Pyrotech Mercs, how's PvP?

[Postalp]

Arsenal Merc, tired of the turret style of gameplay, I want some mobility.

 

Pyrotech's, hit me up with your specs/tactics.

[yaxinn]

Pyro definitely has potential.

 

The dps is lower than the arsenal skill tree but the burst can be insane.

While thermal detonator is active and ticking, i load up a powershot and fire railshot directly after. Depending on your gear and your oponent you can get a whoping 10k in one single burst while sitting on ~30 heat only

[Mamm]

Arsenal Merc, tired of the turret style of gameplay, I want some mobility.

 

Pyrotech's, hit me up with your specs/tactics.

 

Awesome, but if you meet arsenal and havo no place to LOS - you die.

[yaxinn]

Awesome, but if you meet arsenal and havo no place to LOS - you die.

 

Arsenal is a turret. Zero mobility.

Get close to him, jump around, all the stuff that makes him rage because he needs to face you to TM.

Edited January 28, 2012 by Paralassa
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[pipda]

Don't forget all the extra medals you get from using guard and taunts. Even if your DPS specced. Not going to get those as pure DPS and even though you have some heals your going to have to work your butt of to get those 9 medals I face rolled a PT to get.

[diogolp]

Don't forget all the extra medals you get from using guard and taunts. Even if your DPS specced. Not going to get those as pure DPS and even though you have some heals your going to have to work your butt of to get those 9 medals I face rolled a PT to get.

 

Wrong ac.

[Godofmars]

Pyro definitely has potential.

 

The dps is lower than the arsenal skill tree but the burst can be insane.

While thermal detonator is active and ticking, i load up a powershot and fire railshot directly after. Depending on your gear and your oponent you can get a whoping 10k in one single burst while sitting on ~30 heat only

 

I don't think so. Pyro does equal if not more dps if played correctly.

[Stranded_Law]

I don't think so. Pyro does equal if not more dps if played correctly.

 

I agree, but the numbers are smaller and more frequent, so for most ppl fairly new to MMOs, they'll swear up and down that Pyro DPS doesn't exist.

 

As long as your target is burning, you shouldn't have trouble keeping up with Arsenal for dps. DPS though, is not the issue in pvp...it's burst damage. And we certainly have that. You should also have no trouble inflating your damage numbers far higher than Arsenal thanks to Dots.

[anarchythreeotwo]

Here is my take on it.. I was a fully geared arsenal merc with battlemaster gear, and here are the pro's and cons in my eyes:

 

Arsenal Merc:

 

PROS:

 

- Better Survivability due to burst (You can kill someone 1v1 FASTER than arsenal with your spike) As Pyro, I find myself waiting for my dots to kill them, versus when I was arsenal I could do 3x tracer, hsm, and they are usually dead from a 6-7k crit on tsm. Also if your good, you can time power surge with tracer to get 1 last hit off if other stuff is on CD.

 

- Better in PVE -- Burst dmg, as well as an armor debuff for whole group.

 

- Knockbacks.. I wish pyro had the knockbacks that mercs have. The KB's are awesome for huttball, and survivability in general. Very useful to knock people into traps/off bridges.

 

- Heat management is AMAZINGLY Easy.

 

CONS:

 

- Your a stationary turret (duh)

- Your extremely prone to interrupt, thus putting all skills on a 4sec GCD.

- LOS isnt as useful as pyro, because your railshot/tsm rely on the armorbreak/debuff.

 

Pyrotech Merc:

 

PROS:

 

- MOBILE!! Everyone of your main attacks is instant.

 

- Will ALWAYS out DPS arsenal mercs in leaderboards in PVP due to DOTs. I ALWAYS do more overall dmg than my arsenal build due to being constantly on the run. everything I see has a dot on it whether from incendiary or just rapid shots, I dot everything.

 

- Makes you a better PVPer. Less button spam to get off x3 Tracer Missles, then hsm, then rail. You have to calculate your decisions and you have more time to think about what your doing.

 

- DOTS burn like hell when target is at 30%. I recommend using incendiary, thermal det, then railshot, kite a little with rapid shots, then TSO+Power Surge Fusion missile to eat that last 30% alive.

 

- Energy shield -- Take the skill that reduces the CD on this upon taking dmg. Because 1v1 without LOS you will take alot of damage.

 

CONS:

 

- Not as much burst, that means you have to stay in the fight longer versus your target, so you are going to take more damage.

 

- Heat management is very difficult to learn. If you press incendiary x2 in a row, your pretty much screwed. Always throw in rapid shots to manage heat.

 

- Not good for taking down healers. You simply dont have the burst dmg to take them down, whereas when you were arsenal if they let you sneak 3-4 tracers on them you can insta kill with HSM and Railshot + Unload.

 

- Jack crap for knockbacks. Just the basic boost one, which doesnt do much, and very hard to work in with heat management.

 

Hope that helps, I still love PYRO for PVP, although I do switch back and forth from time to time..

 

I highly recommend every arsenal merc to try out pyro. Give it at least 5-6 warzones to sink in, because I tried it before in 1 and quit. Even if you end up giving up pyro, it will make you a better arsenal merc, because you will manage heat better and learn how to play better

Edited January 27, 2012 by anarchythreeotwo

[IlynPayne]

add 1 big con to pyro: all its main attacks can be defended against (deflect), can be shielded, and are subject to accuracy. all things that dont count for tracer missile and heatseeker.

[anarchythreeotwo]

Good point, always make sure to start with rapid shots to break down shields, forgot to add that

[Stranded_Law]

add 1 big con to pyro: all its main attacks can be defended against (deflect), can be shielded, and are subject to accuracy. all things that dont count for tracer missile and heatseeker.

 

Add 1 big Pro to Pyro - The majority of our damage is purely elemental and stacking DOTs on the run. We ignore armor a whole lot better even than the armor-piercing talented Tracers.

 

When a Jugg is below 30%, what kills them faster? The Combustible Cylinder, Incendiary, and Fusion Missile DOTs all ticking away that none of his mitigation can even sniff at. And the fact all of our damage is increased by 9% because he's burning.

 

The kind of damage he can't laugh about as he ducks behind a wall.

[Mephane]

Awesome, but if you meet arsenal and havo no place to LOS - you die.

 

Not necessarily. From my experience, Merc vs. Merc, regardless of specc, is mostly a matter of initiative - who shoots first - a bit of gear and skill only inasmuch as performing a proper rotation and not overheating while the other guy is still at 50%.

 

I've beaten other Mercs, both Arsenal and Pyro, in 1vs1 situation just as often as I've lost to them. Most hilarious is when you both are already low, they have a lucky crit and kill you, only to die a second later to your Thermal Detonator and themselves still being on fire.

[Stranded_Law]

A Merc/Commando has never killed me as Pyro. Vanguards/Powertechs on the other hand...

[anarchythreeotwo]

Not necessarily. From my experience, Merc vs. Merc, regardless of specc, is mostly a matter of initiative - who shoots first - a bit of gear and skill only inasmuch as performing a proper rotation and not overheating while the other guy is still at 50%.

 

I've beaten other Mercs, both Arsenal and Pyro, in 1vs1 situation just as often as I've lost to them. Most hilarious is when you both are already low, they have a lucky crit and kill you, only to die a second later to your Thermal Detonator and themselves still being on fire.

 

Any smart arsenal merc can just cleanse and remove the dots very easily, by the time we have enough heat to stack them again, we'd be dead.

 

But if we have something to LOS against, they are dead.

[DervimNorth]

I agree, but the numbers are smaller and more frequent, so for most ppl fairly new to MMOs, they'll swear up and down that Pyro DPS doesn't exist.

 

As long as your target is burning, you shouldn't have trouble keeping up with Arsenal for dps. DPS though, is not the issue in pvp...it's burst damage. And we certainly have that. You should also have no trouble inflating your damage numbers far higher than Arsenal thanks to Dots.

 

It's not the small numbers issue, but rather the heat management. You burn someone down and you need to cool off when you're a pyro, but as an arsenal spec, you have no problem to keep on spamming tracer missiles-just insert default attack here and there and let Unload do the cooling off when it procs.

[ahwinters]

At lvl 50 on my server (Infinity Gate), I can go DAYS without seeing an Arsenal merc. Everyone is Bodyguard or Pyrotech.

 

I personally use both, but I absolutely love Pyro... mostly because it reminds me of my Sorcerer from Warhammer =)

 

 

To the person who was saying that you would die if you came across an Arsenal merc as Pyro, if you use range as your LoS for the first few DoTs and then close and use your 2 interupts, they should be toast super fast.

[Redmyst]

i have been enjoying my arsenal merc since i started playing, but got tired of the stationary target. damage in pvp was good at an average of 275k per match with about 25 kills and 2 to 4 deaths.

 

switched to pyro 2 days ago and am loving it, damage per pvp round is now around 300k+ while i work on my rotation and i usualy wind up with about 40+ kills while around the same deaths..

 

we are more mobile, can dot several targets to help the team win in matches. healers hate me with a passion, in fact most stealthing classes hate me as they cant get away from the 18 second dot.

 

I thought there would be a problem with pve on hardmodes with bosses and their enrage timers, but so far everything has gone just like it did before. Except for HK47 in false emperor. There I can dot him before his vanishes and the dots sticks to him speeding up the process of killing him.

 

Pyro for me is just as good if not better than arsenal as I like being mobile and I dont have to hear in WZ's about the tracer missile abuse.

 

here is my build, thinking of moving some points around though.

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#300MzZMczZcIbrzGhrs.1

[Angryorc]

As we said all along the way... tracer missile spam strains our backs and it gets tedious.

 

As I thought we weren't going to raid untill sunday this week I was daring and specced to 31 pyro and my first warzone was a voidstar where I did well over 450k damage.

 

Currently enjoying the mobility of pyro and loving it.

 

I see me speccing back to arsenal for the surprise raid tonight tho as you're kinda stuck waiting for heat to go down, but in most ways pretty good burst until heat becomes and issue.

 

Guess it's all about gear too and 400 biochem with the <3 it brings won't hurt either.

 

I would on the other hand love to trade my statstick offhand to get a shield generator and grapple and run along as pyro

Edited January 27, 2012 by Angryorc

[LarkBenson]

add 1 big con to pyro: all its main attacks can be defended against (deflect), can be shielded, and are subject to accuracy. all things that dont count for tracer missile and heatseeker.

 

This is a combination of false and inaccurate.

 

 

Tech attacks cannot be shielded or avoided. This has been proven extensively by our PT brethren. This accounts for nearly all of your damage as pyro. The few attacks that can be (rapid shots, I believe rail as well), will almost never be due to the amount of accuracy on champ/BM gear and the fact that tech attacks start with 100% accuracy baseline. On top of that, you have 3% basically handed to you in the first tier of the skill tree, unless you'd rather invest 3 points in 500ish HP.

 

You don't have to worry about your attacks being mitigated as pyro. Quite the opposite, your elemental-based tech attacks will do nearly equal damage to all classes (except where expertise comes into play).

Edited January 27, 2012 by LarkBenson

[Stranded_Law]

People! You have heat management talents...TAKE THEM. Play with them consistently before coming here and saying there's no heat management.

 

I never have heat issues as a Pyro in pve or pvp. You have to use your abilities more wisely, that's all.

[Kortobowden]

Not necessarily. From my experience, Merc vs. Merc, regardless of specc, is mostly a matter of initiative - who shoots first - a bit of gear and skill only inasmuch as performing a proper rotation and not overheating while the other guy is still at 50%.

 

I've beaten other Mercs, both Arsenal and Pyro, in 1vs1 situation just as often as I've lost to them. Most hilarious is when you both are already low, they have a lucky crit and kill you, only to die a second later to your Thermal Detonator and themselves still being on fire.

 

I love that happening. I've been on both sides of the TD boom death and it's hilarious either way. Probably one of the reasons I try to go after other mercs/commandos when I see them if it's feasible(IE any other allies/enemies nearby, anyone else that's a priority, we're ahead on the objectives, etc).

[chainsawsamurai]

This is a combination of false and inaccurate.

 

 

Tech attacks cannot be shielded or avoided. This has been proven extensively by our PT brethren. This accounts for nearly all of your damage as pyro. The few attacks that can be (rapid shots, I believe rail as well), will almost never be due to the amount of accuracy on champ/BM gear and the fact that tech attacks start with 100% accuracy baseline. On top of that, you have 3% basically handed to you in the first tier of the skill tree, unless you'd rather invest 3 points in 500ish HP.

 

You don't have to worry about your attacks being mitigated as pyro. Quite the opposite, your elemental-based tech attacks will do nearly equal damage to all classes (except where expertise comes into play).

 

This is a combination of false and inaccurate.

 

Unload: Ranged attack

Rail Shot: Ranged attack

Power Shot: Ranged attack

Rapid Shots: Ranged attack

 

 

This leaves a Pyro spec with Thermal Detonator and Incendiary Missile as the only commonly used Tech attacks. The poster you are replying to has a valid point.

 

I'm not sure if you still get the Prototype Particle Accelerator buff if the attack is avoided due to Defense (you certainly do on a shielded attack) because I haven't done Merc Pyro yet only PT Pyro; PT's PPA triggering attacks are Tech, and it is the superior of the two BH Pyro specs imo.

 

Point is, you're not going to have enough accuracy to remove a Jugg's 25% defense. Period. No amount of voodoo is going to get your crit high enough to push a significant shield chance off the table.

 

You also mention Tech Elemental Damage attacks, of which a Pyro Merc has two sources: Incin Missile and the Cylinder's DoT. TD is Kinetic Damage.

 

Unless of course you're referring to PT Pyro. Then you're right about your comment (and Rapid Shot/Rail Shot are the only common non-tech attacks), but on the wrong forum.

[DaftFett]

Honestly, Pyro is great, Im lvl 47, going to be 3/7/31 spec, and I regularly top the damage and kill chart. 1vs1 takes skill, but totally doable. You can stand to the side a blast away, or kite, you will feel good about the game win or lose. You really should try it! just remember your a killer not a cc'er or ball carrier.

[LarkBenson]

This is a combination of false and inaccurate.

 

Unload: Ranged attack

Rail Shot: Ranged attack

Power Shot: Ranged attack

Rapid Shots: Ranged attack

 

 

This leaves a Pyro spec with Thermal Detonator and Incendiary Missile as the only commonly used Tech attacks. The poster you are replying to has a valid point.

 

I'm not sure if you still get the Prototype Particle Accelerator buff if the attack is avoided due to Defense (you certainly do on a shielded attack) because I haven't done Merc Pyro yet only PT Pyro; PT's PPA triggering attacks are Tech, and it is the superior of the two BH Pyro specs imo.

 

Point is, you're not going to have enough accuracy to remove a Jugg's 25% defense. Period. No amount of voodoo is going to get your crit high enough to push a significant shield chance off the table.

 

You also mention Tech Elemental Damage attacks, of which a Pyro Merc has two sources: Incin Missile and the Cylinder's DoT. TD is Kinetic Damage.

 

Unless of course you're referring to PT Pyro. Then you're right about your comment (and Rapid Shot/Rail Shot are the only common non-tech attacks), but on the wrong forum.

 

Unload, rail shot, power shot and rapid shots make up probably less than 25% of my pyro merc's total damage in PvP. If you're using power + rail to try to burst down a tank, you're doing it wrong anyway (unless you're in a 1v1 world pvp fight, in which case you're screwed regardless so long as they're smart and have CDs up). For every class that isn't a tank, as I mentioned, you've got enough accuracy with champ/BM gear plus talents to make the baseline 5% defence rarely come into play.

 

As for PPA procs, they're nice but frankly you don't rely on them as merc pyro like you do as PT. When you go to burst, it's thermal>powershot>rail. You're hitting rail whether you proc PPA or not, and you've got it off CD if you're setting up burst. If you don't, then you're just denting them, you probably haven't taken them under 30% HP and it's time to turn and kite away. PPA is like a nice, unexpected gift in the form of heat reduction, it's not something you actively try to proc with unload and power shot.

 

So yes, the point is valid, but I disagree that it's a significant negative versus going arsenal. Arsenal still uses unload to snare and in it's rotation when it procs (in fact I'd argue that arsenal uses unload more than pyro uses unload and power shot combined). Arsenal still uses rail and rapid shots. So a difference yes, but a significant one, and a reason to avoid pyro? Hardly.