fungihoujo Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 You really need to stop bringing up heavy armor because all dps builds are designed to either penetrate armor or ignore it. I'm sure this will matter later once heavy armor is actually useful but as it stands now unless you spec in tanking abilities (and even then, still pretty damn close to useless) heavy armor doesn't matter at all. My merc wears heavy armor and still melts when I get focused, but if I could just activate an aoe knockback root and then zoom off I'd be fine. Oh, I see, you're one of those people who doesn't know what armour mitigation means... also, that's the only point you could refute in that post? The armour? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roldo Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 This post will contain actual feedback. Sorcs/Sages are definitely not OP. My marauder has been and still does (as an undergeared level 50) **** all over sage faces. They seriously have absolutely no chance against me 1v1 because of resolve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WesleyJanson Posted January 29, 2012 Author Share Posted January 29, 2012 Wow I've been at this for a long time tonight it's already midnight This was a really good discussion though, I'm looking forward to getting back into this tomorrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roldo Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 While I do agree for the sake of survival those abilities are on par with sprint, those abilities can't be used to cheese in huttball, then again any leap ability is just as bad in huttball. Sprint isn't so bad since it only lasts for 2 seconds. If my team isn't filled with handicapped monkeys (it seriously sometimes is..) the light armor class that tries to take the ball gets mutilated within that 2 second time span. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruwe Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 While I do agree for the sake of survival those abilities are on par with sprint, those abilities can't be used to cheese in huttball. It's a game mechanic. Why is everyone so concerned about Sage/Sorc sprinting through a pit of fire and losing half their health? They can only run through one pit in a given carry, not every pit on the map. A Jugg/Guardian can just force leap half the map onto the enemy player who's near where he wants to be and in the process completely avoiding all fire pits., I haven't found any posts screaming about nerfing the force leap.... Please don't use Huttball as an example of a broken skill. You want a broken skill and Huttball in the same sentence, how bout grappling people to your ledge so they insta die and don't get credit for the ball crossing the line? That is an example of a broken skill/mechanic/exploit. Not running through fire to only take half your health in damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roldo Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 It's a game mechanic. Why is everyone so concerned about Sage/Sorc sprinting through a pit of fire and losing half their health? They can only run through one pit in a given carry, not every pit on the map. A Jugg/Guardian can just force leap half the map onto the enemy player who's near where he wants to be and in the process completely avoiding all fire pits., I haven't found any posts screaming about nerfing the force leap.... Please don't use Huttball as an example of a broken skill. You want a broken skill and Huttball in the same sentence, how bout grappling people to your ledge so they insta die and don't get credit for the ball crossing the line? That is an example of a broken skill/mechanic/exploit. Not running through fire to only take half your health in damage. Trying to run through the fire, getting force choked, then catching fire and dying is funnier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ntranced Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 This implies I feel embarrassed though. I don't, in fact if you read earlier I'm quite proud of this thread because it's the most popular thread I've ever had. I also feel like we've opened up a good dialogue in regards to ability balance and this thread being moved to the suggestion box makes me feel like this might be seriously considered. So deleting it would be a bad thing and I'd be very upset. You may feel embarrassed though when you learn a little more about the game, the classes and how each is played. A sorc is an easy kill, despite all the misinformation in this and other threads. At 50 in reasonable (300+ expertise) gear a sorc without guard is just a case of 3 or 4 GCDs for just about any class. The bubble doesn't scale, I cant think of a single class that can't eradicate all of its damage protection in one hit - EXCEPT ANOTHER SORC OR SAGE. It isn't 25% mitigation on damage from all sources or anything like that, it just exists till it has taken 3k+ damage depending on spec and its gone. The AoE KB might as well have around 1 second cast time on it because of the animation, has the worst distance of any KB in the game, you can be back on a sorc after that KB in less than 1 GCD. And lastly, force speed... chances are an operative etc played right has a sorc down to little enough health they can pew pew a sorc to death before they are out of range. Probably nice in Huttball, hardly a game breaker in PvP. Any other class has abilities to gap close or ANY CLASS can use their equally wide array of cc. I very rarely see such a lot of misinformation posted about any class as the sorc. It seems that because they are popular people see a lot of specs around. A classic fail is to assume that sorcs can heal/dps/tank and have all of these abilities. They CAN NOT. They can make some abilities better by putting points in (the AoE KB can be specced for a stun for example) just like any class but they can't have everything. Most of the complaints about sorcs also miss the entire point of most of the utility - it is shared directly with assassin. I've yet to see a thread suggesting they be nerfed but I guess this is how it starts. Finally - I'd hazard a guess the developers put a lot of thought in to how the light armor class could have a tool to use that would allow them range. Your post may be popular but I don't see you gaining a lot of support, hardly any, and when there is support it is bringing up the same old misinformation about sorcs and clouding the issue with other skills. Hence why I address some of them here. However - the reason you don't get a lot of support is primarily because you don't have a good argument to back up your suggestion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schattenhund Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 My main is a pyro merc and i got jumped by an shadow while leveling the other day. please keep force sprint, it is hilarious. he brought me to half hp bevore getting very low himself (stunned, kited, los-ed, aoe pushback/slowed him as it is to be expected). Doted him up, he sprints, explosive darted him. somwhere in the distance under the sun of tatooine in the sand a lonely shadow explodes and toppled over. it was a beautiful sight. so no, everything is fine with "forcewhaaaa". Just learn your own tricks of the trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ntranced Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 You know what really helps, is if every time you see a sorc/sage force speed away from a fight just imagine them screaming "Mommy help me!" in a girly whine as they run off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schattenhund Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 @ntranced: agreed, there should be an optional animation when under 30% hp with waving arms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batslav Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Last 2 seconds only so its fine also 90% of the time u wont escape even if u use it believe me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yinata Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Does the job that other talents should be doing and is way too overpowered, no other class has such an easy escape ability whenever they find themselves out of position or outnumbered Dear God what the hell were they thinking when they made this ability It lasts 2 seconds and has a 30 second cool down, no idea how that is an overpowered ability......Lets just nerf everything then everyone will be totally useless then we can all stand in one place and die in PvP, it will be super fun........Yet another example of why people should L2P and L2StopCrying...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mcfondles Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Does the job that other talents should be doing and is way too overpowered, no other class has such an easy escape ability whenever they find themselves out of position or outnumbered Dear God what the hell were they thinking when they made this ability Notice force speed was given to the two squishiest classes.. coincidence? I think not.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suzy_lee Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 (edited) I've already said earlier in this thread that we should give assassins/shadows force leap, because they DO need a gap closer to be effective, but Force speed shouldn't be it because of its many applications as something other than a gap closer. I know that feel of melee being useless in pvp bro, I sympathize with shadows/assassins. You should get force leap for force speed. But force speed has got to go. Not a bad idea, however I think this would give you much more to rage about, Force Speed can be stunned, however if it was an instant leap of 30 Meters, would that not be more difficult to counter with a stun?, also in Huttball, Force leap could be used to leap over/through flames to score. Careful what you wish for Edited January 29, 2012 by suzy_lee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mossesman Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 I dont agree with the OP. It shouldnt be removed from the game. It should, IMO, be disabled when your carrying the ball in Huttball. Its incredibly lame seeing a Consular/Sorc pop there shield and force run through the firetraps without taking any damage whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lasarith Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Does the job that other talents should be doing and is way too overpowered, no other class has such an easy escape ability whenever they find themselves out of position or outnumbered Dear God what the hell were they thinking when they made this ability Meep Meep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batslav Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 I dont agree with the OP. It shouldnt be removed from the game. It should, IMO, be disabled when your carrying the ball in Huttball. Its incredibly lame seeing a Consular/Sorc pop there shield and force run through the firetraps without taking any damage whatsoever. warriors leap and sorc frienly pulls are much more annoying also speed is enough only to pass trought one vent and unless u combine it with force shroud it wont help at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RowanThursday Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Surely the point is that... using the Force to avoid being attacked is... what Sith Inquisitors do? A Republic Trooper can't dash away from attacks this way, true... but then they're encased in plasteel heavy armour, they don't *need* to. A Sorceror- or Assassin, though, depends upon using their powers to evade attacks, stun their foes, misdirect and dodge, and land as much damage as they can... because they're squishy and quickly buckle if the foe *does* get a bead on them and start hammering them down. To suggest that it's an unfair advantage and ought to be removed is about as fair as for an Inquisitor- or Jedi Consular- to say "I think Troopers' armour ought to be reduced to light, because it's not fair and non-canon that when I hit a mere mundane squaddie with my lightsabre, they don't immediately die as they should." We all have different powers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobNightfall Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 (edited) So when Bioware decided to nerf operatives and smugglers that were owning everyone, it wasn't broken even though bioware fixed it? The nerfed them because their burst was too strong, try actually reading the patch notes. I don't necessarily agree with it, but you're complaining about something everyone but you can deal with and not something that a strong segment of players has a problem with. Learn 2 Play. Edited January 29, 2012 by RobNightfall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ruwe Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 I dont agree with the OP. It shouldnt be removed from the game. It should, IMO, be disabled when your carrying the ball in Huttball. Its incredibly lame seeing a Consular/Sorc pop there shield and force run through the firetraps without taking any damage whatsoever. And it's not lame to be grappled into a fire vent or acid pit? It's not lame to watch a tank that you can't kill anyway, force leap to the top rail in the middle where he has a clear shot to the goal? And they do take damage, maybe someone else is healing as they go, but with no heals, bubbled and sprinting they take half health damage to get through a fire pit. I just don't get why people can't understand that IT IS MEANT TO BE IN HUTTBALL. It is a part of the game mechanic! Just like grapple/force leap/force pull or any other class specific ability that gives a slight advantage in a specific scenario. A bounty hunter might not be able to sprint through the fire but he sure can yank that sage who just did back into the fire... I would say that the only class that I feel got hosed in huttball is the scoundrel/operative. But then again I have played with some who just dominated. It's all about play style/skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenmuir Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 (edited) Just to compare to the other Ranged DPS/Healer Class(Commando/Mercenary): Shield(Insta cast heal, awesome scaling, appliable to others, run speed buff(talented)) -> nothing aoe knockback(20s cooldown, 8m range), with talents immoblizes for up to 5s, unlimited targets -> aoe knockback(30s(20s talented) cooldown, 4m range(8m talented), with 4s slow, max 5 targets speed boost -> nothing 10m 6s slow, 12s cooldown -> nothing 10m Ranged Interupt, 4s(6s talented) lockout, 12s cooldown-> nothing Extrication -> nothing 4s stun 60s cooldown(50s talented), deals damage -> 4s stun 60s cooldown, no damage 3s 50% channeled slow -> nothing or 25 pts in gunnery for 50% channeld slow force armor aoe sleep(talented) -> stock strike single target knockback(talented) in combat rez -> nothing That's a lot of nothing that the other ranged dps/healer class gets. It's also nice that i get to spend talent points to make my abilities have the same effects that sage/sorc get base line. The only thing that commando/mercenary gets base line that sage/sorc doesn't is a 12second 25% damage reduction with a 2 minute cooldown. Your opponent would have to do 12k damage or more in 12seconds for that to be better. The downside is that reactive shield has a 2 minute cooldown, compared to the 20s cooldown on force armor and reactive shield can not be cast on other people. On armor: Most dps classes have ~50% armor reduction, plus the penetration from accuracy, or deal elemental/internal damage, so to say that 30% mitigation vs 15% mitigation is meaningful is about as truthful as saying that sorc/sage has better defense due to having twice the base avoidance chance(10% vs 5%). Edited January 29, 2012 by Kenmuir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Severskij Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) The only thing that commando/mercenary gets base line that sage/sorc doesn't is a 12second 25% damage reduction with a 2 minute cooldown. Yeah, they don't get anything else, sage/sorcs totally deal as much damage as dps-specced commando/mercs. And of course they wear the same armor. Edited February 2, 2012 by Severskij Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordgracy Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Does the job that other talents should be doing and is way too overpowered, no other class has such an easy escape ability whenever they find themselves out of position or outnumbered Dear God what the hell were they thinking when they made this ability MAD and BAD. That is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spootybeaver Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 hahaha you think that makes it ok 4 people should be killing 1 guy, because if that 1 guy wasn't a sorc/sage he isn't getting away Why is this the only class that's allowed to live in situations where he has been outplayed? Ever thought about just letting the sage/sorc go and taking your team of 4-5 people to go complete a PvP objective? The best part about force speed is that, when properly used, you can entice 4-5 people to chase you around while the rest of your team.... WINS THE GAME. Seriously, the first thing you did wrong in PvP was get tunnel vision trying to kill one Sage/sorc. Let them run, they are taking them selves out of the fight giving you and your 4 buddies an opportunity to get back to the actual match. There is no aspect/ability of SWTOR PvP that is so OP that it negates good tactics. If your a good player you can play ANY class well. L2P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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