What triggers "last resort" < 3 full servers? < 100K subs? Just curious.

See you ther in 80 minutes Iselin -- Elementalist -- Fort Aspenwood

MMO design 101... don't p*** off the tanks and healers... are tanks next? ...omly 80 minutes left before the GW2 beta weekend

On my Tankassin I can still solo one of the H2+ heroics in the first daily area of Belsavis (the one where fighting a champ is the only requirement) but the other one that used to be soloable because you could interact with the item while fighting, can't be done any longer because fighting prevents the interaction now. The H2+ on the 2nd part that also has a champ fight I only tried once since 1.2 and had my a** handed to me due to that annoying pulsing damage aura. On a side note, in the new Black Hole area H4, I snuck down to the champ who has the key sitting on a couch, and soloed him and his 2 normal adds with Talos healing. But then you get stuck in the last area...found out that punting the mobs over the edge at the back doesn't help since it bugs the fight and they respawn ... oh well

Sorcerers solo well early no matter what. You get two base heals and a bubble as base abilties as well as a 60 second CC. You have all of that by the time you're 14. If you go heals your fights will be slow until you get your 2nd companion (DPS) in Tatooine. After that Heals soloing is fine. DPS with a bit of bubbling and healing your tank companion is probably best until then. Later on in your 40s, healing has a huge advantage on what fights you can solo. DPS sorcs have a hard time with champs then but healers don't. Having said all that, I just leveled my 2nd 50, an Tankasin (31/0/10) and soloing was ridiculously easy with him and my healer companion. I thought they would be slow but thei DPS is much better than I ever imagined. Healer + tank is a powerful combo but now that I've done it both ways, I think it works best when the companion is the healer and you're the tank.

Fair enough as long as you do use affliction to trigger effusion. I'm sure there are several slightly different specs built around the same idea that would work well. For example, I've never found Lightning Spire to be all that useful in specs where you're mixing damage abilities (Affliction, FL, etc) that don't benefit with those that do (LS, CL.) I actually find it a pain managing those 5 meteres. Also I'm quite willing to give-up a point or 2 in Electric Induction in any spec that uses Effusion. It's not needed as much. I think I'll give this variation a shot: http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#201GhMRMdMzZdcMMdRr.1

Unfortunately there is nothing new about that complaint. I have heard it in the PVP discussions of every MMO I've eevr played. People just hate healers in PVP...period. And in "people" I include some mediocre developers who give in to the whiners. The funny thing is that a pressured healer reduced to nothing but self-healing for the sake of survival is totally neutralized by one DPSer. If people thought in terms of team goals, they would see that as a good thing

I've never played your exact spec but I have farted around with similar specs that rely on effusion for force cost reductions. Curious why you're not putting 2/2 in Exanguinate and relying on the instant cast Affliction giving you several crits to trigger Effusion during it's 21 second duration. It just seems to me that it takes less time away from healing.

Very well said. I totally agree. BW seems to be settling in to the old-fashioned paternalistic way of changing the game--not unlike the way Sony did with the firts SW MMO many years ago--and this is a disturbing trend. I find the naive optimism of many players here reminiscent of the discussions about the drastic changes made there. If you recall, there were many supporters of the changes that ultimately destroyed SWG. "BW knows what it's doing, it'll be fine" say the optimists and the detailed critiques of the changes by very knowledgeable players are dismissed on the basis that people always dislike nerfs. Well it's true that we do. But it's also true that not all nerfs are equal and some are more worthy of criticism than others...and 1.2 is a real head scratcher. But as you said, the real disturbing thing here is the lack of clear communication and detailed explanations about why they chose to do what they did. It's ironic that while this is happening here, there was a developer panel at PAX East discussing the future of MMOs with all the heavy hitters from the industry participating (If you're interested: http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm/loadFeature/6283/PAX-East-The-Future-of-Online-Games.html ) If there was a common theme that was echoed by all the devs there, it was the idea that player freedom is key and that they make changes based on what we want to make it more fun for everyone. While it's true that some companies sem to be trying to do just that (Arenanet, Trion, Funcom, etc.) there are some that seem to be stuck in a 2002 time warp where they do things almost exactly the way they were done 10 years ago, including an obvious lack of respect for the intelligence of the players. I'm sorry but "Trust us, we know best!" doesn't really cut it any more... not that it ever really did, but 10 years ago we didn't have many choices. Now we do. The idea that we all have to "work" harder at healing--having no time to do anything but heal--seems to me like the worst possible regressive and unwarranted class design change. Is that what we were asking for? So yeah, it's not really just the nerfs (although they are bad enough and limit our choices even more) it's the attitude that's hard to take.

If you had built any credibility, you just lost it all right there. Do you really believe the people who designed this class were too stupid to see that CL could be used with Wrath procs? That only the "exploiting" players could see it? God you're an idiot if you think that was unintentional. I saw many beta patches and class design was one of the priorities...not just "avoid crashes" as you claim. Remember the base FL 10 meter nerf? All of this stuff went through a lot of careful scrutiny and was released with the 13/28 hybrid as not only possible but as the most popular and discussed sorc dps spec in the beta forums. What this nerf means is a deliberate change in design not an "oh s**t, we didn't mean to do that!" as you imply. Calling it an exploit just shows your ignorant petty bias. And leaving the DPS reduction aside for a moment, at the very least 1.2 forces a significant change in play style for a lot of us... and no, we didn't pick sorc/sage because it was OP. We picked it because it's the one and only magic-user-like class in the game and/or because it's a Jedi. People made those choices long before they even knew how the class played. I want to be neither a full time dotter nor a full time turret. I find both of those sorcerer play styles lacking and boring... so as far as I'm concerned, BW just took all the fun out of this class for me. Someone who claims to have as many 50 characters as you do while being a biologist (any other claims that grant you special "knowledgeable dude" status I missed?) might just have noticed how abilities in one tree complement and enhance those from another tree for all classes...you have noticed that haven't you? If that's not promoting mixing spec trees I don't know what is. If the devs really do prefer for people to go 31 points in one tree all they have to do is make the 26-31 point abilities be worthwhile. If they're vanilla garbage, people won't spec 26-31--it's that simple. Also, before you continue trying to puff your cred up with beta references, I have to point out that you got here in November 2011. At most you did 2 beta weekends, likely just one

So, for the sake of finishing off this thread in a way that may help other new sorcerers, what made the difference for you in the end?

You need to interrupt his Force Choke as I recall. Jolt becomes progressively more important in your 40's and beyond.

Those casual gamers who normally don't bother with forums will go to those forums and ask questions when they are having a hard time doing something they think they should be able to do. As long as they do nothing but solo PVE leveling, they should be mostly ok (although there are some class story fights that were already challenging and will be more so after 1.2.) If they try anything else, I predict they will be here in large numbers very soon. The next "milestone" is coming up in 3 weeks for those who chose the 3-month plan. Hopefuly there will be some experienced Sorcerers left to help out the noobs after that.

You're right. We don't trust their metrics and why should we? They have never engaged us in a rational discussion of what their data shows and what it means. On the other hand we do have a lot of thoughtful discussion here from intelligent players about our own numbers and play experience. Yeah we trust that more because it's open to debate and peer review... unlike the secretive "One Database to Rule Them All." Here's another reality check: You... do... not... play... a... sorcerer. And this just makes you a typical internet expert... proud of your blissful ignorance. You have mentioned the 2.5% DPS reduction you obviously got from the theorycrafting at Sithwarrior.com. The problem is you neither have the context nor, apparently, the wherewithall to make sense of it. So here it goes in easily digestible bits: 1. Losing instant Chain Lightning from Wrath procs is (approximately) a 2.5% average DPS reduction to sustained DPS in no-movement boss fights (where a DPSer does nothing but try to maximize the rotation and trinkets) to the 13/28 hybrid spec. 2. Before losing that 2.5%, this top Sorcerer DPS spec was already >25% below Marauders and Snipers in sustained DPS. 3. Those numbers have nothing to do with heavy movement fights where that spec loses quite a bit. The top heavy-movement spec 7/16/16 +2, has been killed by removing the instant CL it depended on. 4. The lack of PVP burst was there before 1.2 and is made worse by it. 5. The only people who thought that Sorcerers needed toning down are those easily impressed by WZ scoreboards where the fact that our best single target ability also happens to be an AOE (another reason why we tend not to believe that the BW class design team knows how to build a class.) This is an obvious stat inflator by splashing colateral damage on inocent bystanders we give no s**t about damaging since we're just trying to burst that one guy. An obvious solution is increasing the damage of our single target ability, Lightning Strike to make it worth using...they didn't do that. They just toned down our ability to impress idiots with high WZ scoreboard numbers by taking CL away from most specs. As to you being done with this thread... f***ing finally! It's annoying seeing the belligerent uninformed poluting our forum.

It was the "fix me or I quit" drama I found amusing...especially considering you find complaints about dumb decissions you know nothing about from experience "hilarious"

I guess we all have our pet peeves. Here's a clue: It''s usually something we know something about. In typical MMO forum discussion fashion I just have to add... if you keep getting shafted by the RNG and you totally lose interest, can I have your stuff?

That's why some well-designed DOTers in other MMOs have "DOT spreaders" as high level abilities (e.g. the Rift Warlock's 6th tier Radiate Death ability that spreads 2 DOTs to up to 6 others) which put real, not theoretical, pressure on the other team. The only DOT we have that can be effectively spread is Affliction and even that is at the cost of of one GCD per target. As currently designed, we are only putting pressure on one individual and only if a healer on the other side is oblivious to what we're doing since they can shrug us off with one instant cast. We have a lot of abilities in our class which are indicative of an overly-cautious design philosophy... Parasitism's empty promise of self-healing through damage is one of the prime examples. The lack of an AOE DOT spreader is another.

I always assumed several others would also have come-up with it. The surprising part was seeing it billed as a post 1.2 coping build. Frankly, I've never had much hope for that build as anything other than a daily grinder. Yeah I noticed that after the speeded-up part of your video. Maybe in a 17-man? I wasn't really serious about raiding with this. It was more of an ironic jest about reserving a spot in a raid to heal the self-consuming post 1.2 Sorcerer Healers. I've posted elsewhere about how all that was really needed to bring our force regen under control was to add a 50% force regen penalty to consumption when used with the current, no health lost, Force Surge Proc... but what do I know? I just play the game... (If interested, see: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=383054) Yeah, I liked the AOE one. Cheers.

Wow! I can't believe someone is taking my wacky Corruption/Lightning effusion build seriously... maybe I should have! I first posted about it back on the 6th of February: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=272435&highlight=effusion&page=2 And then again a few days ago. (can't find that one.) But no one has ever discussed it here. I do have one comment about your video though. You're talking about triggering effusion through Force Lightning crits for that build. A better solution is to trigger it off Affliction crits so that non-healing time is minimized. This just requires 1 GCD every 21 seconds to manage. If it's not triggering often enough off Affliction crits (it should) you could always supplement it with FL. Anyway.... did you actually try to main heal with this in the PTS or just support? I've thought that in Raids that have a spare slot (lol) this would be the ideal build for healing the (now) self-damaging Sorc healers.

Shhh! Don't rain on my post-1.2 coping mechanism. My Dark/Mad Assasin is only level 26 so I'm just starting to build the juicy Madness part. I remember all the beta whines from Sins about how bad their levelling experience was and since they've hardly changed since beta, I'm just scratching my head while I faceroll through stuff my Sorc had to handle carefully. So, quit it with all the anti-Sin stuff and come over and join me

4th tier, far left, 1 point...Lightning Storm.

Don't want to waste a lot of time defending an ability that is more "Hollywood" than anything else but for some specs, Force Storm is actually force positive It only costs 41 force with a lightning effusion proc + 3/3 Electric Induction. You regain 48 while channelling so you end up with +7. I use it all the time for trivial trash. With the extra 10% damage I get from Suffusion and the CC it's sort of fun... can't say I've ever used it in a fight that matters though.

You're right. I was confused about you. I underestimated the extent of your hate and zealotry about any changes that don't fit your unique view of hybrids and pures. You want the obvious non-mobile spec to be mobile and in your zealotry are rejecting the validity of hybrid specs and want nothing but self-contained trees. Sort of like the post-Cataclysm Blizzard class design world-view. That opinion fits "stupid" a lot more than things you're raging about. I don't want limits that result in nothing more than 3 predesigned subclasses posing as "freedom of choice". That's an extreme version of Theme Park MMO I want no part of. And as to your "don't want to use no stinking LS with no wrath, no how, noway" rant, let me point out the obvious: LS is a base ability that we all have. What I'd like to see is more use for all base abilities, including our stunted melee, in all 3 trees not less. So...my mistake. I thought I was responding to a logical intelligent person. Obviously not. I'm also tired of feeding you. Have fun in your thread.

Thanks for doing that. Interesting results. Live numbers are always a bit lower than ideal simul crafted ones but yours are even lower than what I would expect to see. The difference between live and PTS almost hints at some other unreported reductions... A co-efficient nerf? Since the dummy and mob numbers are similar, it doesn't look like resistances are responsible for the discrepancy between simul crafted and parsed numbers. Too bad you're not a healer, the HPS, force regen and self-damage would be interesting to see. But I'm not even sure the new logs help since, as I understand, over-healing is not tracked. I'm sure someone not happy with your results will claim that your results are somehow invalid. Looks like a fair but disturbing test to me.

I understand the design team's desire to tone down Sorcerer healer's force regeneration, I just think that they're going about it the wrong way. If this solution has been mentioned somewhere in the thousands of other Sorc 1.2 posts, I haven't seen it and I suspect neither have many other Sorc healers. Everyone is complaining about how the Force Surge nerf means that sorcerer healers will take a lot of extra damage. My problem with its design is more basic: why do main healers take damage at all to regenerate Force? We typically see this "sacrifice" type mechanic in classes that can do some healing but really aren't meant to be main healers...like Warlocks, Paladins before Blizzard elevated them to main healer status, our own DPS or hybrid Sorcerers, etc. Having this in a main healing class in any MMO just feels gimmicky. I have no problem with consumption itself causing damage since non-healer DPS sorcerers also have the ability. The self-damage seems appropriate for them and consumption is only meant to be used in a dire emergency. Besides they have umpteen other viable ways of managing Force. But it just seems wrong that a main healer should have that extra hassle when using their one and only viable force regen ability...which is why Force Surge, an ability that requires a 26-27 point investment in the healing tree, had an appropriate removal of the health penalty. It's high enough the tree that it's not available for DPSers or hybrids. If too much force regen was the issue they were tring to address, wouldn't it have been easier to just reduce the force return of consumption in those occasions where the health penalty was removed? i.e. have Force Surge, for example halve the Force return of consumption in addition to everything else it does. Seems like a more elegant solution than this kludgy nerf that makes Force Surge no longer look like a 26-27 point ability. Healers would then have 2 options for force regen: more force return with a health penalty or less but without loss of health. And while we're at it, having Dark Resilence reduce the health penalty to 14 or 13% seems like a waste. Wouldn't it be better for it to take away the half or the full native regen penalty that Consumption triggers for the next 10 seconds? What do you guys think?