Powertech DPS in tank spec is too high compared to other tank specs in pvp

[yukirshiro]

Why are we even calling them tank specced? They're going for mostly offensive abilities in the tanking tree...that's not tank specced. They might be using the tree but they avoid all shield and defense based points.

 

Because they're in the tank tree, use tank spec and can guard and taunt, which are the only important PVP tanking tools?

 

You seem upset because PVP tanking builds arn't the same as PVE tanking builds. 21/x/x is a pvp tank build.

Edited January 26, 2012 by yukirshiro

[Kuari]

And I have to bring up "what you see as a 'tank spec' PT is really either a 21/x/x hybrid or straight-up DPS build just using Ion Gas Cylinder."

 

In that situation, yeah, they do more DPS for sure, but Juggs can get a good setup like that too. Heck, grab immortal from the tank tree then the rest goes into an obliterate/smash spec *shrugs* as long as they time their cooldowns to proper moments and not always when they're near dead and it won't have their full effect, they can pretty much have great damage and insane survivability.

 

To be honest... Assassin is the only one I'd go full tank spec for PvP with, just for debuffs and making people's life miserable (not to mention, looks like they can build some insane burst with the right spec)

Edited January 26, 2012 by Kuari

[Halstadt]

Uh...I guess all I can do is repeat "wut?" here?

 

Because the best thing about PT is you never have to leave defensive stance to be effective with a 2X/x/x build.

 

Do you even play a PT or have any idea how the work? Defensive stance on PT/vang is absolutely incredible compared to the awfulness of defensive stance as a jugg.

 

I think the real question here is, do you? You've given anecdotal evidence of 5k crits from supposedly tank spec powertech, then claimed that they're putting most of their points into non-tank trees and have dps-gear.

 

Or maybe the issue is that you don't understand the definition of a tank.

[Xsorus]

Because they're in the tank tree, use tank spec and can guard and taunt, which are the only important PVP tanking tools?

 

You seem upset because PVP tanking builds arn't the same as PVE tanking builds. 21/x/x is a pvp tank build.

 

That does less damage then the 31/8/2 builds

 

This has been discussed on the forums.

 

Parakeet build does less damage, and takes 6.5% more damage then the standard 31/8/2 build.

 

Furthermore, If you actually want a Tanky DPS build, simply equip Tank armor, and spec 31 AP and rest in shield tech, You'll be more tanky cause of Stabilized armor.

[Kryptorchid]

Because they're in the tank tree, use tank spec and can guard and taunt, which are the only important PVP tanking tools?

 

You seem upset because PVP tanking builds arn't the same as PVE tanking builds. 21/x/x is a pvp tank build.

 

So now you admit that people are bypassing defensive talents, getting the offensive ones in whatever tree it is, but their damage needs to be nerfed because those damage talents exist in the "tank" tree? lol wut

[beliglath]

Sure, Bioware decided to go with lore rather than common sense, and trust me, I know how painful melee can be, especially if you get lag (like me).

 

well if they go with lore im pretty sure that i saw too many knights and warriors on the lore using force pull ( hell they even had it on beta ) like malgus on "Hope"

[Xsorus]

I think the real question here is, do you? You've given anecdotal evidence of 5k crits from supposedly tank spec powertech, then claimed that they're putting most of their points into non-tank trees and have dps-gear.

 

Or maybe the issue is that you don't understand the definition of a tank.

 

You're never going to hit anyone at 50 for 5k damage as Parakeet build.

 

You simply cannot achieve those numbers except for running the full Pyro Builds and popping stims.

[lexiekaboom]

Misunderstanding.

 

PT don't have insane or even the highest DPS of the tanks but a poor design choice leaves them with considerably more survivability so they are alive long enough to do dps.

 

This extra survivability comes from being the tank that has the most mitigation while also being the tank that deals with mitigation the best, so vs. classes without armour penetration they are extremely hard to kill and can spam reasonable DPS the whole time. When the die to the class that is able to completely trump there mitigation it was there mirror class so argument continues, only now it was a vanguard that did too much damage in tank stance. They also can do damage at ranged, so while the assassin and jug are running to try and catch up to someone doing zero DPS, the BH is hitting them for 500 dmg a second.

 

PT tank DPS is only high when there deaths are low, and they only top the chart when there deaths are low and everyone else's are high. Almost any class can do that.

 

If PTs do get the old nerf bat, it will be to mitigation, which will lower there overall DPS as they spend more time spawning and running back to combat.

[yukirshiro]

Really none of its sustained its a quick combo that you can only do every 15 seconds sustained dps only comes from a heavy pyro spec and thats not a tank spec not even close.

 

Uh, it depends what you're comparing to.

 

But the difference is more in burst. PT has quite good burst in melee range, and decent burst even at 10m and 30m. Juggs have awful burst period unless pure dps smash specced.

[lJustAlexl]

Because they're in the tank tree, use tank spec and can guard and taunt, which are the only important PVP tanking tools?

 

You seem upset because PVP tanking builds arn't the same as PVE tanking builds. 21/x/x is a pvp tank build.

 

Call it a tank/dps hybrid. It's more clear to your point. And with that said, juggs have access to similar hybrid specs so aside from the point that juggs defensive stance needs a buff (to which I agree), I disagree that there's a problem with powertechs. Their true tank builds have fairly weak dps and their hybrids perform better in that department, as expected.

[yukirshiro]

You're never going to hit anyone at 50 for 5k damage as Parakeet build.

 

You simply cannot achieve those numbers except for running the full Pyro Builds and popping stims.

 

Good lord you people have trouble reading.

 

Sticky grenade + high impact TOGETHER hit for 3k before crits. Do you people seriously play a PT/Vang and not know how to use sticky to set up a burst combo? It's like the most basic tool in your arsenal.

 

No one's saying your rail/high impact ALONE is critting for 5k.

Edited January 26, 2012 by yukirshiro

[Sutr]

I think the real question here is, do you? You've given anecdotal evidence of 5k crits from supposedly tank spec powertech, then claimed that they're putting most of their points into non-tank trees and have dps-gear.

 

Or maybe the issue is that you don't understand the definition of a tank.

 

He is making a point though. Its a point he hasn't realized he made but he did make it. Bcause shields are so worthless in pvp there is no incentive for a pt to be anything other than hybrid specced you lose very little survivability but dps specifically burst does increase to a good level. you can keep ion cyclandir up because you just need to get the dot on it and you can use railshot that everyone specs for because once again SHIELDS ARE USELESS IN PVP so no one goes a pure tank spec.

[Kryptorchid]

Good lord you people have trouble reading.

 

Sticky grenade + high impact TOGETHER hit for 3k before crits. Do you people seriously play a PT/Vang and not know how to use sticky to set up a burst combo?

 

No one's saying your rail/high impact ALONE is critting for 5k.

 

So now you are complaining about a combo that uses 4 cells, and usually requires a 2 cell setup, i.e. 1/3 to 1/2 of our resource pool and only hits for 5K?

Edited January 26, 2012 by Kryptorchid

[yukirshiro]

then claimed that they're putting most of their points into non-tank trees and have dps-gear.

 

Uh a 21-25/x/x spec has most points in the tank tree. Math not your strong suit?

[Halstadt]

He is making a point though. Its a point he hasn't realized he made but he did make it. Bcause shields are so worthless in pvp there is no incentive for a pt to be anything other than hybrid specced you lose very little survivability but dps specifically burst does increase to a good level. you can keep ion cyclandir up because you just need to get the dot on it and you can use railshot that everyone specs for because once again SHIELDS ARE USELESS IN PVP so no one goes a pure tank spec.

 

This. But calling it burst is a laugh. At best, you can kill someone if they're really low, but all they need to do is pop one med and you're on CD or heat-max.

[yukirshiro]

So now you are complaining about a combo that uses 4 cells i.e. 1/3 of our resource pool and only hits for 5K?

 

What part of "I'd rather not see PT tank spec damage nerfed" do you not understand?

 

You've posted like 5 times in this thread and still obviously haven't even read the original post.

[Xsorus]

Good lord you people have trouble reading.

 

Sticky grenade + high impact TOGETHER hit for 3k before crits. Do you people seriously play a PT/Vang and not know how to use sticky to set up a burst combo?

 

No one's saying your rail/high impact ALONE is critting for 5k.

 

No, they're not..

 

Sticky Grenade's damage is terrible

 

and high impact non crit using that build will hit for around 1k damage to 1.5k damage.

 

using Parakeet build that is, Now if you were talking Pyro Build, you might have a point, but then it wouldn't be a tanky build.

 

Now Crit wise, you can hit for close to 3k with railshot crit, but it takes popping a Relic/Power Stim to achieve that number, this is with full Champion mind ya against regular Champion and BM players.

 

Regardless, the damage is frankly subpar compared to what ya can do with full Pyrobuild or AP build.

[Halstadt]

Uh a 21-25/x/x spec has most points in the tank tree. Math not your strong suit?

 

Okay, first, you said your issue is with their ability to guard and dps for 5k with two abilities, then switch to saying it's their utility, now you're saying they're not guarding, they have enough points to maybe grab charge, and that's enough to call it a tank spec?

[yukirshiro]

But calling it burst is a laugh.

 

Being able to set up a 3-5k burst at 30m is huge if you're not a solo baddie. Not to mention you can throw another 3k on there with DFA in some situations.

 

You probably don't realize because you've never played anything but a PT. Being a melee range tank is hugely limiting in your ability to influence fights while still providing guard cover.

[yukirshiro]

Okay, first, you said your issue is with their ability to guard and dps for 5k with two abilities, then switch to saying it's their utility, now you're saying they're not guarding, they have enough points to maybe grab charge, and that's enough to call it a tank spec?

 

What? Of course they're guarding. Where on earth does that come from?

 

The utility was just responding to some moron who said "yeah but PT have no utility so that's why their dps is so much better."

 

The spec spends most points in the tank tree and plays as a guardbot+. That's a PVP tank spec.

[Halstadt]

Being able to set up a 3-5k burst at 30m is huge if you're not a solo baddie. Not to mention you can throw another 3k on there with DFA in some situations.

 

You probably don't realize because you've never played anything but a PT. Being a melee range tank is hugely limiting in your ability to influence fights while still providing guard cover.

 

Rofl, you sure are making a lot of assumptions, odd ones at that, since I've said I can understand how being melee sucks cause I've done it with lag. You've still not given evidence to your claim of a 3k two shot, which is doubly absurd because typically you need to either get lucky or rocket punch (impossible at 30m) to get ion cylinder to proc.

[Bejita]

yo leave tanks alone, i dont care if they can do slightly more damage than a brain dead sorceror who doesnt know how to play his class, there needs to be a incentive to play the tank clas nerf the tanks and all youll see in pvp is dps with a slight chance of 1 healer

[tsupra]

maybe because no powertech is fully specced for tanking but hybrid instead,using tanking stance!

 

And that is because tank spec of powertech is shield based wich is useless

[Halstadt]

What? Of course they're guarding. Where on earth does that come from?

 

The utility was just responding to some moron who said "yeah but PT have no utility so that's why their dps is so much better."

 

The spec spends most points in the tank tree and plays as a guardbot+. That's a PVP tank spec.

 

I'm not sure if you know this, but you need to have ion cylinder active in order to guard.

[Kryptorchid]

What part of "I'd rather not see PT tank spec damage nerfed" do you not understand?

 

You've posted like 5 times in this thread and still obviously haven't even read the original post.

 

What part of that post refutes my claim of you complaining about a damage combo that uses half a PT/Vanguard's resource pool? I have read this entire thread and you keep trying to compare melee 31-point tanking builds with hybrid builds, and don't realize a Focus/Rage specced Jedi is just as "tanky" and has more burst and mobility compared to the "tank specs" you are talking about.

 

Edit: Here is some advice.

 

1. Use this build -- http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#500cRZhZGbRbdrMdGR.1

2. Run in Soresu Form.

3. Be just as tanky as the PTs you ***** about and do better damage!

4. Oh, and you get a FREE 9 second AOE slow.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Kryptorchid