force speed does, in addition to the fact that any kind of AOE damage unstealths you, you can still be seen while stealthed if you're close enough to people, and some classes have abilities that unstealth people that you would only ever use if someone was stealthed, unlike the abilities that counter speed (stuns, etc) that you use on other people as well as just people using force speed.

 

Uh, so basically, l2p issue?

 

Good rogues have always had to deal with aoe- and most aoe in this game has a big red or blue circle telling you 'hey stupid, don't step here!' even the BH's flare ability which is solely to find stealthers- like, really, the ability is so obvious.

 

Stealth isn't meant to close gaps, it's meant to give you the ability to start a fight whenever you want to. Getting close to people while stealthed... while, that's again your problem, most rogues know how to sneak up on people just fine.

 

 

 

Let's see though... sorcs have one run away on a 30 sec CD- you can't use your force leap, grapple or rocket jump then? Good pvpers know the enemy class and know to save their abilities to counter predictable moves. Force speed to get away is extremely predictable- you can stop it easily. In fact, it's one of the only abilities for closing gaps/getting away where there's an obvious target you can see and stop.

 

You can't stop leaps, or grapple, and you can't stop stealth unless you know they're there, and even then it's generally firing blindly around.

[fungihoujo]

Welcome to 15 pages of this thread

 

 

 

Go back and read the exact same thing that I'd end up posting if I responded to this the way you wanted

 

So, basically this is OP admitting he has nothing at all once he realizes other classes have their own distance closers as well.

 

/thread

 

Read up on some of the class abilities of other classes before you make a whine thread please.

[WesleyJanson]

Uh, so basically, l2p issue?

 

Good rogues have always had to deal with aoe- and most aoe in this game has a big red or blue circle telling you 'hey stupid, don't step here!' even the BH's flare ability which is solely to find stealthers- like, really, the ability is so obvious.

 

Stealth isn't meant to close gaps, it's meant to give you the ability to start a fight whenever you want to. Getting close to people while stealthed... while, that's again your problem, most rogues know how to sneak up on people just fine.

 

 

 

Let's see though... sorcs have one run away on a 30 sec CD- you can't use your force leap, grapple or rocket jump then? Good pvpers know the enemy class and know to save their abilities to counter predictable moves. Force speed to get away is extremely predictable- you can stop it easily. In fact, it's one of the only abilities for closing gaps/getting away where there's an obvious target you can see and stop.

 

You can't stop leaps, or grapple, and you can't stop stealth unless you know they're there, and even then it's generally firing blindly around.

 

 

 

 

Are we talking about the stealth escape ability that's usable in combat or just stealth in general?

 

 

 

Because I think there might be a misunderstanding between us right now

[Ntranced]

I'll take the ability to stealth - in COMBAT for gods sake - over force speed any day of the week.

 

"Oh noes, I'm getting killed.. oh wait I know, I'll just go invisible". The stupidest skill in the game is the ability to stealth while in combat.

 

OP needs to L2P.

[WesleyJanson]

So, basically this is OP admitting he has nothing at all once he realizes other classes have their own distance closers as well.

 

/thread

 

Read up on some of the class abilities of other classes before you make a whine thread please.

 

 

 

Not even close

 

 

 

This is the op saying that I was asked a question that has been asked a bunch in this thread and I've addressed over and over again.

 

 

 

I'm getting tired of answering the same thing over and over when we're on page 15 already. Go back and read.

[Raijinvince]

If some guy disappears I know exactly where he is, exactly where he just disappeared at. I have about 2 seconds to do something within that area to catch him before he escapes

 

 

 

Now if sorc/sage players in this thread are calling me a baddie for not being able to handle a 2 second run ability, anyone that has a problem with vanish must also be a baddie for not having an aoe ability to use quickly to unstealth people

 

So your argument then is that neither are OP since each have clear counters? I'll concede, then. You're right!

Edited January 29, 2012 by Raijinvince

[BurnsTwoThree]

Wow I've never had a thread get over 2000 views before or 100 posts! Clearly this is an issue that BioWare should address since it's as sensitive a topic as it is.

 

 

 

I feel like I really accomplished something today thanks guys

 

 

No, most people think you're being ridiculous and obviously do not know what you're talking about.

 

 

As previously stated, Force Speed has it's benefits and it's counters. Inquisitors/Consulars being the ONLY LIGHT ARMOR CLASS they need an escape mechanic.

 

I apologize that you're not good at something you have interests in doing, but PvP is just not your thing.

[WesleyJanson]

I'll take the ability to stealth - in COMBAT for gods sake - over force speed any day of the week.

 

"Oh noes, I'm getting killed.. oh wait I know, I'll just go invisible". The stupidest skill in the game is the ability to stealth while in combat.

 

OP needs to L2P.

 

 

 

Except operatives don't have a bunch of cc and an AOE knockback root, and also a shield that sucks up all incoming damage in addition to their in combat stealth ability.

[Karthaugh]

Yeah a bunch of sorcs trying to defend force speed, it's really really fail man

 

 

 

Thank god there's someone on my side I thought only sorcs were posting right now

 

Remove force speed from the game, Right. cause assassins/shadows dont need closers, they have that 1 pull you know, if they spec 21 points into kinetic/darkness on a 45 sec cd. Thats more than enough for them. Heeeeell yeah.

 

Now, if you mean "Force speed should be removed from sorcs/sages" I totally agree. There is no reason for a class with the advantage of range to have an in combat sprint. I believe only vanguards, whose damage is done within the same area as assn/shad have the sprint. No range class should have such a thing, since that is why they have 30m range, snares, and roots. Roots, which against a melee, are as effective as a stun, and provide no resolve.

 

So, yes, sorc/sages shouldnt have it, but unless you then give shadows/assassins force leap or similar, you might as well delete that class, since they will never be able to close to combat range, not to mention in Pve.

[BurnsTwoThree]

Except operatives don't have a bunch of cc and an AOE knockback root, and also a shield that sucks up all incoming damage in addition to their in combat stealth ability.

 

The bubble is a small (3k?) shield, if you're being focused by more than one decent player it will be broken almost instantly.

 

Operatives have stuns and an AoE blind. On top of that they have a Vanish which keeps them immune from incoming damage/heals for a few seconds while keeping them in stealth.

And on top of all of this they also have a slow.

Edited January 29, 2012 by BurnsTwoThree

[fungihoujo]

Are we talking about the stealth escape ability that's usable in combat or just stealth in general?

 

 

 

Because I think there might be a misunderstanding between us right now

 

Ops get both a stealth and vanish right? Stealth is what they use to close gaps unnoticed AND start fights on their own terms. Vanish is what they get to escape fights. Yes, you can aoe sometimes to find a stealther- but, you need the same kind of reflexes you'd need to jump to or grapple or root or stun a sorc running away.

 

Two people can argue forever on whether vanish is better than force speed or not- in the case of this thread though, that's the thing- everyone has roughly equal escapes if escape is necessary.

 

Force Speed is also a sorc's only escape- and it gets counter often and easily.

 

How is an escape that can be very easily countersed by multiple classes OP? That's what I want to know. Especially when no other class is missing escapes.

[WesleyJanson]

So your argument then is that neither are OP since each have clear counters? I'll concede, then. You're right!

 

 

 

Um no

 

 

 

My argument is that comparing this here is apples to oranges because stealth is a thing that has its counters, but they're just stealth counters (like the stealth scan ability that I think vanguards/powertechs have), but speed has its counters that are also useful in other areas and are likely to be on cooldown

 

 

And that while stealth classes have the in combat stealth, they don't also have all the other tools that sorcs have at their disposal. So sorcs just cast their shield, then aoe knockback root, and run like hell to survive an encounter that they're losing against 4 other players. Operatives run into 4 players, stealth, and then die horribly to aoe or just get shot at since they're still visible because of their proximity to someone they were just fighting

 

 

Force speed is too good for sorcs to have because of everything else that they have. IF operatives had everything sorcs do you're damn right that in combat stealth would be incredibly op. They don't though, so it isn't.

[suzy_lee]

It's hilarious how many times the OP has tried to defend this point. Force speed is NOT OP, I play an Assassin, most players have sooo many counters for Force Speed, it rarely is an effective escape. Helpful yes, OP NO. If you wanna rage about something, go with stuns, and BTW,,,,stop, just stop:cool:

[WesleyJanson]

No, most people think you're being ridiculous and obviously do not know what you're talking about.

 

 

As previously stated, Force Speed has it's benefits and it's counters. Inquisitors/Consulars being the ONLY LIGHT ARMOR CLASS they need an escape mechanic.

 

I apologize that you're not good at something you have interests in doing, but PvP is just not your thing.

 

 

 

So an aoe knockback root isn't an escape mechanic? What about a shield that sucks up a bunch of damage? What about all their cc abilities?

[WesleyJanson]

Remove force speed from the game, Right. cause assassins/shadows dont need closers, they have that 1 pull you know, if they spec 21 points into kinetic/darkness on a 45 sec cd. Thats more than enough for them. Heeeeell yeah.

 

Now, if you mean "Force speed should be removed from sorcs/sages" I totally agree. There is no reason for a class with the advantage of range to have an in combat sprint. I believe only vanguards, whose damage is done within the same area as assn/shad have the sprint. No range class should have such a thing, since that is why they have 30m range, snares, and roots. Roots, which against a melee, are as effective as a stun, and provide no resolve.

 

So, yes, sorc/sages shouldnt have it, but unless you then give shadows/assassins force leap or similar, you might as well delete that class, since they will never be able to close to combat range, not to mention in Pve.

 

 

 

I've already said earlier in this thread that we should give assassins/shadows force leap, because they DO need a gap closer to be effective, but Force speed shouldn't be it because of its many applications as something other than a gap closer.

 

 

 

I know that feel of melee being useless in pvp bro, I sympathize with shadows/assassins. You should get force leap for force speed. But force speed has got to go.

[WesleyJanson]

It's hilarious how many times the OP has tried to defend this point. Force speed is NOT OP, I play an Assassin, most players have sooo many counters for Force Speed, it rarely is an effective escape. Helpful yes, OP NO. If you wanna rage about something, go with stuns, and BTW,,,,stop, just stop:cool:

 

 

 

I think the only thing hilarious in this thread is that we'd have 20 pages by now if the mods weren't deleting all the personal attacks

 

 

 

It's a good thing I don't take things personally, man there are some angry people on this board.

[fungihoujo]

Um no

 

 

 

My argument is that comparing this here is apples to oranges because stealth is a thing that has its counters, but they're just stealth counters (like the stealth scan ability that I think vanguards/powertechs have), but speed has its counters that are also useful in other areas and are likely to be on cooldown

 

 

And that while stealth classes have the in combat stealth, they don't also have all the other tools that sorcs have at their disposal. So sorcs just cast their shield, then aoe knockback root, and run like hell to survive an encounter that they're losing against 4 other players. Operatives run into 4 players, stealth, and then die horribly to aoe or just get shot at since they're still visible because of their proximity to someone they were just fighting

 

 

Force speed is too good for sorcs to have because of everything else that they have. IF operatives had everything sorcs do you're damn right that in combat stealth would be incredibly op. They don't though, so it isn't.

 

One class has stealth scan- many class have grapples, leaps, etc...

 

Leaps are on as low as 12 second CD, and you can have multiple leaps- if you can't have a 12 second CD off CD, that's entirely your fault.

 

As for just AoEing- many aoes take time to set up or are targetted- looking at sorcs, they have force storm, which isn't instant and you must be still. Or, death field, but, as that's our hardest hitting ability at around 2.5k for a crit with decent gear, it gets used every time it's up for damage.

 

BH stealth finder, if the animation is anything to go by, is far from instant- DfA has a long CD. Melee classes don't have ranged aoe.

 

 

Really, you're looking for these instant, non target, ranged aoe- most are on long CDs, and get used to deal damage- with only one exception being stealth scan.

 

 

 

Compare that one to...

 

12 sec CD force leap, a secondary leap, I think the third leap is friendly only but I'm not honestly sure.

Rocket jump, grapple.

Stealth up and follow, vanish if they just made room to keep hurting you.

Ranged stuns. Ranged snares- not to mention force leap snares, wasting the entirety of a force speed effect.

 

There are many more counters, that likely won't be on CD because they aren't part of regular damage and get saved for just that- escaping Sorcs.... or are on a very low CD like force leap.

[WesleyJanson]

Hey I think my thread was moved to the suggestion box out of the pvp forum

 

 

 

 

Does this mean BioWare is seriously considering my idea that Force Speed should be removed or at least tweaked?