sketcherstud Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 I'm currently using a full Lightning (3,31,7) build, which I used for leveling. I've just reached level 50 and would like to provide the best dps (focusing on single target/boss fights) for my guild as possible. The research I've done seems to indicate that switching to a Madness/Lighting hybrid (the two I've seen are 3,7,31 and 0,13,28) build is the best option. I'd love to get feedback and impressions from people who have been running heroic mode flashpoints and operations. I feel very comfortable in a full Lightning build, but will switch to Madness if that will better benefit my guild. If the Madness hybrid build is the way to go, can anybody point me to a stat/rotation guide? Thanks in advance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daellia Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 0/13/28, 0/25/16, and 7/18/16 are currently considered the top dps specs at the moment. The 31-point builds in each tree generally fall noticeably behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natarii Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 I'm a big proponent of playing the game the way YOU enjoy it. There is alot of theory crafting that states the hybrid spec may be the highest dps, but without damage meters and combat logs, no one really knows for sure. If you enjoy lightning spec, by all means, stick with it - we need data from all sources, afterall. I personally enjoy the full madness build and do just fine in operations and hardmodes. I've also recently begun healing and am enjoying that too. Long answer to short question is, the verdict is really still out as to what's 'best' and even that's suspect. My personal feelings are that any differences are probably minimal and likely gear/skill dependent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sketcherstud Posted January 27, 2012 Author Share Posted January 27, 2012 Another question I've got is about Chain Lightning. Most builds seem to rely on it. I've heard that roughly 70% of the pulls in Karaga's Palace require CC. Doesn't that severely gimp a Madness/Lightning hybrid build? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hardicon Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 not if your tanks are good and pulls the mob away from the cc stuff. but its trash, doesnt over hurt you either way, once you get the right stuff cc'ed the rest of the trash goes down easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cempa Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 31 lightning is great sustained DPS and excellent force management. Madness works also if you get the healing talents -as you will be 'taping' -sorry lock for 6 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Natarii Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 I've never really felt the need to 'lifetap' while dps'ing from my full madness build. I use it more when healing because of the buff that makes it free after the channeled heal. Mana regen and conservation is pretty good for madness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iselin Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 31 lightning is great sustained DPS and excellent force management. Madness works also if you get the healing talents -as you will be 'taping' -sorry lock for 6 years. I was a WOW warlock for a long time too. "Tapping" worked there because we had no direct heals and the amounts healed were petty damn good. Madness Sorcs are not a direct comparison to locks mainly because we do get direct heals and a 3K+ damage shield. DPS specced, we are more like Shadow Priests than locks. With our heals and bubble, the tiny amounts healed by Parasitism and Death Field, even if you enhance them with Devour, are a waste of talent points. You can heal in 3s what DF and Para will take 1 minute to do, even if everything crits, you use DF on 3 targets, etc. Bubble + Overload + heal + Force Lightning slow is all you ever need to get rid of something you've aggroed until the tank and healer have a chance to react. We don't usually get a steady stream of small damage hitting us that Para and DF could offset: we typically get spike damage from something where the tiny trickle heals from those abilities would be useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iselin Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 0/13/28, 0/25/16, and 7/18/16 are currently considered the top dps specs at the moment. The 31-point builds in each tree generally fall noticeably behind. I've done those but my current favorite is 0/23/18. The small DPS decrease from losing Conduction and Polarity shift is more than justified by the instant Whirlwind. That isn't just a PVP ability. It comes in handy in PVE to CC something that needs it (add, de-CC'd mob, etc.) mid-fight. It's also very much a PVP-worthy spec. Lightning Effusion, which is up constantly, together with Force Lightning regen, means you'll have a tough time not being at 80%+ Force no matter how long the fight lasts... and this is going full blast. There are a few tweaks that could be made according to personal preference. If you don't want the 3-mob CC + reduced Electrocute CD, you could increase the Shock DPS if you find yourself kiting a lot or take a 2% damage reduction. On the Lightning side of things you may want the extra range for CL instead of the unnecessary point in electric induction and/or you may want the 15s CD reduction on WW instead of the Overload root. Neither of those affects your DPS, just your utility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sketcherstud Posted January 27, 2012 Author Share Posted January 27, 2012 I've done those but my current favorite is 0/23/18. The small DPS decrease from losing Conduction and Polarity shift is more than justified by the instant Whirlwind. That isn't just a PVP ability. It comes in handy in PVE to CC something that needs it (add, de-CC'd mob, etc.) mid-fight. It's also very much a PVP-worthy spec. Lightning Effusion, which is up constantly, together with Force Lightning regen, means you'll have a tough time not being at 80%+ Force no matter how long the fight lasts... and this is going full blast. There are a few tweaks that could be made according to personal preference. If you don't want the 3-mob CC + reduced Electrocute CD, you could increase the Shock DPS if you find yourself kiting a lot or take a 2% damage reduction. On the Lightning side of things you may want the extra range for CL instead of the unnecessary point in electric induction and/or you may want the 15s CD reduction on WW instead of the Overload root. Neither of those affects your DPS, just your utility. Thanks, I'll try out that build tonight. What do you use as a priority rotation? I'm not a fan of Shock, as it seems to be a waste since it activates the GCD and that time could be better spent on a stronger ability. Also, it seems like the majority of flashpoint trash use blasters, so do you find the Overload root to be worth it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iselin Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Thanks, I'll try out that build tonight. What do you use as a priority rotation? I'm not a fan of Shock, as it seems to be a waste since it activates the GCD and that time could be better spent on a stronger ability. Also, it seems like the majority of flashpoint trash use blasters, so do you find the Overload root to be worth it? The best use for overload root is in PVP when someone jumps you from stealth or to distance yourself from a meleer...PVE, not all that useful really. If you're thinking PVE only, imho suppresion is the better option since you will be using Jolt quite a bit and the 45s WW also comes in handy. My rotation for single target is Afflicion -> Force Lightning and then use the instant cast procs for CL and Crushing Darkness. Sometimes CL won't be appropriate if you have things CC'd near where the tank is. In those cases replace CL with Lightning Strike. The reason I start with Affliction and always keep it up is to proc lightning barrage. For AOEing trash down you've got all kinds of options: if they're normal/weak Death Field followed by Force Storm. If it's strong and/or elites, Death field + FL spam to proc CL and then CL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sketcherstud Posted January 27, 2012 Author Share Posted January 27, 2012 The best use for overload root is in PVP when someone jumps you from stealth or to distance yourself from a meleer...PVE, not all that useful really. If you're thinking PVE only, imho suppresion is the better option since you will be using Jolt quite a bit and the 45s WW also comes in handy. My rotation for single target is Afflicion -> Force Lightning and then use the instant cast procs for CL and Crushing Darkness. Sometimes CL won't be appropriate if you have things CC'd near where the tank is. In those cases replace CL with Lightning Strike. The reason I start with Affliction and always keep it up is to proc lightning barrage. For AOEing trash down you've got all kinds of options: if they're normal/weak Death Field followed by Force Storm. If it's strong and/or elites, Death field + FL spam to proc CL and then CL. And what stats do you go for with a build like this? Seems like you'd still want Alacrity like you would with a full Lightning Build, because it sounds like Force Lightning is your bread and butter. I assume it would be Willpower>Force/Power>Alacrity>Crit>Surge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyonme Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 I've done those but my current favorite is 0/23/18. The small DPS decrease from losing Conduction and Polarity shift is more than justified by the instant Whirlwind. That isn't just a PVP ability. It comes in handy in PVE to CC something that needs it (add, de-CC'd mob, etc.) mid-fight. It's also very much a PVP-worthy spec. Lightning Effusion, which is up constantly, together with Force Lightning regen, means you'll have a tough time not being at 80%+ Force no matter how long the fight lasts... and this is going full blast. There are a few tweaks that could be made according to personal preference. If you don't want the 3-mob CC + reduced Electrocute CD, you could increase the Shock DPS if you find yourself kiting a lot or take a 2% damage reduction. On the Lightning side of things you may want the extra range for CL instead of the unnecessary point in electric induction and/or you may want the 15s CD reduction on WW instead of the Overload root. Neither of those affects your DPS, just your utility. Why do you waste 2 points for 100 force? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daellia Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Why do you waste 2 points for 100 force? Reserves also increases the force return from Sith Efficacy. Arguable in a build that efficient, but Reserves is better than Electric Induction in any build that has Sith Efficacy (or Force Surge on the healing side), so you're kinda stuck with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iselin Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Reserves also increases the force return from Sith Efficacy. Arguable in a build that efficient, but Reserves is better than Electric Induction in any build that has Sith Efficacy (or Force Surge on the healing side), so you're kinda stuck with it. What's better in the bottom 2 tiers? That would be why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iselin Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Why do you waste 2 points for 100 force? I still gear for crit/surge ahead of alacrity... if I can. But it's tough not to get a lot of Alacrity with end-game gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E_c_c_e Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Hmm that build is intriguing...although I wonder if the 13/28 doesn't come out on top dmg wise...I really have to finally hit 50 and test the force sustain of that specc in a proper environment (hc operations)...Because at the moment I can't really say whether this specc has trouble going with the main rotation through a longer fight since I don't have any longer fights xD I just kinda like that Affliction, Death Field and Crushing Darkness hit hard since there is a few fights where movement is important (and instacasts are awesome). Also Lightning Storm is rather useless if you have wrath and I wonder whether those 30% bonus Arcs from CL really justify loosing the Affliction / Death Field buff. The only thing I would love to be able to pick up is Lightning Effusion since that would totally nullify the force problems (if there really are any). Then again I could pick it up but I would pay for it with the loss of Creeping Death and half of Lingering Nightmares... It's just way hard to decide since both sides have good arguments going for them... guess I'll just have to see how it's like at lvl 50 in ops... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silvarr Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 And what stats do you go for with a build like this? Seems like you'd still want Alacrity like you would with a full Lightning Build, because it sounds like Force Lightning is your bread and butter. I assume it would be Willpower>Force/Power>Alacrity>Crit>Surge. No, Force lightning is the bread and butter of any madness or madness hybrid (16 or more in madness). Lightning strike is the bread and butter of the lightning tree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashnazg Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 guess I'll just have to see how it's like at lvl 50 in ops... Personally, I run 23/18 because I hate running out of force. With a 13/28 it is still possible to run oom in very long fights or AoE fights, especially if you do other things (e.g. toss out emergency shields, heal, etc). With 23/18 you can forget about the force bar, and imagine yourself to be a resource-free vehicle of destruction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrekorSilverfang Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 http://sithwarrior.com/forums/Thread-Madness-Balance-Sorcerer-DPS-Compendium--573 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts