Level 49 PVPers: I feel sorry for you :(

[baltman]

In full champion gear I have around 11% bonuses in PvP. I fight a 1v1 against another champion... I do 11% more damage, but he takes 11% less damage. Its a wash. The only thing expertise helps with is healing. Instead of healing 30% less, you heal 19% less. Not sure why people are so hung up on expertise.

[Poor_Grammar]

In full champion gear I have around 11% bonuses in PvP. I fight a 1v1 against another champion... I do 11% more damage, but he takes 11% less damage. Its a wash. The only thing expertise helps with is healing. Instead of healing 30% less, you heal 19% less. Not sure why people are so hung up on expertise.

 

 

Get rid of it and raiders with nightmare drops will dominate pvp without having to put any effort into it. That isn't exactly a better solution at all.

 

That fair to you? Some rank 10 dude kicking some rank 60's *** because the 60 isn't in a guild pushing 16man content? Why even have ranks at all then? Why not just homogenize all gear then?

Edited January 28, 2012 by Poor_Grammar

[Sevvy]

Just be extremely lucky and you'll be fine. Don't be like me and have an inventory full of relics and 200 expertise. Lololol.

[baltman]

Get rid of it and raiders with nightmare drops will dominate pvp without having to put any effort into it. That isn't exactly a better solution at all.

 

Never meant it to be one. Just doing the math since people seem to think the number is 30%. I have no problem with the way the system currently is. I win some battle, I lose some. Can't win them all, as much as some people want it that way.

[AidenPryde]

So you crit on undergeared folks for 3k and non crit a bm for 1500.

 

Hrmm yes I see the confusion. I only use smash when it crits because of my spec so to be more precise 3k on someone without expertise and 1500k crit on BM.

 

So Expertise certainly has a significant effect.

[Aega]

So you are complaining that the people that paid for early access got rewarded by having early access?

 

Common sense dude. The handfull of people who worked their way up early are just that. A handfull of people. Would you make these same complaints in a game like WoW? The early accessers from WoW are so long in the past, and the situation is the same, heavily geared beats ungeared.

 

All I am hearing is that you have some early access envy. Its not that horrific anyway. Its pvp, you win some you lose some. And for people like us who didn't powergrind to 50 with little opposition, the reward will be that much sweeter because its an actual accomplishment.

 

I am in the same boat as you, I will have to face the masses of top level 50s. The difference is that I am not going to burst a bloodvessel over it. Even if you lose a wz you still get a reward. its not like you get nothing for losing.

 

Your simply not understanding me or you just like to argue. I was in early access. As it stands now, if you hit 50 and try to pvp, the warzones/Ilum are filled with people sporting 17-19k hitpoints, expertise gear and fresh 50s have 12k-13.5k.

 

Not even getting into class imbalances, the gear/dmg gap is the problem. I'm saying the system has been poorly implemented and needs a change. There is no fun to be found but through prolonged attrition.

 

My point about early access 50s is they have no idea what this feels like. When they hit 50, there were no battlemasters they had to beat their face against over and over to try and get gear just to be able to have fun.

 

Please stop trying to assume I have some other hidden motive I have not brought forth. I'm being as open as possible. I'm boggled that anyone can not see what is wrong with pvp in its current form. Even the one sitting in all the BM gear. It should be obvious.

 

Where is the fun in rolling the same batch of undergeared players REPEATEDLY. For EITHER side? As far as WoW goes, yes the same complaints have been made and yes they are just as valid. That is why lower level battlegrounds became so much fun until people with the same "I want to have an advantage vs. compete" mentality ruined it.

 

DAoC. Anyone back in the game's prime who played the pvp brackets or the earlier end game pvp knows how much fun competitive PVP can be. You leveled up to a bracket, made or purchased from other players, your gear and joined. Fun ensued. It wasn't until the scum that always seems to infest a competitive environment started abusing buffbots that PVP went down hill and people left the game. End game realm ranks started the coffin that expansion PVE gear put the final nail into.

 

Even warhammer online was fun in the lower brackets. I saw too much of a repeat of history to stick around to see the endgame.

 

If this game must fail, too, because Bioware is not willing to gamble on putting away a failed recipe for PvP, I hope SOME game finally learns and gives the masses fun, competitive pvp.

[AidenPryde]

Get rid of it and raiders with nightmare drops will dominate pvp without having to put any effort into it. That isn't exactly a better solution at all.

 

That fair to you? Some rank 10 dude kicking some rank 60's *** because the 60 isn't in a guild pushing 16man content? Why even have ranks at all then? Why not just homogenize all gear then?

 

This whole PvE raiders will dominate PvP argument is trash.

 

People are raiding EV HM/Nightmare with PvP gear because PvP gear is easier to get.

 

Removing expertise and leaving the gear grind the way it is will have no significant effect on PvP.

[Emperor_Troll]

You're about to enter into the Warzone/Ilum area, and what you're about to face is going to either make you re-decide PVP in this game, or go PVE and avoid PVP.

 

I am really concerned about this Expertise system, and the "Bag-O-Fail" system.

 

49's coming into battle

(you will be slaughtered like pigs, you are in my prayers)

 

• zero expertise, battles become extreme
  
• less survival
  
• less damage output
  
• less endurance
  
• no gear set for level 49's to enter into the level 50 Warzones to have better chances against those with Champion/Battlemaster gear (they walk in with 18 expertise)
  

 

"Bag-O-Fail" system

(simply a bad idea for giving out gear. Luck gears a player along with mass amounts of time spent -- skill need not apply)

 

• creates farm teams (sharing accounts, or paying someone to farm 24hr WZs for you)
  
• offers no real reward, just if you have the time, you gear (and a lot of time)
  
• skilled players are provided with no challenge
  
• continue to get the same item over and over, no option to turn in for something you really need an upgrade in
  
• 30WZ Commendations for 10 Mercenary (should be 30 for 15 -- at least)
  
• objectives, ranking system should be implemented to say you achieved something to get the gear
  
• allow those who are 49 to obtain the level 50 gear (or provide them with a lower tier set to enter warzones with right away) but simply not be allowed to wear the gear until 50
  

 

Level 49's are about to embark on a horrible PVP system soon, and those already know exactly what that is.

 

I have a really bad headache at the moment, so I have thrown this out without a pure statistical reference. The information provided here is just off the top of my head -- and how I see problems within the game -- BioWare really needs to look into this PVP system rapidly with passion.

 

Right now Warzone PVP is: The Rich get Richer, the Poor get Poorer. (I hope they change this, and soon)

 

Currently I am mostly Champion, I was slightly behind those who got into the game early and those who do nothing but play. Even I see struggle -- but level 49's about to enter into a fully geared level 50 Warzone are going to feel the wrath of BioWare.

 

To level 49 players: rejoice and enjoy the time you have at level 49, think back to how much fun and exploration you had while leveling. If I beat you in a Warzone, I hold no remorse towards you.

 

this should probably get stickied.

[Poor_Grammar]

This whole PvE raiders will dominate PvP argument is trash.

 

People are raiding EV HM/Nightmare with PvP gear because PvP gear is easier to get.

 

Removing expertise and leaving the gear grind the way it is will have no significant effect on PvP.

 

Using that pve gear to wz are they? They may be using it in pve, but it isn't exactly the best. Expertise is a wasted slot for pve. They're just being silly and non optimal.

[AidenPryde]

this should probably get stickied.

 

It won't be unfortunately.

[Aega]

Get rid of it and raiders with nightmare drops will dominate pvp without having to put any effort into it. That isn't exactly a better solution at all.

 

That fair to you? Some rank 10 dude kicking some rank 60's *** because the 60 isn't in a guild pushing 16man content? Why even have ranks at all then? Why not just homogenize all gear then?

 

EASY FIX. Please read closely and stop using this as an excuse to keep the same failed system in place.

 

PVP flag turns on... Gear statistic cap turns on, too!

 

I.E. I have 23k hit points because I'm so awesome in PVE. I enter any type of area/warzone with pvp and BAM, I see a debuff on my character and my stats revert to a normalized preset level for my class. Now I have maybe 15k hitpoints, etc.

 

Problem solved.

Edited January 28, 2012 by Aega

[Poor_Grammar]

EASY FIX. Please read closely and stop using this as an excuse to keep the same failed system in place.

 

PVP flag turns on... Gear statistic cap turns on, too!

 

I.E. I have 23k hit points because I'm so awesome in PVE. I enter any time of area/warzone with pvp and BAM, I see a debuff on my character and my stats revert to a normalized preset level for my class. Now I have maybe 15k hitpoints, etc.

 

Problem solved.

 

What about those that don't have 15 people to carry them through content?

[Aega]

What about those that don't have 15 people to carry them through content?

 

As it pertains to PVP? If your PVP flag turns on your stats are normalized. How is that affected by your access to PVE? There can still be PVP gear to obtain.

 

Infact, with this kind of idea, there will HAVE to be a slew of incentives like I mentioned earlier. Exclusive armor skins, titles, vehicles, companions, emotes, etc.

 

Keep PVP about a level field where competition reigns. NOT a PVE gear grind vs. other players.

[AMKSED]

Bad players are still crying about expertise?

[AMKSED]

EASY FIX. Please read closely and stop using this as an excuse to keep the same failed system in place.

 

PVP flag turns on... Gear statistic cap turns on, too!

 

I.E. I have 23k hit points because I'm so awesome in PVE. I enter any type of area/warzone with pvp and BAM, I see a debuff on my character and my stats revert to a normalized preset level for my class. Now I have maybe 15k hitpoints, etc.

 

Problem solved.

 

Nope, then spike damage classes are going to 3 shot everyone.

 

You're logic is flawed, badly.

[Pplwithnolives]

Yes I feel sorry for my poor level 49 juggernaut going to get ****ED! All for the amazing champion bags! It's worth it......it has to be!

[Aega]

Nope, then spike damage classes are going to 3 shot everyone.

 

You're logic is flawed, badly.

 

How is it flawed badly with normalized stats? Actually it would be an additional tool to keep classes in balance with each other. I'm not proposing Making a tank have the same hitpoints as a stealther.

 

Moreso, tank 1 has 11k hp and tank 2 has 24k hp, both level 50. They're flag turns on, they both have 15-16k or some other preset figure balanced with other classes. If normalization will not work, then put a stat cap and let people work up to that.

 

Try not to just be arguementative and rude. It only tarnishes your character and people dismiss what you have to say.

Edited January 28, 2012 by Aega

[NuWyrldDave]

Just be extremely lucky and you'll be fine. Don't be like me and have an inventory full of relics and 200 expertise. Lololol.

 

Or like me and at 50 valor with only 2 implants and an offhand blaster after 30-35 bags.

[VaJJ]

I prefer Bag of Disappointment

 

I have gotten so many commendations and all I really need is relics and a helm.

[ViperI]

To everyone who dislikes the bag system with random champ items, how do you think it would be done differently?

 

You're not going to get guaranteed items on every single bag, not without decreasing the number of opportunities to acquire champion bags. Right now, if you do both weekly missions (ilum and warzones) as well as completing the daily every day, you get 20 bags per week not counting bags purchased with commendations. Figure you can reasonably save commendations and purchase an additional 5 bags per week for a total of 25 bags per week on average (more active PvPers will get more). You really think that 25 guaranteed item drops per week is reasonable? No, the gear would flood the game way too fast that way.

[AMKSED]

How is it flawed badly with normalized stats? Actually it would be an additional tool to keep classes in balance with each other. I'm not proposing Making a tank have the same hitpoints as a stealther.

 

Moreso, tank 1 has 11k hp and tank 2 has 24k hp, both level 50. They're flag turns on, they both have 15-16k or some other preset figure balanced with other classes. If normalization will not work, then put a stat cap and let people work up to that.

 

Try not to just be arguementative and rude. It only tarnishes your character and people dismiss what you have to say.

 

That tank who only has 11k health is doing something wrong.

 

I hit 50 with a bunch of people having tons more PvP gear than me and I still managed to get my gear and win Warzones. If I can do it, they can too. People just need to quit being bad.

[Tokoloshe]

I'm not sure why BW felt the need to add expertise to PVP at all. If it didn't exist on 40+ PVP gear, you would still have improved stats and set bonuses and there would have been no need for a level 50 bracket.

 

It seems like a stat created to promote end of game grind.

[AMKSED]

I'm not sure why BW felt the need to add expertise to PVP at all. If it didn't exist on 40+ PVP gear, you would still have improved stats and set bonuses and there would have been no need for a level 50 bracket.

 

It seems like a stat created to promote end of game grind.

 

Or a stat to separate people who don't want to PvE to get the top gear so they don't get stomped by the people who do PvE and have the raid gear.

[mikules]

I had to update my OP, just for the heck of it.

 

I think BioWare has done lost their minds.

[StalkerYuno]

To OP: Look, i've seen endgame pvp in other games too. And i can say i've seen worse. At least here if 2 non-geared lvl 50 pvpers gang up on 1 fully geared they can still hope to take him down. After Aion's pvp i can honestly say that going through that for some time until i start getting gear is fine...

 

lol maybe 4-5 shots here instead of 1-2 shots aion, but yeah at least the curve isnt THAT steep.