Storm/Gut

[Krunktruck]

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801hRGbboroMZrsrbo0zZb.1

 

That's what I'm thinking about running for PvP. I see a lot of "that doesn't make you good at anything" posts but with all the complaining about shields not helping you much in pvp how much does counter attack really help your survivability? all I'm really missin out on with this spec is 10% more damage from Rip's bleed and rebraced armor which is nice but not a game changer. I live just about as long as a full shield spec Vanguard, i have a little extra damage on the side and a shorter cool down on my interrupt. Any feedback would be nice.

[grandmasterub]

Ive found that for me putting all those points in shield spec doesn't give an appreciable difference survivability overjust running ion cell in a different spec.

 

I prefer a full tactics spec, running ion cell, with enough points in shield to get the snare and ioncell proc on stockstrike.

 

I also find HTL more useful for WZs than storm

[Zekoisop]

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801hRGbboroMZrsrbo0zZb.1

 

That's what I'm thinking about running for PvP. I see a lot of "that doesn't make you good at anything" posts but with all the complaining about shields not helping you much in pvp how much does counter attack really help your survivability? all I'm really missin out on with this spec is 10% more damage from Rip's bleed and rebraced armor which is nice but not a game changer. I live just about as long as a full shield spec Vanguard, i have a little extra damage on the side and a shorter cool down on my interrupt. Any feedback would be nice.

 

Gut isn't really useful tbh. Most people get it for a free dot to proc their HIB. Otherwise both its upfront damage and bleed is really lame though the animation looks cool .

 

 

Shield isn't as bad as you think it is right now. While it does nothing against tech and force attacks there are still a good amount of melee/ranged attacks players do between their rotatations that cumulatively deal a lot of damage.

 

My current spec is 31/9/2 and I'm happy with it for now. My playstyle revolves around stockstrike when dpsing but in WZsi/PVP my focus is objectives/protecting which SS does very well. I don't find the 5 points in the shield chance buff a total waste since there isn't much else i can put them into that's really that much better.

 

Again the increased shield chance still blocks a good amount of damage since in PVP people do do melee/range attacks in their rotations ( especially melee) and it works well with my shield cycler giving me really good ammo regen was well as energy blast which does ELEMENTAL damage so a good crit on EB will still do about 1k damage and refund me ammo.

 

You don't need gut because in the SS build everything is about stockstrike. A stockstr will proc Ion which opens up HIB for you. sticky- Harpoon or Storm - stockstr - HIB - EB - Ion pulse spam , rinse and repeat --- between ur high shield chance + 100 ammo regen from cycler and EB you will have all the ammo in the world to spam IP. Interupt with riot strike or cryogrenade whenever u can and try to get a nice pulse generator off when you freeze someone. Gut really isn't necessary with all these abilities revolving around a strong stockstrike.

 

Also you are still a good tank in PVE with this build meaning u don't have to respec or convince your team ur a dps when LFG.

[Zekoisop]

Ive found that for me putting all those points in shield spec doesn't give an appreciable difference survivability overjust running ion cell in a different spec.

 

I prefer a full tactics spec, running ion cell, with enough points in shield to get the snare and ioncell proc on stockstrike.

 

I also find HTL more useful for WZs than storm

 

I like a full tactics spec too , if for anything , for the fun. It's rather funny and fun to go around running fast ( speed buff) shanking people with ur knife. The main combo I use in a 31 tactics is Fire Burst > Stockstr > Gut > HIB and then just Ion Pulse spam. Tactics really buff ion pulse's damage to where you almost always crit and ur critting for like 1100-1400 per zap.

 

I always run HEC instead of Ion in tactics. I mean you need to. You need the cell regeneration primarily since if you play tactics right you will be spending a lot of ammo on ion pulse spam.

 

The pulse generator is really nice in this spec too if you take the buff talent. 5 stacks give you 50% bonus elemental damage ... it becomes a really nasty AOE which will easily bag you 2-3 medals and the 'immortal' title in very short time.

 

The problem with tactics is that its overall DPS for a 'damage' tree is still lacking or is very situational at best. I mean if your good with stack management and hiting ur pulse generator at the right time you'll top lists in damage pretty easily but most people seem to have a hard time with a melee style of fighting with a ranged class.

 

You also need good gear if you run tactics correctly which means with HEC instead of Ion. This is why I prefer SS right now because I'm not geared yet ( I am 50 though) and Ion/Shield helps my durability a lot until better gear comes. When I do have full cent/champ/bm gear then I might look into tactics again. It's fun and suits my playstyle tbh.

 

And running Ion with a full tactic tree isn't so good. You start hurting on ammo. No reason to give up free ammo regen , damage , and move spd from HEC especially if running tactics.

[Darguth]

Gut isn't really useful tbh. Most people get it for a free dot to proc their HIB. Otherwise both its upfront damage and bleed is really lame though the animation looks cool .

 

 

Shield isn't as bad as you think it is right now. While it does nothing against tech and force attacks there are still a good amount of melee/ranged attacks players do between their rotatations that cumulatively deal a lot of damage.

 

My current spec is 31/9/2 and I'm happy with it for now. My playstyle revolves around stockstrike when dpsing but in WZsi/PVP my focus is objectives/protecting which SS does very well. I don't find the 5 points in the shield chance buff a total waste since there isn't much else i can put them into that's really that much better.

 

Again the increased shield chance still blocks a good amount of damage since in PVP people do do melee/range attacks in their rotations ( especially melee) and it works well with my shield cycler giving me really good ammo regen was well as energy blast which does ELEMENTAL damage so a good crit on EB will still do about 1k damage and refund me ammo.

 

You don't need gut because in the SS build everything is about stockstrike. A stockstr will proc Ion which opens up HIB for you. sticky- Harpoon or Storm - stockstr - HIB - EB - Ion pulse spam , rinse and repeat --- between ur high shield chance + 100 ammo regen from cycler and EB you will have all the ammo in the world to spam IP. Interupt with riot strike or cryogrenade whenever u can and try to get a nice pulse generator off when you freeze someone. Gut really isn't necessary with all these abilities revolving around a strong stockstrike.

 

Also you are still a good tank in PVE with this build meaning u don't have to respec or convince your team ur a dps when LFG.

 

This.

 

I play Shield in PVP as well and I'm quite happy with it. I don't smoke people down but I live for a *long* time and in that time I'm able to offer a lot of control and protection to the group. I'd take Storm over Gut just because of the interrupting affect. That extra interrupt on a reasonably short cooldown and with ranged is awesome at allowing you to lock out a healer; which I find is one of the most useful things I can do in group PVP.

[Zekoisop]

^ Gut doesn't compare to storm. Storm is so much better in so many ways that it doesn't even deserve a discussion. Also I'm an undergeared 50 ( barely turned 50 this week) and now in WZs against mostly geared Imperial 50s I can still put out around 145k ish damage as a shield spec vanguard.

 

Against a god-tier geared team you won't survive for a long time. It doesn't matter what spec you run. If your an ungeared assult vanguard you might drop .278 seconds faster than an SS vanguard to some imps focusing you. They key as a vanguard is :

 

- Move around , a lot. You have the mobility.

 

- Survey the field instead of diving in like a Guardian. You have a tactical pull which can literally change the fight around.

 

- Use your taunts , always. They ought to be your priority abilities.

 

- Never be a lone

 

- Guard a healer and hope he's nice enough to stick next to you.

 

- Time ur riot strike and interrupts. I see too many vanguards just working riot strike into their rotation and wasting ammo and the opportunity to damage. Have RS on a easy hotkey but be ever mindful of the blue bar. If there is another raget spamming spells then storm to him and RS when u see their blue bar.

 

 

And other things too but that's what comes to mind first.

[grandmasterub]

I like a full tactics spec too , if for anything , for the fun. It's rather funny and fun to go around running fast ( speed buff) shanking people with ur knife. The main combo I use in a 31 tactics is Fire Burst > Stockstr > Gut > HIB and then just Ion Pulse spam. Tactics really buff ion pulse's damage to where you almost always crit and ur critting for like 1100-1400 per zap.

 

I always run HEC instead of Ion in tactics. I mean you need to. You need the cell regeneration primarily since if you play tactics right you will be spending a lot of ammo on ion pulse spam.

 

And running Ion with a full tactic tree isn't so good. You start hurting on ammo. No reason to give up free ammo regen , damage , and move spd from HEC especially if running tactics.

 

I'm lvl 30. I never have ammo issues. I get 8+ medals per game, I am top 3 in kills 90% of the time. My damage per game is usually between 180k-210k. I guess I must just "do it right" but tactics/ion with no pvp gear works for me. I'm not saying I'm invincible, I still get torn up a lot, but I bring the pain as well.

[Krunktruck]

^ Gut doesn't compare to storm. Storm is so much better in so many ways that it doesn't even deserve a discussion.

 

I'm not saying that. I'd take Storm over Gut any day. And yeah, i know gut isn't really worth the points but would 2 seconds off our silence make it worth it since half the entire empire population play a Merc or a Sorc?

 

So basically its 6% more ion pulse damage + a quicker silence vs more shields that only defend against 1/3rd of the abilities out there and the weak shot that gives us ammo. I'd only pick up gut because its there but nobody says you have to. you could even throw a few points into Counter attack instead for the shield proc.

[DeputyDan]

My current tanking tree is 30 in SS and 11 in tactics. I haven't found the "perfect" PvP spec for my play style yet, but I know I can't drop storm and I can't drop gut.

 

Being able to choose between fighting your enemy where you are (harpoon) or where they are (storm) is critical to good PvP. The immobilize you get with both (assuming you get defensive measures, and seriously, why is no one spec'ing for this in PvP?) allows you to pull your enemies away from their allies so your teammates can gank them, or delay them from reaching an objective. The huttball application is obvious, but you need to think about other situations. Intercepting someone coming from mid to support their outside turret on alderaan. Immobilizing someone in the middle of a friendly aoe in front of a door on void star. Taking the lead (but not too far ahead of the heals) to draw psychological aggro when attacking. You can do most of these with a well-placed harpoon, but even if it's off cooldown you need to position yourself, rather than simply take advantage of their poor positioning. Remember, you can use your tenacity equivalent to pop out of a snare, but having a full resolve bar won't stop snares from working. Never dropping storm.

 

What's amazing me is the negativity on gut. I originally spec'ed for energy blast, and when I saw the initial debate between them (I don't really buy into the damage comparison, not worth it just for that since I'm so bad at ammo management) I decided to try it out. I learned very quickly that you do not get gut for the damage. You get gut for the 15 sec dot. Several times when I got caught alone defending a turret I'd run around gutting everyone I could before I died (if you want to talk about being able to take on 3 v 1 and surviving, defending probably isn't a good use of your time) and by the time I took the quick speeder back they'd all still be too busy bleeding to slice the turret and I'd have another gut for each of them. Slightly less applicable on voidstar, since your wait could be too long for even a timely gut to stop them, but still clutch, especially since attackers usually won't focus the tanks and defenders are rarely observant enough when trying to disarm the bomb to notice the guy spreading dots to everyone. Huttball is the clear winner, with no ill-effect on objectives from dots, and people can still stealth while bleeding, but a 15 sec dot has stopped me on huttball from trying to heal when the health power-ups were already gone.

 

Just go for both. Debate the stuff in between.

[origional]

Spec up, play its, and see if you like it. Posting your specs on here just invites the cookie cutter monsters to come out and eat you. Edited January 28, 2012 by origional

[Fdzzaigl]

I play 21/2/18 and am happy with that, HIB becomes a great staple move and Incendiary Round's long duration ranged DoT is very useful in warzones + it always allows you to cast HIB when the cooldown is off.

 

I played 30/11 before but really didn't see gut as being very useful. I also had the (bad) reflex to gut every target around me, which caused ammo issues, the added shield chance wasn't useful either, as you're probably aware of.

 

Still taking supercommando gear from PvP (for PvE reasons), I'm hoping they make shields a bit better.

Edited January 29, 2012 by Fdzzaigl

[Zekoisop]

Update on my build.

 

I just recently changed to 28-11-2. I took gut , again. I gave up counterattack because I'm getting better gear now and my raw mitigation ( ion cell + ion shield + power armor + static field + expertise ) really takes care of all my defensive issues.

 

All my gear is Eliminator stuff so it focuses on crit and surge with some power mixed in. The set bonus with 15% crit to HIB will be really nice though the other bonus is commando only .

 

My rotation ? Sticky > Storm > Stock > HIB > Pulse > Hammer or Gut. Rinse and repeat. I save my harpoon for certain situations and those might be :

 

- All kinds of stuff in Hutball. Pulling into to traps , pulling back enemy ball carrier into pit or trap.

 

- Voidstar , pull off bridge.

 

- In General : I like to separate players from eachother especially a healer from his target or from his guard carrier. Long range interrupt. A good opener so we get a numerical advantage with pull and burn. Or in Ilum for basically free valor / daily-weekly quests.

 

Shield cyclers , reserve power cell , and reload usally keep my ammo up its just that i can't spam Ion pulse as much as I like

 

And for the guy that said he never has ammo problems. Sure , I agree if that's all you're doing. But I go through quite a bit of ammo because I'm using my skills contantly as needed and they are always needed. Plus I cycle through skills fast. Always taunt , I mean always do it if you're not doing it then your risking not helping ur team as you should. Use explosive surge situationally and are you riot striking those casters? Are you spamming IP for faster kills? You do all this properly as you should and you'll finally notice ammo starting to become an issue but that's why they added talents for that. IF you play tactics correctly , as intended , then you will do a high amount of dps but be ammo demanding.

 

Gut does have its use in Voidstar and Civil War as it prevents capping for 15 seconds.

Edited January 30, 2012 by Zekoisop