Spiderbubble Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 I hate cover. I hate it so much, I made a thread about it. We can't Force Charge to any enemy in cover. This isn't a problem usually... But then there's Hutt Ball.... You see, there's that Sniper/Gunslinger up on that catwalk, and he's DPSing the everliving sh-t out of you. And he's in cover, and you can't do jack about it! So you either Camo out of there (wasting a skill you really shouldn't be wasting) or you take the hits and die. There's no counter, since you can't get up there reliably to smack them in the face in return. If they're up there in cover and you're not already next to them, you're dead. The only exception here is if they have another teammate nearby who happens to be within range for you to Charge to. But why would you do that? That would put you in a 2v1 situation (or worse than 2v1) which you would likely lose due to their CC. So you're literally screwed either way. And let's assume you walk up to them after 15ish seconds, running through all sorts of obstacles.... Then they knock you off and you get to repeat it all over again. Force Charge being unable to at least JUMP to enemies while they are taking cover destroys our ability to counter range. We already have problems with ranged enemies, and Cover makes it worse. I'd be fine with it if it did no damage, whatever. But the fact that I can't jump to an enemy who is literally HIDING IN PLAIN SIGHT is pertinent garbage. It's hard enough to target enemies to jump to if they're on a catwalk. Cover>Sith Warrior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReFlexionn Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 aaaah, you bring back bad memories Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kodokai Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Force camo and find that noob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGoldCrayon Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 It's incredibly easy to LoS someone in cover. Try this: LoS around a pillar by the flame pits, see if he tries to move over to reposition for the LoS. If he does, just charge him before he can drop back into cover. If not, then at least you're at a stalemate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malles Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Welcome to every range/melee range fight in every MMO ever made. All you can really do is suck it up and drive on, and this is coming from someone who always plays melee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AcaciaDragon Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 You rely on Force Charge too much, in Huttball, this is dangerously lethal. Hoof it like everyone else, Engage the Sniper with a good opener, when he knocks you back with a Root, Force Camo(if your Carnage) to get right back in, or to prevent him from hitting you for awhile. When he you back in, most likely he will Blind you, Use unleash, and now you have a Full Resolve Bar. He trys to snipe you? Disturbance for the interuppt, Wail on him awhile, if he trys it again, Choke. Marauders are made to kill Snipers, you just have to open up on them differently and KEEP YOUR EYE ON THOSE CATWALKS. Whenever you go to an open area with over hanging Walkways, fully expect to be sniped from above, and be prepared to find cover somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munx Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Tbh I agree cover is bull, There is one rather big issue with it: It Should DEFINATLY not protect your back, that makes it a bunker not a freaking cover. Immunity to interupt from behind in melee range is absolutely to much, snipers are supposed to be at a disadvangate in melee range, currently this is not the case since they cannot be interupted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WokeSmeed Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 You have to force charge on the right timing. LoS, wait till he gets out of cover then Force Charge. But the best way is to force camo first, run to him, get knockbacked, LoS, wait for him to move then Force Charge. Snipers and gunslingers are easy to counter imo, and they also die very very fast if you have enough time on target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lashlarue Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 "Don't do it, Anakin!! I have the high ground!!!" Huttball is a ranged class paradise. And given the way lasers and whatever likes to bend around walls after you run around it? We can get pretty well boned. We are useful for Frenzy plus Predation though. So. There's...that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deviltreh Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 I hate cover. I hate it so much, I made a thread about it. We can't Force Charge to any enemy in cover. This isn't a problem usually... But then there's Hutt Ball.... You see, there's that Sniper/Gunslinger up on that catwalk, and he's DPSing the everliving sh-t out of you. And he's in cover, and you can't do jack about it! So you either Camo out of there (wasting a skill you really shouldn't be wasting) or you take the hits and die. There's no counter, since you can't get up there reliably to smack them in the face in return. If they're up there in cover and you're not already next to them, you're dead. The only exception here is if they have another teammate nearby who happens to be within range for you to Charge to. But why would you do that? That would put you in a 2v1 situation (or worse than 2v1) which you would likely lose due to their CC. So you're literally screwed either way. And let's assume you walk up to them after 15ish seconds, running through all sorts of obstacles.... Then they knock you off and you get to repeat it all over again. Force Charge being unable to at least JUMP to enemies while they are taking cover destroys our ability to counter range. We already have problems with ranged enemies, and Cover makes it worse. I'd be fine with it if it did no damage, whatever. But the fact that I can't jump to an enemy who is literally HIDING IN PLAIN SIGHT is pertinent garbage. It's hard enough to target enemies to jump to if they're on a catwalk. Cover>Sith Warrior. In my book just walking away (or using force camo as you said) is counter enough, as they can't move while in cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayc Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 (edited) Something about using force camo to not die being a waste confused me... The issue is, once you're on a sniper they're in pretty hot water. I think its just fine. Edited January 28, 2012 by Sayc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munx Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 (edited) In my book just walking away (or using force camo as you said) is counter enough, as they can't move while in cover. You are highly overrestimating the amount of stuff that can be used to LoS in a warzone, or even ilum. Only a worthless sniper will setup in a place where there is alot of potential for LoSing, as for running out of attack range, thats not a counter, thats retreating It does not open up advantages unless the sniper is DUMB enough to follow you, which very few are. There is no excuse for why theyr cover should make the un-interuptable/un-chargeable from behind, if a sniper does not take into account who is behind him he should suffer for it, LIKE ANY OTHER CLASS. Allowing one class to ignore situational awareness is a flaw in it self. Snipers already have plenty of CC and the ability to get 2 knockbacks, they don't need 100% immunity to charge/interrupt. And if its gonna stay like this the CD on cover needs to be increased significantly, stunning someone just to see them instant re-deply theyr cover is a laugh. Even more so when theyr cover deployement has a AoE knockback trough spec. Edited January 28, 2012 by Munx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tolone Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 You guys confuse me. With sorcs and mercs destroying everyone you complain about..snipers? And the ability of snipers that a good portion of snipers hate? Hell a lot of snipers are specing into the tree that doesn't require cover just so they don't have to use it. Stay retarded warriors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tweeets Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Sure, it's annoying when they're on a ledge in huttball sometimes, but most of the time there's someone next to them that I can charge, and besides, I do love a non-moving target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoNeedforCavalry Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 I'm going to test these things with my op buddy, but i only see covering being a problem if: Ops/Smugglers can't be charged when just crouching (not talking about portable cover that gunslingers/snipers get) Makes no sense as this is not football, so taking a knee should not stop you from getting tackled. Being in cover prevents being charged from behind. (Cover is something like 45degree frontal arc. It provides no benefit to ranged attacks from behind, so shouldn't prevent charge from behind) that being said, you can always choke to break cover then charge or just obliterate to leap in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munx Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Nothing stopping them from redeploying it if you do choke or otherwise stun them tbh. and yes its not a arc, its 100% from every angle, and that is exactly the problem, cover should cover front, not every angle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sayc Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Nothing stopping them from redeploying it if you do choke or otherwise stun them tbh. and yes its not a arc, its 100% from every angle, and that is exactly the problem, cover should cover front, not every angle. Odds are they won't redeploy in time if you immediately follow it up with force charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Munx Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Dosnt mather, if they are specced for Knockback when deploying, your force charge is nullified. And I doubt even a specced Watchmen could forcecharge from Force choke range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vallowen Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 (edited) I hate cover. I hate it so much, I made a thread about it. We can't Force Charge to any enemy in cover. This isn't a problem usually... But then there's Hutt Ball.... You see, there's that Sniper/Gunslinger up on that catwalk, and he's DPSing the everliving sh-t out of you. And he's in cover, and you can't do jack about it! So you either Camo out of there (wasting a skill you really shouldn't be wasting) or you take the hits and die. There's no counter, since you can't get up there reliably to smack them in the face in return. If they're up there in cover and you're not already next to them, you're dead. The only exception here is if they have another teammate nearby who happens to be within range for you to Charge to. But why would you do that? That would put you in a 2v1 situation (or worse than 2v1) which you would likely lose due to their CC. So you're literally screwed either way. And let's assume you walk up to them after 15ish seconds, running through all sorts of obstacles.... Then they knock you off and you get to repeat it all over again. Force Charge being unable to at least JUMP to enemies while they are taking cover destroys our ability to counter range. We already have problems with ranged enemies, and Cover makes it worse. I'd be fine with it if it did no damage, whatever. But the fact that I can't jump to an enemy who is literally HIDING IN PLAIN SIGHT is pertinent garbage. It's hard enough to target enemies to jump to if they're on a catwalk. Cover>Sith Warrior. welcome to being a melee is swtor. at least you can leap onto any other target sincerely, operative Edited January 29, 2012 by Vallowen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nmaharg Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Force choke then charge pretty easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OniGanon Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 No mention of Saber Ward? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yokubou Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Give me a break. Marksmanship Snipers or Gunslinger counterpart are having a hard time. Most of their attacks are dodged, parried. You have Obfuscate/Saber Ward. While you have them active sniper is almost useless, once you get close to him you destroy him. They are really squishy and killable if not Lethality Spec. Lethality at least can do some damage to you, where in Marksman spec all damage get's reflected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoNeedforCavalry Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Give me a break. Marksmanship Snipers or Gunslinger counterpart are having a hard time. Most of their attacks are dodged, parried. You have Obfuscate/Saber Ward. While you have them active sniper is almost useless, once you get close to him you destroy him. They are really squishy and killable if not Lethality Spec. Lethality at least can do some damage to you, where in Marksman spec all damage get's reflected. Obfuscate = 4m Saber Ward = 50% def to melee/ranged attacks, nada to tech/force w/ 3 min CD. The OP was complaining very specifically about smugglers/agents taking cover(not even always real cover, sometimes just taking a knee) in hard to reach spots and letting loose. Using our longest defensive CD to be able to run away from them is really just stupid. Also, what class gets to reflect blaster bolts? i wanna play that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiderbubble Posted January 29, 2012 Author Share Posted January 29, 2012 It doesn't help that you're likely going to get snared/slowed/stunned/knocked back so fast that you will nearly always die before you get up to them. It's not that it's a major problem in anything other than Hutt Ball. The Hutt Ball map is set up so badly for a melee character that it's very upsetting... Probably a problem with Hutt Ball more than the cover system, but both are way worse in combination with each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kibaken Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 Obfuscate = 4m Saber Ward = 50% def to melee/ranged attacks, nada to tech/force w/ 3 min CD. The OP was complaining very specifically about smugglers/agents taking cover(not even always real cover, sometimes just taking a knee) in hard to reach spots and letting loose. Using our longest defensive CD to be able to run away from them is really just stupid. Also, what class gets to reflect blaster bolts? i wanna play that! Saber Ward is actually 20% (if I remember the exact amount off-hand) Force and Tech damage reduction for the duration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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