2 Hour Deserter debuff

[Sheneria]

no thanks, many people incl. me just run wz to get their dailys done (if it does not bug out) then leave since its the only way to get bm bags.

 

why should we stay in a match where people on my team just don't know how to pass a ball (yes in level 50 brackets) or are to busy fighting while the enemy caps a point 5m away from him.

 

until the random everything (WZ,group) in this game stays a debuff will just resulte in even longer ques for everybody.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Sheneria

[Shadedluck]

I'd rather have people leave the game to put more apt people into it, rather than have someone sit there afking waiting for it to end..

[richardya]

why should we stay in a match where people on my team just don't know how to pass a ball (yes in level 50 brackets) or are to busy fighting while the enemy caps a point 5m away from him..

 

Because if everyone left when they felt their teammates did not know how to play, PvP would die. So those of us who think about others and not just ourselves stick it out. We believe even bad players are entitled to play. We believe that there are players better than us just as we are better than others, we believe that our subjective judgement on who cant play is subjective.

[Airoper]

i would rather they didnt let you leave

[DarthNethus]

Because if everyone left when they felt their teammates did not know how to play, PvP would die. So those of us who think about others and not just ourselves stick it out. We believe even bad players are entitled to play. We believe that there are players better than us just as we are better than others, we believe that our subjective judgement on who cant play is subjective.

 

You do realize that this is a discussion about a video game, right?

 

We're not writing the Constitution... Or the Bill of Rights... Or the Declaration of Independance... Or a Religious Text... Or a Jerry McGuire-Style "Mission Statement".

 

Nope. Discussion about a video game. To be more specific, people deciding that they don't want to play with other people in a video game.

 

Just making sure.

 

Edited January 26, 2012 by DarthNethus

[Sheneria]

Because if everyone left when they felt their teammates did not know how to play, PvP would die. So those of us who think about others and not just ourselves stick it out. We believe even bad players are entitled to play. We believe that there are players better than us just as we are better than others, we believe that our subjective judgement on who cant play is subjective.

 

yes sure but im selfish here. blame it on bioware and the fail RNG pvp bags.

 

see once you get 60 valor rank there is no need to farm any more wz coms or valor.

 

i do this everyday, run the ilum pvp dailys and the wz dailys for my bm bags, then i go and do some world pvp (plenty on my server) which i enjoy more than running even more of those 3 wz i played since level 10.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Sheneria

[richardya]

How many more "excuses" are you going to come up with for saying that anyone who disagrees with you is a bad/selfish/stupid/cowardly person who is full of BS and should be punished?

 

Did it ever occur to you that when many different players of many different types from many different servers all voice the same concerns over and over and over that... Their concerns might be valid?

 

I have yet to see you post anything positive, constructive, or intelligent in this thread.

Your only response or argument to anyone who disagrees with you seems to be belittling them or insulting them.

 

Who let the GOP in here? LOL

Newt??? Is that you???

 

Let me ask you one question. If everyone left when the following happened, tell me what would happen:

 

1) Other team was over geared

2) Teammates were bad

3) Game was imbalanced

4) They only had 7 on their team (someone left)

5) The zone was bugged

6) War zone favored one class

 

Tell me what would happen if everyone left in those circumstances?

Answer this.

 

So...either everyone sticks it out or everyone leaves.

What is your solution. I gave one, my solution is stick it out.

What you propose is that YOU should leave and everyone else should stay. Because if everyone left there would be no PvP.

 

This is the issue you guys don't answer. You just say YOU should leave which is why I call it selfish. It does not work if everyone does it.

 

You do realize that this is a discussion about a video game, right?

 

If you are in a golf game to you throw away the other persons ball when he is not looking and ruin his game because it's a game? No. It's a game you play with other people so I try and not ruin the game for others.

Edited January 26, 2012 by richardya

[somerandumb]

Put in a deserter debuff and I will start AFKing just like I did in WoW.

 

Would you rather I leave or AFK? Your choice.

[richardya]

Put in a deserter debuff and I will start AFKing just like I did in WoW.

 

Would you rather I leave or AFK? Your choice.

 

So you will either ruin other peoples matches by AFK'ing or leaving them with 7 V 8. I don't know which is worse, you certainly proved your point, you got me.

[DarthNethus]

Let me ask you one question. If everyone left when the following happened, tell me what would happen:

 

1) Other team was over geared

2) Teammates were bad

3) Game was imbalanced

4) They only had 7 on their team (someone left)

5) The zone was bugged

6) War zone favored one class

 

Tell me what would happen if everyone left in those circumstances?

Answer this.

 

So...either everyone sticks it out or everyone leaves.

What is your solution. I gave one, my solution is stick it out.

What you propose is that YOU should leave and everyone else should stay. Because if everyone left there would be no PvP.

 

Honestly, man... People do stick it out more often than not. If they didn't, and if your examples above were to hold statistically and mathematically true... There would be no existing WZ's right now and we wouldn't be having this conversation.

 

My solution to all of this is to face PUGs vs. PUGs and Premades vs. Premades.

 

Other games have done this with great success.

 

Premades get their competition and PUGs don't have to get farmed and leave games looking for less fail PUGs to play with or against.

 

Everyone wins.

 

Notice that I state that opinion and proposed solution without having to throw sand at anyone or claim that they or people like them are bad people or "ruining the game for 15 other people" or whatever you want to say.

 

Insults beget insults on these boards, man. It's a slippery slope. Next thing you know, posts are getting deleted and people are getting warnings.

 

I understand your point. My counter-point is that it's not as simple as that.

 

A great many people are NOT having fun playing WZs with the current system as it stands. As a result of this, people give up on the "fun" aspect and simply do what they have to do in order to finish their daily or whatever.

^That is not good for the game, for PVP, or for the players.

 

Trying to pretend that anyone who says the system is flawed, needs adjustments, etc is "Just making excuses" is kind of short-sighted at best and ignorant or obtuse at worst.

 

That's all I'm saying.

 

Edit:

Do you actually know how to read? Because I never once said that I think "I should leave and everyone else should stay".

What I've said throughout this thread (if you do know how to read) is that I understand why people leave games and I don't blame them for it.

 

I've left games and I've explained throughout this thread:

• Why I've left games.
  
• What I've done to avoid leaving games.
  
• What I think could be improved about the system to keep people from losing interest in PVP/WZs and keep them from leaving games.
  
• Why I believe a harsh penalty (more than 10-15minutes) would be counterproductive.
  

 

Your proposed solutions:

• Stick it out.
  
• If you leave games your are selfish scum
  

 

Nothing further, Your Honor. The Defense Rests.

Edited January 26, 2012 by DarthNethus

[BuckeyeChris]

Put in a deserter debuff and I will start AFKing just like I did in WoW.

 

Would you rather I leave or AFK? Your choice.

 

I'd rather you quit the game personally, because you are completely selfish. Grow a pair and pvp.

[Airoper]

dont let you leave or if you leave 2 in a row you get a 15min bebuff

[Thundertaint]

Funny thing is, I'll bet any amount of money the people who are dumb enough to solo queue all the time and whine about premades are the same ones who cried about level 50's not having their own bracket. You got your way and now those "fresh" 50s get to play with "coordinated" teams. Now, you want said "coordinated" teams to only be able to play with other "coordinated" teams, which further compartmentalizes the population from which level 50 war zones are formed. I don't know if you're smart enough to realize it, but until more people actually bother hitting level 50, the 50's bracket is more often than not a small fraction of the population who end up playing together because they want to win. And thanks to those low levels'[read:your] incessant whining about level 50's gibbing low level players, said resulting small population remains isolated. And because of this isolation, the lower level players have no driving force to level up and compete with the level 50's. Honestly, you have no one else to blame about coming up against good players who coordinate with the good players they can befriend, because they want to win.

 

You got your cake, and now you're whining because you can't eat it too. Make some friggin' friends and quit crying.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Thundertaint

[Necrokill]

Leaving just because it's a loss is pathetic. I can understand leaving a wz against premade farmfests, but just because you dont win? Don't do pvp if you can't handle a loss.

 

Are you going to leave the WZ when it's 2mins left and ur losing by 1-2 goal(s) (lets say ur team had bad positioning) even thought it's quite balanced and the fights are really intense? If the answer is yes - never hit the queue button again.

 

Hell, my most enjoyable battles have been losses.

[Rallic]

I am getting so tired of entering a half finished War zone nearly 70% of the war zones I enter are already half finished and 95% of those, the team you join are usually losing.

 

So please please start punishing these deserters they don't deserve to enter and new War zone 2 minutes later and then again ruin it for someone else because they will again leave.

 

So I'll add a little more

 

The "I only have limited amount of time to play a day" response what a load of crap other people have the same problem as you, but unlike you they don't decide to screw over the rest of their team and other players who have to take your spot, just because they believe they have a right to be on the winning side.

 

The ones that leave are usually the ones that have become so accustomed to good players carrying there useless *** they start to believe they are actually pro them self's, and because the other side is playing better everyone on their team must be really **** except of course them self.

 

No I don't believe a 2 hour debuff is ridiculous it would make people actually try harder if their team was losing as going afk or just leaving wouldn't really be a option anymore. Of course CERTAIN bug would have to be ironed out of the game.

 

 

God no not unless they add in a join new game only tab, if I join a 5v0game with a lot of time on it I drop . And would stop qing at all if I was forced to stay in a 1/2 over losing game that had most of the team drop from already

Edited January 27, 2012 by Paralassa

[DarthNethus]

This is the issue you guys don't answer. You just say YOU should leave which is why I call it selfish. It does not work if everyone does it.

 

If you are in a golf game to you throw away the other persons ball when he is not looking and ruin his game because it's a game? No. It's a game you play with other people so I try and not ruin the game for others.

 

To address this question and edit...

 

Once more, I'm not saying that "I should leave". Where the hell did you come up with this?

 

I'm not saying that ANYONE should leave. I'm saying that the system should be fun and balanced. I'm saying that no one should WANT to leave.

And I've stated how I feel that could be accomplished.

 

And comparing a WZ to a game of Golf (I don't golf, btw LOL) is totally apples and oranges.

 

I find it highly unlikely that your golf buddies or whoever you're playing against in a golf game are going to team up against you, farm wins off of you and beat your face in with their superior golf gear until you're so fed up that you don't want to play anymore...

 

Bad analogy.

Edited January 26, 2012 by DarthNethus

[Dayshadow]

They should lose the valor commendations they've earned up to that point (i.e. get negative valor and commendations). Or be put "in the hole" and have negative points to work off before they can actually gain more valor/comms so that they can't lose ranks. Edited January 26, 2012 by Dayshadow

[-Arcane-]

Op: this is why i only play with guildies, if the pug bads leave oh well im still gonna have a good game.

[DarthMcFay]

They need to let full ops in and let you choose what map you want to do. I left some WZ's yesterday, not for fear of losing, but it was like the 5th Huttball in a row and I like Huttball the least!

 

P.S. I left right away I didn't leave in the middle

[richardya]

OK This post you made some points so I will respond.

 

Honestly, man... People do stick it out more often than not. If they didn't, and if your examples above were to hold statistically and mathematically true... There would be no existing WZ's right now and we wouldn't be having this conversation.

 

The reason we have war zones now is because most stick it out. I am sure that is because most people are like me. If you look at what percent of games have "valid" reasons for quitting as per this thread, on either side, you woulld basically have it at like 90%. I mean almost every game has people making mistakes or less geared orsick of hutball, hate voidstar, other team is premade, other team is better geared, my teammates stink. If we all left when we felt this..........

 

My solution to all of this is to face PUGs vs. PUGs and Premades vs. Premades.....

 

This is a long term solution but I am talking about the short term, like now. I personally like PuG vs premade but here you have a valid point. BUT-What about today, today we have PuG vs Premade so do people just bail in this situation?

 

Notice that I state that opinion and proposed solution without having to throw sand at anyone or claim that they or people like them are bad people or "ruining the game for 15 other people" or whatever you want to say.

 

Insults beget insults on these boards, man. It's a slippery slope. Next thing you know, posts are getting deleted and people are getting warnings.

 

I never insulted anyone, I said that certain behvaior is selfish and I still say that because I am stating that it is a solution for the individual only. It's not a name or insult.

 

A great many people are NOT having fun playing WZs with the current system as it stands. As a result of this, people give up on the "fun" aspect and simply do what they have to do in order to finish their daily or whatever.

^That is not good for the game, for PVP, or for the players.

 

Trying to pretend that anyone who says the system is flawed, needs adjustments, etc is "Just making excuses" is kind of short-sighted at best and ignorant or obtuse at worst.

 

That's all I'm saying.

 

This is off topic from why we can't all leave WZ in the middle. Again, if we all left when felt this we would have no PvP. It's almost every game.

 

Edit: Do you actually know how to read? Because I never once said that I think "I should leave and everyone else should stay".

What I've said throughout this thread (if you do know how to read) is that I understand why people leave games and I don't blame them for it.

 

On a percentage basis if everyone left when the stated reasons in this thread (sick of hutball, hate voidstar, other team is premade, other team is better geared, my teammates stink) popped up then PvP would end. If my last statement is true then I am inferring that you propose this. In actuality its just a player only thinking about the current WZ and not the greater good.

 

PS No i don't know how to read, my mommy is reading your posts to me and I am verbally dictating to her my responses which she is transcribing.

 

The prosecution rests

Edited January 26, 2012 by richardya

[GutPunch]

I will not support a timer for leaving a WZ early until we can premade a full 8 man WZ and a "bads" list to blacklist *******/afkers who I never ever want to play with again. Too many ******* running around medal chasing, AFKing in a corner, or just generally failing at comprehending the objectives. I've got more than enough people on TS to play with and we will finish a WZ one way or the other - for nothing else but the commendations if it comes to it. However, having to wait on a WZ end because of 1-3 AFKers and the enemy team holding the ball for medals... screw that I'm out. Edited January 26, 2012 by GutPunch

[Ruwe]

Here is a simple solution, it will actually solve two problems at once

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=204881

 

for those of you who can't be bothered to read another link I'll do a quick summary for you.

 

Basically the OP on that thread had an idea to make the pvp rewards system objective based instead of totally random, he's not saying to completely remove the RNG bags, but to put in class based objectives that you have to complete during WZ's to finish off your daily/weekly ect. Not just, "Go win one for the Gipper and we'll give you a bag that you won't get a drop out of!". Under his system it would promote players to *gasp* actually learn to play their class, you would get medals based off of utilizing your class skills! (Plus of course actually capturing/holding objectives ect)

 

Since even during a losing match you would be working towards a goal of getting your class based/objective based medals to complete a quest, there would be less people quitting, it would facilitate people learning to play their class.... It's a long thread but has numerous good ideas in it that would help put a breath of fresh air into pvp.

 

Edit: The idea was also put forth to limit the number of medals you can gain in any one given match just to prevent things like the above post, i.e. holding the huttball to farm more medals... ect.

 

Maybe, just maybe... it would even help to keep people from coming onto the forums and adding nothing constructive to the conversation aside from throwing insults around

Edited January 26, 2012 by Ruwe

[Drungus]

Adding a deserter debuff won't fix the core of the problem. The core of the problem is the reason why people leave warzones. It's when the favors are highly against them. You can see it happening when everybody just gets stomped by the opposing team without having a feeling of doing any damage at all. It happens when the opposing team consists of 4 healers and other random classes, or when there's a premade with a couple of force players swiftly scoring in Huttball. I think they should add a separate queue for premades and base the warzones on valor rank. Also balance the classes so that you can't have 4 healers in one team for example.

[DarthNethus]

First, (and off-topic) I appreciate your thought-out response this time.

Now back to the discussion...

 

This is off topic from why we can't all leave WZ in the middle. Again, if we all left when felt this we would have no PvP. It's almost every game.

 

No, it isn't off-topic. I'm addressing the reasons why people leave and how it could be prevented... And also agreeing with you in that if things keep going this way, we will eventually have no PVP.

 

On a percentage basis if everyone left when the stated reasons in this thread (sick of hutball, hate voidstar, other team is premade, other team is better geared, my teammates stink) popped up then PvP would end. If my last statement is true then I am inferring that you propose this. In actuality its just a player only thinking about the current WZ and not the greater good.

 

The prosecution rests

 

Except that I'm not proposing this be what people should do. I'm proposing that the very fact people do it in the first place is evidence that the system is flawed and needs to be changed before it gets even worse.

I'm also stating that the complaints or concerns that people have in many of these areas are valid where, in your opinion, they are simply "Pathetic Excuses".

We must, I'm afraid, agree to disagree on this one.

 

At the core of this issue lies the problem of human nature, which I'm not going to get into because it A.) Doesn't help either of us to discuss here; and B.) Will probably end up getting us both banned... LOL

 

 

Your witness, councilor.

Edited January 26, 2012 by DarthNethus

[DarthNethus]

 

PS No i don't know how to read, my mommy is reading your posts to me and I am verbally dictating to her my responses which she is transcribing.

 

The prosecution rests

 

Well played, sir