carbocat Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I feel your pain, much like the 50's complaining about losing easy kills you too are sad that your easy kills are going away. A tear for the loss of easy gameplay.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ica7SGhjFBw&feature=related there you go, just one of many vids you can find on youtube. That dosnt prove a *****. You posted a oprative that abuse stim/adrenal stacking and going on low lvl`s. As OP said: find a video of oprative crit 7-8-9k WITHOUT buff stacking/adrenal abuse and are going on same lvl target with qual gear. But not your fault you cant read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valsdad Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 EXACTLY!!! Bioware thinks you're OP, they're reducing your damage. I'm not the one whining on the forums about it. Please take your own advice and accept that Bioware feels the numbers are higher than intended. What happens after the nerf? Personally, I know I will still roll bad players and will burst almost as hard. But, I usually call when I have relics / vanish ready and have a nice 0 resolve target picked out. So, after I'm nerfed I'll do this: Pop relic -> open with back blast loaded with flechette round -> dirty kick -> vital shot -> blaster whip -> vanish -> shoot first with flechette round -> sucker punch until dead -> target runs to forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lykurgus Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Vanish has 3 min cd. 2 mins with talents Sir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aleiro Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Opener HAS to be from stealth. Vanish has a 2 min cool down. So yeah, it kind works out the same wouldnt you say? Maybe, the real problem is that it takes me 4 global cooldowns what takes you 1 global cooldown and I can't really do a lot to avoid it. I think the main problem is that they put huge damage on a stun opener, something that i had never seen. You put a different ability for stun and another for big damage from stealth, isn't that a little better? I still think the nerf might be too big for you guys. And I don't think it is quite the same since you have another stun that you can use off stealth on a much smaller cooldown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aleiro Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 You have not replied about the last video I posted by the way... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lykurgus Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) Maybe, the real problem is that it takes me 4 global cooldowns what takes you 1 global cooldown and I can't really do a lot to avoid it. I think the main problem is that they put huge damage on a stun opener, something that i had never seen. You put a different ability for stun and another for big damage from stealth, isn't that a little better? I still think the nerf might be too big for you guys. And I don't think it is quite the same since you have another stun that you can use off stealth on a much smaller cooldown. I agree. I think having a stun with huge damage is an issue. Or rather was an issue pre 1.1 Thats kinda the whole point here dude, after they fixed stat buffing in 1.1 OPs simply cant put out the kind of damage they could. If they could the surley by now SOMEONE would have posted a vid of these fabled 9k crits. Thats a post 1.1 vid to be accurate! 21 pages of going round in circles so far! Edited January 25, 2012 by Lykurgus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lykurgus Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 You have not replied about the last video I posted by the way... Lushbits did already mate, bottom of page 19 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aleiro Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I agree. I think having a stun with huge damage is an issue. Or rather was an issue pre 1.1 Thats kinda the whole point here dude, after they fixed stat buffing in 1.1 OPs simply cant put out the kind of damage they could. If they could the surley by now SOMEONE would have posted a vid of these fabled 9k crits. Thats a post 1.1 vid to be accurate! 21 pages of going round in circles so far! I posted a nice vid of an op pulling 8-11k damage on 3 global cooldowns its on the previous pages .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 What happens after the nerf? Personally, I know I will still roll bad players and will burst almost as hard. But, I usually call when I have relics / vanish ready and have a nice 0 resolve target picked out. So, after I'm nerfed I'll do this: Pop relic -> open with back blast loaded with flechette round -> dirty kick -> vital shot -> blaster whip -> vanish -> shoot first with flechette round -> sucker punch until dead -> target runs to forums So...you think you should be nerfed more because you sound confident you'll still do the same type of damage? Noted. I'm sure the Devs will also be watching this. Glad you support the changes and wish more was being done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aleiro Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) Closest one yet. /clap 1. For starters, the gunslinger is OUT OF COVER. Which is equal to a Sorc without a shield. Cover is the number one def. skill for gunslingers, which absorbs a lot of dmg. I don't see a problem with them getting hammered outside of cover. That should be their weakness, agree? 2. He has 12,9k hp, so no, he probably have something like 0 expertise. (no pvp gear that is) 3. Damage output: 4703 (crit)26714712672671653765 (crit)2671607 That is a total of 11267 dmg, over 8 seconds(ish, 0:20-0:28). WITH the 15% exp buff. Considering he might be semi-pvp geared before as well AND that the gunslinger is out of cover and in probably zero pvp gear judging from his hp. But I have to give you that - It was a close one! But 8 seconds, with 15% exp buff on a newly dinged (?) gunslinger out of cover. Meh. Next? yes he has a 15% expertise buff but at 4 pieces of champion that is maybe 300 expertise, rounded way up, +15% it is 345 expertise, if the buff works like that. That would be +1% (again rounded up) damage increase to players? hardly that much advantage i think. I'm not really sure about the cover mechanics Doesn't the opener get them out of cover? Edited January 25, 2012 by aleiro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isitme Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) this thread is funny, OP posts a video clearly showcasing how overpowered operatives are and tells us to post more? I would very much like to do that kind of damage in that amount of time on my sentinel. Its versus a tank for petes sake. This thread should be closed imo, original poster posting such a biased video to prove his non existant point is just wrong on so many levels. I just cant get over the fact its versus a tank. Oh, Bioware nerfed you because of their data and numbers, how is some whining on this forum going to change that? Edited January 25, 2012 by Isitme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aleiro Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Lol at http://www.twitch.tv/th3d0nut he just critted someone for 6.5 k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lushbits Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I'm not really sure about the cover mechanics. Doesn't the opener get them out of cover? Yes, but absorbs a lot of the damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lushbits Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Lol at http://www.twitch.tv/th3d0nut he just critted someone for 6.5 k I hate you for showing me that stream. Now I won't get any work done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lykurgus Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 this thread is funny, OP posts a video clearly showcasing how overpowered operatives are and tells us to post more? I would very much like to do that kind of damage in that amount of time on my sentinel. Its versus a tank for petes sake. This thread should be closed imo, original poster posting such a biased video to prove his non existant point is just wrong on so many levels. I just cant get over the fact its versus a tank. Oh, Bioware nerfed you because of their data and numbers, how is some whining on this forum going to change that? Did you read any of this thread? or just weigh in without bothering? Just curious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lykurgus Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 yes he has a 15% expertise buff but at 4 pieces of champion that is maybe 300 expertise, rounded way up, +15% it is 345 expertise, if the buff works like that. That would be +1% (again rounded up) damage increase to players? hardly that much advantage i think. I only have 262 expertise... i have a 6% increase/decrease/whatever. Does it have diminishing returns or some such? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isitme Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Did you read any of this thread? or just weigh in without bothering? Just curious I read a couple of pages but how does any of the points i brought up relate to what other people have written in this thread? The points i brought up: 1: OP posts the most biased video i have ever seen, which is so wrong on many levels. 2: Bioware nerfed ops because of their data. How does reading what other people wrote change any of these? Regarding point 2, im sure the nerf got here earlier because of the strong discontent among the players, but the nerf was done because of their data and numbers. Claiming anything else is just naive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RwNemo Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Ok, I'm going to rant a bit! What terrible players don't realize is that you just got hard switched on. The other team decided you needed to die, so 3 or more DPS switched to you when they had their smuggler out of combat. You hear BOOM from a shotgun and fall on your face so you blame the scoundrel. What you fail to realize is that you were only the first in designated focus fire kill chain probably being called out by the scoundrel as he/she switches targets. You terribles need to learn the concept of a hard switch or you are going to whine every class into oblivion. Oh, so now you know everything about my PvP? I can honestly say I got killed in the "3sec stun" prolly over 30 times. And how do I know a soundrel / OP was alone? Simple. I looked around. I have friends who are OP, so Ive seen quite a few times aswell. So what you magicians need to learn is that you dont know everything about everyone. Im not complaining, YOU are! You're basically saying that just becuase you cant crit 8k, or kill a lvl 50 in 3 seconds, that your class sucks? Team UP like the rest of us?! Quit your damn whining already. Soundrels / OP's were to powerful before the adjustment, now they are not. This whole thread is pointless. Maybe you guys can crit 7k, maybe you cant. Who gives a F? I agree that they dont need "ANOTHER" nerf, but something HAD to be done its that simple. Dont come talking to me about what I experienced in PvP etc, I know that alot better than you do. "I cant solo everyone anymore, I actually need to stick to my team and get help just like the rest of the vocations do, buhuuuu :(" Just stop it already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northwynde Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Obviously isn't gonna cut it homeboy. Video or go sailing. Ship already sailed, and it was the SS Minnow, with all the ops/smugs aboard. A Three hour tour.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lykurgus Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I read a couple of pages but how does any of the points i brought up relate to what other people have written in this thread? The points i brought up: 1: OP posts the most biased video i have ever seen, which is so wrong on many levels. 2: Bioware nerfed ops because of their data. How does reading what other people wrote change any of these? Regarding point 2, im sure the nerf got here earlier because of the strong discontent among the players, but the nerf was done because of their data and numbers. Claiming anything else is just naive. I disagree im afraid. The points the OP raised, IE all the QQ and about OPs was pre 1.1 stands. Sure the vid maybe biased, can you provide other evidence that proves beyond doubt that AFTER 1.1 they can stil kill people in 3-4 seconds? ofc you cant. I think the OP made an excellent point. The simple fact that in over 20 pages of replies not one person can offer anything other than a highly subjective opinion on the matter says a lot. As soon as somebody can post evidence that after the buff stacking fix in 1.1 OP/Scound are still criting for silly numbers then this thread will continue to be valid. Untill then its just peoples opinions, nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valsdad Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Oh, so now you know everything about my PvP? I can honestly say I got killed in the "3sec stun" prolly over 30 times.. I know that you are full of it if you're dying in 3 seconds to any class. Or you don't have gear, or you're not using defensive abilities correctly. I have about an even 50/50 split of getting to a sorc, for example, in stealth and them seeing me and popping their knock back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vexden Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I have a 50 Op with full Champ gear, and there are times that I can get lucky and 5 shot people still. (usually pretty rare though) When you add someone with equal gear, that completely changes. (especially with equal skill) Usually you can get people down to 60% health remaining and then duke it out from there. But with others having better sustained damage it makes it quite a fight if they have any skill at their class. As I have stated in other threads, I think they should remove the stun from the "Ambush / Hidden strike" style attack, and give the option to use a stun opener (something like cheap shot) so you can either try and blow up an opponent with no control, or choose to try and just control (or somewhat control) the opponent. Otherwise, I do agree that the opener is too powerful. Remove the 3 second stun, hell even nerf the opener a bit, but removing the armor pen making our even now crappy sustained damage worse will break us. (not just PVP but PVE as well) People say "but you are doing the damage out of STEALTH!" what about the snipers that can do somwhat the same burst damage, and more sustained damage from 35m away? The range classes do not NEED stealth, because it is not required. The other melee are not as squishy, or have gap closers which do not require stealth to start the fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RwNemo Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I know that you are full of it if you're dying in 3 seconds to any class. Or you don't have gear, or you're not using defensive abilities correctly. I have about an even 50/50 split of getting to a sorc, for example, in stealth and them seeing me and popping their knock back. Again. Listen here you wizzard. My stun release has a 2 min CD. I dont have knockbacks, I dont even have a decent CC. I dont die on any class, im a Marauder with 450+ expertise. I didnt die in 3 seconds to any class, I died in 3 seconds to soundrels / OP's. Now I dont do that anymore, problem solved? Idk about you, but without my "Unleash" Im not able to do any abilities when im stunned. Just stop it already. Soundrels / OP's are still high dmg dealers, you cant have everything served on a silver plate dude. Realize that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carbocat Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) Bad players will still come cry for nerf, and that Opratives are OP still after nerf. That goes for any class that beats a bad player. Its true, but sad Seen it in every MMO, bad players get beaten, and they start to call for "nerf`s". They still get beaten after nerf, and dev`s destroy a class. Gotta keep major player base happy In this situation, the sorc family. BUT, i know I will still steamroll bad players all day long, even after the nerf. Opratives <3 Edited January 25, 2012 by carbocat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sylusmoonsnake Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 I play a guardian. Operatives roll me. If they get the opener. Oh just let me hit that flimsy little punk in his toilet paper armor first, though. I assure you, they'll be sub 30% in one stun. They can usually get me to 60% in one stun to open, and from there, the fight's pretty winnable for them. People, I'll give you a hint: It's an ambush class. If they don't get the ambush, they suck. If they do, they can do pretty well. It's what they're DESIGNED TO DO. Maybe instead of screaming for nerfs, DROP AN AOE. Yes, they're good at what they do. SO IS EVERY OTHER CLASS! With all the bs around this topic, this is the most sense I have seen all day. They are supposed to be a stealth class and kill quickly, because unlike you they can't stand toe to toe and survive, hell they have like 2 abilities that are worth a crap out of stealth and one of them is their vanish. I don't play an op, have been rolled many times by them yes, but that is only if they get jump, if I see an op bounce on someone I hit macro, tab-dot, that way even if he gets his target down, he can't just vanish and we have him, and I run stealth scan almost every time its up. Granted stealth scan is a joke, I have managed to pop it and get them, not often, but at times. Class didn't need nerf they got, I won't say they didn't need nerf, but I am sick of mmos that pull out a chainsaw to nerf instead of a steak knife. I have seen it in every mmo and sadly will prob continue to. It is just sad that some people actually think balance means every class should be able to do the same as other classes. If you really think the op/smg should have there damage dropped to same as other classes then you will have to give them your mitigation and armor cause that aint fair, but wait then we would all just be playing the same class. Realize every class is supposed to do different things and have str and weaknesses, if you don't like your class weakness, don't start complaining about the other classes str. Reroll or punch out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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