Sincere plee to consider the side-effects the Op nerf will have

[JediMasterShake]

Meh. Dunno. Seemed OP to me. Edited January 25, 2012 by JediMasterShake

[Blarpped]

Hidden Strike completely fills the resolve bar. We can't use Flash Bang or Debilitate after we hit you. I think that takes out a little of your arguement, wouldn't you agree?

 

Sevor Tendon has a 10m range. If you're outside of it, we can't get to you to use it. So while it's helpful, it's very limited.

 

Evasion, while helpful, is only 4seconds. It's basically an "Oh s***" ability that usually results in your death afterwards.

 

An Operative healing in combat (weak heals, I might add) is not doing any damage to you and is taking damage. Why are you complaining?

 

Sap completely fills the resolve bar. If we sap you, we can't stun you.

 

There is no AoE Group Vanish. You have to be out of combat for Infiltrate to work. Really? If you're gonna make up facts, please, go away.

 

Concealement operatives can't use an in-combat rez.

 

Really bud, I think you're making up some imaginary class that can do all that, because I just don't see it. Nice try though.

 

If we're talking about 1v1 then you would be right, but since the majority of the PVP in this game is in the form of TEAM PLAY. Something like an AOE 8 second CC is invaluable.

 

Sever Tendon is a great 10m peel. You're melee, sorry you can't apply snares/immobilizes at 30m, but what did you expect when you rolled a melee stealther?

 

Evasion can save you from burst, and on top of that it removes DOTs. It also happens to be on a low CD.

 

You CAN heal in a pinch. I didn't say to stand there and facetank while you try and heal yourself. You can crossheal a healer who can't get a peel in time. You can spotheal DPS.

 

If you sap someone at an objective and they don't have a CC break, then you just capped that objective. Same goes for the AOE CC.

 

Sorry. There is an AOE group stealth. I'm sure it has uses.

 

Ever Op/Scounderl gets an in-combat rez. It has nothing to do with your spec.

 

 

I never said that the nerf wasn't harsh; it may end up being an overnerf, but saying that the only things OP's have going for them is huge burst is patently wrong.

[OsirisZoran]

One on-demand stun - our only stun that everyone just trinkets out of

One proc stun - oooooh a 1.5 second stun the whole duration of the global cooldown, that's really worth spending 27 points in a skill tree to get! As if anyone will spend the points to get this.

An immobilize tied to a snare - to slow people down so we can do our mediocre damage to them for a few seconds?

AOE 8 second CC - that is useless because it breaks on damage

Evasion - doesn't work in pvp at all because of the damage types

Absorbs - pathetic

A FREE high-damage positional attack - huh?

Two heals - yay a 3 second cast heal for 1200 hp when you're being hit by sorcs insta-casts for 2k+ dmg

A 100% uptime small HOT - if we go healing spec we get a pathetic hot, great!

Sap - that can only be used in stealth against targets not in combat, reallly really useful, not

Vanish - ok this is our 1 decent ability i grant you this 1

AOE group Vanish - wrong it's aoe group stealth not vanish, and it's pretty much usless because the range of it is tiny and your group never stays close enough.

in-combat res - have you ever seen anyone ever use this in a warzone? you can click an insta spawn why bother with a massive cast rez that gives you no hp?

DOT removal - lol, because dots do so much damage

 

omg people trinket out of my stun also! must be useless!

[Mekrath]

I'll say straight up that I, as a level 50 Operative,

 

Nothing personal, but anything you say after this is automatically biased.

[Blarpped]

FYI: The opener doesn't fill the resolve bar anymore.

[Vashiel]

If we're talking about 1v1 then you would be right, but since the majority of the PVP in this game is in the form of TEAM PLAY. Something like an AOE 8 second CC is invaluable.

 

Sever Tendon is a great 10m peel. You're melee, sorry you can't apply snares/immobilizes at 30m, but what did you expect when you rolled a melee stealther?

 

Evasion can save you from burst, and on top of that it removes DOTs. It also happens to be on a low CD.

 

You CAN heal in a pinch. I didn't say to stand there and facetank while you try and heal yourself. You can crossheal a healer who can't get a peel in time. You can spotheal DPS.

 

If you sap someone at an objective and they don't have a CC break, then you just capped that objective. Same goes for the AOE CC.

 

Sorry. There is an AOE group stealth. I'm sure it has uses.

 

Ever Op/Scounderl gets an in-combat rez. It has nothing to do with your spec.

 

 

I never said that the nerf wasn't harsh; it may end up being an overnerf, but saying that the only things OP's have going for them is huge burst is patently wrong.

 

I don't think the class or spec sucks, don't get me wrong. And not having much utility isn't the same as having useful abilities. Let's face it, Sorcerers bring much more to the table than an Operative. They have an 8s stun, a gap closer, good heals, a rez, a bubble, good damage, and strong AoE.

 

I didn't say Sevor Tendon needed a range buff. I like it the way it is and find it amazingly useful when timed properly.

 

As was said earlier, Evasion doesn't work properly. A lot of damage isn't negated and the short time frame only means 2 attacks will miss you.

 

Sure, we can spot a heal, but again, we're not putting out any damage during this time so I don't see what it has to do with the nerf.

 

Your scenario with Sap a "what if" situation. Chances are someone standing by themself at an objective has their break up. Also, it can only be used out-of-combat and from in stealth. While it's a good ability, it's very situational.

 

And our AoE Group Stealth requires EVERYONE to be out of combat and stay within very close range. Name a use for it in PvP.

[lokivoid]

if you dont like it specc into Medicine, those burst abilities are taking a hit for a reason accept it and move on.

[Vashiel]

if you dont like it specc into Medicine, those burst abilities are taking a hit for a reason accept it and move on.

 

It's post like these that infuriate me the most. You state nothing and bring nothing to the table to talk about. I shouldn't have to spec Medicine. I like Concealement and it's why I rolled the class in the first place. Accepting un-needed and over-nerfed matieral is something you wouldn't stand for either if it was pointed at your class, and you know it.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Vashiel

[OsirisZoran]

I don't think the class or spec sucks, don't get me wrong. And not having much utility isn't the same as having useful abilities. Let's face it, Sorcerers bring much more to the table than an Operative. They have an 8s stun, a gap closer, good heals, a rez, a bubble, good damage, and strong AoE.

 

I didn't say Sevor Tendon needed a range buff. I like it the way it is and find it amazingly useful when timed properly.

 

As was said earlier, Evasion doesn't work properly. A lot of damage isn't negated and the short time frame only means 2 attacks will miss you.

 

Sure, we can spot a heal, but again, we're not putting out any damage during this time so I don't see what it has to do with the nerf.

 

Your scenario with Sap a "what if" situation. Chances are someone standing by themself at an objective has their break up. Also, it can only be used out-of-combat and from in stealth. While it's a good ability, it's very situational.

 

And our AoE Group Stealth requires EVERYONE to be out of combat and stay within very close range. Name a use for it in PvP.

 

our stun is 4 seconds. what were you saying about knowing a class?

[OsirisZoran]

I don't think the class or spec sucks, don't get me wrong. And not having much utility isn't the same as having useful abilities. Let's face it, Sorcerers bring much more to the table than an Operative. They have an 8s stun, a gap closer, good heals, a rez, a bubble, good damage, and strong AoE.

 

I didn't say Sevor Tendon needed a range buff. I like it the way it is and find it amazingly useful when timed properly.

 

As was said earlier, Evasion doesn't work properly. A lot of damage isn't negated and the short time frame only means 2 attacks will miss you.

 

Sure, we can spot a heal, but again, we're not putting out any damage during this time so I don't see what it has to do with the nerf.

 

Your scenario with Sap a "what if" situation. Chances are someone standing by themself at an objective has their break up. Also, it can only be used out-of-combat and from in stealth. While it's a good ability, it's very situational.

 

And our AoE Group Stealth requires EVERYONE to be out of combat and stay within very close range. Name a use for it in PvP.

 

a use for group stealth in pvp? How about on voidstar when you have 2 operatives stealth to the door, one starts to plant bomb while the other hits group stealth and allows the othre operative planting bomb to be stealthed.

[OsirisZoran]

It's post like these that infuriate me the most. You state nothing and bring nothing to the table to talk about. I shouldn't have to spec Medicine. I like Concealement and it's why I rolled the class in the first place. Accepting un-needed and over-nerfed matieral is something you wouldn't stand for either if it was pointed at your class, and you know it.

 

Most sorcerers that are difficult to kill are not specced 0/20/21. JUST AN FYI which is our damage spec. They're either specced full healing or a hybrid (like me).

 

Learn 2 adjust your strat. I become hard to kill but lose a lot of my burst but still maintain decent damage. Perhaps its time for Ops to do the same???

[Vashiel]

a use for group stealth in pvp? How about on voidstar when you have 2 operatives stealth to the door, one starts to plant bomb while the other hits group stealth and allows the othre operative planting bomb to be stealthed.

 

That's going to get nerfed and honestly should, imo. So you found one abused use for it in one WZ under one condition. Doesn't exactly warrant any nerf to our damage...

 

And please tell me how an Operative can become hard to kill at the cost of our damage. Please, find me a way to become as hard to kill as a Sorcerer. Go on. I'll wait.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Vashiel

[OsirisZoran]

That's going to get nerfed and honestly should, imo. So you found one abused use for it in one WZ under one condition. Doesn't exactly warrant any nerf to our damage...

 

You're right it was your classes ability to kill just about any other class in its opening volley of abilities without them being able to really defend against it. Welcome back to the rest of the other classes who cant kill someone in under 5 seconds and will have to work for your kills.

 

Honestly the changes are great because there was a lot of bad OP players that bragged about how good they were in pvp because they could 3-4 shot people. Now they'll be rerolling since they have to work for their kills but the jokes on them because every other class has to work for their kills. NO MORE FREE RIDE FOR OPS/SCOUNDRELS

[Haeso]

20% armor pen is only a few % less damage total if that. It's not ignoring 20% damage reduction, it's ignoring 20% of the armor that makes the damage reduction percent, which is pretty low to begin with.

[Ellyll]

maybe it was due to ops having crits that are 2-3x higher than any other class and killing people before they stood up from the knockdown?

 

Your dmg will still be good and still get crits over 5k. whats the problem? no more 7-8k crits? too bad.

 

^^ This, but I think you need to add something back in to help the balance. You can't just take the absurd nuke away from a class that really only has an absurd nuke and expect everything to work out.

 

Personally, I think they should have more armor/heal debuffs and damage multiplier debuffs so that it seams like they aren't doing as much, but they are really leaving their targets open for the rest of the group.

 

Maybe also a better instant, mobile heal that is on a cd so it can be useful in tense situations, but can't be spammed.

 

Just my 2 cents...

[Vashiel]

You're right it was your classes ability to kill just about any other class in its opening volley of abilities without them being able to really defend against it. Welcome back to the rest of the other classes who cant kill someone in under 5 seconds and will have to work for your kills.

 

Honestly the changes are great because there was a lot of bad OP players that bragged about how good they were in pvp because they could 3-4 shot people. Now they'll be rerolling since they have to work for their kills but the jokes on them because every other class has to work for their kills. NO MORE FREE RIDE FOR OPS/SCOUNDRELS

 

And we're back to square one. You can't counter any of my points so you resort to the safe mode of our damage being too high.

 

Look, I don't care what it is you are choosing to believe, but an Operative can't kill anyone in under 5 seconds. An operative can't take someone from full health to zero in under 5 seconds. Once Jarring Strike is over and an Operative has to fight toe-to-toe with any other class, it's a completely different story for the Operative. We don't have any sustained DPS. This is fact you can't deny. If we lack sustained DPS and have little survivability, what exactly are we going to be able to do when that burst is nerfed? Will you promise me that when the patch goes live as is and Operative damage is so low we move to the bottom of the food chain that you'll personally apologize and tell me how right I was? Can you do that for me?

[Gorra-Syn]

This is all proof that BW has no idea what they are doing.....

 

Sorc/Sage do mass damage and it's ranged.. and dont forget the bubble.

Trooper hits like a truck,wears heavy armor, and it feels like every shot is some kind of cc that slows or roots you. Should we talk about the BH's and "tracer missle, tracer missle"??And don't even get me started on a healer that takes 2 or 3 people to kill because they can self heal for so much. Hey I know BW.. lets nerf the LEAST played class in the game.. these people need to stick to rpg's and leave the mmo's to people that know what they are doing.

[Niaoru]

a use for group stealth in pvp? How about on voidstar when you have 2 operatives stealth to the door, one starts to plant bomb while the other hits group stealth and allows the othre operative planting bomb to be stealthed.

 

That was fixed for Smugglers, but not Operatives. Thanks Bioware, obviously you don't favor the Empire or anything.

[OsirisZoran]

And we're back to square one. You can't counter any of my points so you resort to the safe mode of our damage being too high.

 

Look, I don't care what it is you are choosing to believe, but an Operative can't kill anyone in under 5 seconds. An operative can't take someone from full health to zero in under 5 seconds. Once Jarring Strike is over and an Operative has to fight toe-to-toe with any other class, it's a completely different story for the Operative. We don't have any sustained DPS. This is fact you can't deny. If we lack sustained DPS and have little survivability, what exactly are we going to be able to do when that burst is nerfed? Will you promise me that when the patch goes live as is and Operative damage is so low we move to the bottom of the food chain that you'll personally apologize and tell me how right I was? Can you do that for me?

 

i think Operatives need to learn to play better. I think yall have gotten to accustomed to killing people easily that you've forgotten your tactics. Perhaps yall need to respec into medicine more to be more effective as a support class in pvp (like i did).

 

FYI everyone who cruises solo in pugs can easily get face rolled or do extremely well depending on the opponent makeup. I have been flat out domainted rolling solo in pugs against 4man premades and such.

 

What you need is a tank to put guard on you and for you to spec into medicine some to keep them alive.

 

CHANGE YOUR STRATS CAUSE DAYS OF EASY KILLS IS OVER. DO WORK!

[OsirisZoran]

This is all proof that BW has no idea what they are doing.....

 

Sorc/Sage do mass damage and it's ranged.. and dont forget the bubble.

Trooper hits like a truck,wears heavy armor, and it feels like every shot is some kind of cc that slows or roots you. Should we talk about the BH's and "tracer missle, tracer missle"??And don't even get me started on a healer that takes 2 or 3 people to kill because they can self heal for so much. Hey I know BW.. lets nerf the LEAST played class in the game.. these people need to stick to rpg's and leave the mmo's to people that know what they are doing.

 

sorc/sage do not do massive damage unless you just let them free cast on you all day (which any class can do if you let them) and you can interupt healers easily. Learn 2 play.

[Niaoru]

This is all proof that BW has no idea what they are doing.....

 

Sorc/Sage do mass damage and it's ranged.. and dont forget the bubble.

Trooper hits like a truck,wears heavy armor, and it feels like every shot is some kind of cc that slows or roots you. Should we talk about the BH's and "tracer missle, tracer missle"??And don't even get me started on a healer that takes 2 or 3 people to kill because they can self heal for so much. Hey I know BW.. lets nerf the LEAST played class in the game.. these people need to stick to rpg's and leave the mmo's to people that know what they are doing.

 

They kinda know what they are doing. Information about the nerf was released shortly after all the Ilum QQ. It's smart for them to nerf the least played class that all the mid level characters(the majority of the subscribers) complained about, because it made them a little less angry about the state of the game.

[Gorra-Syn]

sorc/sage do not do massive damage unless you just let them free cast on you all day (which any class can do if you let them) and you can interupt healers easily. Learn 2 play.

 

Hmm well we know what YOU play.. bend over cause your next.

[Vashiel]

i think Operatives need to learn to play better. I think yall have gotten to accustomed to killing people easily that you've forgotten your tactics. Perhaps yall need to respec into medicine more to be more effective as a support class in pvp (like i did).

 

FYI everyone who cruises solo in pugs can easily get face rolled or do extremely well depending on the opponent makeup. I have been flat out domainted rolling solo in pugs against 4man premades and such.

 

What you need is a tank to put guard on you and for you to spec into medicine some to keep them alive.

 

CHANGE YOUR STRATS CAUSE DAYS OF EASY KILLS IS OVER. DO WORK!

 

So you're saying that in order for Operatives to succeed in PvP, they MUST spec Healing? That completely goes against what BW wants for this game. Please, leave this conversation. You're clearly a biased and inexperienced player who doesn't know what they're talking about.

 

A class shouldn't be pidgeon-holed in to one spec because it's alright to nerf the other in to oblivion.

[Newsinz]

Your not the only one heh Scoundrels got the nerf bat too. Edited January 25, 2012 by Newsinz

[Vashiel]

Your not the only one heh Scoundrels got the neft bat too.

 

No, I know y'all did too, bud. It's just easier to type Ops and since I'm playing an Operative sometimes I forget about my Scoundrel brothers.