RugbyPlayer Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 one thing i still cant grasp is that i know BH and Trooper are mirrors Why do they use a different recourse pool? Ammo seems to deplete much faster than heat increases, theres no way two completely different pools can work the exact same way is there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Stig Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 one thing i still cant grasp is that i know BH and Trooper are mirrors Why do they use a different recourse pool? Ammo seems to deplete much faster than heat increases, theres no way two completely different pools can work the exact same way is there? So because you name things different and give them different colors they become different ? Please show me your quantitative analysis of "how one "seems" to deplete much faster ?" Ability costs are the same, with heat...it goes up and your heat venting goes down. With ammo, it depletes...as you deplete your regeneration goes down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ganrax Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 one thing i still cant grasp is that i know BH and Trooper are mirrors Why do they use a different recourse pool? Ammo seems to deplete much faster than heat increases, theres no way two completely different pools can work the exact same way is there? They work the exact same way, just one goes up and the other goes down, and heat is a resource pool of 100 while ammo is a pool of 12. They have the same percentage tiered regen as we do. If you are noticing a difference then it is you, not the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RugbyPlayer Posted January 28, 2012 Author Share Posted January 28, 2012 even if i do nothing but spam flame burst heat generates significantly slower than ammo degenerates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RugbyPlayer Posted January 28, 2012 Author Share Posted January 28, 2012 (edited) abcde Edited January 28, 2012 by RugbyPlayer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ganrax Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 even if i do nothing but spam flame burst heat generates significantly slower than ammo degenerates It's in your head, they cost the same percentage of your resource so they will bring the resource up(and down) the same percentage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zDracor Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 (edited) Not true. Bounty Hunters heat system regens 4% faster, and has a pool 4% larger. Everything that costs 1 cell, creates 8 heat. Therefor 12 cells = 96 heat. This is not the case. They have 100. As for the regen, I forget the exact numbers but their regen would equate to us having 0.625 ammo regen at the highest bracket, where we have 0.60. That plus the animation delays, and lack of pushbacks are pretty silly when all added together. Edited January 28, 2012 by zDracor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordKivlov Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 (edited) Not true. Bounty Hunters heat system regens 4% faster, and has a pool 4% larger. Everything that costs 1 cell, creates 8 heat. Therefor 12 cells = 96 heat. This is not the case. They have 100. As for the regen, I forget the exact numbers but their regen would equate to us having 0.625 ammo regen at the highest bracket, where we have 0.60. That plus the animation delays, and lack of pushbacks are pretty silly when all added together. No it does not. That's bad math on somebodies part. The game calculates it the exact same for both classes, we just have a different GUI. Just look at missle blast or w/e it's called. 25 heat and ours is 3 ammo. The game rounds for UI, not for actual calculations. Edited January 28, 2012 by LordKivlov Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zDracor Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Well if the UI isn't showing decimals wrong, that's the only way it can be wrong. If something costs 2 cells on a trooper, it costs 16 heat on a bounty hunter. 12 cells, 100 heat. 1/6 is not 16% They're meant to have 96 heat, not 100. As for regen. Unless it really is 0.625, and it's show 0.60 incorrectly (no idea why it would, but it's plausible) Because at 0.60 it takes 20 seconds to fill gain 12 cells (assuming staying in the top bracket of regen the whole time) Bounty hunters have 5 heat dissipation per second. That's 20 seconds to lose 100 heat. Once again, 100 heat. Should be 96. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zDracor Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 (edited) No it does not. That's bad math on somebodies part. The game calculates it the exact same for both classes, we just have a different GUI. Just look at missle blast or w/e it's called. 25 heat and ours is 3 ammo. The game rounds for UI, not for actual calculations. Just fired my BH up again. You're correct with that ability, and DFA. However abilities like ion cell/flame burst and stockstrike/rocketpunch are 2 cells/16 heat. Is this just a case of the UI not showing decimals, but actually using them? It just seems ridiculous to not use 96 heat and completely mirror them. Edited January 28, 2012 by zDracor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Achromatis Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Honestly I still cant understand why they didnt just make Trooper resource "Heat" as well. I mean half the abilities dont have to do with a blaster, and Vanguards use pulses which makes more sense for Heat, and every other blaster wielding class doesnt have Ammo... And theyre the only mirror that flips the mechanic around just to look different. Carry-over Mass Effectism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mutee Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 4 heat doesn't really matter, i'm more concerned with death from above being instant while we have to wait 1.5 seconds before it starts firing, making it almost useless in pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zDracor Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Four heat would matter if the regen was extra as well. If the earlier poster is correct in stating the actual ingame calculations factor in the decimal differences, resulting in the same gains, then that's fine. Over a sustained fight that would have netted a significant advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kinvalar Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Just fired my BH up again. You're correct with that ability, and DFA. However abilities like ion cell/flame burst and stockstrike/rocketpunch are 2 cells/16 heat. Is this just a case of the UI not showing decimals, but actually using them? It just seems ridiculous to not use 96 heat and completely mirror them. I play both Powertech and Vanguard and frankly I don't see what the fuss is. The regen % is the same, but BH has a slightly elevated top-end that you should never be entering (just allows BH to go slightly deeper in the resource hole). If you play both classes in the highest regen bracket it actually favors Trooper assuming the values in UI are accurate. In highest bracket it takes 8 ticks to go from 40 heat to 0. In highest bracket (assuming .60 is accurate) it should take only 7 ticks to go from 8 to 12 ammo. Unless I'm missing something I'm happy with how it is currently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batslav Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 (edited) BHs need 30 sec to cool if overheat how troopers work ? never played one of the classes so im just askin Edited January 28, 2012 by Batslav Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airees Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Four heat would matter if the regen was extra as well. If the earlier poster is correct in stating the actual ingame calculations factor in the decimal differences, resulting in the same gains, then that's fine. Over a sustained fight that would have netted a significant advantage. You are correct that BHs have 4% extra heat, however they don't have 4% extra regen. The regen is completely mirrored 8x. However BHs also get a 4% tax on their high cost abilities (as you've talked about already) which somewhat mitigates their extra heat. There is a discrepancy there, but it's extremely tiny and will almost never have any effect. If anything, some guy was talking about regen ticks in another thread and how it appears that BH ticks faster than Trooper. I don't know if there's any truth to this, but if there is that's a much bigger issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mutee Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Four heat would matter if the regen was extra as well. If the earlier poster is correct in stating the actual ingame calculations factor in the decimal differences, resulting in the same gains, then that's fine. Over a sustained fight that would have netted a significant advantage. It doesn't, they both gain 5% of their total resource every second while at max regen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zDracor Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 (edited) It doesn't, they both gain 5% of their total resource every second while at max regen. Yes, we've covered that multiple times. They've just chosen to use a stupid number that requires ridiculous hidden decimals on heat costs, or they haven't balanced it. Either way choosing 100 heat over 96 made things pointlessly more confusing. If their version of ion burst, talented tracer missle etc don't all cost 16.66 heat (hidden decimals) then their PvE DPS rotation is better due to to choosing 100 heat. I would hope that this isn't the case, but they should've just used 96 for clarity. Edited January 28, 2012 by zDracor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batslav Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 what time it takes troopers to recover when out of ammo ? is it 30 sec like BHs need to cool if overheat ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krameriffic Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 And it's not straight up true that they have 4 extra heat either. There are abilities that cost 8, 16, 25, and 33 heat. For those 25 and 33 heat abilities, that translates to no extra heat or 1 extra heat. At the end of the day, the way the regeneration works around the threshold seems like a more likely place for imbalances to occur. I'm not prepared to say they are balanced because when you think about it, having a higher resolution when you float around that the threshold where regen/degen goes from .6 ammo/sec to .36 ammo/sec (or 5 heat/sec to 3 heat/sec you might get some minor advantages in favor of the BH. Over the course of a long raid boss fight, these kinds of changes could net a big difference in performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warkyd Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 (edited) one thing i still cant grasp is that i know BH and Trooper are mirrors Why do they use a different recourse pool? Ammo seems to deplete much faster than heat increases, theres no way two completely different pools can work the exact same way is there? Its different because of rounding. 12 ammo vs 100 heat. 12 x 8.5 = 100 so 1 ammo = 8.5 heat. Just look at how often ability costs for BHs are rounded down. Edited January 29, 2012 by Warkyd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iram Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Just fired my BH up again. You're correct with that ability, and DFA. However abilities like ion cell/flame burst and stockstrike/rocketpunch are 2 cells/16 heat. Is this just a case of the UI not showing decimals, but actually using them? It just seems ridiculous to not use 96 heat and completely mirror them. How about giving troopers the same costs as BH, and just call the resource "ammo" with a pool of 100? Compared to what modern "troopers" carry, 100 rounds instead of 12 sounds more reasonable (though still low). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sudocomm Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 how about for troopers we use energy instead of heat, or ammo. That way you can have 100 energy, and everything works out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimMage Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 How about giving troopers the same costs as BH, and just call the resource "ammo" with a pool of 100? Compared to what modern "troopers" carry, 100 rounds instead of 12 sounds more reasonable (though still low). Because theyre not bullets, theyre energy cells. Full auto costs 2 cells and fires like 50 shots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CioccoLato Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) Im pretty sure that there is something unbalanced, i tryed both commando and mercenary and while merce can always shots 3 Tracer Missle without pass top-heat regen, Commando not.Thats a fact, just try it. 3TM = 39% = Max heat regen, 3 GR = 5 Ammo that put u under MAx ammo(0.36 istaead 0.60) regen for like 0.3/0.5 seconds. But may.. isnt that worth. Edited February 2, 2012 by CioccoLato Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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