Patching, scheduled maintenance and forum policies of these forums.

[iceninenine]

Nice wall of text, Lars.

 

Admittedly I had neither the time nor the interest to examine the entire wall, but hopefully BW is paying someone to care enough about what you have to say. Someone would need to be paid a lot to endure that, but BW has a decent budget.

 

The one point I was able to extract from your wall of text is that the time of day that BW decides to patch bothers you. Rest assured, Lars, BW knows exactly what time of day and what day of week will impact the smallest number of players. Rest assured that they patch on the day and at the time of day that affects the least number of players. Indeed, the time during which they choose to patch is hardly unique to swtor.

 

Please re-read the prior two sentences to ensure you understand.

 

My advice, Lars, move to a different time zone or convince enough people to play in your timezone.

[Zilvafein]

Nice wall of text, Lars.

 

Admittedly I had neither the time nor the interest to examine the entire wall, but hopefully BW is paying someone to care enough about what you have to say. Someone would need to be paid a lot to endure that, but BW has a decent budget.

 

...

 

My advice, Lars, move to a different time zone or convince enough people to play in your timezone.

 

If you neither had time nor interest. Then why did you bother responding? Apart from demonstrating that you answer barely fit the context of the topic that is.

[zeretul]

People really complaining about a 4 hour downtime for a patch? And complaining about lack of communication from BioWare as to why?

 

Well I went back and looked at my World of Warcraft account. I played since day 1 and I played off and on until this past November (so 7 years). Within the first year of the game's release Blizzard comped my account 13 days of play time due to exessive downtime while they performed maintenance. Which means the game was unplayable for nearly 24 hours on 13 separate occasions. Over the course of the 7 years I played the game they comped my account a total of 24 days, nearly one month of the game being unplayable. The last day to be comped was nearly 4.5 years after the game was released.

 

Also for every one of those days in which the game was unplayable for nearly 24 hours Blizzard posted updates maybe 3 times the whole day. Basically zero communication, with the promise of an update coming at a certain time and us not getting the update for 2-3 hours later than promised. And not all of these were patch days, some were just plain scheduled maintenance.

 

I have yet to see BioWare take the servers down for a whole day, and have yet to see them say "we'll give an update at 1:00pm" and them not give an update at that time or earlier. Also almost every time BioWare has taken the servers down they have come back up ahead of scheduled.

 

This game has been barely out a month and this is BioWare's first time doing a MMO. As far as game down time and communication to the players, they are kicking the butt of the company that made the most popular MMO ever. Yet some people just can't help but to complain.....

Edited January 29, 2012 by zeretul

[iceninenine]

People really complaining about a 4 hour downtime for a patch? And complaining about lack of communication from BioWare as to why?

 

Well I went back and looked at my World of Warcraft account. I played since day 1 and I played off and on until this past November (so 7 years). Within the first year of the game's release Blizzard comped my account 13 days of play time due to exessive downtime while they performed maintenance. Which means the game was unplayable for nearly 24 hours on 13 separate occasions. Over the course of the 7 years I played the game they comped my account a total of 24 days, nearly one month of the game being unplayable. The last day to be comped was nearly 4.5 years after the game was released.

 

Also for every one of those days in which the game was unplayable for nearly 24 hours Blizzard posted updates maybe 3 times the whole day. Basically zero communication, with the promise of an update coming at a certain time and us not getting the update for 2-3 hours later than promised. And not all of these were patch days, some were just plain scheduled maintenance.

 

I have yet to see BioWare take the servers down for a whole day, and have yet to see them say "we'll give an update at 1:00pm" and them not give an update at that time or earlier. Also almost every time BioWare has taken the servers down they have come back up ahead of scheduled.

 

This game has been barely out a month and this is BioWare's first time doing a MMO. As far as game down time and communication to the players, they are kicking the butt of the company that made the most popular MMO ever. Yet some people just can't help but to complain.....

 

Agreed.

[crazytaxi]

I understand, as the game is barely 1 month out now, they have lots of hotfixes, same with other mmo's in the early months, but all the hotfixes i see so far are in the same time (after prime time US), so if the problems are such a huge issue, why wait till the (most) of the US are sleeping?

If it can wait till then, why cant it wait till the normal mainentance?

 

Anyway, i still enjoy the game, and the problems so far, i expected it kinda, as every mmo have its startup problems

[kokosak]

From here: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=244511&page=18

 

 

Regarding maintenance periods themselves, we'll be giving some more details on those a little more in the coming week, I hope.

[Sufran]

Suprised they haven't closed this yet, I replied on a post from Aldacar about censorships in forums and it got suprisingly closed down. But then again the moderator would probarly having a hard time closing down like a gazilion posts a minute with complaints.

Whilst I appreciate that this is their product thus they may control the forum in whatever manner they wish, I do think basic respect and a consistent, embracing approach to relatively free expression is best for ideological reasons. Moreover, I think that silencing your consumers make them feel belittled thus it doesn't serve your product well (even if forum posters and readers are a minority as is often claimed). I was about to reply to that topic prior to it being immediately closed. Importantly, note that they claim to accept feedback... but want it sent to an easily ignored e-mail address where the potential for a collective voice and a sense of unity is prevented. What possible motivation could they have beyond that when they have a forum already in existence for dealing with community management? There seem to be several possibilities; they don’t realise that consumers are wholly aware of their intent thus are incompetent, they’re aware but don’t care about any negative impacts, or don’t realise how people will interpret it thus demonstrated their failure to communicate or think again by missing something so startlingly obvious. It's entirely feasible that they want people to complain via a more direct method in order to craft unique, individual responses but I have no evidence for that either, this is all speculative.

 

Originally, I had faith that they closed topics and referred people to existing topics for the sake of efficient organisation but my increasingly cynical side makes me believe that they're trying to create 'complaint graveyards.' A single topic is simply more likely to become bloated and missed thus reduces the probability of escalation. I usually like to be patient with regards to issues but there's just a 'sense' of being belittled and marginalised that my mind can't remove with any level of logic. They could be doing it for the most innocent, honest reasons possible but then why aren’t there “just to let you know we’ve read everything thus far” responses on a regular basis in these immensely long collated topics they’re creating? When they do respond, they seem to have ignored the incredibly insightful, substantiated, citation-filled posts I’ve seen many people provide that pre-emptively rebutted their ‘new’ solution. Far too often, communication is tentative and exceedingly vague too. I understand that they wish to avoid making false promises but a little elaboration as to WHAT they're 'hoping' for would be appreciated.

 

Having said this, I have no issues with the game itself, its content, and numerous other impressive features within the game but the poor communication and lack of humility disturbs me as it sets a disconcerting precedent for the future. I sincerely hope the game is in such a remarkable state thanks to persistent and pervasive communication in the past rather than due to the sheer quantity of time invested into development. We’ll see.

 

With regard to the topic, I do think conducting maintenance on a weekend is rather imbecilic and if it’s urgent then why not simply communicate that? If their intent is to ensure that a ‘hot off the press’ refined patch is ready for Sunday for those that are primarily able to play on the weekend then why not explain that? As for the Europe matter, I reside in the EU but can appreciate that there must be considerable difficulty in aligning such things and that it may cause friction if one gets patches prior to the other due to time-zone differences. However, it’s also possible other games compensated for that or implemented time-zone disparities without any friction arising.

Edited January 29, 2012 by Sufran

[Leggomy]

Man are we still going on about having to step away from the game for 4 hours? I keep reading how the game is no fun. How the servers are dead. How the game is 100% unplayable. Then I read here where people cannot even go 4 hours once a week without playing it. I think the long term viability is pretty good to be honest.

[SolGravion]

Man are we still going on about having to step away from the game for 4 hours? I keep reading how the game is no fun. How the servers are dead. How the game is 100% unplayable. Then I read here where people cannot even go 4 hours once a week without playing it. I think the long term viability is pretty good to be honest.

 

You are lumping the opinion of everybody else together into one ridiculous mass of QQ. Thats not fair to the players who enjoy the game, and get home at midnight, or euros.

[Myrden]

Good post, OP.

 

Amazing how many people didn't actually read it but then decided to flame you for what they presumed you were talking about instead. Methinks it is they who need to "chill out."

[Leggomy]

You are lumping the opinion of everybody else together into one ridiculous mass of QQ. Thats not fair to the players who enjoy the game, and get home at midnight, or euros.

 

Like me? I get home at around 3am CST. I also understand that I am a vast minority and I cannot expect them to cater to me. So (and big shocker here I know) I just accept that it happens and learn to live with it.

 

Its what adults do.

[Myrden]

Like me? I get home at around 3am CST. I also understand that I am a vast minority and I cannot expect them to cater to me. So (and big shocker here I know) I just accept that it happens and learn to live with it.

 

Its what adults do.

 

Adults are always satisfied and never campaign for reform?

 

Which country is it you live in again?

[Leggomy]

Adults are always satisfied and never campaign for reform?

 

Which country is it you live in again?

 

This is a video game guy. Not real life. Its only 4 hours and there is no "reform". I can accept the game might go down when I want to play. I put my big boy underwear on and get over it.

Edited January 29, 2012 by Leggomy

[Myrden]

This is a video game guy. Not real life. Its only 4 hours and there is no "reform". I can accept the game might go down when I want to play. I put my big boy underwear on and get over it.

 

If I'm not satisfied with my burger, I should remember that it's only a burger and not real life.

 

Whenever I'm unhappy with a product that I buy, I should remember that it's only a product and not real life.

 

I get it now.

 

You must remember that the majority of what the OP is talking about is the lack of communication between BW and us, he understands (like most of us) that patches are vital and indeed welcomed... but it would help if they would mention just why they're dragging our game down at primetime.

 

There's a lot of folks in this thread jumping to the conclusion that those who aren't happy are all kids and need to find a real life. The irony of which is very amusing.

[Leggomy]

If I'm not satisfied with my burger, I should remember that it's only a burger and not real life.

 

Whenever I'm unhappy with a product that I buy, I should remember that it's only a product and not real life.

 

I get it now.

 

You must remember that the majority of what the OP is talking about is the lack of communication between BW and us, he understands (like most of us) that patches are vital and indeed welcomed... but it would help if they would mention just why they're dragging our game down at primetime.

 

There's a lot of folks in this thread jumping to the conclusion that those who aren't happy are all kids and need to find a real life. The irony of which is very amusing.

 

No the burger is real. Its not a fake burger its a real burger. Also do you go to someplace that isnt open 24 hours and yell at them how they hate you and they should be open whenever you want? I mean come on now this isn't about being unhappy about the product. You obviously love the product you cant even go 4 hrs once a week without it.

[Myrden]

No the burger is real. Its not a fake burger its a real burger.

 

So this isn't a real game? Hmm.

 

Also do you go to someplace that isnt open 24 hours and yell at them how they hate you and they should be open whenever you want?

 

Who's yelling? We're not satisfied with the service they are providing and we are telling them so in a very reasonable way. What is unfair about that? Should we never complain and always take what we get? That sounds ridiculous!

 

I mean come on now this isn't about being unhappy about the product. You obviously love the product you cant even go 4 hrs once a week without it.

 

Obviously. lol.

 

No, it's not often that I find the time to play this game, but Saturday daytime is one of those times.

 

So I try to play the game that I'm paying a subscription for and I can't play it. I look to see why this is and can find no information other than "game is down for maintenance."

 

Being unhappy with this I venture to the forums to find no other news.

 

Where from this scenario am I saying that I cannot go 4 hours without playing this game?

 

Sure, I have other things to do. I did actually do those things, but that doesn't solve the matter of BW taking down the game during EU primetime. They still did it, and I wish to voice my concern about this. What's so wrong about that?

 

The bigger question for you, should be why are you here telling us that we are wrong to complain?

[Sufran]

Also do you go to someplace that isnt open 24 hours and yell at them how they hate you and they should be open whenever you want?

Firstly, I have to say that I fundamentally disagree with you since I think the fundamental interaction between consumer and service provider is identical to almost every other realm in life hence see no logic in trying to distinguish between this and ‘reality’ via the burger reference. You do not pay with fictional finance and the nature of the service is irrelevant, it is still a service for recompense. However, I must also state that I do appreciate the point you’re trying to make about distance and excessive involvement, I just deviate from it.

 

Anyhoo, the reason I’m posting is because the analogy you’ve provided is somewhat unrepresentative of the reality. If you had specifically paid a shop for their services and staying open was included in that contract, then how would you feel if they made the illogical choice to close for quite a few hours during the busiest trading days for something that could be performed during the hours with lowest visitor volume? After all, you’ve paid them to stay open and it’s when you, and others, are most likely to utilise the services. If they provided you with justification, such as the ill-health of a staff member (i.e. emergency fix in this case) in advance then that’s a different matter but simply plonking it at such an inappropriate time with a generic announcement would, at least in my case, be a tad irritating therefore would warrant a complaint. Equally, that doesn't necessarily mean you state how much they 'hate you,' you're simply questioning the oddness of their choice given you paid them to be available and they chose to be unavailable at the worst possible time despite potential alternatives. Naturally, if they do have legitimate reasons akin to an ill staff member then failing to inform you indicates poor communication so warrants its own complaint.

Edited January 29, 2012 by Sufran

[LogicalPremise]

I gotta love all the people who are upset that people are upset.

 

I also find it amusing that , of course, that some people in this thread opposing anyone being upset over the patch timing have a STAGGERING number of posts of doing nothing but ... opposing anyone being upset over the patch time.

 

I'd take these people more seriously if they had ever , ever agreed that anyone, at any time, had a valid complaint about anything. As it stand, though, they sound like PR people.

[Ikkio]

If it helps, stop thinking of it as a game, and strip it down to what it actually is, a paid-for service. The game is just the medium, ignore that and you'll get a better understanding of the core problem.

 

If your "cell" phone service was taken down for maintenance for four hours a week, would you not complain? Would you still not complain if it was on a Saturday morning?

 

Playing devil's advocate for a moment, we don't actually know we're being ignored. We only know we are not being acknowledged, and in some cases, censored. We have seen so far that BW have taken what has been said in these forums and used them. As may be the case here, it's communication that is lacking, not necessarily action.

 

Having worked for an American company for a number of years, this is unfortunately typical of how they operate. As long as they get your "green" they couldn't care less.

[Divine-Shadow]

If it helps, stop thinking of it as a game, and strip it down to what it actually is, a paid-for service. The game is just the medium, ignore that and you'll get a better understanding of the core problem.

 

If your "cell" phone service was taken down for maintenance for four hours a week, would you not complain? Would you still not complain if it was on a Saturday morning?

 

Playing devil's advocate for a moment, we don't actually know we're being ignored. We only know we are not being acknowledged, and in some cases, censored. We have seen so far that BW have taken what has been said in these forums and used them. As may be the case here, it's communication that is lacking, not necessarily action.

 

Having worked for an American company for a number of years, this is unfortunately typical of how they operate. As long as they get your "green" they couldn't care less.

 

The only problem with your bad analogy is that server's need to be restarted....lol...... I'm actually impressed that they only do it once a week, I would of expected it at least 3 times a week at least for a reboot.

[Ikkio]

The only problem with your bad analogy is that server's need to be restarted....lol...... I'm actually impressed that they only do it once a week, I would of expected it at least 3 times a week at least for a reboot.

 

Which has what to do with my analogy? How do you think a cell phone service works? With servers, software and patches...

 

Impressed? Wow, good job some of us hold companies to higher standards.

[Selvendar]

You don't have a leg to stand on here OP. The Saturday patch was to fix a problem with error 9000 and people getting booted from the game to the character screen over and over again. So because you were denied a whopping 4 hours of game time on a Saturday so that hundreds, maybe thousands of players could have an enjoyable experience, you think you have a right to complain?

 

Try walking in other people's shoes from time to time and you will grow as a human being. I've seen the excuse, "Well, Saturday is the only day that I can spend any time playing this game!" So let me see if I can pop a hole in this ridiculous justification for whining. Say I'm the guy who can only play on Sundays. And my friend down the street is in the same boat. Say BioWare opts to implement this exact same hotfix on Sunday. You're happy now, right? But what about my friend and I? Do we now have the right to make a thread on the forums to express our "outrage" about being mistreated and neglected as a customer? What about the people who only play on Mondays? On Tuesdays? On Thursday and Friday? ARE YOU SERIOUS?

 

Like a previous poster mentioned...it's time most of you just chilled out. There is no perfect day during the week to do server maintenance. Someone, somewhere is going to miss out on playing the game. Too bad. You CANNOT appease everyone, it's impossible. So complaining about it changes nothing, shows bad manners, and demonstrates a lack of understanding and patience.

 

Lastly, know that scheduled maintenance is exactly that. Scheduled. Also know that complications arise and sometimes the downtime must be extended. That's the way it is with MMO's. You expect BioWare to be flexible and I expect you to be even more flexible. After all, you are only responsible for pleasing one person...yourself. BW has a lot more to worry about than a few lost souls. As for hotfixes and emergency patches, again, there is no perfect time to implement them, but it is ALWAYS better when it's sooner rather than later. Usually there's something in the game negatively affecting a slew of customers and if some of us are inconvenienced because of random downtimes, we have to step back and realize it's for the greater good.

 

I was being negatively affected by the error 9000 problem and I'm grateful they have taken steps to remedy the situation. If their hotfixes make you angry enough to post this thread because of a 4 hour downtime, try on my shoes and see how you like getting kicked off the game every 3-5 minutes for three straight days. The difference between us? I didn't complain on the forums about it. There are much more productive avenues we can venture down to get the desired results we are after.

 

TL;DR -- Get over it. BioWare cannot and SHOULD NOT try to make everyone happy. It's impossible.

[Kabjat]

To the OP and others: I really hope they can come up with a maintenance schedule that is more conducive to all players. I haven't the first clue about how the infrastructure works in a game like this but one would think that with so many peeved EU players, BW would stop being the silent mysterious 'wizard behind the curtain' and at LEAST assign a person on their forum mod team to talk to disgruntled players...instead of these sterile yellow post form letters. I think a move like that would go a long way to smoothing ruffled feathers.

 

At least it would show that they aren't outright ignoring EU players

[Ikkio]

You don't have a leg to stand on here OP. You think you have a right to complain?

 

Yes he does, as a paying customer he has every right to complain, as do we all.

 

Try walking in other people's shoes from time to time and you will grow as a human being.

 

Try respecting the OP's position and keep it constructive. This just shows ignorance on your part, not the OP.

 

So complaining about it changes nothing, shows bad manners, and demonstrates a lack of understanding and patience.

 

Complaining is an inherent right of any customer, and of any person. Inaction achieves nothing. If people didn't drive change we would all still be in mud huts eating root soup. While this may be a game forum, and this merely a game, the principle holds. The only bad manners on display here are yours, by making it personal. Whether you agree or not, this is something that affects more than the OP, we just happen to be in their thread.

 

I expect you to be even more flexible.

 

When you spend your whole rant belittling the OP and their point of view, who are you to begin making demands? As above, keep it constructive and discuss the issue like an adult.

 

There are much more productive avenues we can venture down to get the desired results we are after.

 

Feel free to suggest them here. What is a forum if not a place to discuss things?

 

Get over it. BioWare cannot and SHOULD NOT try to make everyone happy. It's impossible.

 

Wrong, companies have a duty to listen to customers and improve their product or service. Whether that's for shareholders or the board they have to justify the performance of their proposition. A company that takes no notice of their paying customers is the one that fails.

[Kabjat]

 

TL;DR -- Get over it. BioWare cannot and SHOULD NOT try to make everyone happy. It's impossible.

 

 

There isn't much evidence that they really wish to connect with the players who populate and inundate their forums, is there?

 

I've seen it said time and time again. Many EU players would just like to be acknowledged...because they DO have a valid complaint. This company doesn't seem to ever addresses their customers directly. Would it be so difficult? Don't you realize the value of a company communicating effectively with their customers? Especially ones that are not happy? Are you telling me that Bioware should NOT make any effort to at least RETAIN their customers?

 

If so, that is bad business.