arnoldlol Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 After going back 50+ pages in this forum, I haven't seen a single thread with more than one page that has related to this subject. I understand this could be be for a number of reasons, but I want to at least be sure there's a chance Bioware will see this, even if they are already aware. I'll start off by saying, kudos on the first tier of operations! Overall I had a good time seeing the encounters and working through most of the mechanics you put in place. As with anything, you can't please everyone - but I feel that for a first tier of content in a new MMO you did well and deserve a pat on the back! Also a disclaimer: When I'm talking about specific tiers of gear (Tionese, Columi, Rakata), I am aware these tiers will be different in future content, it's just easier for comparison sake rather than saying NM/HM/NMM levels of gear specifically. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Normal Mode Normal Mode is a good starting area. The mechanics are forgiving, easy on the healers, enrage isn't difficult to beat and it allows people who don't have tons of time to spend on this game to get their feet wet (and grab some purples)! This isn't the content I focus on but I understand the concept of allowing more people to see the work you guys' put into your game. Suggestions: 1. Auto-Assign Loot. It seems this was implemented to combat ninja-looting, but it seems to be causing more problems than solving. Ninja-looting is something that the majority of us know how to avoid, either by doing guild runs, runs with friends, or runs with people who aren't completely shady and unkown (or known to ninja loot). By auto-assigning loot you are allowing for standard RNG loot, but with the chance that someone who has no use for an item to win it over someone who needs it. This is a problem that can easily be solved. Enable a toggle to turn off auto-assign. 2. Loot Tionese Commendations/Crystals seem to be a pretty big bust. I don't see a reason why Normal isn't dropping Columi Commendations when it's possible to grab 5 piece main-set Columi in one day via Hard Mode Flashpoints. You would have to be very lucky to do so, but it is possible, and I've seen it first hand. Leave Tionese to normal flashpoints and non-end bosses in hard mode flashpoints, and give Columi Commendations to Normal Mode Operations. If a player is looking to raid operations, they're looking to get better gear - not worse gear for doing something that requires more people than a flashpoint. If they don't win Columi gear in an op, at least they would have the option to pick up upgrades from Commendations. The process of collecting Columi Comm. is a slow process as is, speeding it up won't hurt. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Hard Mode Hard Mode is barely a beefed up Normal mode. HM is getting pug'd on my server without issues other than running into time commitment. This seems alright for the most part, but an increased difficulty on hard modes wouldn't be the end of the world. It is hard mode afterall. Suggestions: 1. Difficulty Hard Mode seems like a good place to tune bosses for increased health and damage. This should be where enrage timers come into play so players start to feel the pressure in all roles. Make enrage timers hard to beat without the gear that drops from Hard Mode content. 2. Loot You're currently giving Rakata for Hard Mode encounters, just fewer than Nightmare. This needs to be changed to either A) No Rakata drops from Hard Mode, but introduce Rakata-equivalent items without set bonuses, B) Drop all Rakata and give Nightmare a higher tier of gear altogether. The fact that Hard and Nightmare drop the same loot is an issue that needs to be fixed. These are tiers afterall, and they need to be treated as such since the level of skill and time commitment required changes as you move up in difficulty. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - Nightmare Nightmare is the content I am looking at to improve the most. Being a player who enjoys the challenge of progression and working towards fine tuning the best strategy to down an encounter, I want to see this difficulty level shine. In it's current state, however, Nightmare is not delivering what the hardcore crowd desires. We don't want content that has minimal progression and mostly farm. I don't want to raid one night a week! Make Nightmare difficulty a NIGHTMARE! Suggestions: 1. Add Mechanics Please don't write off Nightmare difficulty and just add damage and healing requirements. Yes, increased damage makes fights "harder" but working through a gear check after you've already seen all the mechanics is not fun. Add new mechanics to learn, make us change strats that might work on easier difficulties but sure as hell won't work on Nightmare. This is supposed to be the difficulty aimed at the hardcore, the players who love being on the edge of progression, competing for quick and undergeared kills! Show us you can develop the cheese grater that our faces so desire! 2. Loot I addressed this in the Hard Mode suggestions but I'll say it again. Sharing loot between difficulties is not a good plan. Separate the gear, reward the players that put in the most time and effort with the stuff that makes others drool. Let us work towards the level of awesome that other players can gawk at, planting in them the desire to improve themselves so they can one day be just as awesome! This also carries over into my next suggestion. 3. Extra Rewards One of the things that the hardcore crowd go nuts over is the "extra." Being recognized for having done some of the most difficult content in the game is something we love! The titles and mounts - the better looking gear, the stuff that sets us apart for having done what we do best. The titles for the timed runs was a good idea, but TOO EASY! Here we are just over a month after launch, and my guild has done everything there is to do in raiding. Please don't let this repeat itself in the next tier. We want to love the **** out of your content, so please give it to us! - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - I believe that'll sum up what I wanted to get out there. Please Bioware, take this into consideration - I believe you can deliver everything stated in this thread, and TOR definitely needs it! I can't even count how many people I've talked to that are counting on the second tier of content to deliver so we're not left with that game nobody likes to talk about. Thanks for reading, and please voice your opinion and support! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ugugg Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 I'm not doings ops yet, but your suggestions are good. Gear progression is great through each tier and nightmare shouldn't be cleared so quickly either. But its hard not to if gear is obtained so easily. Definitely like the suggestion regarding loots distribution though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnoldlol Posted January 27, 2012 Author Share Posted January 27, 2012 I'm not doings ops yet, but your suggestions are good. Gear progression is great through each tier and nightmare shouldn't be cleared so quickly either. But its hard not to if gear is obtained so easily. Definitely like the suggestion regarding loots distribution though.Nightmare still should not be the cake-walk it is currently, even with full columi and a sprinkling of rakata. :\ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilTrollGuy Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Nightmare still should not be the cake-walk it is currently, even with full columi and a sprinkling of rakata. :\ -IMO normal should be challeging for well.. normal people who has work, kids and stuff like that. - Hard should be where most raid players are be challenged and have a hard time. - Nightmare should obviously be for the most experienced raiders. This way every gamer group should be pleased and the content last for longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chorusgirl Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 The nightmare modes are currently way to easy. If we could as a 8 man raid just roll in, never doing the fights before, clear it in one night - it's too easy. People cry about nightmares being unkillable but you want these fights to be at that level. There should be at least 2-3 bosses which are walls to your raid that get nerfed slowly over the course of a few weeks till some guilds can kill them. Please Please Please add a /roll to the game too, it would make loot distribution much easier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ookiniyasashi Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 +1 Awesome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shedari Posted January 27, 2012 Share Posted January 27, 2012 Difficulty definitely needs to be increased for nightmare. P.S. +1 Awesome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnoldlol Posted January 28, 2012 Author Share Posted January 28, 2012 The nightmare modes are currently way to easy. If we could as a 8 man raid just roll in, never doing the fights before, clear it in one night - it's too easy. People cry about nightmares being unkillable but you want these fights to be at that level. There should be at least 2-3 bosses which are walls to your raid that get nerfed slowly over the course of a few weeks till some guilds can kill them. Please Please Please add a /roll to the game too, it would make loot distribution much easier This! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tucco Posted January 28, 2012 Share Posted January 28, 2012 Please Please Please add a /roll to the game too, it would make loot distribution much easier Couldn't agree with this more. Also fix master looter. I've only ran normal modes and agree nightmare should be extremely difficult and catered towards the smaller player base that want the hardest possible challenge. Normal and Hard should be fine for the general population and will be the two I focus on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shedari Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 This! More people need to see this and the original post. These suggestions are critical to the future success of operations in this game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ookiniyasashi Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 +2 Awesome Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chorusgirl Posted January 29, 2012 Share Posted January 29, 2012 No one wants to do nightmare mode since hardmode drops the same loot. We got the titles (they were super easy to get) Can we have like a meta for doing fights a different way and getting other perks? Titles, special mounts, or cool looking outfits will do nicely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnoldlol Posted January 30, 2012 Author Share Posted January 30, 2012 Need some more views! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turblaster Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 + 1 awesome i totally agree how the loot distribution and how the different difficulty levels are all borked at the moment. lets hope with the next tier they get it right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTeaSpice Posted January 30, 2012 Share Posted January 30, 2012 Thank you for bringing this up. The auto distribution system in normal operations is appalling. Whoever came up with that bright idea should be dragged over a bed of hot coals. This system doesn't prevent ninja looting, it prevents players from properly gearing themselves up and watching others be given loot they can't use or already have. Please change this and allow NbG and master looting options. While you are at it how about a /roll feature. Yeah I know, its like so 90's and not "innovative" but, it works and is still useful in mmos. You don't have to constantly try and reinvent the wheel here. I can't speak from experience regarding hardmode and nightmare mode but, it's kind of depressing that no new mechanic was added for nightmare mode. Sure, it's a dance, a tank and spank or a race before a hard enrage happens but, having to learn something extra for nightmare mode makes the win and accomplishment that much more satisfying. TheTeaSpice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnoldlol Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 Thank you for bringing this up. The auto distribution system in normal operations is appalling. Whoever came up with that bright idea should be dragged over a bed of hot coals. This system doesn't prevent ninja looting, it prevents players from properly gearing themselves up and watching others be given loot they can't use or already have. Please change this and allow NbG and master looting options. While you are at it how about a /roll feature. Yeah I know, its like so 90's and not "innovative" but, it works and is still useful in mmos. You don't have to constantly try and reinvent the wheel here. I can't speak from experience regarding hardmode and nightmare mode but, it's kind of depressing that no new mechanic was added for nightmare mode. Sure, it's a dance, a tank and spank or a race before a hard enrage happens but, having to learn something extra for nightmare mode makes the win and accomplishment that much more satisfying. TheTeaSpice Yes, much needed changes for sure! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunkan Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 +1 and for god's sake, give us this /roll command. It urgz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnoldlol Posted February 1, 2012 Author Share Posted February 1, 2012 +1 and for god's sake, give us this /roll command. It urgz. Yes!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xenofire Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Good post. You left out the part where 16 mans should have better gear than 8 mans. When WoW moved away from this model, the game got worse and worse. They piss off more people by making 16 and 8 mans the same-- and take away the competitive fun and necessity to orchestrate 16 mans-- than they piss off by making 8 and 16 man drop the same loot. I miss the old days of MMOs, where small raid groups do smaller instances, and big raid groups do bigger instances. Do people forget that TBC into WOTLK was when WoW sold the most copies and had the most subscribers? It was when they released that homogenized crap in WoTLK that subscripts went down. The reason people whine about welfare epics is because they expect them. Kill the expectation, and people will stop whining about not having free gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shizophim Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 1. Auto-Assign Loot. It seems this was implemented to combat ninja-looting, but it seems to be causing more problems than solving. Ninja-looting is something that the majority of us know how to avoid, either by doing guild runs, runs with friends, or runs with people who aren't completely shady and unkown (or known to ninja loot). By auto-assigning loot you are allowing for standard RNG loot, but with the chance that someone who has no use for an item to win it over someone who needs it. This is a problem that can easily be solved. Enable a toggle to turn off auto-assign. I understand your position. But infact i like the system for normal mode. However there are certain improvement to be done first. The logic have to check players Gear before it assign loot. If a player has such token in its bag or the direct token output on character he is not chosen to get the relevant token. Its just not fun, seeing a guidmade get the same token 2 or 3 times in arrow =) I dont see any reason why 16' should award better Gear than 8' you do the same encounters and the same Boss's there are not Harder, ther are just scale to the increased number of players and i expect them to just drop more reward for compensation. there is nor reason to force players into 16's only to get better loot. I prefer 8' over 16' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genesizs Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 oh ? nightmare modes dont introduce new mechanics ??? so they lied again about that ?? again even more disapointed , even if i havent done nightmare modes yet ... as i can barely find groups for normal or hard modes on my server and guild is struggling to get groups together too , my server pop is realy bad ... anyway seen a official vidhow they explained that the mechanics became harder and stuff ... maybe they have to add it but ... second lie i catch now they stated to be in the game ... first one was from endgame content in general on ilum how story would not end and you could enjoy story driven quests on ilum .. thats how tehy do it tese days hype hype hype things up ... and we get ... dis apointed again ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xenofire Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 The reason 16 man loot should be better is even if the content is the exact same difficulty, the diplomatic and public relation difficulty of getting and maintaining 16 NiM mode capable players is... nightmare mode itself. There needs to be a reason to do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shedari Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 At the very least, they need to give more loot than just 2x for 16 man. Right now it's more beneficial to run 2x 8 mans because you get the same amount of drops. This thread needs to be seen. Fix the content for normal/hardmode, and give the nightmare players something challenging like new mechanics. The new instance is going to be the deciding factor for a LOT of raiders on whether or not they should continue their subscription. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnoldlol Posted February 2, 2012 Author Share Posted February 2, 2012 The new instance is going to be the deciding factor for a LOT of raiders on whether or not they should continue their subscription. This! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shizophim Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 The reason 16 man loot should be better is even if the content is the exact same difficulty, the diplomatic and public relation difficulty of getting and maintaining 16 NiM mode capable players is... nightmare mode itself. There needs to be a reason to do it. Sorry but i just can't agree with you here. Maybe you just have the wrong idea about 16' at all. I only play 8' but so far i know you dont need more tanks in 16' . So basically you run 8'. If you have more player avaibale, but not enough tanks for 2 x 8' you just run the 16' , deal. I agree that managing 8 people is much more comfortable than 16 people is. So maybe you should switch to 8' More Players - More loot is fine. More Player - Better loot is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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