(Challenge)SHOW ME PROOF!

[darkwingduk]

Except stims, adrenals and relics are part of the game, so why would you not use them?

 

Q.F.T

 

Show a video how they are at all times in pvp. Buffed and with stims ect.

 

And you will see them doing insane damage. Cromar did a vanguard video and there was an agent that droped him from 17k hp to almost nothing in the stun duration.

 

But he was wearing high lvl pvp gear not like that is an excuse. Battle master gear.

 

About 12:30 sec in. Here is your proof. And he did it twice to him.

 

Edited January 26, 2012 by darkwingduk

[Hydrott]

Q.F.T

 

Show a video how they are at all times in pvp. Buffed and with stims ect.

 

And you will see them doing insane damage. Cromar did a vanguard video and there was an agent that droped him from 17k hp to almost nothing in the stun duration.

 

But he was wearing high lvl pvp gear not like that is an excuse. Battle master gear.

 

About 12:30 sec in. Here is your proof. And he did it twice to him.

 

 

The first time he got owned it was a fully buffed Agent AND an Assassin that opened up on him, the second time he got bursted by 3 people and the Agent was hitting him for 2k.

[Javacup]

And ignore the fact he got a healing medal for using a medpack...

 

Pre patch, battlemaster shadow and operative with stims, adrenals, and one with red buff. Nah he should have totally lived.

[Tycoon]

 

Did i win?

[Javacup]

 

Did i win?

 

Uh no, considering you think level 10-40's are high armor 500+ expertise classes. The first 50 he jumped solo wasn't at full health and came close to killing him.

[Tycoon]

Uh no, considering you think level 10-40's are high armor 500+ expertise classes. The first 50 he jumped solo wasn't at full health and came close to killing him.

 

Watch the entire video derp.

[Furyofwar]

Didn't realize geared meant full battlemasters Because those are the stats for exactly that. And I don't even think you can go 600 expertise even WITH full battlemasters.

 

MOST guys, come on, MOST GEARED PEOPLE ARE SUPER GEARED.

 

Full champion gear is 600 expertise. My BH alt is rank 58 Valor full Champion gear and just barely over 600 expertise.

[The_FeniX]

1. Yes, this is how a stealth class operates. I believe that if the stealth class either stunned OR did a big opener, the feeling of unfairness would reduce and the nerf cries would lessen. Imo its bad design/balance on Bioware's part.

I have to agree here. I never understood all the QQing about rogues in WoW. I would find this was completely due to my class/spec choices. My main was a Prot Paladin. So yea....

 

So, at level 85, I decide to take a break and see what all the fuss was about. I loaded up a new Rogue with heirloom everything (even the new back and helmet from guild levels). You can roll pretty much everyone up until level 40 when plate starts to hit the field. And even then, the rough fights are only those involving PCs with a shield and the odd Bear Tank. The prevalence of Blood DKs in their free-rare gear at in the 65+ brackets slows you down, but only so much. Two-shotting certain players in Warzones doesn't really stop until level 70+.

 

This made sense though as Bliz never cared about balancing low level brackets. At max level, things change so much. Your opener selection (Cheap Shot, Ambush, Garrote) is just as important as what you do afterward. You have to make conscious choices between control and damage, depending on how the fight is going. You will start using everything on your bar and poison selection is king depending on your target. I had the advantage of talking to a "Of the Alliance" Rogue guildy who played since original release. He gave me strats to kill pretty much every class. His short version on a geared tank? "Don't Bother." The "Long version" took him 15 minutes to explain and he was pissed I even asked. I killed quite a few tanks at 85, but he was right: it's really not worth the effort.

 

Trying to 1vs1 a geared tank (even in PvE gear) was an intimidating prospect. You had to shiv his enrage in regular intervals to keep his damage output low, make sure to keep recuperate up at all times, and know when (if even) to bother with expose armor or throw envenoms (provided pallies aren't cleansing them all).

 

In SWTOR? Even after 1.1, an OP can take 50% of my Guardian tank's HP before I can do anything (at max level with my tankadin, I never had a rogue take more than 20-30% if he was dumb enough to ambush/eviscerate). My only option is to know he's coming and pop Saber Ward (if it's not on CD). If I'm caught without my Resolute, it's basically game over. On another note, I've had Operatives literally stand in front of me spamming their knife attacks, each hitting for 2.5k minimum. That may not sound like much, but I crit for like 1.5-1.7k (and don't crit that much, many of my hits are around the 1k mark). I have 18k HP buffed and yes, crappy tank stats in PvP are a discussion for another thread.

 

So, no crits, he could down me in 7-8 GCDs without factoring in DoTs. It would take me 15-16 to down him. And I don't have the luxury of a recharging energy bar nor to kite and heal up. No melee class in WoW was downing my tank in less than 60 seconds (and usually couldn't down me at all) even if I just kept my PvE gear on.

 

tl;dr: like you said, if OPs had to choose between big hits or control, you'd see a complete retooling of the class and it would be unlikely any nerf is needed. You would also weed out the 4-button mashing OPs/Scoundrels as endgame kills would require actual work. From reading this thread (and all the other dontnerfmebro threads), the only counter to a good OP is to have psychic abilities, inhuman reaction times (which the ability delay on this game makes impossible anyway), or bringing more than 1 person to the fight. None of these are viable arguments as no class should be king of 1vs1.

[DimeStax]

I play a gunslinger and I feel that Op burst dps out of stealth is imbalanced in pvp, but not their overall damage output out of stealth. From the very beginning I have always felt it was necessary to nerf their out of stealth abilities by adding longer cooldowns to them or toning down the damage a bit, but also increasing their out of stealth dps. Playing an alternate archtype of the class I know that survival can be a real problem ever since resolve was implemented. Our class's defense basically resolves around our ability to CC since we don't have very many dps mitigating abilities or gear that are as strong as say the Sorcs bubble or the BH/Trooper's armor. This class is extremely vulnerable out of stealth and I don't feel that it should be that way. It shouldn't be an all or nothing class, meaning they shouldn't pop out of stealth and faceroll people but on the flipside get roflstomped once their caught out of stealth with no vanish which is the way it is now. Basically, the devs are only addressing one half of the problem: their fixing the damage out of stealth portion but not fixing the out of stealth part.

 

IMO Sorcs are far more imbalanced than Ops are in this state of the game, but they are OP in a much more subtle way because it is not a few abilities that make them OP, but the combination of all their abilities. Force speed makes them the most pvp mobile class in the game. Combine that with instant cast dots, instant damage on start-up channeled abilities which also snares on contact, do very nice damage, have a ranged stun, a polymorph type CC, bubbles that absorb a huge amount of all purpose damage, and the ability to self heal as many times as they want. Sorc's are the most effective class at getting into battle, doing a lot of damage, and then getting out of battle with force speed to heal themselves with their DoT's still ticking. Forcespeed and their Knockback abilities also make them one of the best class for objective pvp capping objectives and holding them. This class has absolutely everything. I don't see this class getting nerfed anytime soon though because although the comprehensive list of these abilities are unbalanced, they are still manageable and bearable for the most part (it's not like getting killed in 5 seconds without even a chance to play, at least you have a chance against them even if you don't get to kill them because they just end up running away).

 

I foresee that Sorcs will have their way in PvP in all aspects of the game for a long time since BW will be hesitant to nerf them. We will have to wait more expansions are released and other classes get abilties that catch up to them.

[Areoss]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Why3ti-dfdA&list=UU-zp15utO36E86N60p85P-A&index=1&feature=plcp

 

I win. Eat it.

 

Yes this is after the level 50 bracket.

 

This is after 1.1

 

IF you try to pick apart this then you guys really are scum and are trying to come up with any excuse to defend your class.

 

*****Rules of the challenge*****

 

1. They are dying IN A 3 SECOND STUN

 

2. They are dying BEFORE THEY HAVE A CHANCE TO REACT

 

3. Heavy armor classes with 500+ exp are getting dropped to sub 30% in an opener.

 

Additional notes:

It contains all 3 of these challenges met.

 

Not on the same person because that would be stupid. Dying in 3 seconds but also dropping 30% before chance to re act.

 

The posted video comes into line with the requirements of this challenge. If you start trying to pick this apart... it doesn't matter. The video meets the 3 requirements. The nerf is earned.

 

Now quit your ************.

Edited January 27, 2012 by Areoss

[Areoss]

If 1.1 doesnt make such a difference, why is it that hard to find a video showing it after 1.1?

 

So if it doesn't make any difference, why are you moaning at the fact that it was pre 1.1.

Stop posting pre 1.1 videos people, its been a week since 1.1 is there, why cant you find a video post 1.1 with an operatrive killing another equally geared lvl 50 in 3 secs?

See above

It doesnt help your point that you keep posting pre 1.1, because it means you cant find a post 1.1 one.

See above

Now, if 5k is still too big crit for you guys for our opener.

 

How much do you guys think it should crit?

I don't have a problem with the Crits you can pull off. I have a problem with the amount of crits you can pull off in chain succession with little to no problem of someone fighting back.

Because with the nerfs they are implementing they are going down to less than 3k and a two points, high tier talent will end in a 1.5 second stun COMPLETELY FILLING the resolve bar. And they are nerfing the sustained damage (which was already crap) with the acid blade nerf.

 

Does that really make sense to you?

 

Yeah it does actually. It means you wont be able to crit in rapid succession as you do currently... and you wont be able to pin us in 1 place for a long time.

 

Meaning burst is going to be destroyed. You'll have to gain some skill and learn to kill someone outside of the opener, and stop 'S'-Keying like a boss outside of stealth when ***** hits the fan

Edited January 27, 2012 by Areoss

[Lushbits]

and you wont be able to pin us in 1 place for a long time.

 

No one will be speccing the stun, so it won't be any stun at all. They render the talent useless with the proposed nerf.

 

But... IF they actually make it so that the stun DOESN'T fill the resolve bar up completely (which it shouldn't) then you will be back here within days crying even more, cuz we can then slam you with Debilitate right after (and what is that? 5 seconds?) meaning 1,5+5 seconds of not moving vs. the previous 3 seconds..

 

Edit: Which, in my eyes, actually is a huge buff in a 1v1 scenario.

Edited January 27, 2012 by Lushbits

[Areoss]

No one will be speccing the stun, so it won't be any stun at all. They render the talent useless with the proposed nerf.

 

But... IF they actually make it so that the stun DOESN'T fill the resolve bar up completely (which it shouldn't) then you will be back here within days crying even more, cuz we can then slam you with Debilitate right after (and what is that? 5 seconds?) meaning 1,5+5 seconds of not moving vs. the previous 3 seconds..

 

Edit: Which, in my eyes, actually is a huge buff in a 1v1 scenario.

 

Currently it fills the resolve bar.

 

Im not QQing about being stunned for a long time. Just the amount of crits in the time of the stun. Which may be why they're reducing the burst damage too as well as the stun.

 

so it may not fill the resolve... it'll make the stun a bit longer but it wont have the amount of burst. So it kinda balances that way.

[kckkryptonite]

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=240500

[VertisReaper]

I still see no video proof of ops/scoundrels being OP. Only videos of ops killing people in questionable gear.

[BoDiE]

Has any of your crying removed your nerf or made bw nerf sorcs yet? No? Oh well, keep bumping this lolthread . You never know. Edited January 28, 2012 by BoDiE

[Lhaim]

bump

 

i dont play a op/sc (trooper vr57) but i dont get dropped in a stun either

[Celusios]

You're an idiot who plays (OP)erative clearly and finds your class perfectly balanced. You are retarded in this case. Your class can heal, range, and MELEE better than ANY lightsaber user. How the hell does it make sense that you all can stun 500 + exp people and bring them down to 30% in your OPENER alone. From there you have to do basic **** and you've won.

 

Glad this OP piece of scrub class got nerfed.

[BoDiE]

You're an idiot who plays (OP)erative clearly and finds your class perfectly balanced. You are retarded in this case. Your class can heal, range, and MELEE better than ANY lightsaber user. How the hell does it make sense that you all can stun 500 + exp people and bring them down to 30% in your OPENER alone. From there you have to do basic **** and you've won.

 

Glad this OP piece of scrub class got nerfed.

 

The slight adjustment has only nerfed awful players. Not good ones. It is therefore an unfair nerf because it only affects scrubs who need all the help they can get.

[Lord_Karsk]

Stims is not going away

[Celusios]

The slight adjustment has only nerfed awful players. Not good ones. It is therefore an unfair nerf because it only affects scrubs who need all the help they can get.

 

Which I have no problem with. I'd rather be beaten by a skilled player than someone utilizing an OP class. To be honest though, I would of enjoyed a Sorcerer nerf over Operative. That is without argument the most OP class in the game.

[Ryotknife]

sorry op, the burden of proof is on you, not us, now that bioware has slated ops to be nerfed. BW, hopefully, has their own data that they are using.

 

i personally, as a pt, have been killed in seconds by an op a few levels below me before i even had a chance to react. this happens (almost) everytime, not just one in a million. i think the longest battle i had against an op was 15 seconds and that is why i ambushed him and popped all of my cds.

 

so unless everytime an op killed me there were actually two of them with the same name, the same exact gear, standing on top of one another in EXACTLY the same position (in which case, well played), then im afraid you are fighting a losing battle.

 

ops needed to be nerfed, their damage was beyond ridiculous. also, people are not going to take an enormous amount of time compiling a video just to satisfy you. personally i would prefer combat logs or some other data set.

Edited January 28, 2012 by Ryotknife

[Talkative]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Why3ti-dfdA&list=UU-zp15utO36E86N60p85P-A&index=1&feature=plcp

 

I win. Eat it.

 

Yes this is after the level 50 bracket.

 

This is after 1.1

 

IF you try to pick apart this then you guys really are scum and are trying to come up with any excuse to defend your class.

 

*****Rules of the challenge*****

 

1. They are dying IN A 3 SECOND STUN

 

2. They are dying BEFORE THEY HAVE A CHANCE TO REACT

 

3. Heavy armor classes with 500+ exp are getting dropped to sub 30% in an opener.

 

Additional notes:

It contains all 3 of these challenges met.

 

Not on the same person because that would be stupid. Dying in 3 seconds but also dropping 30% before chance to re act.

 

The posted video comes into line with the requirements of this challenge. If you start trying to pick this apart... it doesn't matter. The video meets the 3 requirements. The nerf is earned.

 

Now quit your ************.

Something is odd about the editing or that Op is re-stealthing in 5 seconds when the cooldown is...oh, do you not know? So when you complain about how often you get nailed with an opener what you really meant is "please instruct me how to Douglas."

 

Interesting.

[HanSollo]

Ops deserved their nerf. Get over it.

 

If your really this upset about the nerf just stalk GS/Sniper i promise we will die just as fast as we did before and you will still take no dmg and there will be no one around to hurt you cause we have to sit in the back or we get melted

 

PS: this is what you sound like.

 

NO NO **** NO **** YOU I SHOULD BE ABLE TO KILL ANY CLASS I FEEL LIKE EVERY 15secs IN PVP *** IS WRONG WITH YOU. SKILL *** IS THAT YOU RETARD YOU SHOULDA ROLLED A ROUGE CLASSE DIP **** I WANT 8k CRITS EVERY HIT WHY DID YOU TAKE IT FROM ME *********** ******ES YOU ARE JUST MAD CUSE I PWNZER YOU WITH MY MAD 3 ABILITY SKILLS *********** NABS L2P *** WHY NOT GET MOAR HP *********** NABS **** (post more videos of Ops/Scoundrals testing it on Vanguards/Powertechs, *********** tanks, which still got melted when you stacked buffs) SO WHAT IF HES A TANK THATS BS I SHOULD KILL THEM IN WHAT 5 HITS MAYBE!?!??!?!?!?!??!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!? WHY SHOULD I HAVE TO TRY IN AND OUT IS WHAT MY CLASS DOES JUST DOT ME ( yes in the 3 secs your visiable i have to target you get in range and cast good plan oh PURGE gg) *** WHY AM I GETTING NERFED YOU SHOULD NERF ALL OTHER CLASSES NOT MINE THIS IS BS GOD DAMN ******E NABS THAT USE SKILL AND GET MAD CAUSE I MELT NON TANK CLASSES IN 3 SECS AND VANISH ( and you can do it way more often then the 2 min cd cc breaker that everyone has that is the problem) **** YOU THATS BS GOD DAMN IT WHY CANT I JUST 3 SHOT SOME ONE AND THEN VANISH AND IF I CANT SELF HEAL AND LoS TILL I CAN *** WHERE IS MY GOD MODE CLASS THIS IS BS IM REROLLING AS COMMANDO/MERC HERE COMES THE SPAM (actully sorc/sage is better they have better heals and the shield they have is on a stupidly low cd so they essently have 8k more hp then you can see on thier bar still have self heals and can just run if **** gets too sticky) *** WELL THEN IM GONNA ROLL SORC/SAGE AND PWN FACE *********** KIDS

[TheRealMonkus]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Why3t...1&feature=plcp

FTW!