This is a joke! Cybertech

[_Flin_]

The lvl 50 quest dont help the Tanks like me who R only lvl 43 im suck with lvl 33 tank Mods that i pulled out of some tank helmets that i luckly got from from daily quest but that was 10 lvls ago and i've not found any tank armor at my lvl sents then. I took cybertech because 4 a Tank having Great armor is a must, it really mean life or death pls Fix.

 

Cybertech does not do tank modifications and armorings, except for versions with higher endurance instead of aim.

 

But...

- Armorings have primary stats, so no "tank" items. Exception is the expertise on the PvP armorings.

- Modifications have small secondary stats, although the defense and absorption values do add up to quite something.

 

Currently Cybertech isn't really where you decide "tank or no tank".

You add most of the secondary stats with enhancements and augments.

 

If you want to have modifications that add tank stats, take a look at the commendation vendors from the planets. Cybertech doesn't offer them.

[rocdogg]

TOR isn't a game for people dreaming of being a renowned blacksmith in their second life, it's a theme park MMO for the general public.

 

Thus there needs to be incentives.

 

Without BoP, or exclusive items in general, attached to crafting there's no point leveling a crafting profession. It'd be far easier, and more efficient, to just farm credits.

 

I agree. In the build-up to launch, BioWare was talking about crafting being worthwhile in the long run, master-crafters being sought out, etc, but nothing like that, or a suggestion of it are in the game. There would have to be some kind of epic raid-centred quest chains à la Thunderfury, Blessed Blade of the Windseeker for anything like that even to be possible in the context of SWTOR's crafting system where anyone can end up discovering everything, most of it useless, and multiple times if they keep at it long enough.

 

The reusable biochem items are actually great, and the type of item that should be available. The problem is that the top items from other crafts weren't as useful to the crafter, nor did they make the investment in leveling a craft worthwhile.

[JerokTalram]

Sadly only reason healers are more rare then tanks is simply cause the UI, alot of todays healers are use to addon's doing the work for them so they can just click a button here or shift click another button there to do their job

 

Yeah, sucks because my DPS Sage always ends up healing. The fights usually go like this I start out providing lots of damage. Someone takes a lot of damage and I'm healing for the rest of the fight.

 

Yeah it's weird that Artice can only make Mighty and Resolve Hilts. Nothing for Tanks. With that said is it really that bad to use a Mighty. Guardians are complaining they don't do enough damage so some strength would help and it still has endurance on it.

[_Flin_]

Sadly only reason healers are more rare then tanks is simply cause the UI, alot of todays healers are use to addon's doing the work for them so they can just click a button here or shift click another button there to do their job

 

Healers and Tanks are rare because their gameplay usually stinks.

DDs can position themselves, see the fight, have to handle adds, and "play the game" more than healers and tanks. A Healer on the other hand usually only looks at the health bars and checks for debuffs. The basic function is always the same.

The Tank usually sees a big toe in front of him and does his rotation. Highlight of the day is catching some adds and interrupting spells.

 

Plus Healing and Tanking brings more responsibility and more blame when not executed properly.

[Taliknor]

Dude. At the moment, armormech mastercrafts should sell near 1.2million a piece so the loss of mats is minimal. (of course I think I hit a slump on the RE'ing side of things, it's probably only 600k or so for the cheap stuff.)

[Pherdnut]

At least you can make mods. My 400 Armortech can't even make the armor plates to put in the _armor_ she makes.

 

Why would you rely on oranges if you're an armortech?

[Ragearo]

REMOVE BIND ON PICKUP FROM GAME

 

 

Let the community have an economy.

 

I agree with this. Coming from a game where getting a craft max actually meant something. By the time I left, the crafting system had all but been replaced by another one, but for the majority of the game getting a craft to max level took an insane amount of currency and time, and the items crafted actually did wonders for almost every class - and could be sold thus making a thriving economy.

 

I hate to see how simple it is to get crafting maxed in this game, and the BoP items are just silly. In fact, I find binding to be a rather lame concept in the long run. In fact, coming from a game where most items used in leveling don't come from NPC's but come from crafts that were likely crafted years ago and resold time after time I think it's better in the long-run to have crafted items play a bigger role in the game rather than have an enormous abundance of items that you can get from any quest or any npc hurts the economy and makes leveling fairly easymode.

 

I don't know about other games, but I just find this concept of if you just level and complete quests while you do so you end up rich by lvl 50 to be quite a strange design choice. This coupled with the fact that going to the fleet to get to the GTN is somewhat of a total pain since it's usually 4 loading screens. Crafting should be a little more difficult to max, and more profitable for those that craft exceptional items. I don't think this is currently possible since crafted items are more of a slight boost than anything else, and all replaceable none to soon - Cybertech gets new armoring schematics every 2 levels which seems a bit overkill, and makes purple quality items somewhat silly to use until maybe level 40 or so. The level seperation of earrings seems a bit better as you'll use them a little longer.

 

Last note: I despise the concept of the best gear being gotten from PvP - I've always liked the method I had first which was simply you had a crafted item (that could be slightly better than normal if you had a rare critical craft) that cost quite a bit of currency to make, which is then made useable by performing some feat or quest. I'm not saying they should do that here (though they are to a degree in that you get the schematics by doing something rather grand). All I'm saying is I feel as though PvP rewards should not be the best gear for everything and it's quite sad that crafted equipment is generally useless from what I gather. Just seems odd that the whole game you can level up through the storyline getting gear from crafts/GTN/commendations/vendors, then all of a sudden none of those sources are where you should get gear from and now it's PvP.

 

/endrant

[ArmoredJuneBug]

Coming from a game where getting a craft max actually meant something.

Which makes you not only wrong, but also the exclusive minority.

 

Sorry to put it harshly but it needs to be said.

 

Without BoP items, or at least some form of exclusive bonuses, there's no incentive for the vast majority of player to level a crafting skill. And BioWare most assuredly wants everyone to do that, as it requires more playtime as well as acting as a huge credit sink to (somewhat) balance the inflation.

 

You may not like it, I rarely do myself after all, but it's all about whatever gives the most pluses.

 

Without incentives for crafting it's simply a waste of time and credits, as farming the latter to pay the oddballs who actually bothered with it for gear is a much better investment.

 

Crafting needs to be improved in many ways but removing BoP items goes contrary to making crafting desirable. If anything there needs to be more and better BoP items.

 

Ideally not just at level 50 either.

[justadude]

Which makes you not only wrong, but also the exclusive minority.

 

Sorry to put it harshly but it needs to be said.

 

Without BoP items, or at least some form of exclusive bonuses, there's no incentive for the vast majority of player to level a crafting skill. And BioWare most assuredly wants everyone to do that, as it requires more playtime as well as acting as a huge credit sink to (somewhat) balance the inflation.

 

You may not like it, I rarely do myself after all, but it's all about whatever gives the most pluses.

 

Without incentives for crafting it's simply a waste of time and credits, as farming the latter to pay the oddballs who actually bothered with it for gear is a much better investment.

 

Crafting needs to be improved in many ways but removing BoP items goes contrary to making crafting desirable. If anything there needs to be more and better BoP items.

 

Ideally not just at level 50 either.

 

How do more and better BoP drops generate incentive to craft? I would really like to know your logic on this one?

 

Without BoP I have the option to sell the items I loot in game.

 

If crafters can make the best mods in game, people who buy certain loot drops will purchase mods from crafters, giving them incentive to craft, since there is money to be made.

 

The fact that the speeders that a Cybertech can craft are BoP greatly diminishes the desire to craft.

[Ragearo]

Without BoP items, or at least some form of exclusive bonuses, there's no incentive for the vast majority of player to level a crafting skill. And BioWare most assuredly wants everyone to do that, as it requires more playtime as well as acting as a huge credit sink to (somewhat) balance the inflation.

 

The BoP items actually restrict the economy. I'm fine with binding, but BoP takes crafting out of the economy for the levels it should be most rewarding and useful. Don't be so sure BioWare wants everyone to craft - it takes up barely any extra time if you do it while leveling, whereas the people spending credits on the crafted products actually end up broke and need to spend extra time making those credits back. All-in-all, leveling a craft to 400 does not take much time at all, so I don't see this BoP adding much playtime onto players for BioWare.

 

That being said, I think the system is fine in terms of the time it takes to get purple quality schematics is essentially the difference between a dedicated crafter and a casual crafter. Most players I'm sure will end up at least as casual crafters which you may be right, is exactly what BioWare is looking for. I believe they're also looking for as they have been quoted as saying many times before, those crafters that are widely known as great or whatever they're going for, and I think the upgraded schematics is their avenue of doing that. The only problem is all of this is thrown out the window at/near max level and that "epic" crafter is now silly and the products that are the most beneficial cannot be shared (for profit) with other players.

 

Perhaps we'll just have to disagree - if you think to be able to use certain items from a certain craft you need to craft them yourself as it entices players to level a craft, and I think that particular mechanic is unnecessarily restrictive to the economy and craft/gear choices then we just simply have a difference of opinion.

 

PS: I don't appreciate being called wrong myself, so instead I'll just call you misinformed. Maybe I am in the minority for not coming from WoW but hey, I was playing a well developed MMO before it came out and don't consider everything blizzard did to be end all be all of MMO design.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Ragearo

[ArmoredJuneBug]

How do more and better BoP drops generate incentive to craft?

My bad, I would have thought that self-explanatory.

 

Anyway, the answer is because it requires the player to both level up the skill as well as gather or purchase the mats him/herself.

 

This means more time played and more credits sunk into the crafting skill itself.

 

Without BoP items there's no real point in leveling a crafting skill as you could just buy everything from those who did. Which would be a lot more efficient, as crafting represents a huge credit sink.

 

To put stuff into perspective, at level 34 I had Cybertech at 400, all schematics bought and a lot of prototype and artifact schematics re-engineered.

 

Had I skipped crafting and picked up another gathering skill I would not only have saved a couple of million credits in materials (rough estimate) but might made half as much again from my third gathering skill.

 

What could I have bought with those credits instead of made myself a couple of artifact armoring plates?

 

Pretty much anything.

 

This even applies regarding BoP vs. skill requirement items.

 

One of my alts has Biochem, before the patch I never re-engineered anything as there were artifact (reusable) items on the GTN. I could just build the cheapest premium items I could make, material-wise, to level up the skill and buy the items off the GTN. That saved me absolutely huge sums of credits.

 

As well as time, obviously.

 

That, in a nutshell, is why each crafting skill needs good exclusive (BoP) items.

If crafters can make the best mods in game, people who buy certain loot drops will purchase mods from crafters, giving them incentive to craft, since there is money to be made.

That's another issue entirely, and not what we're talking about here.

 

The only problem with that right now is that crafted items, as a general rule, sucks compared to drops, PvP gear and even vendor items and mission rewards.

 

I'm talking about exclusive, BiS-quality, items that only the crafter him/herself can use.

 

Which is needed to even bother leveling the crafting skill in the first place.

 

Credits in and off itself is only useful if you can buy something relevant with them, which you really can't at this point. Also, purely running dailies and good old farming generates far more credits than crafting can. Which makes crafting itself a losing proposition without the perks of exclusives.

The fact that the speeders that a Cybertech can craft are BoP greatly diminishes the desire to craft.

No.

 

The fact that they're just a re-skinned version of existing speeders that cost far more to make than the vendor-bought ones do diminishes the desire to level the skill.

 

To use this as an example of the above, if the Cybertech speeders were all awesome-looking more people would level up Cybertech just to make one for themselves.

 

If Armormech could do awesome-looking, and/or just plain good, BoP armor-pieces more people would level up Armormech to make those for themselves.

 

If Armstech...

 

You get the idea.

I'm fine with binding, but BoP takes crafting out of the economy for the levels it should be most rewarding and useful.

I'm not sure the idea I'm trying to get across has been successfully conveyed, if so I'm sorry about that.

 

I'm not talking about making every craftable item BoP!

 

I'm talking about providing a few exclusive items at various points, though definitely at the end-game, that are both awesome-looking and excellent stats-wise for each crafting skill.

 

Maybe Armormech/Synthweaving could make a set of relatively cheap (material-wise) BoP bracers, waists etc. that are best-in-slot.

 

Maybe Armstech could make some really awesome blasters/offhands that only they could use.

 

Maybe Artifice and Cybertech could make a limited amount (3, say) of really awesome item modifications that they could only equip themselves.

 

And so on...

 

The point here isn't that anything that isn't BoP should suck, I believe crafting in general should provide a lot more competitive items than it currently does, but rather that there should be good incentives to actually level a crafting skill in the first place.

Don't be so sure BioWare wants everyone to craft - it takes up barely any extra time if you do it while leveling, whereas the people spending credits on the crafted products actually end up broke and need to spend extra time making those credits back.

It's the other way around, crafting isn't anywhere near breaking even at any point in the game. Well, unless you're a Biochemist and using all your reusable items every cooldown I guess.

 

I'm quite sure BioWare wants everyone to craft, because ideally they'd want everyone to do everything. More playtime == more subscription money.

 

More player crafting == more credits taken out of the economy, thus reducing inflation.

Perhaps we'll just have to disagree..

Perhaps, but you'd still be wrong about this.

 

This isn't really a matter of opinion, it's basic game theory. Or human psychology if you prefer.

[pacoflyer]

BoP is usless for crafters you cannot sell it. Bind on Equip helps the economy it allows you to sell it then people equip it. How can something you cant sell on the GTN help crafting??

 

I am cybertech I can make purple 126 armor rating mods which is = tier 1 pvp and raid stuff why can't you tank with this?

[justadude]

 

...snip...

 

More player crafting == more credits taken out of the economy, thus reducing inflation.

 

This isn't really a matter of opinion, it's basic game theory. Or human psychology if you prefer.

 

First off, interesting post. Thank you for clarifying. A crafting system such as SWToR employs it, is a game mechanic to reduce credits. Incentive is given by having perk items and some usefulness while leveling.

 

This is not how I view crafting. You say that not being able to sell the speeders Cybertechs craft does not diminish the desire to level the skill. This is your opnion and nothing more. I can tell you for a fact that it does exactly that for me. This is why I am looking into gathering and selling on alts.

 

After leveling cybertech, I have realized that the only really useful crafting skill is biotech, due to the reusable items you can craft and not crafting at all, but simply gathering.

 

A large part of the motivation for leveling any crafting skill for me (and I am not alone) would be the ability to sell on an open market. To supply the community. I could pick what I want to do and buy from those that level other crafting skills.

[Ragearo]

EDIT 2: I really need a TLDR in here as this post is rather large: You seem to think BoP is the only way to create incentive to level crafting, and I'm just here to tell you - it's not. I've played games without BoP and plenty of people saw the incentive to craft - selling said items for profit. BoP is lazy and senseless.

 

 

 

some stuff

 

Not going to quote your post as it's quite massive (and I'm still catching up with all the posts since I went away for a while there) but wanted to address one of the central points I was reading in the first bit.

 

You seem to think that the time sunk into crafting to craft your own BoP items is reason for them to be BoP. The cost of such items sold by crafters if these items were not BoP, though, would be high enough to assuage the time sunk into being able to craft the item.

 

You seem to think binding is the only way to make crafted items take time to get, though I can attest to the fact that gathering the currency to purchase a deservedly high priced items (due to the cost/rarity of materials used in the recipe) can also be quite time consuming.

 

Then, in 3 weeks when a new item gets added you have to buy the new item while the crafters just have to hunt the schematic.

 

I honestly feel as though anyone who is only crafting because there's a BoP item they want, if put n the scenario where they can purchase the item off of the GTN instead, they may just do that. At the same time, everyone gets 3 crew skills and they're relatively low maintenance and easy to max out, so perhaps they have 3 gather skills and are supplying the materials for the craft. Alternatively, as you suggest they could abandon the crafting system altogether for some reason, and they would still have to spend the time to earn the currency to pay the crafter a reasonable sum of credits. If these items are truly a huge cost to the crafter, the price will reflect that.

 

All I'm saying, is your argument relies on the idea that if items were not BoP, then nobody would craft because they don't have to - you fail to see that the incentive becomes that you can sell these items to the people who chose to ignore the craft, and those ignoring the craft adopt the credit cost of the items they want that crafters have made. This all sets up a thriving economy. If I want to craft for profit rather than do missions for raw credits, that should be an option. If another player hates crafting, and wants to just do dailies and gain credits and then buy the items I craft, well that's basic microeconomics.

 

EDIT:

 

It's the other way around, crafting isn't anywhere near breaking even at any point in the game. Well, unless you're a Biochemist and using all your reusable items every cooldown I guess.

 

I'm quite sure BioWare wants everyone to craft, because ideally they'd want everyone to do everything. More playtime == more subscription money.

 

More player crafting == more credits taken out of the economy, thus reducing inflation.

 

I'm not talking about crafting as it is now, I'm explaining that if crafted BoP items were BoE, and people neglected crafting and instead purchased those items, your argument that BioWare would lose player playtime is not the case - this playtime is now instead of crafting, earning the credits to purchase said crafts.

 

Your failure to see that BoP is not the only driving mechanism to get people to craft does not mean I am wrong, it means you can't see why else anyone would craft. I'm telling you I've always enjoyed the concept in games and how it can effect the game economy, and I know many other MMO players who feel the same way. BoP is just a lazy mechanic that I believe actually results in a lower overall playtime per item - as the prices these items would be would require quite a bit of credits to purchase them from the crafters. I can attest to this as I've played MMO's that use this concept rather than the binding concept, and the crafting markets were quite cut-throat and lucrative.

 

You claim I am wrong because of basic Human Psychology, but that same concept is what causes crafters who are crafting to sell to others to get into it in the first place. Crafting should be a method of earning credits, rather than a method of obtaining gear only for yourself. It seems you do not like crafting (just a general feeling I get from the fact that you think if BoP were removed nobody would craft - obviously you find it boring). I enjoy crafting and prefer it as a method of currency generation. Others who do not feel the same way and maybe hate crafting, should be able to ignore it completely and generate currency in some other way.

 

I think the real problem is that they're essentially forcing everyone to craft to get something useful (whether its the synth/armortech waist/bracers or biochem stuff or whatever floats your boat). If instead the people who want to craft could craft for themselves and others (for profit) and those who don't want to craft could purchase the items they'd be missing out on, we'd all be happier about it and have a more well-developed economy. BoP is just a lazy way of forcing crafting down everyone's throats.

Edited January 25, 2012 by Ragearo

[TheHastyTadpole]

Just throwing in my $0.02.

 

The idea of "Craftables should be BoP so people need to dive into a crafting skill to get the item" is ugly and wrong to me. Thats pretty much saying if you're a tank, you have to take crafting skill X to get the best gear. Your crafting skills would be completely decided by your class. If you cannot sell what you make, you need to be able to use it right? or else whats the point. I dont ever want to be forced into a crafting profession based on my class since only I can use what I make.

 

The idea that "If crafting gear isn't BoP, everyone will just buy it and no one will craft" OK, who will they buy it from? If no one crafts, where would all this crafted gear on the GTN come from? If it's sellable, you have a seller and a buyer. Crafter and customer. Economy. Now will the prices be fair right out the gate? No. It takes time for an economy to balance out and hit its sweet spot, but saying that "everyone will farm credits and buy gear from the GTN if it isn't BoP" IS the goal, not the problem, simply because the gear on the GTN doesnt appear out of thin air, and if craftables are better than drops at equal level requirements, craftables become desirable, and the economy thrives on the crafters selling and the farmers buying.

 

High end crafted gear should be sellable, hard to make, expensive to buy, and better than stuff you can easilly get from vendors.

[Ragearo]

Just throwing in my $0.02.

 

The idea of "Craftables should be BoP so people need to dive into a crafting skill to get the item" is ugly and wrong to me. Thats pretty much saying if you're a tank, you have to take crafting skill X to get the best gear. Your crafting skills would be completely decided by your class. If you cannot sell what you make, you need to be able to use it right? or else whats the point. I dont ever want to be forced into a crafting profession based on my class since only I can use what I make.

 

The idea that "If crafting gear isn't BoP, everyone will just buy it and no one will craft" OK, who will they buy it from? If no one crafts, where would all this crafted gear on the GTN come from? If it's sellable, you have a seller and a buyer. Crafter and customer. Economy. Now will the prices be fair right out the gate? No. It takes time for an economy to balance out and hit its sweet spot, but saying that "everyone will farm credits and buy gear from the GTN if it isn't BoP" IS the goal, not the problem, simply because the gear on the GTN doesnt appear out of thin air, and if craftables are better than drops at equal level requirements, craftables become desirable, and the economy thrives on the crafters selling and the farmers buying.

 

High end crafted gear should be sellable, hard to make, expensive to buy, and better than stuff you can easilly get from vendors.

 

QFT, This is the point I've been trying to get across but it seems that if you don't like crafting it's impossible to comprehend. This is how the economy works - one person does something another doesn't want to do, so that other person pays them for the product - great success!

Edited January 25, 2012 by Ragearo

[ArmoredJuneBug]

How can something you cant sell on the GTN help crafting??

Because it makes people want to level crafting skills.

 

Making player crafters into glorified vendors does not.

A crafting system such as SWToR employs it, is a game mechanic to reduce credits.

No, it isn't. (Edit: Unless you meant in circulation, in which case we agree. Crafting materials and re-engineering keeps inflation somewhat in check.)

 

It may be a side effect in some cases (see: Biochem reusables) but that's not the point.

 

Indeed, if that were the point it fails hard - as it's much more lucrative to not bother with crafting.

 

Contrary to a real world economy there's no point to in-game credits other than to afford you better gear. That's it, you can't buy yourself creature comforts or anything else we might associate with wealth.

 

Let's say crafting actually made you money.

 

Let's say I just bought all the best crafted equipment in the game for my toon, which left me broke and all the crafters with... a gazillion credits.

 

So now I have the best gear in the game and have spent more time with progressive content. What do the crafters have?

 

A gazillion credits with no value what-so-ever.

Incentive is given by having perk items and some usefulness while leveling.

Right.

 

Without BoP items there are no such perks, as everyone would have them.

You say that not being able to sell the speeders Cybertechs craft does not diminish the desire to level the skill. This is your opnion and nothing more.

Actually, it's also true.

 

If everyone could buy a Cybertech speeder, or use the best Cybertech grenades or whatever, why level up Cybertech?

 

Why is everyone rolling Biochem?

 

Because it's the only crafting skill that offers a tangible, exclusive perk that requires players to actually have the skill in question.

 

You want artifact item modifications, ship/droid armor, weapons and what-have-you on top of that?

 

You can, all you need is credits - which you'll have in ample supply by not bothering with those other crafting skills.

You seem to think BoP is the only way to create incentive to level crafting, and I'm just here to tell you - it's not.

And you'd still be wrong.

 

I'm not saying that because I think that's great, or fun, or whatever.

 

I'm saying it to save you a lot of grief in the end, because that's how things are.

The cost of such items sold by crafters if these items were not BoP, though, would be high enough to assuage the time sunk into being able to craft the item.

No, not really.

 

Crafted items will never compete with operation/hardmode/PvP gear for all slots. It can't, because that would render a lot of other content moot.

 

Even in a worst-case scenario there'd be limited amounts of buyers and enough sellers to cause at least some competition, which means market prices.

 

As I've already mentioned, even in my mid-30s I would be up a couple million credits by not going the crafting route. Are you going to sell mid-30s artifact gear for 500k each?

 

That's not going to be much of a market.

 

Heck, even if you could... what would you do with the credits yourself?

 

It's all 'whatever gives the most pluses'.

 

You might personally be happy with the notion of being a crafter of epic renown, at least until you realize the general population doesn't care and is just taking advantage of the fact, but it's not going to work out for the game in the long run.

I honestly feel as though anyone who is only crafting because there's a BoP item they want, if put n the scenario where they can purchase the item off of the GTN instead, they may just do that.

And they would, which would be bad for the game overall.

Your failure to see that BoP is not the only driving mechanism to get people to craft does not mean I am wrong, it means you can't see why else anyone would craft.

No, I can absolutely see why a couple of people still would - regardless of how bad an idea it was.

 

That's not enough to make it a good implementation for the game as a whole, however.

 

Your, or indeed my, personal preferences aren't relevant here. This is something that relates to the player base in general. And at that level it's not sufficient without incentives as those I mentioned.

You claim I am wrong because of basic Human Psychology, but that same concept is what causes crafters who are crafting to sell to others to get into it in the first place. Crafting should be a method of earning credits, rather than a method of obtaining gear only for yourself. It seems you do not like crafting (just a general feeling I get from the fact that you think if BoP were removed nobody would craft - obviously you find it boring).

On the contrary, I'm a completionist - I want to do everything.

 

Obviously I'm fairly put off by the lackluster level of crafting in the game as a whole at this point.

 

My personal preferences are irrelevant though, as I mentioned it's about what's workable for the game population as a whole.

 

Contrary to real life credits isn't the hard cash of the game, gear is. Even if you could make bazillions of credits from crafting, what would you do with it?

 

Right - get better gear.

Thats pretty much saying if you're a tank, you have to take crafting skill X to get the best gear. Your crafting skills would be completely decided by your class.

No, that's not how it works.

 

Every crafting skill could very well provide exactly the same bonuses, only in different ways.

 

Though sure, making your Jedi/Sith an Armormech might not be the best choice - but then it never really were.

 

Unless it's an alt craft-bot, in which case it doesn't matter anyway - right?

Edited January 25, 2012 by ArmoredJuneBug
Ninja-edit

[justadude]

No, it isn't. (Edit: Unless you meant in circulation, in which case we agree. Crafting materials and re-engineering keeps inflation somewhat in check.)

 

We mean the same thing. The crafting game mechanic in SWToR has the primary function to be a credit sink (ie reducing credits in circulation). The items created are secondary.

 

 

 

...

 

Contrary to a real world economy there's no point to in-game credits other than to afford you better gear. That's it, you can't buy yourself creature comforts or anything else we might associate with wealth.

 

Let's say crafting actually made you money.

 

Let's say I just bought all the best crafted equipment in the game for my toon, which left me broke and all the crafters with... a gazillion credits.

 

So now I have the best gear in the game and have spent more time with progressive content. What do the crafters have?

 

A gazillion credits with no value what-so-ever.

 

Well, you could earn credits by farming rare drop items that do not BoP and sell those to rich crafters for gazillions... this leads to a community with .... integration through specialization.

 

 

Contrary to real life credits isn't the hard cash of the game, gear is. Even if you could make bazillions of credits from crafting, what would you do with it?

 

Right - get better gear.

 

 

You have certainly given me food for thought. It is sad to see that Bioware did so little to innovate in this area to move away from a gear based economy to a player based one.

[ArmoredJuneBug]

We mean the same thing. The crafting game mechanic in SWToR has the primary function to be a credit sink (ie reducing credits in circulation). The items created are secondary.

Sadly that's very much true, because right now what we can craft doesn't even stand up to vendor items and mission rewards!

 

Hopefully there's a remedy for that coming though, both for BoE and BoP items.

Well, you could earn credits by farming rare drop items that do not BoP and sell those to rich crafters for gazillions...

While that's certainly true the only thing you need to do to end up with enormous amounts of credits is... not crafting.

You have certainly given me food for thought.

Thank you.

 

It may come across as that on occasion but I'm not being disagreeable for the sake of it. I'm glad my point came across well this time around.

[Wheaty]

This is not how I view crafting. You say that not being able to sell the speeders Cybertechs craft does not diminish the desire to level the skill. This is your opnion and nothing more. I can tell you for a fact that it does exactly that for me. This is why I am looking into gathering and selling on alts.

 

 

Actually, it's also true.

 

If everyone could buy a Cybertech speeder, or use the best Cybertech grenades or whatever, why level up Cybertech?

 

Why is everyone rolling Biochem?

 

Because it's the only crafting skill that offers a tangible, exclusive perk that requires players to actually have the skill in question.

 

You want artifact item modifications, ship/droid armor, weapons and what-have-you on top of that?

 

You can, all you need is credits - which you'll have in ample supply by not bothering with those other crafting skills.

 

This is a self defeating argument (it's also slippery slope). Everyone could just purchase the cybertech speeders -> no one will bother actually being cybertech.

 

Who makes the speeders that everyone can purchase?

 

You seem to think BoP is the only way to create incentive to level crafting, and I'm just here to tell you - it's not.

 

And you'd still be wrong.

 

I'm not saying that because I think that's great, or fun, or whatever.

 

I'm saying it to save you a lot of grief in the end, because that's how things are.

 

This is a very short sighted opinion. I'll concede that you are correct concerning the way BioWare implemented crafting (following exactly in WoW's footsteps). However, to say that nothing else can provide incentive to craft is utterly ridiculous.

 

There have already been many popular MMO's that had other real, tangible incentives. In fact, the first game to introduce BoP items (WoW), did so because they failed to make crafting challenging enough. Too many high level crafters lead to too much product on the market, which drove prices below cost of materials. Crafting wasnt profitable, so another incentive was introduced.

 

Final Fantasy 11 - crafting was utlra time consuming, and ultra expensive. To the point that most players did prefer to make credits outside of crafting. But the dedicated crafter who got their skills to end game could make the best products in game. This worked because crafters were so rare that the market was never flooded with products. There were many more things that made crafting attractive...elemental bonuses, seasonal bonuses, moon phases, etc. Crafting was a mini-game which took time to master. Many enjoyed it for the challenges, and of course the money.

 

Star Wars Galaxies - Levelling crafting was not time consuming. But like ffxiv, this crafting system had its own unique set of challenges--material harvesting in "veins" which produced random quality materials. Only the most dedicated crafters took the time to get the best metals, and saved them, sometimes for months, to pair them with the best chemicals. Personal pride in crafting the absolute best equipment in the game, and again money, were driving factors here.

 

There are many ways to improve crafting outside of BoP. Which is what dude's point was, I think.

[Nessirin]

Hello

 

Sorry but I can make all mods except tank mods. All I can say is this is an absolute pathetic waste of time joke. I want to tank, fitted out orange gear with epic mods lvl 50 and now cannot use them bcus I am missing a mod for the mod slot. Not even correlia or voss sell lvl 50 tank mods.

 

Fix this now bioware because it is obviously an absolutely fail bug. If it isn't a bug I am majorly disappointed that you pick on the rarest role in the game. No wonder people never want to tank.

 

Rarest role in the game? My server has more tanks and healers than dps. Hah.

[Oompaw]

I see the crafting problem as only one piece of a broken puzzle. Let me explain.

 

Every MMO is ultimately about getting better gear. And most of the time there are 4 ways of getting that gear:

 

1) Quest Rewards

2) Defeating Difficult Mobs/Bosses

3) Crafting

4) PVP

 

The choice of how you obtain your gear should be up to the player to choose, and all 4 methods should provide the same ratio or effort to gear, and ultimately each path should result in equal level gear.

 

There also needs to be gear separation between PVE gear and PVP - such that nobody would consider doing PVE in PVP gear, it should be ineffective, and using PVE gear to PVP should also be ineffective. My specific suggestion here is to remove all primary stats from PVP gear and replace that with Expertise only. Expertise should ONLY increase damage against players. Similarly, primary PVE stats should ONLY increase damage against enemy NPCs.

 

Quest Rewards, Defeating bosses, and Crafting should be the source for PVE gear, and PVP and Crafting would give PVP rewards (Though perhaps some quests could be made to reward PVP gear provided those quests have PVP based objectives.

 

On to the specifics of how gear rewards should be obtained through each method (and this is where I'll get into the crafting bit).

 

1) Quest Rewards: This isn't really about quests you do while leveling, it's about adding in very long quest chains that should have 20+ difficult and time-extended "stages" and take about a week to complete. Time-gating would be ideal, so that it takes a couple hours about 3 nights per week - to be on par with gear obtained through PVE Raiding. You should be limited to 1 or 2 of these quests per week per character, and give the same level rewards as Raiding would give.

 

2) Defeating Difficult Bosses: Standard raid practice here, no real changes.

 

3) Crafting: Here we need to separate into 2 tiers - Standard and Artisan.

 

a) Standard: This should be easy to level in sync with your character level, to provide gear slightly above normal quest rewards for you and your companions. Easy enough to level that you don't end up only able to make gear that is no longer useful to you, and at max level should be able to make starter sets for raiding or pvp. Should also provide a small to medium level perk to either PVE or PVP Power.

 

b) Artisan: This level should require a lot of time and effort, mostly reserved for max level, as an alternate way to obtain the highest level of raiding gear. (Again, it's about choosing where and how you spend your time on the gear treadmill). Material costs should be high to promote gathering professions which contribute to the economy, and to be prohibitive in that it only allows you to make a few pieces of raid-level gear per week. You have the choice of keeping them for yourself, or selling them to players who have chosen different gear paths.

 

4) PVP: Mostly how it is now, gated progression on gear levels for gear that increases in power the same way raiding gear does, but is only useful for PVP.

 

To promote the economy, there needs to be inter-dependence on these gearing methods, and each should have a credit cost (to avoid inflation), and a method for earning credits (So you can balance that credit cost). For example: Raid/Ops have repair and consumable costs, but offer BOE crafting materials to sell to Artisan crafters. Artisan crafters have the credit cost of buying BOE materials from raiders and characters who are doing epic quests (Perhaps these epic quest areas should be rich in gathering resources), but can make money by selling gear to non-crafters. Epic questers might have a credit sink of the cost to embark on an epic quest chain, consumbles to make it faster/more successful, and perhaps have an additional quest reward that is desired by crafters and raiders (such as a key that opens access to an optional boss)

 

PVP could be worked into this system as well, provided a credit sink is added.

 

So in the end, I'd like to see a system that allows people to progress in a way that is meaningful and enjoyable to them that is inter-dependent on each other so as to create a sustainable player driven economy.

 

Two more general thoughts:

 

Credit gains are too high and luxury items are far too cheap. Luxury being tier 2 and 3 speeder training and mount cost, permanent consumables, companion customizations, and Social/Dark/Light specialty gear. Not much to be done at this point, but something that should be adjusted when the level cap is raised.

 

Quick travel to planets and the fleet should be provided using planetary commendations (and fleet commendations) as the currency cost. Instanced heroic quests on each planet should scale with player level and be an additional source of commendations.

[TheNevet]

Ilum daily quest points will get you the mods you are looking for.

 

Yeah, these are good for you, but you need to be able to make them for your companions, who don't always have the same primary stat as you. The quest rewards are geared toward you being the recipient, having your primary stat on them.

 

Cybertech needs to be able to craft all the different kinds of mods.

 

/thread