Tracer Missile, I get it.

[Yosemiteesam]

it is 33% longer, reducing our dps by probably .7*.33 =23.1% damage reduction assuming we need to use tracer about 70% of the time to keep the stacks up for rail shot even if only 40% of our shots are TM it would be a 13.2% reduction in TM dps PLUS the loss of dps because debuffs/buffs are not maximized

 

it truly IS a lot, and a major breaking of the class, and in pve we will not be welcome in raids

 

we need to hit 3 tm to get 5 heat sigs, (for hs) we need to hit 5 tm to get 5 stacks for armor debuff and damage protection and rails shot ... oh and dont forget the 33% drop in procs for unload (over time) which is a 25% dps boost, you just lightented our unload dps by 8 %

 

to summarize you have requested

 

a 33% dps reduction in TM (equating to between 13 and 23% overall dps reduction

a 8% dps drop to unload damage as well as longer between unload shot

a reduction in bonus damage to rail shot (full stacks would take an extra 2.5 seconds to achieve which in pvp is eternity)

a reduction in bonus damage to heat seeker (full stacks would take and extra 1.5 seconds to achieve which in pvp is an eternity)

 

 

I would guestimate you are looking at a 20-30% reduction in overall damage we could do

 

 

What people dont realize (surprised you dont if you actually used the class) that TM positively effects pretty much everything else arsenal uses except for quickshot,

 

TM is the base of the pyramid, nerf it and the trickle up effect would destroy the tree

 

your request is game breaking for the class.

 

My request is far from game breaking for this class. Its a simple change, that yes might change your dps but not by 20% because you are also venting heat during the time period in which that extra .5 secs is being casted which in a PvE scenario can be fixed by a slight alteration of priority stats that currently have. Tracer missile is an arcane blast that stacks armor reduction. Thats most simple way to put it. You stack armor reduction to make the rest of your abilities do more damage. In a PvP scenario Yes I agree if you left a Merc sit there and spam TM on you, you should probably go play hello kitty island adventure. But I know from my point of view a healer that isnt much i can do. If I get engaged upon when its a TM specced merc or a grav round specced commando and some other misc dps class i might as well let them kill me because their main hitting dps ability has a faster cast time then my main heal ability. Thats my problem.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Yosemiteesam

[Korodoch]

Why are people comparing 2 vastly different classes anyway?

 

None of the points presented is valid that way because the two classes don't share the same mechanics.

[Yazule]

My request is far from game breaking for this class. Its a simple change, that yes might change your dps but not by 20% because you are also venting heat during the time period in which that extra .5 secs is being casted which in a PvE scenario can be fixed by a slight alteration of priority stats that currently have. Tracer missile is an arcane blast that stacks armor reduction. Thats most simple way to put it. You stack armor reduction to make the rest of your abilities do more damage. In a PvP scenario Yes I agree if you left a Merc sit there and spam TM on you, you should probably go play hello kitty island adventure. But I know from my point of view a healer that isnt much i can do. If I get engaged upon when its a TM specced merc or a grav round specced commando and some other misc dps class i might as well let them kill me because their main hitting dps ability has a faster cast time then my main heal ability. Thats my problem.

 

you tell me where my math is wrong and i will continue the conversation, when i detail numbers and you say "no its not" that is not a counter argument.

[Kunovega]

^ this

 

Also i use a well rounded No heat problem rotation of skills depending on situations.

 

for the most part i use Unload > TMx3 > Rail shot >Power shot x3 > Unload spam till things die

 

rail shot is not maxed until you reach 5, its heat seeker that is maxed on 3 (if talented properly)

 

also, power shot is not as efficient unless the target is near dead because you should be rebuilding rail shot buff and keeping armor debuff up with tracers

 

Unload > TMx3 > heat seeker > TMx2 > Rail Shot

 

Repeat ad naseum throwing in unloads when they proc refresh faster than its cooldown

 

The buff for rail shot is on you btw, and rail shot is garbage unless that buff reaches 5. the debuff for heat seeker is on the target enemy and can be kept up with a fresh tracer every few seconds

 

If the target is nearing death (under 10k health), switching to power shot over heat seeker will finish them faster, still doing unload instead if it procs

 

At least for single target dps, multi target is another issue

[Kunovega]

This probably a good explanation. People fear TM spam when in reality, TM is just a tool that gets you to a place where another ability really hurts you.

 

Without repeating my whole post from earlier:

"For both PvP and PvE, if you just sit there and spam TM or if you complain about someone who sits and spams TM, then you are an idiot."

 

Ignorant, may be nicer than idiot, but the point is the same.

 

well, to be fair heat seeker and rail shot are instant and quite frankly rail shot goes by so quickly they have almost no way to know they were even hit with it

 

pretty much all people see is us standing there waiting to cast tracer missle than after a few of them their life bar drops super fast and they didnt even see the heat seeker or rail shot instant casts so they assume it was all part of the tracer explosion

[TempestasSilva]

well, to be fair heat seeker and rail shot are instant and quite frankly rail shot goes by so quickly they have almost no way to know they were even hit with it

 

pretty much all people see is us standing there waiting to cast tracer missle than after a few of them their life bar drops super fast and they didnt even see the heat seeker or rail shot instant casts so they assume it was all part of the tracer explosion

 

You are totally right and your other post was spot on too. Thanks for the contributions.

 

My fear is that all the ignorant "OMG NERF TM/Grav" whining, of which there is A LOT, will eventually result in nerfs to TM when in fact IF...I repeat IF Arsenal Mercs are OP, it is probably another skill/mechanic that is the problem so they won't be nerfed correctly.

 

Personally, it does not directly matter to me as I am Bodyguard Spec'd, but I tried arsenal while leveling and didn't like the mechanic, where as I tried Pyro and did. So even if I went DPS, it would not be as Arsenal.

 

I just hate seeing anyone call for nerfs out of ignorance.

 

Although to be fair, as you point out...its hard for them to know. If we had a combat log that after you died, you could review it and see what killed you when/how/etc., then people might be able to make better informed arguments.

[Kunovega]

You are totally right and your other post was spot on too. Thanks for the contributions.

 

My fear is that all the ignorant "OMG NERF TM/Grav" whining, of which there is A LOT, will eventually result in nerfs to TM when in fact IF...I repeat IF Arsenal Mercs are OP, it is probably another skill/mechanic that is the problem so they won't be nerfed correctly.

 

Personally, it does not directly matter to me as I am Bodyguard Spec'd, but I tried arsenal while leveling and didn't like the mechanic, where as I tried Pyro and did. So even if I went DPS, it would not be as Arsenal.

 

I just hate seeing anyone call for nerfs out of ignorance.

 

Although to be fair, as you point out...its hard for them to know. If we had a combat log that after you died, you could review it and see what killed you when/how/etc., then people might be able to make better informed arguments.

 

ive tested all 3 trees and while healers are welcome in any scenario (pvp or pve), it should be noted that pyro is really only of much value for pvp (where the extra mobility and the dot ticks to keep people from planting/taking are of some value). arsenal in pve garners an average 20 to 30% more damage over time in long boss encounters and is far more valued for beating rage timers in raids

 

pyro lacks the armor piercing or continuous heat venting on crits to keep up in long boss encounters pve

 

arsenal is harder to make useful in pvp unless you are highly aware of your surroundings or have a team that will keep people off you while you turret

Edited January 26, 2012 by Kunovega

[IGForever]

Also you have a talent that refunds basically half the cost of TM when you crit. It also does 30% more damage (snipe has nothing similar)

 

I agreed with OP, and TM not affected by 30% more damage on critical hit, only unload and heatseeker

[Cegenaus]

well, to be fair heat seeker and rail shot are instant and quite frankly rail shot goes by so quickly they have almost no way to know they were even hit with it

 

pretty much all people see is us standing there waiting to cast tracer missle than after a few of them their life bar drops super fast and they didnt even see the heat seeker or rail shot instant casts so they assume it was all part of the tracer explosion

 

thats my point, youre gonna spam 5 tracers and then the majority of their heath is gonna come off with HSM + RS + unload (if procced). ive demolished people with this end of the rotation and i can almost guarantee all they saw were the 5 tracers i threw at them before that. what people also fail to see is when i throw explosive dart + fusion missile + DFA + sweeping blasters + missile blast at their group and then wonder how i hit 200K+ damage. i dont know of any other class that has two rotations but yet we get **** for using one skill

 

personally i think if they moved some of our debuffs around so we had to use more skills in between tracer we'd still do the same damage and theyd be perplexed to how we would be doing so well after a "nerf"

[Skapek-Skocap]

It litterally powers all of our abilities, we have to use it. If you're a smart BH you don't spam it though. In PvP I usually just stack it three times on someone so I can use Heatseekers.

 

And by that time you usually get lucky with the Unload buff and have increased damage for rail shot. It's a great attack and I've loved it since the day I got it.

 

I hope it doesn't get nerfed, because it's not OP.

[Stranded_Law]

ive tested all 3 trees and while healers are welcome in any scenario (pvp or pve), it should be noted that pyro is really only of much value for pvp (where the extra mobility and the dot ticks to keep people from planting/taking are of some value). arsenal in pve garners an average 20 to 30% more damage over time in long boss encounters and is far more valued for beating rage timers in raids

 

pyro lacks the armor piercing or continuous heat venting on crits to keep up in long boss encounters pve

 

arsenal is harder to make useful in pvp unless you are highly aware of your surroundings or have a team that will keep people off you while you turret

 

But a pyro can vent 66 heat every 90 seconds, as opposed to every 120. As long as our target is always burning, the numbers from an equally-skilled BH start to even out.

 

You don't see the big numbers as often, but all the DOTs are devastating over long fights. If anything, we're better the longer a fight is. Anything over three minutes, and we'd start overtaking Arsenal. Only bad Pyros have heat problems. And a pve Pyro with Automated Defenses critting with those Dot ticks will have TSO activations 2-3 times more often.

 

There is so much most people don't think about that if done correctly make Pyro very viable for all content, even head to head with Arsenal. And in the final 30% of a HM boss where people are worried about enrage timers, all of our periodic damage is increased by 30%. That is massive. The more HP a boss has, the better a Pyro is.

Edited January 27, 2012 by Stranded_Law

[ugig]

ive tested all 3 trees and while healers are welcome in any scenario (pvp or pve), it should be noted that pyro is really only of much value for pvp (where the extra mobility and the dot ticks to keep people from planting/taking are of some value). arsenal in pve garners an average 20 to 30% more damage over time in long boss encounters and is far more valued for beating rage timers in raids

 

pyro lacks the armor piercing or continuous heat venting on crits to keep up in long boss encounters pve

 

arsenal is harder to make useful in pvp unless you are highly aware of your surroundings or have a team that will keep people off you while you turret

 

You dont have to turret as an arsenal though, you can be mobile, never ever hit TM more than two to 3 times before moving, and if you allways do what you can to keep some sort of enviromental LoS within running distance you will be less a turret and more a mobile platform.

[Gadrak]

just stop complaining about arsenal

 

we dont have interrupts

 

we dont have any sort of escape ability

 

there is actually no class that we can beat 1v1 besides snipers and juggs

 

our only defense is a knockdown that is only useful on huttball...

 

..and if we get interrupted we are dead.

[ahwinters]

Not sure where you get these numbers. My tracer missile base is like 1800.

 

Not that I am EVER specced Arsenal. It is hands down the worst of the 3 specs.

[Loladarulz]

Agree with OP, arsenal really needs to fire TM most of the time - or class would suck. Its that or respeccing. Now yes its boring but its the only way to play arsenal spec.

[NightHawke]

For an ability obtained so early, uses very little ammo/heat generation, and hits a target no matter LoS during "cast time", I think the timer should be 2 seconds with a 10 second cooldown. And or generate more heat to make it ok to use, but not.

 

 

Honestly, I see a Merc spamming Tracer and I ignore everything and everyone and outright kill him first and foremost because it irritates the crap out of me seeing someone doing 2k+ damage every 1.5 seconds adding armor penetration with each shot and I am the one getting nerfed?

 

Oh yeah, rage kill every time.

[NightHawke]

just stop complaining about arsenal

 

we dont have interrupts

 

we dont have any sort of escape ability

 

there is actually no class that we can beat 1v1 besides snipers and juggs

 

our only defense is a knockdown that is only useful on huttball...

 

..and if we get interrupted we are dead.

 

You dont have interrupts? Every base class gets an interrupt.

[Kahzard]

You dont have interrupts? Every base class gets an interrupt.

 

We do get stuns and knockbacks, but no true interrupt...unless I am missing an ability/haven't gotten it yet on my Merc

[DervimNorth]

We do get stuns and knockbacks, but no true interrupt...unless I am missing an ability/haven't gotten it yet on my Merc

 

We are ranged class with a melee aoe knockback and a ranged stun. We don't have a full-time interrupt like the rest of the classes. We can take one more knockback on our melee range nuke, but it costs two skillpoints and it barely knocks back, for 2m or so, which isn't much of a help save for huttball, when you can knock someone over the ledge or into the hazard.

 

 

For an ability obtained so early, uses very little ammo/heat generation, and hits a target no matter LoS during "cast time", I think the timer should be 2 seconds with a 10 second cooldown. And or generate more heat to make it ok to use, but not.

 

 

Honestly, I see a Merc spamming Tracer and I ignore everything and everyone and outright kill him first and foremost because it irritates the crap out of me seeing someone doing 2k+ damage every 1.5 seconds adding armor penetration with each shot and I am the one getting nerfed?

 

Oh yeah, rage kill every time.

 

Why won't you just give us a water gun instead of TM or RS, while you're at it?

 

You keep complaining about TM, but as lvl12 gunslinger I'm doing same non-cirt damage to lvl 49 in pvp match as my merc's TM. Only difference is that my gunslinger is low on crit chance and surge and he doesn't have(yet) any instant follow-up nukes to burst just as hard. Sure thing "it's only lvl12", and,"it's because you're getting buffed"...Yeah, well my power shot used to do lower damage than that at lvl12 and it became a whole lot more powerful. So I can't wait to see those crazy crits I'm going to unleash with stacked crits and surge.

 

And yes, I need to go into the cover and it's annoying, but it also makes my gunslinger live longer and there's a skill that allows me to use snipe/charged shot after leaving the cover, not to mention all the on-the move damage abilities that I have and can have, which makes me more mobile=live longer=more dps than my merc.

 

 

Make no mistake, I already miss all the aoe attacks from my merc, slinger/sniper has those as well, but you need to spec into that tree and you're losing single target dps burst while merc/commando can have both(and do a little bit of healing+cleansing).

Edited January 27, 2012 by DervimNorth

[Anelyn]

They complain because they can complain, there is nothing else at it. We hit hard with all abilities because we have 35% ARP passive. Add 20% more from heat signatures (5 stacks) and we have 55% ARP. Which means little vs soft targets, but a lot vs heavy armor ones.

 

Complaining about TM spam is like complaining about lightning strike for a lightning sorc etc. Is silly.

[NightHawke]

We do get stuns and knockbacks, but no true interrupt...unless I am missing an ability/haven't gotten it yet on my Merc

 

 

Do you not get Quell as a Bounty Hunter General Ability at level 18?

[Yazule]

Do you not get Quell as a Bounty Hunter General Ability at level 18?

 

powertech only

[Gadrak]

You dont have interrupts? Every base class gets an interrupt.

 

if you dont even know of what are you talking about stop posting asking for stupid nerfs

[HarassMe]

tracer missile is a means to an end... it procs so many abilities that you have to use it. I dont have any problems with the ability, i think people are more annoyed with the animation than anything else.

 

i prioritize proc'd unloads and watch them crit for 2000-2200 a tick... thats pretty sick damage off an ability that is heat neutral even without terminal velocity.

[RyuKazuha]

They just see three big bangs, miss the blastershots and credit everything to the TMs..