Carnage needs a buff.

[Shandrii]

I think carnage tree needs a buff i have played carnage since level 10 and im now a level 50 and am lvl 61 in valor and i still think we need a buff. i play with my annihilation buddy and he consistently out dps's me. When compared to other classes like BH's and sorcs we can't compare to their damage output, we just can't. Like others have said you can be very good and bust your *** trying to be the best but even at the end of the match you will be in the middle of the road when it comes to dps and will truely be the unsung hero. I have all champ gear with 1 piece of BM and im far from being a "noob." i know my class very well but even doing all that i can, its still next to impossible to dps like other classes with similar gear. i don't think we need a huge buff but a buff is necessary maybe add some damage to massacre or something.

[Oxegenn]

I think removing gores global cooldown would help matters.

 

On an additional point. If roots do ignore resolve. Have speced ravage/master strike root all the time and stasis/choke work properly. That would help. Since carnage is one of those proc classes. Reduce riposte and deadly throw to 2 rage/focus.

 

I now play rage/focus spec and it has far more burst rotations.

[Spiderbubble]

Remove the 1.5 second restriction on Ataru form procs.

 

 

 

 

Carnage is now the best spec (as it should be, if you ask me).

 

 

 

 

 

To me, it feels like Annihilation and Carnage should be on equal terms and both powerful in their own right. Rage, as a shared spec, should be a middle ground between the Sith Warriors Advanced Classes: Juggernaught/Marauder. As a Marauder in Rage, you should be tankier with a bit less damage than usual. As a Juggernaught, you should do more damage while being squishier than usual. This doesn't seem to be the case.

 

 

Annihilation should be about bleeds, and it is. It's amazing. At least, it would be if we didn't get CC'd by everything with a gun.

 

Carnage... I actually LOVE Carnage. It's just not what Annihilation is. Having tried all 3 specs (Annihilation last), I will agree that Annihilation is the best overall... But Carnage is SO MUCH MORE FUN. And I wish it was stronger so that I could actually play it. I'm not sure what the problem is, but Carnage feels weak compared to Annihilation. I'm going to assume it's the lack of healing... Easy fix to that though: Ataru form procs now return X% of the damage dealt as HP.

 

 

Hey look, we're now viable as Carnage.

[Kodokai]

As an annie player for a while having switch over to Carnage theres so much burst potential there its insane.

[Spiderbubble]

I went from Carnage to Annihi (just to see WHY it was considered so good).

 

 

I still like Carnage more, but I will regrettably say that Annihilation is better in PvP.

 

In PvE, Carnage is absolutely amazing! It has crazy damage output and very reliable DPS.

 

In PvP, Annihilation has healing. It also has a faster way to regenerate Fury (even better if you take Defensive Forms from the CARNAGE tree). Lastly, the Fury generated while using the Annihilation tree is immensely more powerful. 1% health per tick (which Annihilation gets plenty of per rotation) combined with 100% crit on these ticks is immense for Berserk.

 

What do the other two get? Pathetic bonuses that make Fury virtually useless. Carnage has a nice buff on Berserk, but it won't ever compare to Annihilation. Rage's is pitiful.

 

 

Then if we're talking about Predation, Annihilation gets a 30% movement increase. The others don't get that.

 

 

 

I still LOVE Carnage and as soon as it gets even the slightest buff I will return to it, but as it stands, I will admit that Annihilation is superior. I just wish that wasn't so.

[Kodokai]

I went from Carnage to Annihi (just to see WHY it was considered so good).

 

 

I still like Carnage more, but I will regrettably say that Annihilation is better in PvP.

 

In PvE, Carnage is absolutely amazing! It has crazy damage output and very reliable DPS.

 

In PvP, Annihilation has healing. It also has a faster way to regenerate Fury (even better if you take Defensive Forms from the CARNAGE tree). Lastly, the Fury generated while using the Annihilation tree is immensely more powerful. 1% health per tick (which Annihilation gets plenty of per rotation) combined with 100% crit on these ticks is immense for Berserk.

 

What do the other two get? Pathetic bonuses that make Fury virtually useless. Carnage has a nice buff on Berserk, but it won't ever compare to Annihilation. Rage's is pitiful.

 

 

Then if we're talking about Predation, Annihilation gets a 30% movement increase. The others don't get that.

 

 

 

I still LOVE Carnage and as soon as it gets even the slightest buff I will return to it, but as it stands, I will admit that Annihilation is superior. I just wish that wasn't so.

 

You've got a point that Carnage makes you floppy but you sacrifice that for immense burst.

[Battorian]

I agree Carnage is definitely lacking in damage. I switched to Annihilation last night and was pretty bad at playing it and still did more damage then i usually do with Carnage. I believe pvp is not always about damage but after some dueling sessions with a Annihilation vs Carnage Marauder I can say for sure that Carnage is lacking damage. Gore being a 6 second window is far too short to take advantage of and I feel like it does't increase damage that much anyways.

[Yescek]

I agree that we either need to have 2.5-4% HP come back off of every ataru proc, or have the 1.5 second restriction removed.

 

Either of those changes will work to balance things out, though I like the idea of the 1.5 second restriction coming off rather than heal procs. That'll help in terms of making up the DPS because then the rotation (post-rage building) Massacre + Gore + Force Scream + Deadly Throw + Ravage + Force Choke will produce a bare minimum of 7 procs I think. That will add ~2.8k more damage (Very rough estimation). With the setup I have now, that would produce 14k total damage off of the above rotation. Which by the way, is usually my opener.

 

I think that would help alot.

[Shandrii]

i'd like to make a point that carnage burst really isn't that great, rage spec has better burst than we do yet we're supposed to be the burst spec. when it comes to burst im going to disregard the 15% damage ability and only consider zen and trinket. If you gore then trinket, zen, and massacre spam its still not very good because this is extremely easy to interrupt! you do that, if you get cc'd once or the person runs away now you have to use at least 2 gcds trying to get back on that person by that time our gore buff has run out and our burst is half assed at best.

[AcaciaDragon]

i'd like to make a point that carnage burst really isn't that great, rage spec has better burst than we do yet we're supposed to be the burst spec. when it comes to burst im going to disregard the 15% damage ability and only consider zen and trinket. If you gore then trinket, zen, and massacre spam its still not very good because this is extremely easy to interrupt! you do that, if you get cc'd once or the person runs away now you have to use at least 2 gcds trying to get back on that person by that time our gore buff has run out and our burst is half assed at best.

 

We have more sustained damage though. Rage can only do there omega Smash once every 21 seconds, more if Choke is ready, AND you you have to time it just right, AND it does better when more than 1 person is in range. Carnage can get 2 Force Scream crits off in the same amount of time, not to mention Gore + Ravage + Scream = 7-9k damage without Crits.

 

Also, If i see a Rage marauder, you can negate some of the damage, because its easy to tell when hes setting a Omega Smash up, just pop Saber Ward or and Def CD depending on the class and you just negated alot of that Smash's damage. Rage is too easy to predict and relies on one move.

 

As Carnage I can stay on you with my extra speed, root you if your too far. You cant escape when ive nailed your feet to the tracks of the oncoming ownageTrain thats about to hit you.

 

Your right about Gore though, this little ability needs to be fixed, Make it grant 3 Armor Penetration Charges. either a self buff or a debuff on the target for others to take advantage of. If we get knocked away we do lose that Gore, but if you get knocked away while you try to smash, you lose it too. Except it takes longer for you to set that back up, and as for us, we can jujmp right back into the action since Gore is on a shorter CD than Crush.

[Vashramire]

Carnage works around ataru procs, scream auto crits, and gore. Scream hits hard but Rage's smash with proc does crazy numbers and it's aoe. Ataru can be handled a couple ways. Increase damage outright, drastically increase damage but also reduce proc chance or increase cd for higher burst but it would be less reliable, or have it help heal which gives survivability but no damage technically, or remove the proc cd. Not sure what would be the best route for that to take. Gore I have much love for. It really is what should be the burst enabler for the spec. I believe it should be off the gcd, that would at least help.The cd and rage I suppose I'm ok with. Instead of a time window though it should be like berserk, have 20 sec and like 6 charges so if we get rooted or stunned (like any good class in pvp will do to you if they see you use it) it wont be wasted. And give it 50-100% shield penetration maybe. If it's 6 hits or 6 sec, it should be a buff worth using not a buff you can only pull out if your hoping they blew all their cd before you got there.

[Lashlarue]

I think removing gores global cooldown would help matters.

 

On an additional point. If roots do ignore resolve. Have speced ravage/master strike root all the time and stasis/choke work properly. That would help. Since carnage is one of those proc classes. Reduce riposte and deadly throw to 2 rage/focus.

 

I now play rage/focus spec and it has far more burst rotations.

 

If the immobilize effect for Savage (with Overwhelm 2/2) and the innate immobilize effect of Force Charge (with or without Stagger 2/2) worked the way it is supposed to, Carnage would be THE spec for PvP. But in my experience, neither works reliably enough to even think about counting on it.

Edited January 28, 2012 by Lashlarue

[Ekryth]

If the immobilize effect for Savage (with Overwhelm 2/2) and the innate immobilize effect of Force Charge (with or without Stagger 2/2) worked the way it is supposed to, Carnage would be THE spec for PvP. But in my experience, neither works reliably enough to even think about counting on it.

 

The overwhelm talent to make ravage root your target works fine for me... And the root talent with deadly throw is nice as well.

 

I love the carnage tree. The only thing I can think of to make it slightly better is a longer duration on gore. The 6 second duration seems long enough, but if you happen to use gore and then get CC'd immediately after, it's a complete waste... which is damned frustrating..

[Awyeah]

The overwhelm talent to make ravage root your target works fine for me... And the root talent with deadly throw is nice as well.

 

I love the carnage tree. The only thing I can think of to make it slightly better is a longer duration on gore. The 6 second duration seems long enough, but if you happen to use gore and then get CC'd immediately after, it's a complete waste... which is damned frustrating..

 

The ravage root works perfectly when you cast it on someone standing still, but at least in my experience, whenever I use it on someone running away, they always seem to get away from it due to latency.. And I'm stuck there casting for 3 seconds.

 

On the gore part I completely agree, it's a nice ability, but could use some rework.. Longer duration, or a certain number of hits.

 

Playing anni meanwhile hoping for some carnage love in the future!

[AcaciaDragon]

The ravage root works perfectly when you cast it on someone standing still, but at least in my experience, whenever I use it on someone running away, they always seem to get away from it due to latency.. And I'm stuck there casting for 3 seconds.

 

On the gore part I completely agree, it's a nice ability, but could use some rework.. Longer duration, or a certain number of hits.

 

Playing anni meanwhile hoping for some carnage love in the future!

 

Thats not lag, its a bug. Ravage will sometimes just do the animation and root you in palce without doing damage or using the Cooldown. It typcially happens most often after a Force Charge.

[Xerain]

I agree that we either need to have 2.5-4% HP come back off of every ataru proc, or have the 1.5 second restriction removed.

 

Either of those changes will work to balance things out, though I like the idea of the 1.5 second restriction coming off rather than heal procs. That'll help in terms of making up the DPS because then the rotation (post-rage building) Massacre + Gore + Force Scream + Deadly Throw + Ravage + Force Choke will produce a bare minimum of 7 procs I think. That will add ~2.8k more damage (Very rough estimation). With the setup I have now, that would produce 14k total damage off of the above rotation. Which by the way, is usually my opener.

 

I think that would help alot.

 

oh yes carnage needs to be able to heal too great idea! lets give rage tons of healing too while we're at it!

[Awyeah]

Thats not lag, its a bug. Ravage will sometimes just do the animation and root you in palce without doing damage or using the Cooldown. It typcially happens most often after a Force Charge.

 

well I never really used ravage right after a charge. And it's not the thypical bug that happens sometimes, wich also happens alot with force choke. I get a few hits off, and they stop for a milisec or something, but then they keep running and I don't hit them anymore..

I can't be the only one experiencing this?

[Yescek]

oh yes carnage needs to be able to heal too great idea! lets give rage tons of healing too while we're at it!

 

You missed the point. It's an EITHER/OR situation. Lrn2read kthnxbai.

 

As Carnage I can stay on you with my extra speed, root you if your too far. You cant escape when ive nailed your feet to the tracks of the oncoming ownageTrain thats about to hit you.

 

@Bolded: So very, very true lol. Force Charge > Battering Assault > Oh teh noes! Knockback! > Force Camo + Frenzy + Predation > Massacre > Gore > Force Falcon Paw- ehm, I mean Scream > Ravage = anything squishier than a Tank will either be dead or close to it.

[Shandrii]

You missed the point. It's an EITHER/OR situation. Lrn2read kthnxbai.

 

 

 

@Bolded: So very, very true lol. Force Charge > Battering Assault > Oh teh noes! Knockback! > Force Camo + Frenzy + Predation > Massacre > Gore > Force Falcon Paw- ehm, I mean Scream > Ravage = anything squishier than a Tank will either be dead or close to it.

 

it seems that most of you think that ravage is really good and i have to disagree, anybody with half a brain cell would know to interrupt ravage at start meaning theres 3.5-5k that isn't happening. ravage is a bad move and extremely easily inturrupted i don't mean to say your bad but you probably just haven't played enough to realize how unreliable this ability is. Every battlemaster i know has dropped this ability from his rotation and uses it when either rage starving or when he knows the target is stunned.

[Shandrii]

anybody else have thoughts on the subject?

[AcaciaDragon]

it seems that most of you think that ravage is really good and i have to disagree, anybody with half a brain cell would know to interrupt ravage at start meaning theres 3.5-5k that isn't happening. ravage is a bad move and extremely easily inturrupted i don't mean to say your bad but you probably just haven't played enough to realize how unreliable this ability is. Every battlemaster i know has dropped this ability from his rotation and uses it when either rage starving or when he knows the target is stunned.

 

Then they aren't maximizing there DPS. Power Relic + Power Adrenal into Gore + Ravage + Scream = 11k hit on Average. Hell the Relic and Adrenal boost a Scream to 4.2k. You gotta Take risks in PvP and pulling off Ravage from there bars because it can be Interuppted is not a good reason to not use it. Ravage costs no Rage. So to do this little opener you only need 8 Rage. Charge + Battering assault gives you that with room to use a Massacre.

 

Also on your original note, Massacre has a chance to proc 2 Ataru strikes. making each massacre able to hit between 2-3k(with crits) per usage. Add Gore and Berserk plus a Crit Relic and you will hit Really hard really fast. So Carnage does not need a buff, we need tweaks to our skills. If Ravage's uninterrupted talent was somewhere in the Tier 1 section of a talent tree, that would be better. Then we would only have to worry about knock backs or stuns stopping us. Hell even an increase to Chokes damage would be great, 4 seconds of channeling for a 4 second stun we cant take advantage of and 4 rage for only 400 damage a tick...And resolve can resist it...what a useless ability.

Edited January 29, 2012 by AcaciaDragon

[Greekeh]

Then they aren't maximizing there DPS. Power Relic + Power Adrenal into Gore + Ravage + Scream = 11k hit on Average. Hell the Relic and Adrenal boost a Scream to 4.2k. You gotta Take risks in PvP and pulling off Ravage from there bars because it can be Interuppted is not a good reason to not use it. Ravage costs no Rage. So to do this little opener you only need 8 Rage. Charge + Battering assault gives you that with room to use a Massacre.

 

Also on your original note, Massacre has a chance to proc 2 Ataru strikes. making each massacre able to hit between 2-3k(with crits) per usage. Add Gore and Berserk plus a Crit Relic and you will hit Really hard really fast. So Carnage does not need a buff, we need tweaks to our skills. If Ravage's uninterrupted talent was somewhere in the Tier 1 section of a talent tree, that would be better. Then we would only have to worry about knock backs or stuns stopping us. Hell even an increase to Chokes damage would be great, 4 seconds of channeling for a 4 second stun we cant take advantage of and 4 rage for only 400 damage a tick...And resolve can resist it...what a useless ability.

 

You sir know what your talking about. I don't think many people have tried carnage enough to realize its full potential. I switched to annihlation for about a week to see what all the fuss was about and it just felt flimsy. 15 seconds for a big hit and those dots just didnt satisfy me. I actually want to physically hit my spell and see the damage. Not have a dot up and let it tick. For me I think im just a better player as carnage and do more damage. You really have to pick your targets though and just cant force charge the first person you see. If theres a big group of people I usually go for the players with no shield. Force charge + BA + Gore + FS + Ravage + Rupture + Force choke and there usually dead.

[AcaciaDragon]

You sir know what your talking about. I don't think many people have tried carnage enough to realize its full potential. I switched to annihlation for about a week to see what all the fuss was about and it just felt flimsy. 15 seconds for a big hit and those dots just didnt satisfy me. I actually want to physically hit my spell and see the damage. Not have a dot up and let it tick. For me I think im just a better player as carnage and do more damage. You really have to pick your targets though and just cant force charge the first person you see. If theres a big group of people I usually go for the players with no shield. Force charge + BA + Gore + FS + Ravage + Rupture + Force choke and there usually dead.

 

I agree, the big difference between a Annhilation and A Carnage Marauder is that a Carnage marauder has to be selective with his targets. If we try to focus a tank down, we dont do much damage and it takes along time to whittle one down, impossible if they have just 1 healer.

 

Annhilation can pick any target and go straight for it. I feel it takes them longer but there dots ignore armor allowing them to be less selective and pick the first person who looks at them wrong to be on there **** list.

 

2 Very different play styles but fun nonetheless.

[Tumri]

Personally I think that reducing the talented total cooldown of Force Scream to 6 seconds and having bloodfrenzy able to have a 100% uptime would do wonders for the class. It would also be nice if they buffed Ataru proc damage a bit. They are fairly weak and buffing them would bring the spec a bit closed to Annihilation's effectiveness

 

IMO Bloodfrenzy shouldn't fall off for a GCD every 6 seconds. It simply limits your usage of Force Scream for no good reason other than bioware's lazyness in tying the rage regen to the expiration of this 6 second buff. They should have honestly just made the rage regen internal while allowing bloodfrenzy to be refreshed with every ataru proc.

 

While I'm spewing out my wishlist I might as well add that I'd love for one of the talents to improve the effectiveness of Ravage by either removing the channel or buffing the damage. Preferably removing the channel.

 

I believe that Carnage has the highest skill floor and the highest skill cap. Annihilation seems to have a low skill floor and a slightly lower skill cap. I love the carnage spec's upfront damage. I was forced to switch to annihilation(for progression's sake) because carnage was subpar in damage. I would love it if they brought carnage up to par.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Tumri

[milkey]

They should just make offhand damage not worthless like it used to be.