Moriam Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 I cannot understand why so many people are dead set against there being gear awarded from arena. This game is an mmo and gear is the prime motivator to get people to do things. Gear should be rewarded to players who show they are skillful and put a lot of time and effort into the game. Period. Dong harder mode raids yield better gear than normal. This is a good system and it keeps ppl playing. Arena is the best way in pvp to measure pvp skill/effort. I mean come on. Does it take skill to win in warzones? People can mre easily hide their incompetence of pvp in a warzone. Warzones should not yield the same gear as arena. If we have a reward system in arena which yields purely cosmetic differences, what is the point? I may as well play a fps. Discuss. Sorry for the giant paragraph. Posting from phone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roak Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 (edited) This game is an mmo and gear is the prime motivator to get people to do things. There's your problem. The for gear from arena people are generally wow generation, which is a fully gear driven mmo The against gear from arena people are generally pre wow and understand that the world should be the primary source of pvp progression, whether it is gear or otherwise (abilities, stats etc) and instanced pvp content should not affect the world. I'm all for arena as the more types of pvp an mmo has the better, but it should be a totally isolated facet of pvp and if it does give gear that gear should be for use n arena only, not a better than all other pvp type of gear. Developers seem to have a hard time realising that totally separated types of pvp make a better overall experience than creating different types and rewarding them with the same thing (ie valor should be for warzones, something else and merc comms should be for "world" pvp, the 2 should not cross). Edited January 26, 2012 by Roak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vant Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 I cannot understand why so many people are dead set against there being gear awarded from arena. This game is an mmo and gear is the prime motivator to get people to do things. Gear should be rewarded to players who show they are skillful and put a lot of time and effort into the game. Period. Dong harder mode raids yield better gear than normal. This is a good system and it keeps ppl playing. Arena is the best way in pvp to measure pvp skill/effort. I mean come on. Does it take skill to win in warzones? People can mre easily hide their incompetence of pvp in a warzone. Warzones should not yield the same gear as arena. If we have a reward system in arena which yields purely cosmetic differences, what is the point? I may as well play a fps. Discuss. Sorry for the giant paragraph. Posting from phone. This is the main problem with current MMOs in many people's minds. That is the reason. When games use Gear as a motivator it acts as a poor replacement for the actual act of winning. Winning should be the main reward in itself. Recognition should also be a reward in itself. Therefore I like the idea of having ratings based on kills, healing, and other things like DAoC did and having factions that control territories receive a "realm ability" or "buff." Leave the gear out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moriam Posted January 26, 2012 Author Share Posted January 26, 2012 The against gear from arena people are generally pre wow and understand that the world should be the primary source of pvp progression, whether it is gear or otherwise (abilities, stats etc) and instanced pvp content should not affect the world. The world should be the primary source of pvp progression? Meaning world pvp? This will always, always be a problem to award gear based on world pvp gear because of population problems. The empire should not be allowed to get better gear simply because they can field more people. The only way to award gear fairly to people who exhibit better skill/effort is to do it based on instanced pvp. Because instanced pvp is a better indicator of player skill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razot Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 This is the main problem with current MMOs in many people's minds. That is the reason. When games use Gear as a motivator it acts as a poor replacement for the actual act of winning. Winning should be the main reward in itself. Recognition should also be a reward in itself. Therefore I like the idea of having ratings based on kills, healing, and other things like DAoC did and having factions that control territories receive a "realm ability" or "buff." Leave the gear out of it. But most of these type of people cannot win without gear imbalances. In the end it just turns PVP into a mini game and eventually ruins the growth of PVP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arellea Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 I'm all for it being awarded under the assumptions that it is either: a) also obtainable from non arena pvp means or b) only usable in arena pvp. I personally like to do casual pvp but do not particularly enjoy arena death matches as I find them rather stale and boring. Arena only top end pvp gear means my options are: a) do arenas for gear or b) be at a major disadvantage in all other pvp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moriam Posted January 26, 2012 Author Share Posted January 26, 2012 I'm all for it being awarded under the assumptions that it is either: a) also obtainable from non arena pvp means or b) only usable in arena pvp. I personally like to do casual pvp but do not particularly enjoy arena death matches as I find them rather stale and boring. Arena only top end pvp gear means my options are: a) do arenas for gear or b) be at a major disadvantage in all other pvp. Well if the same gear from arena were obtainable from other sources (I am assuming warzones?), then why would people do arena? Why would people play arena also if the gear was only usable there. I am sorry but this idea sounds bad to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-COBRA- Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 thats stupid imo, cuz u forgot to mention arena sets in wow now have no rating prerequisite, beside the 2200 weapon, so everybody got the best pvp gear spending 20 min a week doing arenas Nowe back to swtor, we wants more OPEN PVP as daoc and less stupid rated WZ/arenas etc. like WoW, cuz we just want to log in and pvp, nobody wants to wait their frikin pocket healer, tank and all the frikin team to log in the game to pvp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niaoru Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 I just want an arena ladder with cool titles for the top percent and some vanity rewards. Maybe a mount. That's it. Give me small scale, coordinated PvP please. None of this huttball crap. That will never be considered a competitive map by skilled players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moriam Posted January 26, 2012 Author Share Posted January 26, 2012 thats stupid imo, cuz u forgot to mention arena sets in wow now have no rating prerequisite, beside the 2200 weapon, so everybody got the best pvp gear spending 20 min a week doing arenas Nowe back to swtor, we wants more OPEN PVP as daoc and less stupid rated WZ/arenas etc. like WoW, cuz we just want to log in and pvp, nobody wants to wait their frikin pocket healer, tank and all the frikin team to log in the game to pvp Wow went through different states of arena rating requirements, and then they changed it so nearly all of the gear was simply available from just playing enough arena. This is another entire issue though. Open pvp is flawed. Open world pvp is not fun with population imbalances like we are seeing (for either side). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkerus Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Arena is a WoW problem. It put a HUGE microscope on the game and created more balancing issues than can ever be fixed. Even the WoW devs admitted that. If the devs want to do themselves a favor, they will never balance around 1v1 or 2v2. Group PvP is the best way to balance a game. I totally understand you want arenas. I get it. I really do. But this isn't the game for arena type gameplay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arellea Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Well if the same gear from arena were obtainable from other sources (I am assuming warzones?), then why would people do arena? Why would people play arena also if the gear was only usable there. I am sorry but this idea sounds bad to begin with. Because different paths are different and some people prefer a different play style? I would be fine if the alternative was a competitive rated warzone system, I just don't like the arena play style and don't appreciate it being forced down my throat as the only pvp options simply due to being the only way to get the gear required to be competitive in all other pvp. heck if we're gonna make arenas the only path to pvp gear why don't we just make raiding the only path to BiS gear period and make all the pvpers do pve. It's really no different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moriam Posted January 26, 2012 Author Share Posted January 26, 2012 Arena is a WoW problem. It put a HUGE microscope on the game and created more balancing issues than can ever be fixed. Even the WoW devs admitted that. If the devs want to do themselves a favor, they will never balance around 1v1 or 2v2. Group PvP is the best way to balance a game. I totally understand you want arenas. I get it. I really do. But this isn't the game for arena type gameplay. Fine. I agree. They should only have group arena pvp. The lowest bracket being a 4v4. It will be much easier to balance then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holocroncrystal Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 (edited) I don't get this whole skill thing in a MMO's sure it's there but it's not like a fps rts in a mmo you can mash buttons for god sakes and win (pallies). You can have a class be over powerd or be carried by others on the team, healing can be easy. Some classes have anmation delys more then others. You are rewarding flaws in the game and even WOW said they made a mistake and each season they are nerfs giving out and abilities taken out or changed, these changes affect the game as a whole peoples classes that don't even do arena are nerfed or changed because of arena. I don't hate arena I just don't want to be the only way to obtain the best pvp gear. I don't want the game to solely evolve around just arena. Why do people want there to be only one way to abtain the best PVP gear? You don't, then fine. Let people obtain their gear they want there should not be only one way to get the best pvp gear. That would be like saying in a FPS you have to only play conquest mode to obtain better gear. They should be multiple ways and new forms of PVP to obtain gear. Just my two cents I am not anti arena. Edited January 26, 2012 by Holocroncrystal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkerus Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Fine. I agree. They should only have group arena pvp. The lowest bracket being a 4v4. It will be much easier to balance then. I would prefer the minimum be 5v5 and that its not in a tiny box. We'll see what the future holds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jezzikah Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 (edited) As of now you can get the BEST tier of PVP gear and be effin terrible at PvP, This is the MAIN reason people don't want arena/rated WZ with better gear. Edited January 26, 2012 by Jezzikah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cronpants Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 gear is the prime motivator to get people to do things. Severely misguided assumption on your part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vindexus Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 I can see a 2v2 and 4v4 arena bracket being very viable in this game. Arena only gear is a turrible idea. You can create incentives to participate in Arenas and high level PvP without creating a competitive inbalance. Ladders, titles and cosmetic items (stylized Arena-only armor Orange pieces) are more than enough to keep people coming back. No need to dig yourself a hole trying to itemize PvP and Op gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yazule Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 (edited) I cannot understand why so many people are dead set against there being gear awarded from arena. This game is an mmo and gear is the prime motivator to get people to do things. Gear should be rewarded to players who show they are skillful and put a lot of time and effort into the game. Period. Dong harder mode raids yield better gear than normal. This is a good system and it keeps ppl playing. Arena is the best way in pvp to measure pvp skill/effort. I mean come on. Does it take skill to win in warzones? People can mre easily hide their incompetence of pvp in a warzone. Warzones should not yield the same gear as arena. If we have a reward system in arena which yields purely cosmetic differences, what is the point? I may as well play a fps. Discuss. Sorry for the giant paragraph. Posting from phone. Firstly Gear as a motivator sucks, i hate bound gear, i prefer "full looting" and "corpse decay" because it encourages a crafting market. Currently the crafted goods are just a stepping stone to better gear (and there are multiple teirs above crafting) Having "haves" and "have nots" based on what zone you did kind of blows for the casual player (which i am not but my wife is) and uber loot is a good system for the software company, i call them time sinks... they don't want you to be happy, they want you to keep playing (read: paying), remember that always Arena's keep the uber elite's epeens big and strong (read: good for .01% of the population and therefor do not have enough value to the bottom line to be worth doing) finally, wanting to have .01% of the population have better gear as well as a big epeen is OP and should be nerfed asap I like world pvp, not for gear... for fun... for control of resources... just to be "that guy" that they come to the boards to whine about when THEY picked a pvp server. Arena's should be like sports... i can get the shoes a pro basketball player gets on ebay, I can get the shoulder pads a football player gets in the store as well. Gear rewards to the few is dumb, i mean really really dumb. You apparently grew up in games where you expect it, the candy arse world of wow... in UO people looted your corpse if they killed you.. now THERE is a reward (til they invented trammel destroying the game). Bound gear makes people covet, and coveting is a sin. If we had full looting you would put your sunday best in a chest waiting for the day you really needed it rather than go out with all the rewards and pwn everyone with no risk of losing anything. people who covet uber gear are carebears, the pvp coveters are the mutated inbred children of the raid carebears, with rabies and scurvy. Edited January 26, 2012 by Yazule Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HagbardCelin Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Someone should just make a MMO that's PVP-centric and get all of these mouth breathers out of the way. Oh wait, they did. And they're still here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moriam Posted January 26, 2012 Author Share Posted January 26, 2012 Because different paths are different and some people prefer a different play style? I would be fine if the alternative was a competitive rated warzone system, I just don't like the arena play style and don't appreciate it being forced down my throat as the only pvp options simply due to being the only way to get the gear required to be competitive in all other pvp. heck if we're gonna make arenas the only path to pvp gear why don't we just make raiding the only path to BiS gear period and make all the pvpers do pve. It's really no different. Sure there are different paths and different play styles, but they are not all made to be equal. I am arguing that if the same gear is both acquirable through warzones/world pvp and arena, then why would people go through the trouble of going the more competitive route (arena). We can argue And to your second point that is not a far assesment at all. The two play styles are vastly different. If you have to make a comparison you have to compare pve to pve, and pvp to pvp. In that sense if you compare raiding to other forms of pve, then yes raiding SHOULD give you better gear. This is absolutely the case. Why? Because raiding is harder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moriam Posted January 26, 2012 Author Share Posted January 26, 2012 As of now you can get the BEST tier of PVP gear and be effin terrible at PvP, This is the MAIN reason people don't want arena/rated WZ with better gear. I think you hit it on the nail. People don't want to admit it, but it is true. They want easier gear... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moriam Posted January 26, 2012 Author Share Posted January 26, 2012 I can see a 2v2 and 4v4 arena bracket being very viable in this game. Arena only gear is a turrible idea. You can create incentives to participate in Arenas and high level PvP without creating a competitive inbalance. Ladders, titles and cosmetic items (stylized Arena-only armor Orange pieces) are more than enough to keep people coming back. No need to dig yourself a hole trying to itemize PvP and Op gear. I disagree. If you do not put gear behind it, not enough people will participate in it. And if that is the case, why make arena in the first place. That is my opinion. We will wait to see what pans out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coolnamesrtaken Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 (edited) I quit wow because I knew I wasn't going to hit 2200 this season. Ironic that arena kept me sub'd to wow so long but eventually is what made me leave it. I do believe there should be arena. Just not how wow does it. Arena should be ranking system, title, bragging rites- not gear Gear rewards =/= competition Edited January 26, 2012 by coolnamesrtaken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qilz Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Well if the same gear from arena were obtainable from other sources (I am assuming warzones?), then why would people do arena? Why would people play arena also if the gear was only usable there. I am sorry but this idea sounds bad to begin with. I give you props for being one of the few advocates for Arenas that actually have the balls to say you want to do it for the gear. The rest all claim because it's fun and they don't care about the gear. I still disagree with arenas and even moreso with adding gear rewards, but at least you can stand up for what you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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