(Challenge)SHOW ME PROOF!

[Lykurgus]

I lol'd so hard at your awesome statistical proof.

 

 

Then give the OP the proof hes asking for. Seriously, if OPs can do these ZOMG I GOT CRIT FOR OVER 9000!!!! openers post 1.1, where are the vids / screenies?

 

 

Im going to go out on a limb and say that nobody can provide it post 1.1 because with buff stacking fix its simply now longer possible.

 

But sure, go ahead and nerf the **** out of the least played class BW. Balance will be a truck load easier once everyone is playing a sorc anyway. Amirite?

[theangryllama]

You failed the Op's challenge: that guy is red the whole vid and ganking lowbies. (so double fail)

 

I am ok with some of the nerfs (dmg on shoot first) think arp nerf is dumb.

 

See i think it should be the other way around personally. The squishy backline ranged classes should be scared helpless of a op popping out and stabbing them. However being able to do almost the same damage to a tank in heavy armor (which stealth classes really should fear) was a bit much.

On the flipside though the acid blade nerf kills concealment pve

[da_krall]

Don't need to prove anything

BW's actions based on hard facts are all the proof you need

 

Hmm i dont think BW's actions to this point provide any proof that they know what they are doing in pvp.

[Acyu]

Err, did you think those were accurate numbers? In that way they were written? Jesus christ, no wonder these forums are so whack.

 

EDIT: Can someone just post a video already? This is getting Redonkulous!

 

If i thought it was remotely close to the actual numbers, I wouldn't have said anything. But it was nevertheless funny to me how hard you're trying and how no one is really biting. No one cares about a medicore-ly geared operative with one relic buff attacking a naked person or a geared operative attacking a fully decked out tank. No one needs to offer you any proof, and neither does BioWare need further proof other than their already-taken-place tests and nerf decisions.

 

I still experience crazy damages from operatives in the 50s bracket at ~330 expertise (gotta love bags). I can easily get from 100 -> 20% within 3-4 seconds. I have around 15,000 HP. No amount of proof or whatever you say is going to change what I saw and what I experienced.

[Lushbits]

Hmm i dont think BW's actions to this point provide any proof that they know what they are doing in pvp.

 

On a side note: I think it would be better to let BW handle it to be honest. The way Mythic handles it now is just horrendous. I mean, their track record for PvP i MMO's are not the greatest. Warhammer anyone?

[dartanisc]

Looks like the OP is mad he cant kill people in 10sec, combat stealth and wait for cd's to do it again. Looks like you actually have to learn how to play now. Have fun.

 

P.S HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA *Deep Breath* HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Lykurgus]

I still experience crazy damages from operatives in the 50s bracket at ~330 expertise (gotta love bags). I can easily get from 100 -> 20% within 3-4 seconds. I have around 15,000 HP. No amount of proof or whatever you say is going to change what I saw and what I experienced.

 

 

Personal experience does not count. Im sorry mate, but its pvp. Mostly a **** storm of AOE stuns and people running all over the place, how can you be 100% certain that someone else wasnt shooting you? The simple answer is you cant.

 

Hence the op asking for video evidence of it. Im valor rank 39 (not that high i know) but since i hit 50 i have NEVER been killed in the knockdown from an OP/Scound. Not once. I have never seen a crit of over 4k on me and i only have 262 expertise.

 

We're both playing the same game, yet we have different experiences (perception i think is better?) of what happening.

 

This is why i totaly agree with the OPs point. Its all just hear say and "this happened to me!!". Fair enough, prove it.

 

 

As they say on the interpipes, screenshot or it didnt happen

[Metallistic]

So OP is playing an Operative? That explains everything.

 

Don't worry man, a patch is on the way. Skillless kids will have to find another way to play besides mashing 2 buttons and roflstomping everyone.

[Lykurgus]

Don't worry man, a patch is on the way. Skillless kids will have to find another way to play besides mashing 2 buttons and roflstomping everyone.

 

OMG! They are nerfing BH/Trooper?!? w00t!

[Lushbits]

If i thought it was remotely close to the actual numbers, I wouldn't have said anything. But it was nevertheless funny to me how hard you're trying and how no one is really biting. No one cares about a medicore-ly geared operative with one relic buff attacking a naked person or a geared operative attacking a fully decked out tank. No one needs to offer you any proof, and neither does BioWare need further proof other than their already-taken-place tests and nerf decisions.

 

I still experience crazy damages from operatives in the 50s bracket at ~330 expertise (gotta love bags). I can easily get from 100 -> 20% within 3-4 seconds. I have around 15,000 HP. No amount of proof or whatever you say is going to change what I saw and what I experienced.

 

1: He's got better gear than you (400 exp)

2: 100 -> 20% within 3-4 seconds? Guess he's got team mates that hit you as well. Go figure that. Maybe you want to survive vs 5 ppl?

 

Again, please post a vid of an operative doing this kind of dmg ALONE vs equally geared player after the removal of buff stacking, as requested in the OP. Until that video is posted, your argument is invalid.

[Selout]

Then give the OP the proof hes asking for. Seriously, if OPs can do these ZOMG I GOT CRIT FOR OVER 9000!!!! openers post 1.1, where are the vids / screenies?

 

 

Im going to go out on a limb and say that nobody can provide it post 1.1 because with buff stacking fix its simply now longer possible.

 

But sure, go ahead and nerf the **** out of the least played class BW. Balance will be a truck load easier once everyone is playing a sorc anyway. Amirite?

 

Lol, least played class. Sorry, pretty sure slingers/snipers get that honor.

 

I don't understand all the fretting. If 1.1.1 over-nerfs scrapper/conceal, I don't think it would stay that way for long. They have already addressed PvP issues and its a little over a month since release. A month guys. So, have a little faith. This is the change that they proposed, let it run its course. So far, no class is woefully underpowered so it seems to me they've done alright with class balancing. This isn't WoW where they leave stuff broken, good and bad, for months. It seems like they actually do care about PvP.

[Newsinz]

Lol, least played class. Sorry, pretty sure slingers/snipers get that honor.

 

I don't understand all the fretting. If 1.1.1 over-nerfs scrapper/conceal, I don't think it would stay that way for long. They have already addressed PvP issues and its a little over a month since release. A month guys. So, have a little faith. This is the change that they proposed, let it run its course. So far, no class is woefully underpowered so it seems to me they've done alright with class balancing. This isn't WoW where they leave stuff broken, good and bad, for months. It seems like they actually do care about PvP.

 

 

I think what the main issue is currently.. is the fact that it's been a month and they are nerfing classes.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Newsinz

[Lykurgus]

Lol, least played class. Sorry, pretty sure slingers/snipers get that honor.

 

I don't understand all the fretting. If 1.1.1 over-nerfs scrapper/conceal, I don't think it would stay that way for long. They have already addressed PvP issues and its a little over a month since release. A month guys. So, have a little faith. This is the change that they proposed, let it run its course. So far, no class is woefully underpowered so it seems to me they've done alright with class balancing. This isn't WoW where they leave stuff broken, good and bad, for months. It seems like they actually do care about PvP.

 

 

Fair comment dude. I guess it just irks me that people spew random made up numbers with out any recompence. If someone could post a vid id accept the whines. My experience fighting OP/Scounds is clearly very different to alot of people here.

[da_krall]

So OP is playing an Operative? That explains everything.

 

Don't worry man, a patch is on the way. Skillless kids will have to find another way to play besides mashing 2 buttons and roflstomping everyone.

 

Yeah they can reroll as any of the other classes and skilllessly mash two buttons.

[Lushbits]

Lol, least played class. Sorry, pretty sure slingers/snipers get that honor.

 

I don't understand all the fretting. If 1.1.1 over-nerfs scrapper/conceal, I don't think it would stay that way for long. They have already addressed PvP issues and its a little over a month since release. A month guys. So, have a little faith. This is the change that they proposed, let it run its course. So far, no class is woefully underpowered so it seems to me they've done alright with class balancing. This isn't WoW where they leave stuff broken, good and bad, for months. It seems like they actually do care about PvP.

 

THey need to keep subscribers while they fix all the broken stuff (PvE and PvP). Until next content patch with more guild stuff, rated wzs, ui customization etc. they will ONLY cater to the masses. This nerf has nothing to do with balance. They have to keep the masses (sorcs) paying thru the buggy and bad launch.

 

We never said NO NERFS. Most of the ops even said that a nerf was in order. What is proposed in 1.1.1 is not a nerf. It wrecks the tree totally. And guess what. That will keep the player base paying long enough.

 

And with the other two trees already being broken (no TA on range tree, only 3 out of 5 heals used due to bad design, go read up on it) we really don't have any other spec to go. This is what's so frustrating as well. Wrecking the only tree that wasn't broken from the beginning.

 

Sigh.

 

Now; Where's that VIDEO!?

[-sasori]

Ok so we have all seen the videos of people rolling lowbies while they are simulatneously hyped up on adrenals, relics, and red buffs. I challenge anyone to make a video of them getting rolled in a stun by an operative that has no buffs rolling on them. I also challenge any operatives to make videos of them face rolling people in a stun while not using anything but self/ops buffs.

 

Lets keep in mind what people are claiming.

 

1. They are dying IN A 3 SECOND STUN

 

2. They are dying BEFORE THEY HAVE A CHANCE TO REACT

 

3. Heavy armor classes with 500+ exp are getting dropped to sub 30% in an opener.

 

There it is. You have your challenge. Now lets keep in mind that we are looking for clean kills with little/no outside help from teammates. This will be difficult but not impossible. No buffs except those that are applied in the starting areas. Also try to have some class...if you are level 49, dont go pick on lvl 11's to make a point...or seek them out and see if you can indeed kill them in your 3 second stun. Stop all damage after three seconds(2 attacks).

 

Good luck, I await your videos!

 

So in your sense, a class can never be overpowered when his unbalance only occurs once he overstacks buffs? I do not agree. Obviously BW does not agree. Whenever it warrants a nerf for the skills or for the buff stacking is another topic of it's own-

 

Besides you are only telling half the truth intentionally.

It's not just the Opening Burst, it's the overall package.

 

You may not hit as high as an average *derp* BH tracer missile spammer after your burst, but it's not like your starting to hit for 300 after your burst either.

 

It's not broken because you can cut 50% health on geared tanks in no sweat.

It's broken because you can deliver that kind of damage without a downside and counter.

Edited January 25, 2012 by -sasori

[Ssfbistimg]

Plenty vids out there on the subject and having pvped myself a lot i can content to the insane burst. Fact is bioware looked into it and yes they agreed it was op, its a good thing the class has so much utility. I would say the uprising of ops crying out about it indicates its a move in the right direction, much like 50s claiming brackets would destroy the universe.

 

lol what utility. they have one basic utility. sneak up behind and burst the F out of you. Now they have sneak up behind you tickle you to you pee. Then get facerolled or tuck and run.

[Tokosteef]

So far in this topic:

 

3 videos of 50's geared OP ganking lowbies and undergeared with adrenals up Pre-1.1 patch.

 

1 video of a 50 geared OP on a similar geared player damaging said player for max 30% of his HP

 

1 video of a 50 geared OP on a naked player critting 5k maximum.

 

Seriously, everybody is proving OP's point like this.

It's not possible to do 7k/8k crits anymore, and its also not possible to 3 hit someone remotely geared.

 

Show the proof OP asks for, because until then you are only making a fool out of yourself by saying 'it's simply a lie, they still do these crits'. No, they don't. And thats why you can't show it.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Tokosteef

[Piriste]

they're so overpowered they dont even have to hit me for me to die. There's no time to react cause i will just run into a fire trap.

 

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHH.

[Lykurgus]

It's not broken because you can cut 50% health on geared tanks in no sweat.

 

 

Prove. It.

 

 

Seriously, show us a vid of an OP/Scound doing this. Go ahead, if its "no sweat" it should be easy to setup right? Go ahead. We'll be waiting......

[ocping]

Scoundrels are OP imo.

 

I am lvl 50 marauder, i got 16k hp unbuffed with allmost full champion gear.

I was in a wz, and suddenly out of nowhere i got dropped in a stun, and in 2 secs i was down on 3.7k hp .. 2 secs srsly? I use to be fast to trinket that stun but in 2 secs that was to fast, and think about if you have trinket on cd..

 

Calling ******** on this one.

[Lushbits]

Mythic! Anyone home? Are you getting this?

 

Probably not, but hey... I'm going to leave this thread alone for the remainder of my work day. Looking forward to see all the videos never posted when I get home tonight.

[Lykurgus]

Mythic! Anyone home? Are you getting this?

 

Probably not, but hey... I'm going to leave this thread alone for the remainder of my work day. Looking forward to see all the videos never posted when I get home tonight.

 

 

 

Prepare to be massivley dissapoint by the huge lack of eveidence.

 

 

You cant prove that which does not exsit!

[Selout]

THey need to keep subscribers while they fix all the broken stuff (PvE and PvP). Until next content patch with more guild stuff, rated wzs, ui customization etc. they will ONLY cater to the masses. This nerf has nothing to do with balance. They have to keep the masses (sorcs) paying thru the buggy and bad launch.

 

We never said NO NERFS. Most of the ops even said that a nerf was in order. What is proposed in 1.1.1 is not a nerf. It wrecks the tree totally. And guess what. That will keep the player base paying long enough.

 

And with the other two trees already being broken (no TA on range tree, only 3 out of 5 heals used due to bad design, go read up on it) we really don't have any other spec to go. This is what's so frustrating as well. Wrecking the only tree that wasn't broken from the beginning.

 

Sigh.

 

Now; Where's that VIDEO!?

 

Well, you are in the monority sir. Most scrapper/conceal's argue for just leaving it the way it is. As an avid PvP'r (64 full battlemaster/champ... stupid non-drops) all of the nerfs seem justified. /shrug. When played properly, no other class can cause that kind of pressure that quickly... and I do mean properly. I'm sure all scrapper/conceal's regard themselves and the next Reckful but the truth is, there are only a few that even play it correctly.

 

As for the numbers... all I'll say is, you won't find those 8k's anymore but it still doesn't change the fact the burst potential is just too high right now for scrapper/conceals with all of the other tools they bring to the fight. Obviously, Bioware or whoever is looking at these things saw some numbers that weren't what they envisioned. Even in the patch notes, there was an explanation. They've done some pretty cool things with class balance in SWTOR. While getting nerfed is never fun, I would think the truly skilled scrapper/conceals welcome this so the game is overall better. Is it the only thing that's wrong? No... not by a longshot but you gotta start somewhere.

[grey_fox_uk]

After having read 11 pages of posts on this subject, I thought it was finally time for someone to come up with some concrete video evidence to back up the claims either way.

 

 

My credentials:

I currently play a level 1 Troll Rogue in World of Warcraft, and have spent literally MINUTES of game time in SWTOR researching this subject (I asked a guildie, who has a friend, who talked to a guy in general chat, who once played PvP on a level 15 OP).

Edited January 25, 2012 by grey_fox_uk