Shadow Tank PvP

[TheNeox]

Hi there. Im Neox from Tayrus Academy, and im here with an idea.

 

As the title says, this thread is about Shadow Tank PvP.

 

 

Specc and Explanation

 

Im pvp rank 50 atm and im loving this specc (see below link):

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#601rIMokbskrZZf0cRd.1

 

I can explain a few thing in the talents that might look abit wierd at first glance.

 

First off. I skipped the last talent in the tanktree. The reason for this is, its purely a PvE spell imo. The slow is pointless and the damage isent anything close to Force in Balance.

Second reason is the range of it. It requires 10 meters and a target (if im not mistaken).

 

I take Harnessed Shadows for increased damage on Telekenetic Throw.

When using Force Potency + Telekenetic Throw at 3 stacks, i do alot of damage, and get healed for 3% og my max HP per tick. Great for soloing other players.

 

I went Balance as my "off tree" to get alot more damage on Double Strike and Project, since these are your main sources of damage. I also like the playstyle that Force in Balance gives. Its a very good damagedealer and has good range.

 

 

Gear Plan

 

So my plan for this specc is to use Champion / Battlemaster Survivor gear. Witch gives these setbonuses:

2 set bonus: Reduce cooldown on Spinning Kick and Spike by 10 seconds (down from 30).

4 set bonus: You deal 5% more damage to players while Guard is on.

 

Since Spinning Kick should always be used as soon as its off cooldown, this is a nice adition.

Guard should always be up. With the 5% boost to your own damage, it will motivate you even more to help ppl out.

 

When using these setbonuses i will add Surge, some Crit and some Shield Absorb stats on my gear (taking enchants and mods from the Stalker gear).

 

By doing this you will be getting pretty high crits and have good survivebility.

 

 

My gear and Stats

 

My gear is almost full Champion at this moment, with a few Centurion.

Im using a mix of Stalker and Survivor gear to keep the best of each set.

 

My current stats:

Damage Reduction: 39%

Shield Chance: 42% With Kinetic Ward on.

Shield Arbsorb: 39%

Crit: 19% (29% in combat)

Surge: 60%

Bonus Damage (Force): 480

Bonus Damage (Melee): 290

 

Im pretty far away from having the perfect gear for this specc, but im having a blast in WZ regardless.

 

I can solo every class.

I can take 2 (maybe 3) for quite some time without dying or killing a few of them.

I can deal a very steady amout of damage (not close to Infiltration burst) with the crits from Project and Double Strike.

I get a good amout of medals with this specc (more then i do as Infiltration).

 

 

Damage numbers and Medals

 

Here are a few number that explaines the damage this specc has.

Im only showing crits, since you crit almost as much as you normalhit with this specc.

This is because of these 2 talents: Particle Acceleration and Force Synergy.

 

These numbers are from memory, and not using any kind of cooldown or buffs.

 

Force in Balance: 2100+

Project: 1800+ (another 900 from Particle Acceleration)

Double Strike: 1000+ x2

Force Breach: 850+

Telekenetic Throw: 1100+ (each tick)

 

Medals:

 

Im going to list the medals that should be easy to get, with and without healers on the team.

 

1 Killing Blow

2,5k Damage done in single hit (done with Relic and Force Potency)

10 Enemies slain

75k Damage done

1k Defend points

3k Defend points

Killing a player in one-on-one

5k Damaged redirected with Guard

2k Damage redirected without dying

10k Damage redirected without dying

 

Harder medals. Recommended to have a healer:

25 Players killed

50k Damage redirected with Guard

 

These medals are pretty basic, and can be achived by most classes (with guard).

 

So there. Thats mye idea and plan for my Jedi Shadow.

 

If you have any feedback and/or criticism please reply.

 

Neox

Edited January 26, 2012 by TheNeox

[Zunzun]

It's a solid build a lot of people are using atm.

 

Especially great for ungeared people, because infiltration spec requires some good gear ro be viable. Unfortunately, fresh level 50 aren't aware of that.

[Sogar]

Nice build indeed. Personally, I prefer the infiltration hybrid ( 27/12/2 as in http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#601rcrokrskdZhGbMZM.1).

 

You mainly lose the AoE damage and range of force in balance for more speed, more sustainability (circling shadow>> psychokinesis for force management) and more burst (spinning kick/force stun -> proc'ed shadow strike -> spinning strike). My damage output is less steady though but I can play the role of a detector (max detection and stealth).

 

I find that this build can take most non healers class 1v1 (scoundrels can be problematic with all their instant cast tech abilities), is great for pressuring healers and has a very good toolbox too.

 

Everything else is on line with you.

For gear my priority list is :

 

for offense : accuracy (until 100%/110%) > Surge (mainly because it's so lacking) > Crit >>> Power (mainly because I can't have all, I have to choose between power and absorption and still have respectable crit chance)

 

for defense : absorption (until 35%) > defense >> shield rating and shield absorption (become interesting with high level of defense).

 

Offense is a priority while I tend to plan a minimum of 20/35/35 ratings for defense.

 

Oh and I find the 25 kills medal easier to get than the 3k defend points (but I do roam too much when I don't have a healer).

Edited January 27, 2012 by Sogar

[MBach]

About the gear?

 

You take the Survival Set and reMod it with other enchancements etc.

 

But what about the other stuff like Bracers, weapon, belt etc? Do you use Stalker or Survival in those slots?

[TheNeox]

About the gear?

 

You take the Survival Set and reMod it with other enchancements etc.

 

But what about the other stuff like Bracers, weapon, belt etc? Do you use Stalker or Survival in those slots?

 

Im thinking of going most Crit, Surge and Defence.

 

I have to see what stat is the lowest when i require the main gear.

I mainly thinking of going Stalker.

 

At this moment. I use Stalker Double Lightsaber and Survivor Shield gen ofc.

Edited January 27, 2012 by TheNeox

[Neamhan]

While I prefer my Kinetic/Circling Shadows build, I think it's foolish to call the snare on Force Slow 'pointless'. Especially in both Voidstar and Huttball, being able to keep a 30% snare permanently on opponents is very handy.

 

Only reason I went back to my current build is because I have much more efficient force usage with Circling Shadows, which means I can use 3 stacked Telekinetic Throw more often.

Edited January 27, 2012 by Neamhan

[MBach]

While I prefer my Kinetic/Circling Shadows build, I think it's foolish to call the snare on Force Slow 'pointless'. Especially in both Voidstar and Huttball, being able to keep a 30% snare permanently on opponents is very handy.

 

Only reason I went back to my current build is because I have much more efficient force usage with Circling Shadows, which means I can use 3 stacked Telekinetic Throw more often.

 

Do you mind sharing your Skill tree build? I'm just curious of making the best spec for my own playstyle

 

 

- Thanks for the answer btw!

[Neamhan]

It's a pretty standard alternate build. You give up some of the random spike you could get from Upheaval, but you can put out more pressure since your Projects are much cheaper. You can also get a cheaper Shadow Strike out of the build, too.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#601rsrokrskbZhGbMk.1

 

As always, both Kinetic/Infiltration and Kinetic/Balance have their advantages and disadvantages. The former just happens to fit my playstyle better, though losing out of Force Slow and Force Synergy is a sacrifice.

[Karthaugh]

taking the 3% endurance increase makes no sense whatsoever to me, especially if you're gonna be using survivor. Parry and shield are pretty useless in pvp(not totally so, they have more use against shadow/sent/knight and their mirrors) as you only affect a smaller part of the attacks you are facing.

 

Shield in particular is worse since an opponent with high crit, will push your chance even lower. I am building 2 sets of gear, a survivor remodded offensively, avoiding defense/shield, and increasing crit/surge as much as possible. that is what i am currently equipping for pvp and I havent noticed a significant decrease in survivability while increasing my dps output considerably.

 

I'm keeping a full def/shield for pve, to help me in hardmodes until I can gear up for proper pve gear. I personally favor a modified version of the pve Hybrid Kinetic balance 23/18 as I really like the added control from instacast whirlwind with the 2s stun added to it. the free mind crush is really nice for tab targetting in maps like voidstar and alderaan where it helps defending against caps.

[Smerte]

I've played around yesterday with the kinetic / balance hybrid tree, just to see if it was any good. Even though the sustained damage is pretty decent, I am not fond of it at all... it's too boring for my taste, so I switched back to my previous build:

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#601rIMokbskfZhGbMz.1

 

Harder to master, more burst without needing RNG to be on your side, more force regen, but especially much better against other shadows / assassins (relying less on your force attacks).

 

Only con: Position bugs

 

The video in my sig is showing this build.

Edited January 27, 2012 by Smerte

[Neamhan]

taking the 3% endurance increase makes no sense whatsoever to me, especially if you're gonna be using survivor. Parry and shield are pretty useless in pvp(not totally so, they have more use against shadow/sent/knight and their mirrors) as you only affect a smaller part of the attacks you are facing.

 

Shield in particular is worse since an opponent with high crit, will push your chance even lower. I am building 2 sets of gear, a survivor remodded offensively, avoiding defense/shield, and increasing crit/surge as much as possible. that is what i am currently equipping for pvp and I havent noticed a significant decrease in survivability while increasing my dps output considerably.

 

I'm keeping a full def/shield for pve, to help me in hardmodes until I can gear up for proper pve gear. I personally favor a modified version of the pve Hybrid Kinetic balance 23/18 as I really like the added control from instacast whirlwind with the 2s stun added to it. the free mind crush is really nice for tab targetting in maps like voidstar and alderaan where it helps defending against caps.

 

Any of the three choices for that one throw away point to get Harnessed Shadows isn't very good. Until Dual Specs go in, I made allowances for PvE as well, which is why I still take the parry and shield talents. But you can easily take the point out of Mental Fortitude and put it into Nerve Wracking and the point out of Vigor and put it into Force Synergy. 3% isn't really much in either case, so it doesn't hurt either. I've been considering doing so myself but the difference isn't enough to overcome my inertia.

 

I wouldn't take the point out of Masked Assault, though. Not only does it turn Blackout into a really nice force regen skill when out of stealth, being able to heal immediately after using Force Cloak is also very, very nice.

[Sogar]

Any of the three choices for that one throw away point to get Harnessed Shadows isn't very good. Until Dual Specs go in, I made allowances for PvE as well, which is why I still take the parry and shield talents. But you can easily take the point out of Mental Fortitude and put it into Nerve Wracking and the point out of Vigor and put it into Force Synergy. 3% isn't really much in either case, so it doesn't hurt either. I've been considering doing so myself but the difference isn't enough to overcome my inertia.

 

I wouldn't take the point out of Masked Assault, though. Not only does it turn Blackout into a really nice force regen skill when out of stealth, being able to heal immediately after using Force Cloak is also very, very nice.

 

100% agree with the throw away point.

 

On the other hand, I don't take Masked Assault because I believe I have plenty enough force regen without it. I really rarely use saber strike unless I'm a bit too greedy and start using shadow strike without the proc. As for the heal, well I convinced myself that since I can't heal myself and since I rarely use force cloak when a healer is still around and alive it's far less important for me than on an infiltration spec but well having to decloak/wait before taking a potential healing buff sucks sometimes so it seems debatable.

 

Force synergy on the other hand seems to do wonderful things with circling shadows and PA. Really too hard to ignore IMO (and yeah vigor sucks, it is only worth something as a filler IMO, 10 force is nothing).

 

On a sidenote, I noticed that some of you don't take shadowsight and I disagree. 2% ranged and melee defense is not worthwile but it also gives you 2% resistance (which is only important when you use resilience) and the detection bonus is also noticeable. Clearly, noticing an operative before he can open on a squishy is important.

 

Right now, I wonder if a 23/13/5 build won't be a better build but well, I'll have to test (and yeah harnessed shadow with circling shadow is certainly useful).

[TheNeox]

taking the 3% endurance increase makes no sense whatsoever to me, especially if you're gonna be using survivor. Parry and shield are pretty useless in pvp(not totally so, they have more use against shadow/sent/knight and their mirrors) as you only affect a smaller part of the attacks you are facing.

 

The reason for taking Mental Fortitide (3% more endurance) is because of the

Harnessed Shadows talent, and the fact that i love having a high HP pool in PvP.

At my current health (17k) my Harnessed Shadows heals me for 500+ each tick.

 

When it comes to Double-Bladed Saber Defence i really like the 4% increase in defence. I run this talenttree in Ops and Hardmodes aswell, and it comes in handy there to.

 

For PvP i like the fact that when i shield/parry/deflect i get Force.

 

 

I've played around yesterday with the kinetic / balance hybrid tree, just to see if it was any good. Even though the sustained damage is pretty decent, I am not fond of it at all... it's too boring for my taste, so I switched back to my previous build:

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#601rIMokbskfZhGbMz.1

 

Harder to master, more burst without needing RNG to be on your side, more force regen, but especially much better against other shadows / assassins (relying less on your force attacks).

 

Only con: Position bugs

 

The video in my sig is showing this build.

 

I really think that Force Synergy i way to good to be missed. Espessialy since you have Particle Acceleration in Kinetic.

 

Think of it this way. With both talents, your Double Strike has a 50% chance to give you a critical Project AND 9% more crit.

 

 

With the specc i liked in the original post:

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#601rIMokbskrZZf0cRd.1

 

I NEVER open up on someone in Stealth. The reason for this ofc is my playstyle.

I dont really see the point. Im really tanky and i can open up on almost everyone with my Force Pull.

 

Another point is that i dont really have a good opener after Stealth.

I think its uneffective to open with Spinning Kick, since its better to use it when im low, or when i cant interupt a cast.

 

Right now, I wonder if a 23/13/5 build won't be a better build but well, I'll have to test (and yeah harnessed shadow with circling shadow is certainly useful).

 

Post your build mate, and we can have a look at it.

 

PS: Im liking the matureness of this post so far. Keep it up.

[Bilirubin]

Maturity. "Matureness" isn't a word

 

I am also really getting a lot out of this thread. I've only just started PvP in WZs, and at level 39 kinetic I'm finding I don't survive terribly long. One area I could immediately improve numbers is with a good config (I'm still clicking a lot of actions--yeah yeah I know, but PvE doesn't demand more from me and I'm a MMO n00b). And eventually respeccing to a kinetic balance hybrid is something I will be trying.

 

However, a guild mate has suggested I'm doing alright. I'm not at the top of the damage charts, but I am typically near the top in defense and healing, and am pulling between 3-6 medals per zone (more as the chaos of the game is starting to make sense). Is it realistic for a kinetic tank to do more damage, or am I still doing ir wrong?

[Hethroin]

Maturity. "Matureness" isn't a word

 

I am also really getting a lot out of this thread. I've only just started PvP in WZs, and at level 39 kinetic I'm finding I don't survive terribly long. One area I could immediately improve numbers is with a good config (I'm still clicking a lot of actions--yeah yeah I know, but PvE doesn't demand more from me and I'm a MMO n00b). And eventually respeccing to a kinetic balance hybrid is something I will be trying.

 

However, a guild mate has suggested I'm doing alright. I'm not at the top of the damage charts, but I am typically near the top in defense and healing, and am pulling between 3-6 medals per zone (more as the chaos of the game is starting to make sense). Is it realistic for a kinetic tank to do more damage, or am I still doing ir wrong?

 

I would advise mapping all your keys as soon as you log on. There is no substitute for being able to hit abilities without having to look down at the keyboard and not interrupting movement to activate abilities. Shadows, especially Kinetics, have a lot of situational keys, and some of their abilities require procs to occur, being able to trigger proc-ed abilities without delay or interruption of movement (your ability to stay on target depends on this) is key.

[TheNeox]

Maturity. "Matureness" isn't a word

 

I am also really getting a lot out of this thread. I've only just started PvP in WZs, and at level 39 kinetic I'm finding I don't survive terribly long. One area I could immediately improve numbers is with a good config (I'm still clicking a lot of actions--yeah yeah I know, but PvE doesn't demand more from me and I'm a MMO n00b). And eventually respeccing to a kinetic balance hybrid is something I will be trying.

 

However, a guild mate has suggested I'm doing alright. I'm not at the top of the damage charts, but I am typically near the top in defense and healing, and am pulling between 3-6 medals per zone (more as the chaos of the game is starting to make sense). Is it realistic for a kinetic tank to do more damage, or am I still doing ir wrong?

 

Sorry for my bad english

 

Keybindings are always the big diffrence between experienced and unexperienced MMO players.

 

At first, when i started playing WoW. I only had 1-9 binded. Now im using:

 

1-9

Shift 1-6

Cntrl 1-3

Numpad 1-9 (I have a Razor Naga that has all the buttons on the side of the mouse)

Q, E, F, T, R, G

Shift + Q, E, F, T, R, G

 

These take while to learn at first, but you gain alot from having alot of keybindings.

 

When it comes to WZ at low lvls, it seams like your doing a good job.

I only played Infiltration DPS specc at low brackets and i remember having the same amout of medals as you do.

[Bilirubin]

Thanks, and I know, configs are critical in FPS (my background), but I've been waiting until I get a better mouse than the two button + wheel I have now. Perhaps I'll get a Naga on the way home from work.

 

Where is your movement located?

[TheNeox]

Where is your movement located?

 

My movementkeys are the standard WASD.

[Fayst]

when you go up tank tree you want that slow time or your just missing alot of burst there.

[TheNeox]

when you go up tank tree you want that slow time or your just missing alot of burst there.

 

Im not certin about this, but how hard does Slow Time crit ?

 

With Force in Balance i crit up close to 2,5k

 

A quick look at both (for referance. Slow Time = ST and Force in Balance = FiB):

 

Range:

ST 10 meters

FiB 30 meters

 

Damage (Stated in my ingame talentree):

ST 798

FiB 1104

Target:

ST Needs to have a target within 10 meters

FiB When you use it you get a target area that works 30 meters + AoE

 

Bonuses:

ST Slows movementspeed and reduces damage the target deals by 5%

FiB no bonuses

 

My opinion, Slow Time is not worth the talents. Considering you get improved Double Strike crits aswell from the Balance tree. Double Strike is more then half my damageoutput.

The playstyle that Force in Balance gives is pretty uniqe.

Your Melee, but you can dish out a 2k + nuke at 30 meters range to kill runners and tag oponents in Ilum.

Edited January 27, 2012 by TheNeox

[Neamhan]

Don't forget that Slow Time is also an AoE.